Hello - I am interested in getting a new guitar playing mostly DADGAD tuning and looking for good builders that make guitars specifically for this tuning in mind. I have looked at Forster and Bourgeois so far. Anyone played these guitars? Any opinions on these and other builders out there would be great too. Thanks -Goodin
What a strange question!! Never heard of guitars being built for specific tunings...and: why would I limit myself in this way ?? You can change your guitar tuning any way you want on a good guitar . when I was playing blues and slide guitar, I changed all the time between open G, open D, open E and all the steps in between - like dropped D, for example. Don´t limit your own choices when you don´t have to !
Hello,
There is a alot of benefits getting a guitar which is built not just for DADGAD but open tunings in general. Alot of builders realise this and build guitars for this purpose e.g. Sobell's model D.
I have a De Faoite - Daithi, this suits my playing in dadgad. http://www.defaoiteguitars.com/
Other builders like lowen, nick benjamin, mcillroy, avalon are all good, depends on your price range.
Any guitar can be played in DADGAD. The only thing I'd say is if the action is way low to begin with, by lowering the strings to DADGAD you may create a buzz because the strings are more slack. If you intend to only play in DADGAD, in that case, I'd ask the builder or if store bought ,a guitar tech to raise the action a tiny hair to where they won't buzz.
i like my guitars to be set way low on the action, and play dropped D for backing, but like the ones used for tune playing in DADGAD to be just 1/4 turn at most higher, done with the truss rod adjuster (you can do it yourself after a tech shows you, but don't try before that).
So the answer is get the guitar that sounds best and feels best. No particular type or maker. There are many nice ones to choose from. Just make sure it's easy to play too.
Well the advice has really already been given. Get the guitar that you like the most. The biggest choices for you should be the woods the guitar is made from and the body shape. Are you after a chunky sound, a very bottom end sound, a jazzy light sound? The wood and shape effect this more than the name on the top.
Summarising the - rosewood generally gives a sound with lots of bottom end. Maple is a more jazzy sound. Mahogany can be bassy also. In terms of the tops cedar will sound warmer from the start whilst spruce will take longer to bed in. The sound you get from Cedar will not change much over time however whilst spruce will improve with age.
These are very general guidelines and will vary from maker to maker. Certainly Bourgeois and Forster are both fantastic makers. Forster has designed some odd guitars in the short while he has been operating independently from Sobell but he is experimenting a lot and does have the knowledge to back his designs up. When I was shopping for a guitar I was looking for a Lowden but you could not find them anywhere at the time. I ended up with the Taylor and am happy with it. It can be quite a quiet guitar in a really busy session but it has a lovely tone and the pickup in it is exceptional. It is fairly small bodied (it is a 414CE). If I was to get another guitar I would probably look for a larger bodied guitar.
Shop around and see what you like. Try the guitars in DADGAD. I bought mine from Sound Control in Glasgow (RIP) and had been in numerous times retuning the guitars to DADGAD and then tuning them back. The one I bought in the end was the one I forgot to tune back to standard. I came in a week or so later and it just sang out having been sitting in DADGAD for a while. There was another identical guitar there and it was not a patch on it!
But where are you ? Put in some biog.
it might be handy to know your approximate location to advise you on local luthiers.
But I concur with other suggestions - it's not the tuning, it's whether you like the guitar. There are string sets specially made for such tunings which might also be useful once you get the instrument.
Also, always try the instrument, if it's in a shop, don't just go for a make and model. I was once in a shop in North Carolina, with two secondhand Martins hanging on the wall, a D18 ,and a D28, both looking in good shape and with the same price. I am a fan of Martins, and am lucky enough to have inherited a small old OO17. I tried these two instruments, and the D18 sang, and the D28, which should have been even better, was a lump of wood.
Instruments respond to how to treat them, in how they develop. It's always possible that the dead D28 just hadn't been played.
I was messing around with 2 Martins in Sound Control once. One of them cost over £4000 and the other over £5000. Believe it or not the cheap guitar was much better than the expensive one. Just shows you that price is not everything.
I’m highly skeptical of any claims that it’s within the capabilities of a luthier to predictably optimize the sound of a guitar for DADGAD over standard tuning. I think it’s far more likely that a guitar that sounds great in DADGAD will also sound just as great in EADGBE, and vice versa. The things that definitely should be considered are the action setup and string gauges.
