While everyone is getting their knickers in a twist in the threads below, how about a nice tune to play, listen to and see if you know the name of? It's the first tune in this video of Gilles Apap playing in India: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QTephwA_WrQ
I got the ABC for it too:
X: 1
T: Gan Ainm
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Emin
A | Bee f2 e | dBG ABA | ~G3 FGB | AGA ~B3 | Bee f2 e | dBG ABA | ~G3 FdD | FED E2 :||: D | CEG c3 | DFA d3 | eBG EGB | e3 efg | gfe fed | BAG FGA | BAG FdD | DED E2 :||
I really like it! Anyone recognise it? I looked on the Reverend's new tune searcher, and couldn't find it. If no-one knows by tomorrow, I'll just submit it under "Gan Ainm", and hope for the best.
"Doe, a deer a female deer?" It's not the first note of the scale that you need to focus on here , but the fifth, as in : "Soh, a needle pulling (a nice) thread ....
Joe
Part of your tune contains a fragment of "Rosin the Beau"
"Knickers in twist?" Would that be as in UK English useage then, or US English useage? If the former, would those posters that you referred to be female - or transvestites?
UK English - "knickers" = female undergarment worn on the nether regions.
US English - "knickers" = knee-breeches.
This a is always a great source of amusement to English Morris dancers, if they view a website of a side of Morris dancers in America, and read: "that the dancers (male) all wear knickers!!
A couple more to be wary of:
If you are English, visting America and wish to purchase an eraser, whatever you do don't ask for "a rubber"
If you are a male American visiting England, don't tell anyone that you wear "suspenders"!
If you watch the video carefully, a few bars into the first tune, the following text appears:
"Folklore Irlandais avec percussions Indiennes
The Hanuman's Gigue"
As someone who speaks English as his first language, I would say the title could be legitimately tidied up to 'Hanuman's Jig'. (I have never heard the monkey god referred to as '*The* Hanuman', but I'm no Hindu theologist). I would hazard a guess that it is a composition of Gilles Apap - he's evidently spent time in India and, from going on the title, this tune probably doesn't originate from Ireland (unless it's a corruption of Hanrahan, Hardiman, O'Halloran or some such like )
That said, he plays several tunes in the video, but there's only the one title given, so it might possibly be the title of the whole video itself, rather than the tune.
I didn't think it worked at all. The much more pronounced swing from the fiddle jarred with the straighter drumming. I thought his masons apron was an awful jumble, and the reels in general were much too fast for him. (I'm not saying too fast, just too fast for him). I just got the feeling that there wasn't much listening to each other going on. Whole thing was a mess.
""The" would be the definite article for "jig", not "Hanuman""
In that case, Bren, it is incorrect use of the definite article. You don't use 'the' when there is a possessive (apostrophe s) involved:
Morrison's Jig not *The* Morrison's Jig
Sonny's Mazurka not *The* Sonny's Mazurka
"I've never heard Kesh referred to as "The Kesh", either."
That's another matter entirely. Where the attributive element of the title is an adjective or a noun (e.g. a placename) functioning as an adjective, then the definite article is used, and belongs to the tune type, not to the attributive element e.g:
The Chicago Reel
The Soporific Hornpipe
The Congress Reel (although this is an ambiguous example, as the article could belong either to 'congress' or to 'reel')
If the title contains a possessive which itself contains the definite article (e.g a personal title, occupational name or epithet), then the article is retained in the title, e.g:
The Reverend Brother's Jig
The Hanged Man's Reel
The Sailor's Hornpipe
If, in place of a possessive or the adjectival use of a noun, the preposition 'of' is used, then the definite article is used, belonging to the tune type, not the attributive element, e.g:
The Reel of Mullinavat
The Jig of Slurs
So, unless Hanuman is sometimes known as 'The Hanuman' (as Daghda, the Celtic deity, is sometimes known as 'The Daghda), then 'The Hanuman's Jig' is incorrect.
'The Jig of Hanuman' (a direct translation of the French, according to the tune request linked to above), on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable, grammatically speaking.
In retrospect, both of these examples are ambiguous. A 'sailor's hornpipe' is a type of hornpipe (dance), so it as easily be 'the hornpipe associated with a sailor (or sailors in general' as 'a hornpipe associated with the (a specific) sailor'.
Similarly, is The Hanged Man's Reel 'a reel associated with The Hanged Man' or 'the reel associated with a (any) hanged man'.
I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room.
I understand his point though, so let's settle on an ambiguous translation as the culprit
"Ragaman, are you an English teacher of grammar and rhetoric when you aren't playing music?"
Thankfully not. I'm far too passionate about such things to successfully convey them to dispassionate students. They'd all rebel and end up sPkin txtok.
"I understand his point though..."
...B
"I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room."
"Ragaman, are you an English teacher of grammar and rhetoric when you aren't playing music?"
