I recently bought and repaired an old Renelli 30 button anglo concertina. After I got it all back together, I noticed I can move the bellows in and out with moderate pressure. The bellows seem solid and I don't hear anything when it's moving so the leak must be where the bellows and ends connect.
Before I took it apart again, I thought I'd ask if a little air leak is to be expected. I know air leaks are difficult to quantify, but I'll try anyway. If I have the concertina fully compressed and hold it vertically by one end, the other end will drop about 6 inches in 10 seconds. I don't know much about concertinas, but that seems excessive.
(I bought it online for $31, a dollar a button, and repaired the buttons with fish tank tubing I found in my garage. It's a fascinating little instrument. If I can figure out a few tunes on it I may consider upgrading later,)
Oh! That's a bit of a leak. I think the rule of thumb is about 30 seconds or more
for the way you tested it.
There's several things to check....
Worst case is a cracked 'pad board' but you can usually hear the 'wheezing' from that.
Could be several leaky pads, warped reed pans, several pinholes in the bellows....
cutting to the chase - there's a lot of places for the air to take the wrong path.
The best tool for finding leaks is a stethoscope with the diaphragm replaced with a
small tube (say, less than 1/8 inch dia.). Probe around through the fretwork, listening
near each pad and around the perimeter of the padboard, bellows folds etc.
When you find a leak, it'll sound like a tornado.....and I suspect you'll find several.
Have a look at Concertina Net: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?act=idx
A fine bunch of folks over there.....a huge knowledge base and very helpful.
Also, get (and I have no financial interests in the sale of the book, etc. etc.)
The Concertina Maintenance Manual by David Elliott. It's a 'must have' even if you
never plan to dig into repairs yourself.
Hope that helps.....Happy squeezing! (a buck a button - not bad!!)
J
I would suggest it's not TOO bad - I heard 20 seconds to open fully under the weight of one end is good. Bearing in mind the general technology you cant expect anything that'll hold the pads closed and totally airtight to also have a light playable action. I'm presuming there's an air button, so you can recover if you get fully closed or fully open on a phrase of music ?
Air leaks don't make a concertina unplayable but they are much easier to play when they have none at all. To find leaks in the bellows or in the joins put your tongue near the concertina, down in the folds (steady down the back) and compress the bellows. You will feel the cold air on your tongue. Usually touching the bellows with your tongue will taste awful so you can try to avoid that. Pads leaking can be heard as previously stated. A single tiny hole will take the edge off the performance of the concertina. 20 seconds is way too fast and you will have your thumb on the air button all the time to compensate.
when air leaks from a pad or along the reed-pan join, you can usually hear a squeak from the reeds.
Hold the bellows up to your face and press to see if the bellows are leaking on a corner.
When I started to take my button accordeon apart, one of the things wrong with it (I'd bought it cheap, to do up) was that the bellows opened too easily. This turned out to be because one of the pins holding the bellows to the end was so loose that every time I pulled the bellows open, a gap was opened too - between the end and the bellows! Needless to say, this was the first thing I fixed!
Thanks for the tips. I've got a couple of buttons that keep getting crooked so I'll have to open it up anyway. I'll give everything a thorough inspection and hopefully be able to fix it.
It's not unplayable by any means, it just seems like I run out of bellows too soon.
Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
I recently bought and repaired an old Renelli 30 button anglo concertina. After I got it all back together, I noticed I can move the bellows in and out with moderate pressure. The bellows seem solid and I don't hear anything when it's moving so the leak must be where the bellows and ends connect.
Before I took it apart again, I thought I'd ask if a little air leak is to be expected. I know air leaks are difficult to quantify, but I'll try anyway. If I have the concertina fully compressed and hold it vertically by one end, the other end will drop about 6 inches in 10 seconds. I don't know much about concertinas, but that seems excessive.
(I bought it online for $31, a dollar a button, and repaired the buttons with fish tank tubing I found in my garage. It's a fascinating little instrument. If I can figure out a few tunes on it I may consider upgrading later,)
# Posted on November 2nd 2008 by CleverName
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
Oh! That's a bit of a leak. I think the rule of thumb is about 30 seconds or more
for the way you tested it.
There's several things to check....
Worst case is a cracked 'pad board' but you can usually hear the 'wheezing' from that.
Could be several leaky pads, warped reed pans, several pinholes in the bellows....
cutting to the chase - there's a lot of places for the air to take the wrong path.
The best tool for finding leaks is a stethoscope with the diaphragm replaced with a
small tube (say, less than 1/8 inch dia.). Probe around through the fretwork, listening
near each pad and around the perimeter of the padboard, bellows folds etc.
When you find a leak, it'll sound like a tornado.....and I suspect you'll find several.
Have a look at Concertina Net:
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?act=idx
A fine bunch of folks over there.....a huge knowledge base and very helpful.
Also, get (and I have no financial interests in the sale of the book, etc. etc.)
The Concertina Maintenance Manual by David Elliott. It's a 'must have' even if you
never plan to dig into repairs yourself.
Hope that helps.....Happy squeezing! (a buck a button - not bad!!)
J
# Posted on November 2nd 2008 by Fr.Jack
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
I would suggest it's not TOO bad - I heard 20 seconds to open fully under the weight of one end is good. Bearing in mind the general technology you cant expect anything that'll hold the pads closed and totally airtight to also have a light playable action. I'm presuming there's an air button, so you can recover if you get fully closed or fully open on a phrase of music ?
# Posted on November 3rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
Air leaks don't make a concertina unplayable but they are much easier to play when they have none at all. To find leaks in the bellows or in the joins put your tongue near the concertina, down in the folds (steady down the back) and compress the bellows. You will feel the cold air on your tongue. Usually touching the bellows with your tongue will taste awful so you can try to avoid that. Pads leaking can be heard as previously stated. A single tiny hole will take the edge off the performance of the concertina. 20 seconds is way too fast and you will have your thumb on the air button all the time to compensate.
# Posted on November 3rd 2008 by cag
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
when air leaks from a pad or along the reed-pan join, you can usually hear a squeak from the reeds.
Hold the bellows up to your face and press to see if the bellows are leaking on a corner.
# Posted on November 3rd 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
When I started to take my button accordeon apart, one of the things wrong with it (I'd bought it cheap, to do up) was that the bellows opened too easily. This turned out to be because one of the pins holding the bellows to the end was so loose that every time I pulled the bellows open, a gap was opened too - between the end and the bellows! Needless to say, this was the first thing I fixed!
# Posted on November 4th 2008 by Ebor_fiddler
Re: Acceptable air leaks on a concertina?
Thanks for the tips. I've got a couple of buttons that keep getting crooked so I'll have to open it up anyway. I'll give everything a thorough inspection and hopefully be able to fix it.
It's not unplayable by any means, it just seems like I run out of bellows too soon.
thanks
# Posted on November 5th 2008 by CleverName