I could be persuaded that an extreme case like Martin Carthy’s very low C tuning with heavy string gauges could be addressed in the design and construction, but DADGAD and standard are not that far apart, especially when you up the string gauge for the lowered strings, thus restoring the spread of tension.
There are luthiers that design their guitars with the traditional and folk market in mind and will be designing the sound of their guitar around pre-conceived ideas of what is desirable when playing within this or any particular genre. Of course your ideas of the right sound might be different from that of the next person - the best advice is still to go and shop around and try different makes. The really popular and recognised makes for traditional guitar playing would include Lowden, Sobell, Fylde, Martin, Collings and so forth - they all sound very different from each other though.
As Bob says there is not that much difference between DADGAD and EADGBE in terms of tension to warrant a different design. I have recently upped the gauge of my set from 12s to 13s to account for the tuning down - it has taken me years to decide to do that. I am losing the middle strings with regularity now though so may end up ordering sets to suit with only the tuned down strings upped a gauge - anyway that bears no relation to your question so I apologise for getting sidetracked.
No Cause For Alarm is right, I think. You have to try them out. Individual copies of the same model can vary in tone, even those from respected makers.
A DADGAD guitarist I have played with a lot loves his Santa Cruz OM, which has a lovely bright tone (his Martin sounds dull and muddy by comparison). But he said had to return the first guitar that Santa Cruz shipped to him, because that one did not have the bright tone he heard when he tried a demo model.
Jesus! I'm sorry to be so negative, but come on!! Ask a stupid question and you'll get a stupid answer, or even a few if you're really lucky. Go and try some bloody guitars and make up your mind,. I could tell you about my blind granny's guitar that I tuned like a lute, or some other equally useless nonsense, or maybe I could use this oppritunity to blather on about rosewood, maple, blah blah, string guages, bore snore, some fella I used to know who played the bouzouki with his arse, different guitars I tried while swimming up the Amazon. Jesus, the sh*te talk that goes on here sometimes would bring you to tears........I'm so distraught I can't type anymore
I agree with T.
Lotza so called musicians spend much more time talking and fantasizing amongst themselves about instruments and their associated hardware than they ever do thinking or talking about the actual music they are supposed to be making with the blinking things.
Guitarists are quite possibly the worse in this area especially as they additionally have amps and pedals to go on and on about. They all seem to think that the secret to playing well is not hours and years of straightforward PRACTICE, they think they just have to get the right instrument and bingo!
Well true enough, it's mostly just the player, but there are some guitars that are a dream to play and others just are not. Find one you like and that's that. If you could compare a lot in the same store on the same day, same room, that would help. Tune them to DADGAD and try all.
A $200 guitar in the hands of John Renbourne or Tony Mcmanus will sound better than a $10,000 guitar in the hands of someone who can barely play. Of course they'd want wonderful action no matter what, and most guitars can be set up pretty much for exactly how you like to play, what strings you use etc. The guitar doesn't have to cost a fortune to be the right one, but some of those hand made ones are a dream to play, especially if they are custom made for you. You can specify what sort of sound you are looking for and they can do it.
Have fun looking though, it's fun to try many of them out!
Hello - Goodin here...the originator of this topic. Thanks for the wonderful advice (and no thanks to the worthless comments from T). Pete, I am from Knoxville, TN, USA. I ask this so-called "stupid question" because I am not able to personally play the guitars I am interested in because no one here sells them. So, I was wanting some opinions from people that may have played them or heard them played. The closest place from me that sells Bourgeois is Nashville and I don't know anyone around here that has a Forster. I am looking for a guitar with good clarity and volume, that is balanced (slightly more bass). I play a Larrivee - D-03R and it is very muddy and balanced way more to the bass side. I really like the looks of the Forster J but am unable to try one out because of the distance.
I was also surprised that builders now are making guitars designed for open tunings. Apparently a longer neck, bigger body, bracing patterns, and compensated saddle apply to the tunings better. I am not one to agree or disagree but the idea sure is appealing.
I am going to try out some others listed above, and some Martins and Taylors too. I just prefer to support the small builders.
Ooops. I see Forster's in the UK--shipping for a trial would be prohibitive. Maybe he could put you in touch with someone in TN who owns one of his guitars.
