There seem to be a lot of tunes where a single chord would be "correct" but very boring. Take the the A part of Banish Misfortune, for example. It seems like sticking with the D "power chord" through the whole thing is valid and provides some nice tension, but gets tiresome after a while. What are the strategies for finding some nice variations (say, like Danu do?)
I'm not looking for a bunch of chords for that particular tune - I'm looking to learn how people approach this sort of thing.
I don't agree with the idea that a single power chord would be correct for the A part of Banish Misfortune - just for a start.
The first half of the A part, yes, but then you get triplets that are definitely asking for a C chord, and if you think the best thing to do is to produce a nice tension by continuing to play a D against triplets crying out for a C then you have cloth ears ( In My Not So Humble Opinion ).
For many other tunes where, similarly, the main function of the melody seems to be playing around the melodic implications for a single chord, you, as an accompanist, have two functions; one is, while following the tune, to seize every opportunity offered to recognise and follow every implied chord change, even if it is for only one triplet, to reinforce the harmonic implications of the melody; and the second is rhythmic, and should not be overlooked or given less thought and effort.
With Banish being a Pipe tune, you would be looking at a D7 chord, with the melody making the 7th against the drones of D[ baz chords]
However I agree with Pete that a C chord is clearly there as well.
I probably have stuffing for brains as well because I'm not sure I know how to translate the following into real activity (though it sounds like just the ticket - I'll certainly vote for you!)
"seize every opportunity offered to recognise and follow every implied chord change, even if it is for only one triplet, to reinforce the harmonic implications of the melody; and the second is rhythmic, and should not be overlooked or given less thought and effort"
i have mucked about with this for a few minutes and
found myself playing these chords
(1st positon on a standard tuned guitar). i'm new to accompinament, so dont shoot me....
Dmaj with no F# . i suppose this is your power chord.
Cmaj with no top E, and with D note instead of C note on the 2nd string
Gmaj with a B bass note and a d note on the 2nd string
I will never forget the first time I heard a melody player drone a single note through the entire A part of a tune, and then jump into the melody the next time around, the tension that was built and then released. So playing a single chord throughout a whole part of a tune is definitely an option. Whole tune, no, but through an entire part, yes.
Chords that I would play during Banish are D, C, Am (maybe with a 7) and G, pretty standard options for a mixolydian tune. More chords some times through, less another time through. And while I wouldn't drone a single chord through the entire tune, I have often played a D note in every one of my chords throughout the entire tune, or a major portion of it. If the pure C chord shows up late in the tune, after hearing that chord against a droning D earlier in the tune, again, it gives the C chord a lot of punch when it appears. And while I don't banish F#s from my playing entirely, I do tend to damp that note more often than not.
Another thing I have learned from a bouzouki player who I play with frequently is that I don't need to play during every section of the tune, dropping out and back in adds interest, and allows the melody to be presented in a different light. Also, busier strumming in one section than another adds interest.
I was playing with a newbie accompanist a few months ago, and realized that I very rarely play the same section of a tune the same way two times in a row, which was making it difficult to follow me, so I deliberately forced myself to be more predictable.
And like irisnevins would say if she was here, don't be afraid to pick the notes of the melody from time to time, or add a countermelody or moving bass line for interest.
Don't know if that stuff makes my accompaniment sound like Donal Clancy (I wish), but it does offer some possibilities in making accompaniment more interesting.
I find playing only one chord a bit tiresome. There has to be something else to do. Throw in a few notes when you think you might want to change chords.
Even two chords doesn't seem enough most of the time. Sometimes I'll throw in a reative minor for no apparent reason.
When backing The Butterfly, which I usually play melody on, I'll play Em-D-Em-Bm then switch from open chords to closed chords up the neck for the B part.
On Banish, I'll play D-C then an Em-G transition thing. For some reason I think it sounds better on Mandolin than on guitar.
I wonder, has anyone else noticed chord progressions not sounding as good on different instruments?
As to 'follow every implied chord change'....when I was rehearsing with a new barn dance band some years ago, with a line-up that included accordion, rhythm guitar, and bass, rather than just play what chords seemed to fit to each of us individually, on every tune in our repertoire, we went through every tune, and whenever there was any dissent about the correct chord would not just rely on the ears, but actually read the notes through, and see which chords actually fitted, for a half-bar, even.
eg; C, E, and G; no-brainer, it's a C chord;
just E and G, then that could be an Eminor instead, depending on the context;
C, F, and E, in that order; the F is, as the middle note, the weakest of the three and may be regarded as a grace note in a triplet on a C chord; and so on.
By reading through all the tunes in this manner, we found you needed an Aminor chord on the 5th and 6th bars of the B part of The Rights of Man - well, in our setting, anyway.