Thankfully not. I'm far too passionate about such things to successfully convey them to dispassionate students. They'd all rebel and end up sPkin txtok.
"I understand his point though..."
...Bren being a notable exception.
"I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room."
Not a Jesuit priest, although I've been told I look like one. I did once hear it said that, "Only a Jew can hold two opposing opinions without going mad." I cannot prove my sanity - I cannot be certain of it myself - but I could verify my lineage.
...which implies that all Jesuit priests are mad - not an unreasonably assumption of a man who argues with himself in an empty room. But assumptions are often wrong.
Now, I'm climbing out of this hole before it gets any deeper.
"..which implies that all Jesuit priests are mad..."
Just in case of any offense that might be caused to anyone reading this, I would like to emphasize that this does not reflect my personal opinion of Jesuit priests (about whom I know far too little to make any judgments).
This is where deleting posts would be a useful feature on this site.
Ragaman, you did such a good job of explaining the correct use and the incorrect use of the definitive article and the correct placement of an apostrophe as well as the other elements of grammar that I thought you must do that for a living.
I was trying to pay you a compliment and I hope you will take it as a compliment.
Like you, I can verify my lineage but not my sanity.
This is a nice thread
This is a nice thread
While everyone is getting their knickers in a twist in the threads below, how about a nice tune to play, listen to and see if you know the name of? It's the first tune in this video of Gilles Apap playing in India: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QTephwA_WrQ
I got the ABC for it too:
X: 1
T: Gan Ainm
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Emin
A | Bee f2 e | dBG ABA | ~G3 FGB | AGA ~B3 | Bee f2 e | dBG ABA | ~G3 FdD | FED E2 :||: D | CEG c3 | DFA d3 | eBG EGB | e3 efg | gfe fed | BAG FGA | BAG FdD | DED E2 :||
I really like it! Anyone recognise it? I looked on the Reverend's new tune searcher, and couldn't find it. If no-one knows by tomorrow, I'll just submit it under "Gan Ainm", and hope for the best.
Thanks!
Joe
# Posted on November 13th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: This is a nice thread
Sorry, the last bar should be FED E2 :||
# Posted on November 13th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: This is a nice thread
Is it that one from the Sound of Music? You know, "Doe, a deer, a female deer........."
Well it looks like that.
To the uneducated.
To me.
# Posted on November 13th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: This is a nice thread
No, whatever it is, I don't think it's that...
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: This is a nice thread
Bodhran b
"Doe, a deer a female deer?" It's not the first note of the scale that you need to focus on here , but the fifth, as in : "Soh, a needle pulling (a nice) thread ....
Joe
Part of your tune contains a fragment of "Rosin the Beau"
"Knickers in twist?" Would that be as in UK English useage then, or US English useage? If the former, would those posters that you referred to be female - or transvestites?
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: This is a nice thread
What's the US usage? I mean, I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist about it or anything, but I'd like to know!
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by c.g.
Re: This is a nice thread
Happy to oblige!
UK English - "knickers" = female undergarment worn on the nether regions.
US English - "knickers" = knee-breeches.
This a is always a great source of amusement to English Morris dancers, if they view a website of a side of Morris dancers in America, and read: "that the dancers (male) all wear knickers!!
A couple more to be wary of:
If you are English, visting America and wish to purchase an eraser, whatever you do don't ask for "a rubber"
If you are a male American visiting England, don't tell anyone that you wear "suspenders"!
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: This is a nice thread
... and of course, if you are an American called "Randy" and visiting Engalnd, never introduce yourself by saying:
"I'm Randy!"
... Especially not to a woman ...
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: This is a nice thread
I knew someone who met two Norwegians. One said, "Hello, I am Randi and my friend here is Odd!"
There really should have been a third one, called Bent...that's a real name, too.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by nicholas
Re: This is a nice thread
If you watch the video carefully, a few bars into the first tune, the following text appears:
)
"Folklore Irlandais avec percussions Indiennes
The Hanuman's Gigue"
As someone who speaks English as his first language, I would say the title could be legitimately tidied up to 'Hanuman's Jig'. (I have never heard the monkey god referred to as '*The* Hanuman', but I'm no Hindu theologist). I would hazard a guess that it is a composition of Gilles Apap - he's evidently spent time in India and, from going on the title, this tune probably doesn't originate from Ireland (unless it's a corruption of Hanrahan, Hardiman, O'Halloran or some such like
That said, he plays several tunes in the video, but there's only the one title given, so it might possibly be the title of the whole video itself, rather than the tune.
