Helen's post on posture got me thinking about a problem I encounter from time to time. I find if I've been practising a lot that the thumb knuckles on my bow hand can get very stiff and sore (especially the one where your thumb meets the rest of your hand). It could be my bowing technique (or lack thereof...) of course.
Anybody else have similar problems, and if so possible remedies or suggestions?
I have joint problems too, in various parts of the body. Recently, on recommendation from various friends and acquaintances I have begun to take Glucosamine and Chondroitin tablets on a regular basis, and also Cod Liver Oil capsules. This has made a tremendous difference to my sore joints, and I recommend trying it. It is worth shopping around, and reading the packet carefully before you buy, because the price per tablet and the dosage per tablet vary tremendously. One of the best prices I have found so far is from www.healthspan.co.uk (based in Guernsey).
Be warned also that the tablets do not improve my playing on mandolin or banjolin.
Make sure your thumb is always flexible, not stiff. Bending it more or less as you use different parts of the bow also helps it to stay straight, ie., at right angles to the string, and the tone will be consistent, squeakless, and more controlled.
Then don't over-play, if possible take a short rest between sets.
Remember too that you don't need to "grip" the bow--your thumb and fingers should be free of muscle tension. With the pinky on top of the stick above the screw, and the index finger draped lightly over the stick above the thumb, the thumb simply offers a fulcrum between the two. No need to squeeze. Kevin Burke likens it to holding a small bird, or a cigarette without dimpling the paper. You can't overemphasize how relaxed your bow hand should be...takes no more "grip" than sleeping....
Your thumb should be bent a bit at the joint closest to its tip--if this is straight, it will transfer force back to the knuckle and even wrist, which can cause problems. Same goes for the pinky--most of the time it should be in a relaxed, slight curve over the stick.
Yes, it's all coming out now, the pain we endure as fiddler's. I do not get pain in my thumb joint but right on the end of my thumb. Again we must be aware of muscle tensions and relax them as much as we can. I find my hand move's and changes position on the bow as I play, depending on what's happening. This is quite handy for me when my thumb begins to pulse half-way through a set of lively tunes. I am feeling much better now knowing it's not just me that has problems.
An alternative is to use a grip favoured by "bluegrass" fiddle players. Holding the thumb under the base of the frog with the fingers resting on the stick. I find this helps with 'shuffles' and it gives you the entire range of the bow to play with.
yes,i can only echo the above advice: if you're using your thumb then it's a best not to keep it straight and indeed the term 'grip' is unfortuneate.that said,i should practise what i preach.
if you find it hard to bend the thumb a bit you might try playing a few strokes with a ping-pong ball placed between the thumb/forefinger joint but only to give you the feeling - don't tense up and play for ages like that or else it will end in tears.or pain.but mainly pain i would think.
or,if you're entirely a natural you won't have to worry and in which case,feck off ,you lucky sods...
Thanks for all the suggestions folks, I do keep the thumb bent and flexible when playing alright.
One thing I do that I know I probably shouldn't is hold the bow a good bit up from the frog, not quite as far as you see some fiddlers doing (Máiréad Ní Mhaonaigh for example), I find even if I start off holding it right at the bottom, a few minutes I find I've unconsciously slid up a couple of inches. Like I say, I know I shouldn't but it seems to suit me better.
Why shouldn't you hold the bow however it suits you best? If you want to grip it up a couple of inches from the frog, by all means do so! The music police are not going to arrest you. I played the viola (classical) when I was in school -- that was decades ago! -- but now when I play the fiddle, I hold the bow a little in front of the frog. I just like the way it feels, especially when playing bowed triplets, which I do a lot. I think the example of Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh is a good one -- she's a great fiddler, so obviously her bowing style works for her. I say you should do whatever is comfortable and works for you and not worry if someone else does it differently.
My violin teacher taught us a great stretch about fifteen years back, and I have been using it before and after every practice with great result. You spread the fingers of both hands wide apart, and then slowly pull the tips of your fingers up using your muscle control, holding it as long as you can and then releasing it. This stretches out the tendons that are probably causing you all that grief, and has the added benefit of extending your reach on the strings and giving your vibrato that extra little zing.
Pampering your hands with an over the counter muscle rub like Aspercreme (obviously not fingertips that touch metal and frog) will help also.
My aunt has this same trouble from a fall a few years back, and these have done wonders for her. Hope that they help you out
Thumbs and Bowing
Thumbs and Bowing
Helen's post on posture got me thinking about a problem I encounter from time to time. I find if I've been practising a lot that the thumb knuckles on my bow hand can get very stiff and sore (especially the one where your thumb meets the rest of your hand). It could be my bowing technique (or lack thereof...) of course.
