There was a thread the other day that touched on music as a kind of convesation and the aspect of listening came up as well. Then I happened to find this in a column by Ciaran Carson on Ceili Bands on the JMI.
Is he right? Would sessions themselves benefit a bit more from treating the music more like a conversation as opposed to the [sometimes] head down, isolationist fury that sometimes seems to prevail?
Carson writes:
Ongoing Conversation
We knew a great many of the tunes played by the Spells musicians because we’d spent some time, from the 1970s onwards, playing around in the Sligo-Leitrim-Roscommon area, .... We happened to hit the tunes with the same pace and rhythm as the Spells musicians: we seemed to get the gist of their musical conversation, and they ours. Listening out for each other, we shaped our playing to that of the others. We spoke the same kind of musical language, and we talked about the tunes in the same way, when there was a break for verbal conversation. And it seemed to us that a good ceili band is the result of an ongoing conversation that pays heed to similar conversations shaped over many years. It’s a team effort: the personnel might change over the years, but the band remains the same, because it recognises the same rules. "
Good point. Sometimes, you have to concentrate, especially when the barmaid is wearing 'that' blouse again. It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and pretend like you're doing the "I'm a VERY serious musician grooving in the tune-o-sphere" thing.
You know me, lovin' this conversation analogy, great stuff!
HA HA! In particular, my good Rev, when you discuss the whole 'closed eyes' issue while playing, it's usually accompanied not by a bodhran player with bad rhythm, but by your need to close your eyes to avoid certain stimulating visuals...
The good sessions *are* musical conversations, heads down and eyes closed or not. Carson put it well. Wish more people would session with this in mind.
I am constantly swivelling my eyes in sessions to work out who is going to start playing when, and align myself with the player whose playing seems best equipped to dominate the tune and dictate the tempo within, well, the moderately distant future - unless I've started the tune without messing it up completely, in which case I either hang back and wait for one or more others or else jump several bars to join in with someone who's started behind and then zoomed ahead. Yes. it can be like this!
I look around for clues because I'm a visual type. An aural type with the developed faculties of a bat could no doubt suss what to do from the sounds alone.
Another aspect of this question is the chat/conversation part of the session. Finding the right balance for everyone isn't always easy. Too much chat interferes with decent tune time and too little means there is no room to breath between sets. At least some time to talk about the tunes might be appropriate especially if the tunes are relatively new to most people.
I remember a session once where a newcomer who had'nt learned the etiquette was flying into a new set before the other one had barely ended. I could see some of the regulars were not happy with this, and one by one they left the session to stand at the bar. They were too polite to say anything. Eventually most of the muso's were drinking at the bar winking and nodding at "Mogunnya" and telling him how great he was. I never found out if he understood.
The bit I hate is the pregnant pause at the end of a set when evryone just sits there not quite knowing what to say.
I usually try to break the ice with, "Well I'm off to the bar/ bog/ outside for a fag/ zut/ cough" or such like.
Some just sit there silently and looking startled waiting for the next set to start (I suppose they may be plucking up courage to start one themselves).
Of course some find comments such as, "Phew! That phukken rawked maan!" a bit non-U as some believe you should sit and play in a Zen-like state of detatchment whilst reminding themselves that, of course, a session isn't a performance (but lets not go there again so soon!).
"The good sessions *are* musical conversations, heads down and eyes closed or not. Carson put it well. Wish more people would session with this in mind." -- Will CPT
I'll toast to that. I treat every musical encounter as a conversation, be it a session, a gig, rehearsal, recording, an audition...whatever. I think most true musicians think this way, as well. It only works if other people know how to converse, though. I've been to a few sessions which were advertised as big and friendly and open, and my initial impression was similar to the initial impression I got from my first big college party. I was overwhelmed by the amount of "shouting" going on and the overall chaotic feel. Everyone had "their" tunes and was trotting them out at all different tempos and articulations: I couldn't hear myself think, much less my own fiddle. Sure, everyone was playing the tune, but, for myself, I can't say I was making music, more than I was contributing to the din.
Excellent analogy--listening and conversation, I will definitely remember that one, and attempt to heed it when I play. The best music is when I get beyond the mechanics of the playing and join in with the chat!!!!
Listening & Conversation in sessions
Listening & Conversation in sessions
There was a thread the other day that touched on music as a kind of convesation and the aspect of listening came up as well. Then I happened to find this in a column by Ciaran Carson on Ceili Bands on the JMI.
Is he right? Would sessions themselves benefit a bit more from treating the music more like a conversation as opposed to the [sometimes] head down, isolationist fury that sometimes seems to prevail?
