i'm just starting sessions now (too much of a wimp to start in previous years), so I decided to begin with learning all the popular tune you hear most, so here i am with my sally gardens, kesh jigs, cooley's reel, rights of man (etc), and none of them get played. Am i not looking at the right ''popular'' tunes? Any ideas on tunes to learn? At the moment i'm picking the ones i like the names of, for example ''larry get out of the bin'' and such. Your thoughts and tips will be much appreciated
Danielle,
Always a difficult question re "the canon" of tunes. There is no magic answer or bullet. Really, either you need to find [maybe] a slower session where some of these tunes you mention are played a lot [often in sessions designed to ease people into the music...ie, slower or beginner sessions], or, a better way might be to attend a session you like for whatever reasons you like it, and learn the tunes most played at that particular one. Which is where a tape recorder comes in handy. I can't think of any other solution really. Everyone I know faced the same problem but eventually you learn what tunes get played where [and why] and you just naturally gravitate to a session that suits your talent level at the time. Certain tunes get played a lot at certain sessions [the "chestnuts"], but to trot those same tunes out at really high powered sessions led by very accomplished players won't go over so well. So it's a matter of taste and timing and a bunch of other unponderables....
Danielle, try to learn sets. When you know a tune ask the players what were the other tunes they played in that set. They won't always be played in the same set but very often they are. Even by adding one tune a week to what you already know you would be in a better position in a few months. Maybe start by learning the last tune of a set so that once you're in you don't have to drop out.
The nice thing about the "popular tunes" is that everybody knows them. And while some players may roll their eyes at the idea of playing them, most people will be happy to encourage beginners, and play those tunes with you. And many sessions will be polite enough to see you sitting there with an instrument and ask you if you'd like to play something. (as mtodd mentioned, it depends on how open the session is to beginners).
When you're a beginner, it might not be a bad thing to tell the people that you're just starting out. Suggest a couple tunes, and ask if they can start them. That can help take the pressure off of you a bit.
Congratulations for making the decision to get out. The only way to learn to play with other people is by doing it.
You might also approach one of the more advanced players for some lessons. Then you will learn tunes and technique, learn what the popular tunes are at that session, and maybe have someone leading things off with tunes in mind that they know you can play.
As bogman says, if you lead off at a session, a set of two or maybe three tunes is expected.
For example, if you already know "The Rights of Man" you could combine it with "King of the the Fairies", which is equally well known. These two tunes sit well together in a set. If you are inexperienced, as you say, it would be best to practice playing the two together first at home. In can be embarrassing when you get to the end of the 2nd/3rd repetition of the first tune and forget how to exectute the change smoothly.
Yes, there will always be what I would term "tune snobs" who will put their instruments down in disgust when well-known tunes are played. Equally though, there will be people who will be happy to encourage you by joining in - as long as you can play the sets at what would generally be considered as a normal speed.
You may be a "Danielle", but most sessions aren't lions' dens!
In the past year or so didn't Will and others develop common tune lists? and I seem to remember some suggestions re common tune sets etc....maybe some links to those would help Danielle.
It also depends on where you are playing. In Belfast you will hear different sets of tunes than in Dublin. Recently in Galway I hardly knew or heard of tmost of he tunes being played. However there are the 'old faithfuls' which pop up everywhere - Spike Island Lasses, The Gold Ring, Jacksons, The Congress Reel (named afer rhe 1926 Papal congress held in Phoenix Park would you know!)
You have to pull it off but . . .
Just make up a set & lead off. It doesn't work every time & you learn from your mistakes. Just a matter of showing your cards. Some players appreciate that.
Danielle, there's 116 tunes over on the Comhaltas site at http://comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn_seisiun_cd_volume_1/ that are ALL session standards. You can listen to them on the site and most of the notation for the tunes can be found here on the Yellowboard. Alternatively if you want to get the books and CDs (these are the Foinn Seisiún series) , they can be ordered from Monkstown using the contact details shown on the Comhaltas website. And if you feel really ambitious, you can go for all three books and accompanying double CDs which will equip you with 323 tunes which is a respectable repertoire for any musician!
