I've resolved that I will learn to sing an irish song properly before I die. The other day, I recorded myself singing a song to the backdrop of the melody in skeletal form on the piano. I thought I hit all the notes but my wife told me I was very frequently "a little flat." Then I started to worry that I'm somehow tone deaf! Given that I am a melody player, I have some confidence that I should be able to sing notes in key.
Is there any relatively inexpensive tool (eg software) for singers that allows one to see DEFINITIVELY if one is singing in the proper pitch?
Well, you're note tone deaf. If you were, you would have been more than a little flat!
If you were consistently a little flat, there's a chance that you're using too much air (all that sing from stomach nonsense gets to people eventually) and when you use too much air, your vocal chords will strain, stretch and sound a little lower than you intended them to.
What is probably needed is less air pressure, proper placement and some decent use of your laryngeal cartilages (you need to tilt your thryoid cartilage as you go up in your voice, for example).
Put these things right and you'll sound just fine, I'd wager - mind you I've not heard you so I can't judge properly, but I'd wager that a couple of lessons with a good, physiological based teacher who can put right your voice in anatomical terms will have you singing like a big old irish lark in no time.
Software will not tell you if you are singing the right pitch and even if it did, it would not be able to tell you if you were hurting yourself by doing it or even if the sound was pleasant to listen to (many guys shout in their high notes because they have trouble accepting that their voices will sound weaker to them - but not to the audience - in the high range. Thus notes that are perfectly on pitch sound rotten to listen to...)
If you can post a recording - or PM me if you prefer to send one privately, I'm happy to give you a wee consultation to help you put things right.
Marco:
I'd definitely take Allan up on his offer. If you can find a local teacher, they can also help with things like pronunciation. And they'll no doubt give you some warm-up exercises to do (scales and other things sung in various vowels and things like that - maybe even give you a CD or MIDI/ABC file to sing along with) which don't take that long to run through and can really help. At least you'll learn what your range is and how to maintain control in different registers. Singing in a choir helps, too. I grew up singing in the choirs at school, so some of this is second nature to me; unfortunately I developed some bad habits early on, so never got much beyond being a somewhat mediocre Baritone and bellower of the occasional Rock tune). I'm lucky now in that locally there a few organizations that have "Open Sings" a few times a year; generally difficult classical pieces in foreign (to me, anyway) languages, with world-class guest conductors. Typically, we'll do exercises for a bit, then work on some of the trickier parts, then run through the entire piece. You'll also get to hear some bad singers; at a run through of the "Messiah" a few years ago, there was this Tenor, obviously "Classically Trained" and proud of it, who sang WAY too loud and had about a half-step Vibrato. So all of the eighth-note runs started to sound a bit like "Flight of the Bumblebee".
If you're really worried about your pitch in general, I'd also try something like this (use your piano or guitar, and pick a spot in your range that's comfortable, and the vowel of your choice): Play an interval (say an octave) and try to sing deliberately "out of tune", say, the flatted (Minor) Seventh (you can cheat and hit the flatted seventh on the piano for reference). Then raise your pitch slowly until you're at the Major Seventh, then raise it slowly until you get to the octave. That way you'll begin to hear when you're "on", and when you're not quite there.
Whether or not you like him, Robert Plant made an Art Form out of this sort of thing. Personally, I'd like to learn to sing in quarter tones.
Somebody feel free to tell me if I'm full of Sh*te.
Don't forget, "Wet", or "Loose" (I like to call it "Session") tuning can also have its place as well.
You're in for a heckuva ride, anyway. best of luck and have fun!
Plug one ear with a finger so you can hear your own voice better. And like said above, the proper breath support is essential. Also, sing along with others, and focus on blending your voice with theirs. And avoid vocal tricks when you are learning--leave slides, vibrato, twiddly bits, to more experienced singers, they just draw you off pitch.
It is not unusual for a good instrumentalist to have trouble singing, there are different skills involved. Myself, my wife and son talked me into joining our church choir, and after 10 years, I wasn't so bad as a group singer. The quality of my voice is rather thin, though, so I almost never sing on my own, even though I enjoy it.
My Grandfather sang, my Mother sang, I didn't have stand a chance.
However, singing along to recordings and blending my voice with theirs was a huge help. It's basically the same as singing with others.
Just a brand new instrument you're trying to play, basically. As the point was made, just because you can play a melody instrument, doesn't mean you can sing. I play the fiddle, but I can't play the box. I play the voice box, but I can't play the pipes. Etc. etc.
For Singers
For Singers
I've resolved that I will learn to sing an irish song properly before I die. The other day, I recorded myself singing a song to the backdrop of the melody in skeletal form on the piano. I thought I hit all the notes but my wife told me I was very frequently "a little flat." Then I started to worry that I'm somehow tone deaf! Given that I am a melody player, I have some confidence that I should be able to sing notes in key.