Anybody else have similar problems, and if so possible remedies or suggestions?
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by oraghalm
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
I have joint problems too, in various parts of the body. Recently, on recommendation from various friends and acquaintances I have begun to take Glucosamine and Chondroitin tablets on a regular basis, and also Cod Liver Oil capsules. This has made a tremendous difference to my sore joints, and I recommend trying it. It is worth shopping around, and reading the packet carefully before you buy, because the price per tablet and the dosage per tablet vary tremendously. One of the best prices I have found so far is from www.healthspan.co.uk (based in Guernsey).
Be warned also that the tablets do not improve my playing on mandolin or banjolin.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
Make sure your thumb is always flexible, not stiff. Bending it more or less as you use different parts of the bow also helps it to stay straight, ie., at right angles to the string, and the tone will be consistent, squeakless, and more controlled.
Then don't over-play, if possible take a short rest between sets.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by fiddlefingers
And cod liver oil works for me too.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
Remember too that you don't need to "grip" the bow--your thumb and fingers should be free of muscle tension. With the pinky on top of the stick above the screw, and the index finger draped lightly over the stick above the thumb, the thumb simply offers a fulcrum between the two. No need to squeeze. Kevin Burke likens it to holding a small bird, or a cigarette without dimpling the paper. You can't overemphasize how relaxed your bow hand should be...takes no more "grip" than sleeping....
Your thumb should be bent a bit at the joint closest to its tip--if this is straight, it will transfer force back to the knuckle and even wrist, which can cause problems. Same goes for the pinky--most of the time it should be in a relaxed, slight curve over the stick.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
Yes, it's all coming out now, the pain we endure as fiddler's. I do not get pain in my thumb joint but right on the end of my thumb. Again we must be aware of muscle tensions and relax them as much as we can. I find my hand move's and changes position on the bow as I play, depending on what's happening. This is quite handy for me when my thumb begins to pulse half-way through a set of lively tunes. I am feeling much better now knowing it's not just me that has problems.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Ann
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
An alternative is to use a grip favoured by "bluegrass" fiddle players. Holding the thumb under the base of the frog with the fingers resting on the stick. I find this helps with 'shuffles' and it gives you the entire range of the bow to play with.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Greenwiggle
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
yes,i can only echo the above advice: if you're using your thumb then it's a best not to keep it straight and indeed the term 'grip' is unfortuneate.that said,i should practise what i preach.
if you find it hard to bend the thumb a bit you might try playing a few strokes with a ping-pong ball placed between the thumb/forefinger joint but only to give you the feeling - don't tense up and play for ages like that or else it will end in tears.or pain.but mainly pain i would think.
or,if you're entirely a natural you won't have to worry and in which case,feck off ,you lucky sods...
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by biggus dave
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
I believe the "bluegrass" grip mentioned by greenwiggle is what was known as the French style in the 18c, so it has a quite an old history.
Trevor
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
Thanks for all the suggestions folks, I do keep the thumb bent and flexible when playing alright.
One thing I do that I know I probably shouldn't is hold the bow a good bit up from the frog, not quite as far as you see some fiddlers doing (Máiréad Ní Mhaonaigh for example), I find even if I start off holding it right at the bottom, a few minutes I find I've unconsciously slid up a couple of inches. Like I say, I know I shouldn't but it seems to suit me better.
# Posted on August 6th 2003 by oraghalm
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
Why shouldn't you hold the bow however it suits you best? If you want to grip it up a couple of inches from the frog, by all means do so! The music police are not going to arrest you. I played the viola (classical) when I was in school -- that was decades ago! -- but now when I play the fiddle, I hold the bow a little in front of the frog. I just like the way it feels, especially when playing bowed triplets, which I do a lot. I think the example of Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh is a good one -- she's a great fiddler, so obviously her bowing style works for her. I say you should do whatever is comfortable and works for you and not worry if someone else does it differently.
Aimee
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by print o' the wave
Re: Thumbs and Bowing
My violin teacher taught us a great stretch about fifteen years back, and I have been using it before and after every practice with great result. You spread the fingers of both hands wide apart, and then slowly pull the tips of your fingers up using your muscle control, holding it as long as you can and then releasing it. This stretches out the tendons that are probably causing you all that grief, and has the added benefit of extending your reach on the strings and giving your vibrato that extra little zing.
Pampering your hands with an over the counter muscle rub like Aspercreme (obviously not fingertips that touch metal and frog) will help also.
My aunt has this same trouble from a fall a few years back, and these have done wonders for her. Hope that they help you out
# Posted on August 22nd 2003 by lovelylydia