Let's not forget Brid Cranitch and Sheila Garry's excellent series of books called *Irish Session tunes in Sets*....I prefer them over the Comhaltas cds. The playing is lovely and the books themselves are really well put together [each page has 2-3 tunes as a "set"]. No offense to Bannerman, but I really found the Comhaltas tune cds not so great in the audio department.
On Garry's playing [which I can't say enough about] you can really hear her bow work. The sets they recommend, like the Comhaltas ones, are quite good in that they are commonly played sets. But there are a few settings of tunes in "non-standard" session keys in the cranitch/garry books. Not many but a few and it's best to check with other sources that the keys are the "commonly accepted" ones.
Ps. But Bannerman is right on in that the Comhaltas cds represent a really solid selection of commonly played tunes commonly played together. So it's a great ref tool and certainly you couldn't go wrong having any of the tunes in your repertoire.
It strikes me as quite simple, Danielle: individual and session repertoires are often generational - though of course there is overlap. This is so in England anyway, where young (and thus keen) players have more likely learned their early tunes from records or books than from parents etc. who've had them traditionally.
Significant bands whose albums popularised certain tunes at the time of their biggest impact include:
The Dubliners, late 60s (and of course, they're still going);
Planxty, The Bothy Band ( 1970s);
De Danann / De Dannan ( 70s-80s);
Altan (end 80s and still going);
Flook! (90s and still going)
- And so on.
People who started playing in the late 70s naturally cut their teeth on The Kesh Jig, played to effect by The Bothy Band. But these people (myself included) are now deep into middle age, and it's a long time indeed since The Kesh was or represented the cutting-edge flavour of the month. It's a good tune but there are thousands of good tunes, and someone could become a perfectly good and knowledgeable player without ever having heard of it. BUT - such a player could learn it very quickly and easily, and put it away in his brain for possible future use.
I'd say, the best thing is to pick a few particular jigs / reels / whatever to practise on consistently, and that way you will acquire (hopefully) the technique to play other tunes that actually turn up in the sessions you go to. In some sessions, there's an ageing majority cranking out Bothy Band or indeed 1950s London tunes; in others, it's a young crowd playing quite a bit of Flook / McGoldrick / Sharon Shannon tunes - and so on.
I only hope you are not compelled to decide between a session with music you like but people who get up your nose, and one with people you like but music that gets up your nose...but again I'd say, keep the generational factor in mind...find out where particular tunes and their afficionadoes belong, in the archaeological layers of postwar Irish music in the UK..!
Will's lists ~ contributed to by the masses...
& to use this site's accumulated tune book list click on 'Frequently Asked Questions' at the bottom of the menu to the right of here, then go to the top and click on 'Tunebook'... But, you've had good suggestions already here. 'Communicate' with whatever session you find yourself in, as even with old standards a particular session, depending on the guiding lights, may have their own way with it, so ask. Also, it is a basic courtesy to ask if you can record, which isn't usually a problem if done discreetly rather than in someone's face. But even there, if you ask as things are wrapping up, so you can get a clearer recording for learning from, some won't mind giving you that and giving is slowed down...
Your bravery is commendable. Just remember, like finding the right teacher, it may take a few sessions, if you have that option, to find the one that best fits you... Good luck...
I support Bannermans in buying the comhaltas cd`s, over 300 tunes at a nice session pace on 3 cd`s, I live abroad and this is my learning sessions, and I enjoy it still.
Thank you very much for all your replies. i'm currently looking though endless tunes as we speak, lets hope a few of them will sink in
I'm from buckinghamshire, so very limited irish sessions and i'm not all that keen on joing the english ones... (classical isnt really my forte) I go to the session in the hershall arms in slough, i have to say they're very welcoming and are a mixture of beginners and advanced. However there are different people each week so different tunes get played, ...peobably the most asked question in trad i'd say... apologies for which!!!!