I wonder if the question of what guitar is best for DADGAD or any particular type of tuning would better be aimed more at body type than at brand? To put it more simply, just consider one maker - say Martin (substitute your favorite if you prefer) for instance. What body type - anything from parlor to jumbo - would best be suited for a particular tuning style?
I have read that luthiers are now specifying models for finger-style, making these with lighter bracing and specifying lighter gauge strings.
From a luthier perspective, what is the difference between a Classical and a Flamenco guitar?
There is certainly a difference between classical and flamenco strings - I would imagine that, similarly, classical guitars want a more mellow and balanced sound, while flamenco guitars want a strong treble.
On the original question, and how it is being answered, I am trying to imagine what would be the tonal characteristics I would want from a guitar to play DADGAD accompanments for ITM on ? I'm thinking that maybe the two ends of the sound spectrum would be the most important, and the mid-range maybe not so critical, as you want both the bass to be well audible, but also enough of the top-end to be able to hear the pitch clearly above other instruments ?
Classical and flamenco guitars are very different. The type of woods, bracing and thickness of the top, back and sides is different. Flamenco players want a bright, snappy sound and a very sensitive response to slurs.
“I have read that luthiers are now specifying models for finger-style, making these with lighter bracing and specifying lighter gauge strings.“
Yes, and these guitars often don’t do so well for strumming chords with a pick – a good point for goodin to consider (do you plan to fingerpick, flatpick, strum, all?).
“To put it more simply, just consider one maker - say Martin (substitute your favorite if you prefer) for instance. What body type - anything from parlor to jumbo - would best be suited for a particular tuning style?“
Some body styles tend to be better (or worse) for fingerstyle or plectrum, but I wouldn’t associate a body style with tunings. Dreadnaughts, for example, usually like to be driven by a plectrum and often don’t respond well to fingerpicking. The baroque body style is quite small, but capable of an amazingly big, full sound. In my experience, great for fingerstyle, boomy and muddy for plectral strumming.
Maple Street Guitars, in Atlanta, usually has a good selection of fine guitars. Call ahead and see what’s in the store and maybe it’ll be worth a day trip to check some out. They’ll let you go to a practice room and take as long as you need. Dream Guitars specializes in lone-luthier hand-made instruments. Asheville is a great town, too.
And, as Will said, many dealers will ship on approval.
Hello, Nigel here! Well if you don't mind a bit of a trip, one of my customers has a Model J in Dallas, Texas - a very friendly chap too - if you get in touch through my website, I could put the pair of you together. He also has a C.
I also have a Panamanian Rosewood Model J sitting on my sofa as I type. The fate of the guitar has not been decided yet, but Ian Stephenson says he will record a sound sample of it for me this week if he can get in the studio, I was thinking of sending it off for review.
Bob... I never heard of a luthier optimizing for DADGAD or other tuning, but they can predict fairly reasonably how bright, dark, bassey, punchy, balanced, or bottom endy, etc. It will be moderately predictable with wood choice and bracing design and patterning, scalloping braces or not, what radius is used on the back etc. It can be surprisingly predictable.
I know two very brilliant luthiers in NJ who are not so famous, maybe make about eight - ten or so a year, been at it a long time... and some very high end players swear by their instruments.
give them a shout too, they love talking guitars and building. The Foleys are very deep sounding and powerful if you are doing DADGAD backup, strumming and want real presence they are great, they really kick like no other, a very special sound. The DiDomenicos... great, but more balanced. I am working with Tony Di right now a bit, learning more about building, and the guitars are about the most easy playing I ever used. This one is a little 00 size, but being build to be LOUD.
The DADGAD really is a short hop from standard tuning, but as I mentioned, I like my guitar action down as low as it can get withough buzzing. Even for backing. So when I tune just those few strings a teeny bit lower, I will be prone to buzzing a little. Most guitars are set higher action than mine, so it will unlikely be a problem.
The one thing that drives me a little mad is the low D, when you're at the 5th fret or higher you go sharp unless very lightly pressed...and even then some. It's another reason I like the action way low, it compensates for that a little.... as would a medium guage string there on the D, rather than the lights I use. But I don't like the medium... so... live with it. On the guitar I am working on now with Tony Di. I will try to address this..... but really, with all the Dropped D and DADGAD players out there, it seems it would be sensible to make a low D string for that purpose rather than use the Low E tuned down. Maybe that would work, but I don't really know enough about strings on that level.