Then again, a google search revealed this:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index.php/requests?request_member_id=47031
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
At 3:30 appears "Young Tom Ennis", so I guess "The Hanuman's Gigue" is the title of the first tune.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: This is a nice thread
I didn't think it worked at all. The much more pronounced swing from the fiddle jarred with the straighter drumming. I thought his masons apron was an awful jumble, and the reels in general were much too fast for him. (I'm not saying too fast, just too fast for him). I just got the feeling that there wasn't much listening to each other going on. Whole thing was a mess.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: This is a nice thread
*I have never heard the monkey god referred to as '*The* Hanuman*
ragaman-
"The" would be the definite article for "jig", not "Hanuman"
I've never heard Kesh referred to as "The Kesh", either.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Bren
Re: This is a nice thread
OK, thanks! I'm surprised I didn't notice it said Hanumans Gigue underneath that tune, as I did notice when it said Young Tom Ennis!
I meant Knickers in the UK usage, of course. But thanks for the language advice, I'm going to the US soon...
So now to submit....
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: This is a nice thread
Sure it wasn't The Hangman's Reel in another guise?
(I couldn't see the whole spiel, YouTube tends to play up on me...)
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by nicholas
Re: This is a nice thread
""The" would be the definite article for "jig", not "Hanuman""
In that case, Bren, it is incorrect use of the definite article. You don't use 'the' when there is a possessive (apostrophe s) involved:
Morrison's Jig not *The* Morrison's Jig
Sonny's Mazurka not *The* Sonny's Mazurka
"I've never heard Kesh referred to as "The Kesh", either."
That's another matter entirely. Where the attributive element of the title is an adjective or a noun (e.g. a placename) functioning as an adjective, then the definite article is used, and belongs to the tune type, not to the attributive element e.g:
The Chicago Reel
The Soporific Hornpipe
The Congress Reel (although this is an ambiguous example, as the article could belong either to 'congress' or to 'reel')
If the title contains a possessive which itself contains the definite article (e.g a personal title, occupational name or epithet), then the article is retained in the title, e.g:
The Reverend Brother's Jig
The Hanged Man's Reel
The Sailor's Hornpipe
If, in place of a possessive or the adjectival use of a noun, the preposition 'of' is used, then the definite article is used, belonging to the tune type, not the attributive element, e.g:
The Reel of Mullinavat
The Jig of Slurs
So, unless Hanuman is sometimes known as 'The Hanuman' (as Daghda, the Celtic deity, is sometimes known as 'The Daghda), then 'The Hanuman's Jig' is incorrect.
'The Jig of Hanuman' (a direct translation of the French, according to the tune request linked to above), on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable, grammatically speaking.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
"The Hanged Man's Reel
The Sailor's Hornpipe"
In retrospect, both of these examples are ambiguous. A 'sailor's hornpipe' is a type of hornpipe (dance), so it as easily be 'the hornpipe associated with a sailor (or sailors in general' as 'a hornpipe associated with the (a specific) sailor'.
Similarly, is The Hanged Man's Reel 'a reel associated with The Hanged Man' or 'the reel associated with a (any) hanged man'.
But that doesn't alter the main point of my post.
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
Ragaman, are you an English teacher of grammar and rhetoric when you aren't playing music?
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: This is a nice thread
I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room.
I understand his point though, so let's settle on an ambiguous translation as the culprit
# Posted on November 14th 2008 by Bren
Re: This is a nice thread
"Ragaman, are you an English teacher of grammar and rhetoric when you aren't playing music?"
Thankfully not. I'm far too passionate about such things to successfully convey them to dispassionate students. They'd all rebel and end up sPkin txtok.
"I understand his point though..."
...B
"I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room."
# Posted on November 15th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
That all went horribly wrong. I'll start again:
"Ragaman, are you an English teacher of grammar and rhetoric when you aren't playing music?"
Thankfully not. I'm far too passionate about such things to successfully convey them to dispassionate students. They'd all rebel and end up sPkin txtok.
"I understand his point though..."
...Bren being a notable exception.
"I'm pretty sure he's a Jesuit priest because he managed to have an argument with himself in an empty room."
Not a Jesuit priest, although I've been told I look like one. I did once hear it said that, "Only a Jew can hold two opposing opinions without going mad." I cannot prove my sanity - I cannot be certain of it myself - but I could verify my lineage.
# Posted on November 15th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
...which implies that all Jesuit priests are mad - not an unreasonably assumption of a man who argues with himself in an empty room. But assumptions are often wrong.
Now, I'm climbing out of this hole before it gets any deeper.
# Posted on November 15th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
"..which implies that all Jesuit priests are mad..."
Just in case of any offense that might be caused to anyone reading this, I would like to emphasize that this does not reflect my personal opinion of Jesuit priests (about whom I know far too little to make any judgments).
This is where deleting posts would be a useful feature on this site.
# Posted on November 15th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: This is a nice thread
i thought I left liguistics behind when I graduated from uni!
# Posted on November 15th 2008 by Pádraig
Re: This is a nice thread
Ragaman, you did such a good job of explaining the correct use and the incorrect use of the definitive article and the correct placement of an apostrophe as well as the other elements of grammar that I thought you must do that for a living.
I was trying to pay you a compliment and I hope you will take it as a compliment.
Like you, I can verify my lineage but not my sanity.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by fauxcelt