Is there any relatively inexpensive tool (eg software) for singers that allows one to see DEFINITIVELY if one is singing in the proper pitch?
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by MarcoTam
Re: For Singers
Well, you're note tone deaf. If you were, you would have been more than a little flat!
If you were consistently a little flat, there's a chance that you're using too much air (all that sing from stomach nonsense gets to people eventually) and when you use too much air, your vocal chords will strain, stretch and sound a little lower than you intended them to.
What is probably needed is less air pressure, proper placement and some decent use of your laryngeal cartilages (you need to tilt your thryoid cartilage as you go up in your voice, for example).
Put these things right and you'll sound just fine, I'd wager - mind you I've not heard you so I can't judge properly, but I'd wager that a couple of lessons with a good, physiological based teacher who can put right your voice in anatomical terms will have you singing like a big old irish lark in no time.
Software will not tell you if you are singing the right pitch and even if it did, it would not be able to tell you if you were hurting yourself by doing it or even if the sound was pleasant to listen to (many guys shout in their high notes because they have trouble accepting that their voices will sound weaker to them - but not to the audience - in the high range. Thus notes that are perfectly on pitch sound rotten to listen to...)
If you can post a recording - or PM me if you prefer to send one privately, I'm happy to give you a wee consultation to help you put things right.
Allan
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by rosfrog
Re: For Singers
"Given that I am a melody player, I have some confidence that I should be able to sing notes in key. "
The best accordion player I've ever met and one of the best fiddle players I've ever met are the two worst singers I've ever met.
The voice is an instrument like any other, it takes practice.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by CleverName
Re: For Singers
How do you get to Carnegie Hall/the Albert Hall/Sydney Opera House, etc ?
Practice, kid, practice.
PLUS.....your nearest and dearest aren't always the best critics, either because they're too honest, or too flattering.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: For Singers
Marco:
I'd definitely take Allan up on his offer. If you can find a local teacher, they can also help with things like pronunciation. And they'll no doubt give you some warm-up exercises to do (scales and other things sung in various vowels and things like that - maybe even give you a CD or MIDI/ABC file to sing along with) which don't take that long to run through and can really help. At least you'll learn what your range is and how to maintain control in different registers. Singing in a choir helps, too. I grew up singing in the choirs at school, so some of this is second nature to me; unfortunately I developed some bad habits early on, so never got much beyond being a somewhat mediocre Baritone and bellower of the occasional Rock tune). I'm lucky now in that locally there a few organizations that have "Open Sings" a few times a year; generally difficult classical pieces in foreign (to me, anyway) languages, with world-class guest conductors. Typically, we'll do exercises for a bit, then work on some of the trickier parts, then run through the entire piece. You'll also get to hear some bad singers; at a run through of the "Messiah" a few years ago, there was this Tenor, obviously "Classically Trained" and proud of it, who sang WAY too loud and had about a half-step Vibrato. So all of the eighth-note runs started to sound a bit like "Flight of the Bumblebee".
If you're really worried about your pitch in general, I'd also try something like this (use your piano or guitar, and pick a spot in your range that's comfortable, and the vowel of your choice): Play an interval (say an octave) and try to sing deliberately "out of tune", say, the flatted (Minor) Seventh (you can cheat and hit the flatted seventh on the piano for reference). Then raise your pitch slowly until you're at the Major Seventh, then raise it slowly until you get to the octave. That way you'll begin to hear when you're "on", and when you're not quite there.
Whether or not you like him, Robert Plant made an Art Form out of this sort of thing. Personally, I'd like to learn to sing in quarter tones.
Somebody feel free to tell me if I'm full of Sh*te.
Don't forget, "Wet", or "Loose" (I like to call it "Session") tuning can also have its place as well.
You're in for a heckuva ride, anyway. best of luck and have fun!
Tom
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by tomw
Re: For Singers
Plug one ear with a finger so you can hear your own voice better. And like said above, the proper breath support is essential. Also, sing along with others, and focus on blending your voice with theirs. And avoid vocal tricks when you are learning--leave slides, vibrato, twiddly bits, to more experienced singers, they just draw you off pitch.
It is not unusual for a good instrumentalist to have trouble singing, there are different skills involved. Myself, my wife and son talked me into joining our church choir, and after 10 years, I wasn't so bad as a group singer. The quality of my voice is rather thin, though, so I almost never sing on my own, even though I enjoy it.
# Posted on November 20th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: For Singers
Hey Marco, plenty of good advice here already.
My Grandfather sang, my Mother sang, I didn't have stand a chance.
However, singing along to recordings and blending my voice with theirs was a huge help. It's basically the same as singing with others.
Just a brand new instrument you're trying to play, basically. As the point was made, just because you can play a melody instrument, doesn't mean you can sing. I play the fiddle, but I can't play the box. I play the voice box, but I can't play the pipes. Etc. etc.
# Posted on November 20th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: For Singers
Thanks to all for some great advice.
Marco
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by MarcoTam