There are the odd guitar shows here and there, if you google that. You'd be able to sample many and there are often small builders there along with the Martins, Taylors etc.
The Never Ending Expectations of Guitar Hobbyists...
Mr Goodin, there you go again!
I think you are missing the point!
In asking what guitar Paul McSherry uses is falling into the stupid trap again. His particular instrument is irrelevant to how he sounds, it'll all be in HIS fingers, his BRAIN. Even if you got hold of his actual box I'm sorry to report you would still sound like old you! And conversely, he would sound like him if he had a go on your (presumably unsatisfactory)guitar.
PLus the sound you hear from him will be very altered by the mysteries of the recording process/ sound system settings, mic or string selection and so forth.
The secret is to find your own style and sound. Copying is bound to end in dissappointment!
My partner plays mainly in DADGAD and discussed this with the luthier before he made the guitar. The guitars play really well in that tuning. Check out Nick Benjamin's guitars - they are out of this world:
Krick,
You bring up a good point. I saw a recent DVD of Neil Young in performance where he discusses a particular Martin he was playing at the time. He talked about its pedigree, the famous musicians that had previously owned and played on it. When Neil played it, it still sounded just like Neil Young.
Krick is so right. Just find something easy for you to play that sounds really nice to your ears. The right one will just say "pick me".
What kind of DADGAD playing are you doing.... some guitar models are more suited to heavy strumming, others for fingerstyle. I like fingerstyle on OMs or smaller bodies. I don't usually play dreadnaughts anymore, but if I know I will be playing with a loud piper or box and really have to kick the backing strongly, I might take out a dreadnaught. They hurt my shoulder too though, on the right....not a big person so that shoulder sticking in the air can start aching. Since starting to build (none for sale, keeping them thus far!) I am building ergonomic OMs with no bindings or sharp edges, and a little slope sanded in for under the right arm, so you don't get a pinched nerve. Very comfy. If you like something along those lines Tony DiDomenico can make one. He is also pretty reasonable on the prices. He makes jazz guitars, archtops too, and goes wild on them, major inlays etc. so those are pricey, but the dreads and OMs are reasonable.
“Bob... I never heard of a luthier optimizing for DADGAD or other tuning, but they can predict fairly reasonably how bright, dark, bassey, punchy, balanced, or bottom endy, etc. It will be moderately predictable with wood choice and bracing design and patterning, scalloping braces or not, what radius is used on the back etc. It can be surprisingly predictable.”
Sure. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I think we’re mostly in violent agreement that the best advice is to try as many instruments as possible not rely so much on endorsements.
Sam Irwin Guitars are amazing. I have one and I set it up myself. Sam is based in Belfast and used to work for George Loudan. He has been making Guitars for years and is a fine craftsman and a gentleman! There was a recent BBC documentary made about him which featured performances from Arty McGlynn, Steve Cooney and Ed Boyd.
How that for an endorsement!
And guitar shopping is great fun. I like a show where you can try a mess of them, and also maybe find a well broken in used high end hand made one at a bargain.
In my opinion, optimizing a guitar for DADGAD is not so much related to the sound of the instrument but rather, the intonation. At least one poster has mentioned the relative sharpness of the 6th string unless you fret extremely lightly so as not to bend the string below the fret. My Taylor GS stays in DADGAD all the time so I had a luthier cut a new saddle specifically for this reason, to optimize the intonation. It was well worth it. The intonation is greatly improved.
A good DADGAD guitar
A good DADGAD guitar
Hello - I am interested in getting a new guitar playing mostly DADGAD tuning and looking for good builders that make guitars specifically for this tuning in mind. I have looked at Forster and Bourgeois so far. Anyone played these guitars? Any opinions on these and other builders out there would be great too. Thanks -Goodin
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by goodin
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
What a strange question!! Never heard of guitars being built for specific tunings...and: why would I limit myself in this way ?? You can change your guitar tuning any way you want on a good guitar . when I was playing blues and slide guitar, I changed all the time between open G, open D, open E and all the steps in between - like dropped D, for example. Don´t limit your own choices when you don´t have to !
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by alexweger
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Hello,
There is a alot of benefits getting a guitar which is built not just for DADGAD but open tunings in general. Alot of builders realise this and build guitars for this purpose e.g. Sobell's model D.