I guess i'd better get to learning those tunes. Thank you for the links ... :D
These are the tunes that members of The Session have added to their tunebooks, listed in order of popularity. [ 18 Nov. 2008 ]
Drowsy Maggie
The Kesh
The Butterfly
Cooley's
Morrison's
The Silver Spear
The Banshee
The Maid Behind The Bar
Banish Misfortune
The Wind That Shakes The Barley
The Connaughtman's Rambles
The Glasgow
The Rights Of Man
The Gravel Walks
The Mason's Apron
The Musical Priest
The Kid On The Mountain
Out On The Ocean
The Harvest Home
The Blarney Pilgrim
Dinkey's
Tobin's Favourite
The Hag At The Churn
The Silver Spire
Tommy Peoples'
The Drops Of Brandy
Sliabh Russell
Lafferty's
The Rakes Of Kildare
Old Hag, You Have Killed Me
The Battering Ram
The Humours Of Tulla
Dr. Gilbert's
The Strayaway Child
Frank's
The Golen Keyboard
Chief O'Neill's Favourite
The Old Bush
Gallagher's Frolics
Brian Boru's March
Beginner at a session....
Beginner at a session....
i'm just starting sessions now (too much of a wimp to start in previous years), so I decided to begin with learning all the popular tune you hear most, so here i am with my sally gardens, kesh jigs, cooley's reel, rights of man (etc), and none of them get played. Am i not looking at the right ''popular'' tunes? Any ideas on tunes to learn? At the moment i'm picking the ones i like the names of, for example ''larry get out of the bin'' and such. Your thoughts and tips will be much appreciated
Danielle
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by She moved through the fair
Re: Beginner at a session....
Danielle,
Always a difficult question re "the canon" of tunes. There is no magic answer or bullet. Really, either you need to find [maybe] a slower session where some of these tunes you mention are played a lot [often in sessions designed to ease people into the music...ie, slower or beginner sessions], or, a better way might be to attend a session you like for whatever reasons you like it, and learn the tunes most played at that particular one. Which is where a tape recorder comes in handy. I can't think of any other solution really. Everyone I know faced the same problem but eventually you learn what tunes get played where [and why] and you just naturally gravitate to a session that suits your talent level at the time. Certain tunes get played a lot at certain sessions [the "chestnuts"], but to trot those same tunes out at really high powered sessions led by very accomplished players won't go over so well. So it's a matter of taste and timing and a bunch of other unponderables....
How open is this session to beginners?
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Beginner at a session....
Danielle, try to learn sets. When you know a tune ask the players what were the other tunes they played in that set. They won't always be played in the same set but very often they are. Even by adding one tune a week to what you already know you would be in a better position in a few months. Maybe start by learning the last tune of a set so that once you're in you don't have to drop out.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by bogman
Re: Beginner at a session....
The nice thing about the "popular tunes" is that everybody knows them. And while some players may roll their eyes at the idea of playing them, most people will be happy to encourage beginners, and play those tunes with you. And many sessions will be polite enough to see you sitting there with an instrument and ask you if you'd like to play something. (as mtodd mentioned, it depends on how open the session is to beginners).
When you're a beginner, it might not be a bad thing to tell the people that you're just starting out. Suggest a couple tunes, and ask if they can start them. That can help take the pressure off of you a bit.
Congratulations for making the decision to get out. The only way to learn to play with other people is by doing it.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Beginner at a session....
You might also approach one of the more advanced players for some lessons. Then you will learn tunes and technique, learn what the popular tunes are at that session, and maybe have someone leading things off with tunes in mind that they know you can play.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by jasonb
Re: Beginner at a session....
Danielle
As bogman says, if you lead off at a session, a set of two or maybe three tunes is expected.