Carson writes:
Ongoing Conversation
We knew a great many of the tunes played by the Spells musicians because we’d spent some time, from the 1970s onwards, playing around in the Sligo-Leitrim-Roscommon area, .... We happened to hit the tunes with the same pace and rhythm as the Spells musicians: we seemed to get the gist of their musical conversation, and they ours. Listening out for each other, we shaped our playing to that of the others. We spoke the same kind of musical language, and we talked about the tunes in the same way, when there was a break for verbal conversation. And it seemed to us that a good ceili band is the result of an ongoing conversation that pays heed to similar conversations shaped over many years. It’s a team effort: the personnel might change over the years, but the band remains the same, because it recognises the same rules. "
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
I don't think "head down" always equates to "isolationist fury", but certainly you have to listen to what other people are playing, and blend.
If you're playing with people that you don't play with regularly, more thought has to go in to it.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Good point. Sometimes, you have to concentrate, especially when the barmaid is wearing 'that' blouse again. It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and pretend like you're doing the "I'm a VERY serious musician grooving in the tune-o-sphere" thing.
You know me, lovin' this conversation analogy, great stuff!
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Damn SWFL...you always have to lower the conversation and make it sooooo base. You guys...I dunno.
ps. Keep it up.
pps.Oh, by the way, she's my sister...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Just picking up the slack mi amigo.
Usually Reverend Pete makes the barmaid in blouse joke!
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
moi?
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
HA HA! In particular, my good Rev, when you discuss the whole 'closed eyes' issue while playing, it's usually accompanied not by a bodhran player with bad rhythm, but by your need to close your eyes to avoid certain stimulating visuals...
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
The good sessions *are* musical conversations, heads down and eyes closed or not. Carson put it well. Wish more people would session with this in mind.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
I am constantly swivelling my eyes in sessions to work out who is going to start playing when, and align myself with the player whose playing seems best equipped to dominate the tune and dictate the tempo within, well, the moderately distant future - unless I've started the tune without messing it up completely, in which case I either hang back and wait for one or more others or else jump several bars to join in with someone who's started behind and then zoomed ahead. Yes. it can be like this!
I look around for clues because I'm a visual type. An aural type with the developed faculties of a bat could no doubt suss what to do from the sounds alone.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Another aspect of this question is the chat/conversation part of the session. Finding the right balance for everyone isn't always easy. Too much chat interferes with decent tune time and too little means there is no room to breath between sets. At least some time to talk about the tunes might be appropriate especially if the tunes are relatively new to most people.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by Donough
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
The more sh*t the music is, the more the urge to close the eyes.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
I remember a session once where a newcomer who had'nt learned the etiquette was flying into a new set before the other one had barely ended. I could see some of the regulars were not happy with this, and one by one they left the session to stand at the bar. They were too polite to say anything. Eventually most of the muso's were drinking at the bar winking and nodding at "Mogunnya" and telling him how great he was. I never found out if he understood.
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by diarmuid k
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
The bit I hate is the pregnant pause at the end of a set when evryone just sits there not quite knowing what to say.
I usually try to break the ice with, "Well I'm off to the bar/ bog/ outside for a fag/ zut/ cough" or such like.
Some just sit there silently and looking startled waiting for the next set to start (I suppose they may be plucking up courage to start one themselves).
Of course some find comments such as, "Phew! That phukken rawked maan!" a bit non-U as some believe you should sit and play in a Zen-like state of detatchment whilst reminding themselves that, of course, a session isn't a performance (but lets not go there again so soon!).
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Wot's a zut, Krick ?
PS Spellcheck underlined three of the four words there......
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
"The good sessions *are* musical conversations, heads down and eyes closed or not. Carson put it well. Wish more people would session with this in mind." -- Will CPT
I'll toast to that. I treat every musical encounter as a conversation, be it a session, a gig, rehearsal, recording, an audition...whatever. I think most true musicians think this way, as well. It only works if other people know how to converse, though. I've been to a few sessions which were advertised as big and friendly and open, and my initial impression was similar to the initial impression I got from my first big college party. I was overwhelmed by the amount of "shouting" going on and the overall chaotic feel. Everyone had "their" tunes and was trotting them out at all different tempos and articulations: I couldn't hear myself think, much less my own fiddle. Sure, everyone was playing the tune, but, for myself, I can't say I was making music, more than I was contributing to the din.
# Posted on November 20th 2008 by meredithrachael
Re: Listening & Conversation in sessions
Excellent analogy--listening and conversation, I will definitely remember that one, and attempt to heed it when I play. The best music is when I get beyond the mechanics of the playing and join in with the chat!!!!
# Posted on November 20th 2008 by AlBrown