I have a De Faoite - Daithi, this suits my playing in dadgad.
http://www.defaoiteguitars.com/
Other builders like lowen, nick benjamin, mcillroy, avalon are all good, depends on your price range.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by gaddad
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
My OH has a Taylor he normally plays in DADGAD but will change tunings as need be. I'm sure he will post at some point with more information about it.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Any guitar can be played in DADGAD. The only thing I'd say is if the action is way low to begin with, by lowering the strings to DADGAD you may create a buzz because the strings are more slack. If you intend to only play in DADGAD, in that case, I'd ask the builder or if store bought ,a guitar tech to raise the action a tiny hair to where they won't buzz.
i like my guitars to be set way low on the action, and play dropped D for backing, but like the ones used for tune playing in DADGAD to be just 1/4 turn at most higher, done with the truss rod adjuster (you can do it yourself after a tech shows you, but don't try before that).
So the answer is get the guitar that sounds best and feels best. No particular type or maker. There are many nice ones to choose from. Just make sure it's easy to play too.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Well the advice has really already been given. Get the guitar that you like the most. The biggest choices for you should be the woods the guitar is made from and the body shape. Are you after a chunky sound, a very bottom end sound, a jazzy light sound? The wood and shape effect this more than the name on the top.
Summarising the - rosewood generally gives a sound with lots of bottom end. Maple is a more jazzy sound. Mahogany can be bassy also. In terms of the tops cedar will sound warmer from the start whilst spruce will take longer to bed in. The sound you get from Cedar will not change much over time however whilst spruce will improve with age.
These are very general guidelines and will vary from maker to maker. Certainly Bourgeois and Forster are both fantastic makers. Forster has designed some odd guitars in the short while he has been operating independently from Sobell but he is experimenting a lot and does have the knowledge to back his designs up. When I was shopping for a guitar I was looking for a Lowden but you could not find them anywhere at the time. I ended up with the Taylor and am happy with it. It can be quite a quiet guitar in a really busy session but it has a lovely tone and the pickup in it is exceptional. It is fairly small bodied (it is a 414CE). If I was to get another guitar I would probably look for a larger bodied guitar.
Shop around and see what you like. Try the guitars in DADGAD. I bought mine from Sound Control in Glasgow (RIP) and had been in numerous times retuning the guitars to DADGAD and then tuning them back. The one I bought in the end was the one I forgot to tune back to standard. I came in a week or so later and it just sang out having been sitting in DADGAD for a while. There was another identical guitar there and it was not a patch on it!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
The guitar Tony is selling a few threads down might be just the thing!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
But where are you ? Put in some biog.
it might be handy to know your approximate location to advise you on local luthiers.
But I concur with other suggestions - it's not the tuning, it's whether you like the guitar. There are string sets specially made for such tunings which might also be useful once you get the instrument.
Also, always try the instrument, if it's in a shop, don't just go for a make and model. I was once in a shop in North Carolina, with two secondhand Martins hanging on the wall, a D18 ,and a D28, both looking in good shape and with the same price. I am a fan of Martins, and am lucky enough to have inherited a small old OO17. I tried these two instruments, and the D18 sang, and the D28, which should have been even better, was a lump of wood.
Instruments respond to how to treat them, in how they develop. It's always possible that the dead D28 just hadn't been played.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I was messing around with 2 Martins in Sound Control once. One of them cost over £4000 and the other over £5000. Believe it or not the cheap guitar was much better than the expensive one. Just shows you that price is not everything.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I’m highly skeptical of any claims that it’s within the capabilities of a luthier to predictably optimize the sound of a guitar for DADGAD over standard tuning. I think it’s far more likely that a guitar that sounds great in DADGAD will also sound just as great in EADGBE, and vice versa. The things that definitely should be considered are the action setup and string gauges.
I could be persuaded that an extreme case like Martin Carthy’s very low C tuning with heavy string gauges could be addressed in the design and construction, but DADGAD and standard are not that far apart, especially when you up the string gauge for the lowered strings, thus restoring the spread of tension.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
There are luthiers that design their guitars with the traditional and folk market in mind and will be designing the sound of their guitar around pre-conceived ideas of what is desirable when playing within this or any particular genre. Of course your ideas of the right sound might be different from that of the next person - the best advice is still to go and shop around and try different makes. The really popular and recognised makes for traditional guitar playing would include Lowden, Sobell, Fylde, Martin, Collings and so forth - they all sound very different from each other though.