For example, if you already know "The Rights of Man" you could combine it with "King of the the Fairies", which is equally well known. These two tunes sit well together in a set. If you are inexperienced, as you say, it would be best to practice playing the two together first at home. In can be embarrassing when you get to the end of the 2nd/3rd repetition of the first tune and forget how to exectute the change smoothly.
Yes, there will always be what I would term "tune snobs" who will put their instruments down in disgust when well-known tunes are played. Equally though, there will be people who will be happy to encourage you by joining in - as long as you can play the sets at what would generally be considered as a normal speed.
You may be a "Danielle", but most sessions aren't lions' dens!
So - go for it - and good luck!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Beginner at a session....
In the past year or so didn't Will and others develop common tune lists? and I seem to remember some suggestions re common tune sets etc....maybe some links to those would help Danielle.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Beginner at a session....
Here's the link:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13056/comments#comment268308
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Lurcherjohn
Re: Beginner at a session....
And Will's list:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/110/
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Lurcherjohn
Re: Beginner at a session....
It also depends on where you are playing. In Belfast you will hear different sets of tunes than in Dublin. Recently in Galway I hardly knew or heard of tmost of he tunes being played. However there are the 'old faithfuls' which pop up everywhere - Spike Island Lasses, The Gold Ring, Jacksons, The Congress Reel (named afer rhe 1926 Papal congress held in Phoenix Park would you know!)
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by iwerzon
Re: Beginner at a session....
You have to pull it off but . . .
Just make up a set & lead off. It doesn't work every time & you learn from your mistakes. Just a matter of showing your cards. Some players appreciate that.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Beginner at a session....
Hey Danielle - forgot to mention - if you happen to be in Bristol at weekends, there is a regular Friday evening session at the "Lion", Clifton!
All quite friendly, and no man-eaters (or woman-eaters, for that matter)!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Beginner at a session....
Danielle, there's 116 tunes over on the Comhaltas site at http://comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn_seisiun_cd_volume_1/ that are ALL session standards. You can listen to them on the site and most of the notation for the tunes can be found here on the Yellowboard. Alternatively if you want to get the books and CDs (these are the Foinn Seisiún series) , they can be ordered from Monkstown using the contact details shown on the Comhaltas website. And if you feel really ambitious, you can go for all three books and accompanying double CDs which will equip you with 323 tunes which is a respectable repertoire for any musician!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Beginner at a session....
Let's not forget Brid Cranitch and Sheila Garry's excellent series of books called *Irish Session tunes in Sets*....I prefer them over the Comhaltas cds. The playing is lovely and the books themselves are really well put together [each page has 2-3 tunes as a "set"]. No offense to Bannerman, but I really found the Comhaltas tune cds not so great in the audio department.
On Garry's playing [which I can't say enough about] you can really hear her bow work. The sets they recommend, like the Comhaltas ones, are quite good in that they are commonly played sets. But there are a few settings of tunes in "non-standard" session keys in the cranitch/garry books. Not many but a few and it's best to check with other sources that the keys are the "commonly accepted" ones.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Beginner at a session....
Ps. But Bannerman is right on in that the Comhaltas cds represent a really solid selection of commonly played tunes commonly played together. So it's a great ref tool and certainly you couldn't go wrong having any of the tunes in your repertoire.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Beginner at a session....
It strikes me as quite simple, Danielle: individual and session repertoires are often generational - though of course there is overlap. This is so in England anyway, where young (and thus keen) players have more likely learned their early tunes from records or books than from parents etc. who've had them traditionally.
Significant bands whose albums popularised certain tunes at the time of their biggest impact include:
The Dubliners, late 60s (and of course, they're still going);
Planxty, The Bothy Band ( 1970s);
De Danann / De Dannan ( 70s-80s);
Altan (end 80s and still going);
Flook! (90s and still going)
- And so on.