As Bob says there is not that much difference between DADGAD and EADGBE in terms of tension to warrant a different design. I have recently upped the gauge of my set from 12s to 13s to account for the tuning down - it has taken me years to decide to do that. I am losing the middle strings with regularity now though so may end up ordering sets to suit with only the tuned down strings upped a gauge - anyway that bears no relation to your question so I apologise for getting sidetracked.
In short - just try them out!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
No Cause For Alarm is right, I think. You have to try them out. Individual copies of the same model can vary in tone, even those from respected makers.
A DADGAD guitarist I have played with a lot loves his Santa Cruz OM, which has a lovely bright tone (his Martin sounds dull and muddy by comparison). But he said had to return the first guitar that Santa Cruz shipped to him, because that one did not have the bright tone he heard when he tried a demo model.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by John Galt
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Jesus! I'm sorry to be so negative, but come on!! Ask a stupid question and you'll get a stupid answer, or even a few if you're really lucky. Go and try some bloody guitars and make up your mind,. I could tell you about my blind granny's guitar that I tuned like a lute, or some other equally useless nonsense, or maybe I could use this oppritunity to blather on about rosewood, maple, blah blah, string guages, bore snore, some fella I used to know who played the bouzouki with his arse, different guitars I tried while swimming up the Amazon. Jesus, the sh*te talk that goes on here sometimes would bring you to tears........I'm so distraught I can't type anymore
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by T
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I had an anal prolapse once, i tuned it to Bb. Sounded great for slides and polkas, not so good for hornpipes...
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by T
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Easy now, T. You don't want a relapse of that prolapse.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by John Galt
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I agree with T.
Lotza so called musicians spend much more time talking and fantasizing amongst themselves about instruments and their associated hardware than they ever do thinking or talking about the actual music they are supposed to be making with the blinking things.
Guitarists are quite possibly the worse in this area especially as they additionally have amps and pedals to go on and on about. They all seem to think that the secret to playing well is not hours and years of straightforward PRACTICE, they think they just have to get the right instrument and bingo!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Well thank you for your thoughtful input guys!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Well true enough, it's mostly just the player, but there are some guitars that are a dream to play and others just are not. Find one you like and that's that. If you could compare a lot in the same store on the same day, same room, that would help. Tune them to DADGAD and try all.
A $200 guitar in the hands of John Renbourne or Tony Mcmanus will sound better than a $10,000 guitar in the hands of someone who can barely play. Of course they'd want wonderful action no matter what, and most guitars can be set up pretty much for exactly how you like to play, what strings you use etc. The guitar doesn't have to cost a fortune to be the right one, but some of those hand made ones are a dream to play, especially if they are custom made for you. You can specify what sort of sound you are looking for and they can do it.
Have fun looking though, it's fun to try many of them out!
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Hello - Goodin here...the originator of this topic. Thanks for the wonderful advice (and no thanks to the worthless comments from T). Pete, I am from Knoxville, TN, USA. I ask this so-called "stupid question" because I am not able to personally play the guitars I am interested in because no one here sells them. So, I was wanting some opinions from people that may have played them or heard them played. The closest place from me that sells Bourgeois is Nashville and I don't know anyone around here that has a Forster. I am looking for a guitar with good clarity and volume, that is balanced (slightly more bass). I play a Larrivee - D-03R and it is very muddy and balanced way more to the bass side. I really like the looks of the Forster J but am unable to try one out because of the distance.
I was also surprised that builders now are making guitars designed for open tunings. Apparently a longer neck, bigger body, bracing patterns, and compensated saddle apply to the tunings better. I am not one to agree or disagree but the idea sure is appealing.
I am going to try out some others listed above, and some Martins and Taylors too. I just prefer to support the small builders.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by goodin
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Goodin, many builders will ship you an instrument on trial. Get in touch with Forster and ask if they'll do this.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
P.s. - Anyone know what kind of guitar Paul McSherry plays? Man I love the sound of his guitar.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by goodin
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Ooops. I see Forster's in the UK--shipping for a trial would be prohibitive. Maybe he could put you in touch with someone in TN who owns one of his guitars.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Forster's web site says Dream Guitars in Asheville NC has one of his Model C's for sale.....
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I wonder if the question of what guitar is best for DADGAD or any particular type of tuning would better be aimed more at body type than at brand? To put it more simply, just consider one maker - say Martin (substitute your favorite if you prefer) for instance. What body type - anything from parlor to jumbo - would best be suited for a particular tuning style?
I have read that luthiers are now specifying models for finger-style, making these with lighter bracing and specifying lighter gauge strings.
From a luthier perspective, what is the difference between a Classical and a Flamenco guitar?
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by pbassnote
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
There is certainly a difference between classical and flamenco strings - I would imagine that, similarly, classical guitars want a more mellow and balanced sound, while flamenco guitars want a strong treble.
On the original question, and how it is being answered, I am trying to imagine what would be the tonal characteristics I would want from a guitar to play DADGAD accompanments for ITM on ? I'm thinking that maybe the two ends of the sound spectrum would be the most important, and the mid-range maybe not so critical, as you want both the bass to be well audible, but also enough of the top-end to be able to hear the pitch clearly above other instruments ?
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Classical and flamenco guitars are very different. The type of woods, bracing and thickness of the top, back and sides is different. Flamenco players want a bright, snappy sound and a very sensitive response to slurs.
“I have read that luthiers are now specifying models for finger-style, making these with lighter bracing and specifying lighter gauge strings.“
Yes, and these guitars often don’t do so well for strumming chords with a pick – a good point for goodin to consider (do you plan to fingerpick, flatpick, strum, all?).
“To put it more simply, just consider one maker - say Martin (substitute your favorite if you prefer) for instance. What body type - anything from parlor to jumbo - would best be suited for a particular tuning style?“
Some body styles tend to be better (or worse) for fingerstyle or plectrum, but I wouldn’t associate a body style with tunings. Dreadnaughts, for example, usually like to be driven by a plectrum and often don’t respond well to fingerpicking. The baroque body style is quite small, but capable of an amazingly big, full sound. In my experience, great for fingerstyle, boomy and muddy for plectral strumming.
Maple Street Guitars, in Atlanta, usually has a good selection of fine guitars. Call ahead and see what’s in the store and maybe it’ll be worth a day trip to check some out. They’ll let you go to a practice room and take as long as you need. Dream Guitars specializes in lone-luthier hand-made instruments. Asheville is a great town, too.
And, as Will said, many dealers will ship on approval.
# Posted on October 27th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Hello, Nigel here! Well if you don't mind a bit of a trip, one of my customers has a Model J in Dallas, Texas - a very friendly chap too - if you get in touch through my website, I could put the pair of you together. He also has a C.
I also have a Panamanian Rosewood Model J sitting on my sofa as I type. The fate of the guitar has not been decided yet, but Ian Stephenson says he will record a sound sample of it for me this week if he can get in the studio, I was thinking of sending it off for review.
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by NKForster
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Cool. I'd love to hear one of the model J's. I think it's a great idea to run the scale length a little longer for the lower tension strings.
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Bob... I never heard of a luthier optimizing for DADGAD or other tuning, but they can predict fairly reasonably how bright, dark, bassey, punchy, balanced, or bottom endy, etc. It will be moderately predictable with wood choice and bracing design and patterning, scalloping braces or not, what radius is used on the back etc. It can be surprisingly predictable.
I know two very brilliant luthiers in NJ who are not so famous, maybe make about eight - ten or so a year, been at it a long time... and some very high end players swear by their instruments.
http://didomenicoguitars.com/
http://foleyguitars.com/
give them a shout too, they love talking guitars and building. The Foleys are very deep sounding and powerful if you are doing DADGAD backup, strumming and want real presence they are great, they really kick like no other, a very special sound. The DiDomenicos... great, but more balanced. I am working with Tony Di right now a bit, learning more about building, and the guitars are about the most easy playing I ever used. This one is a little 00 size, but being build to be LOUD.
The DADGAD really is a short hop from standard tuning, but as I mentioned, I like my guitar action down as low as it can get withough buzzing. Even for backing. So when I tune just those few strings a teeny bit lower, I will be prone to buzzing a little. Most guitars are set higher action than mine, so it will unlikely be a problem.