People who started playing in the late 70s naturally cut their teeth on The Kesh Jig, played to effect by The Bothy Band. But these people (myself included) are now deep into middle age, and it's a long time indeed since The Kesh was or represented the cutting-edge flavour of the month. It's a good tune but there are thousands of good tunes, and someone could become a perfectly good and knowledgeable player without ever having heard of it. BUT - such a player could learn it very quickly and easily, and put it away in his brain for possible future use.
I'd say, the best thing is to pick a few particular jigs / reels / whatever to practise on consistently, and that way you will acquire (hopefully) the technique to play other tunes that actually turn up in the sessions you go to. In some sessions, there's an ageing majority cranking out Bothy Band or indeed 1950s London tunes; in others, it's a young crowd playing quite a bit of Flook / McGoldrick / Sharon Shannon tunes - and so on.
I only hope you are not compelled to decide between a session with music you like but people who get up your nose, and one with people you like but music that gets up your nose...but again I'd say, keep the generational factor in mind...find out where particular tunes and their afficionadoes belong, in the archaeological layers of postwar Irish music in the UK..!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Beginner at a session....
Will's lists ~ contributed to by the masses...
& to use this site's accumulated tune book list click on 'Frequently Asked Questions' at the bottom of the menu to the right of here, then go to the top and click on 'Tunebook'... But, you've had good suggestions already here. 'Communicate' with whatever session you find yourself in, as even with old standards a particular session, depending on the guiding lights, may have their own way with it, so ask. Also, it is a basic courtesy to ask if you can record, which isn't usually a problem if done discreetly rather than in someone's face. But even there, if you ask as things are wrapping up, so you can get a clearer recording for learning from, some won't mind giving you that and giving is slowed down...
Your bravery is commendable. Just remember, like finding the right teacher, it may take a few sessions, if you have that option, to find the one that best fits you... Good luck...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Will's lists ~ contributed to by the masses...
http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Beginner at a session....
Hi Danielle
I support Bannermans in buying the comhaltas cd`s, over 300 tunes at a nice session pace on 3 cd`s, I live abroad and this is my learning sessions, and I enjoy it still.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Dave_
Re: Beginner at a session....
Thank you very much for all your replies. i'm currently looking though endless tunes as we speak, lets hope a few of them will sink in
I'm from buckinghamshire, so very limited irish sessions and i'm not all that keen on joing the english ones... (classical isnt really my forte) I go to the session in the hershall arms in slough, i have to say they're very welcoming and are a mixture of beginners and advanced. However there are different people each week so different tunes get played, ...peobably the most asked question in trad i'd say... apologies for which!!!!
I guess i'd better get to learning those tunes. Thank you for the links ... :D
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by She moved through the fair
Old standards
http://www.thesession.org/members/
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"Most Popular Tunes"
These are the tunes that members of The Session have added to their tunebooks, listed in order of popularity. [ 18 Nov. 2008 ]
Drowsy Maggie
The Kesh
The Butterfly
Cooley's
Morrison's
The Silver Spear
The Banshee
The Maid Behind The Bar
Banish Misfortune
The Wind That Shakes The Barley
The Connaughtman's Rambles
The Glasgow
The Rights Of Man
The Gravel Walks
The Mason's Apron
The Musical Priest
The Kid On The Mountain
Out On The Ocean
The Harvest Home
The Blarney Pilgrim
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Ben Steen
Top 120 - 140 tunes in tunebooks
Dinkey's
Tobin's Favourite
The Hag At The Churn
The Silver Spire
Tommy Peoples'
The Drops Of Brandy
Sliabh Russell
Lafferty's
The Rakes Of Kildare
Old Hag, You Have Killed Me
The Battering Ram
The Humours Of Tulla
Dr. Gilbert's
The Strayaway Child
Frank's
The Golen Keyboard
Chief O'Neill's Favourite
The Old Bush
Gallagher's Frolics
Brian Boru's March
O.K. I will stop now.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Ben Steen