The one thing that drives me a little mad is the low D, when you're at the 5th fret or higher you go sharp unless very lightly pressed...and even then some. It's another reason I like the action way low, it compensates for that a little.... as would a medium guage string there on the D, rather than the lights I use. But I don't like the medium... so... live with it. On the guitar I am working on now with Tony Di. I will try to address this..... but really, with all the Dropped D and DADGAD players out there, it seems it would be sensible to make a low D string for that purpose rather than use the Low E tuned down. Maybe that would work, but I don't really know enough about strings on that level.
There are the odd guitar shows here and there, if you google that. You'd be able to sample many and there are often small builders there along with the Martins, Taylors etc.
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by irisnevins
The Never Ending Expectations of Guitar Hobbyists...
Mr Goodin, there you go again!
I think you are missing the point!
In asking what guitar Paul McSherry uses is falling into the stupid trap again. His particular instrument is irrelevant to how he sounds, it'll all be in HIS fingers, his BRAIN. Even if you got hold of his actual box I'm sorry to report you would still sound like old you! And conversely, he would sound like him if he had a go on your (presumably unsatisfactory)guitar.
PLus the sound you hear from him will be very altered by the mysteries of the recording process/ sound system settings, mic or string selection and so forth.
The secret is to find your own style and sound. Copying is bound to end in dissappointment!
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
My partner plays mainly in DADGAD and discussed this with the luthier before he made the guitar. The guitars play really well in that tuning. Check out Nick Benjamin's guitars - they are out of this world:
www.benjaminguitars.co.uk
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by Mando Deb
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Krick,
You bring up a good point. I saw a recent DVD of Neil Young in performance where he discusses a particular Martin he was playing at the time. He talked about its pedigree, the famous musicians that had previously owned and played on it. When Neil played it, it still sounded just like Neil Young.
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by pbassnote
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Krick is so right. Just find something easy for you to play that sounds really nice to your ears. The right one will just say "pick me".
What kind of DADGAD playing are you doing.... some guitar models are more suited to heavy strumming, others for fingerstyle. I like fingerstyle on OMs or smaller bodies. I don't usually play dreadnaughts anymore, but if I know I will be playing with a loud piper or box and really have to kick the backing strongly, I might take out a dreadnaught. They hurt my shoulder too though, on the right....not a big person so that shoulder sticking in the air can start aching. Since starting to build (none for sale, keeping them thus far!) I am building ergonomic OMs with no bindings or sharp edges, and a little slope sanded in for under the right arm, so you don't get a pinched nerve. Very comfy. If you like something along those lines Tony DiDomenico can make one. He is also pretty reasonable on the prices. He makes jazz guitars, archtops too, and goes wild on them, major inlays etc. so those are pricey, but the dreads and OMs are reasonable.
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
“Bob... I never heard of a luthier optimizing for DADGAD or other tuning, but they can predict fairly reasonably how bright, dark, bassey, punchy, balanced, or bottom endy, etc. It will be moderately predictable with wood choice and bracing design and patterning, scalloping braces or not, what radius is used on the back etc. It can be surprisingly predictable.”
Sure. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I think we’re mostly in violent agreement that the best advice is to try as many instruments as possible not rely so much on endorsements.
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Sam Irwin Guitars are amazing. I have one and I set it up myself. Sam is based in Belfast and used to work for George Loudan. He has been making Guitars for years and is a fine craftsman and a gentleman! There was a recent BBC documentary made about him which featured performances from Arty McGlynn, Steve Cooney and Ed Boyd.
How that for an endorsement!
Sam Irwin Guitars email
irwin.sam@btinternet.com
# Posted on October 28th 2008 by ceolman
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
Bob.... I like violent agreement!!
And guitar shopping is great fun. I like a show where you can try a mess of them, and also maybe find a well broken in used high end hand made one at a bargain.
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
In my opinion, optimizing a guitar for DADGAD is not so much related to the sound of the instrument but rather, the intonation. At least one poster has mentioned the relative sharpness of the 6th string unless you fret extremely lightly so as not to bend the string below the fret. My Taylor GS stays in DADGAD all the time so I had a luthier cut a new saddle specifically for this reason, to optimize the intonation. It was well worth it. The intonation is greatly improved.
# Posted on November 11th 2008 by snapper
Re: A good DADGAD guitar
I know Lawrence Nyberg has some DADGAD guitars, it might worth giving a look, i have the bazar and it's wonderful.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Gontzo