Always remember that this tradition is essentially melodic; any chords we seem to feel should be used are essentially there already, left hanging in the air from the melody. We, whether keyboard or fretboard strummers, are latter-day arrivistas in this long tradition. We owe it to the music to do it right, and it's worth the effort.
I just had a go at it and a D modal with the pinky on the fifth fret on the high e string sliding down to a c chord with the pinky on the the third fret high e string sounds ok. Drop the low e to d and it sounds better,and double dropped d, DADGBD sounds the best.
Mandolin chords are in a different octave than most of the instruments, so some variations could be introduced there without sounding too dissonant, but in the same octave as the melody would produce a clash.
Huh?!!! sorry got interrupted there.. I was saying;
Absolutely. Chords from a guitar can be quite different to the chords for mandolin or Baz. Why, I dont know, but I have definitely noticed that a mandolin would have more options that sound right than a guitar.
When I accompany The Butterfly, I usually use E minor for the first and third parts and A minor for the second part. I have been playing it like this for several years and no one has objected (yet).
Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
This is just following on from this discussion, after a wee break:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10436/comments#comment216373
There seem to be a lot of tunes where a single chord would be "correct" but very boring. Take the the A part of Banish Misfortune, for example. It seems like sticking with the D "power chord" through the whole thing is valid and provides some nice tension, but gets tiresome after a while. What are the strategies for finding some nice variations (say, like Danu do?)
I'm not looking for a bunch of chords for that particular tune - I'm looking to learn how people approach this sort of thing.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by grego
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
I don't agree with the idea that a single power chord would be correct for the A part of Banish Misfortune - just for a start.
The first half of the A part, yes, but then you get triplets that are definitely asking for a C chord, and if you think the best thing to do is to produce a nice tension by continuing to play a D against triplets crying out for a C then you have cloth ears ( In My Not So Humble Opinion ).
For many other tunes where, similarly, the main function of the melody seems to be playing around the melodic implications for a single chord, you, as an accompanist, have two functions; one is, while following the tune, to seize every opportunity offered to recognise and follow every implied chord change, even if it is for only one triplet, to reinforce the harmonic implications of the melody; and the second is rhythmic, and should not be overlooked or given less thought and effort.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
With Banish Misfortune, I do use D Major a lot but I also use C Major and A Minor some as well.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
With Banish being a Pipe tune, you would be looking at a D7 chord, with the melody making the 7th against the drones of D[ baz chords]
However I agree with Pete that a C chord is clearly there as well.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Gurnsey: "cloth ears" - ouch.
I probably have stuffing for brains as well because I'm not sure I know how to translate the following into real activity (though it sounds like just the ticket - I'll certainly vote for you!)
"seize every opportunity offered to recognise and follow every implied chord change, even if it is for only one triplet, to reinforce the harmonic implications of the melody; and the second is rhythmic, and should not be overlooked or given less thought and effort"
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by grego
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
D throughout is a bit much i fear.
i have mucked about with this for a few minutes and
found myself playing these chords
(1st positon on a standard tuned guitar). i'm new to accompinament, so dont shoot me....
Dmaj with no F# . i suppose this is your power chord.
Cmaj with no top E, and with D note instead of C note on the 2nd string
Gmaj with a B bass note and a d note on the 2nd string
and er,
Am7
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by blimp
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Those aren't exactly the chords which I use to accompany Banish Misfortune but I don't play guitar or bouzouki.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
I will never forget the first time I heard a melody player drone a single note through the entire A part of a tune, and then jump into the melody the next time around, the tension that was built and then released. So playing a single chord throughout a whole part of a tune is definitely an option. Whole tune, no, but through an entire part, yes.
Chords that I would play during Banish are D, C, Am (maybe with a 7) and G, pretty standard options for a mixolydian tune. More chords some times through, less another time through. And while I wouldn't drone a single chord through the entire tune, I have often played a D note in every one of my chords throughout the entire tune, or a major portion of it. If the pure C chord shows up late in the tune, after hearing that chord against a droning D earlier in the tune, again, it gives the C chord a lot of punch when it appears. And while I don't banish F#s from my playing entirely, I do tend to damp that note more often than not.
Another thing I have learned from a bouzouki player who I play with frequently is that I don't need to play during every section of the tune, dropping out and back in adds interest, and allows the melody to be presented in a different light. Also, busier strumming in one section than another adds interest.
I was playing with a newbie accompanist a few months ago, and realized that I very rarely play the same section of a tune the same way two times in a row, which was making it difficult to follow me, so I deliberately forced myself to be more predictable.
And like irisnevins would say if she was here, don't be afraid to pick the notes of the melody from time to time, or add a countermelody or moving bass line for interest.
Don't know if that stuff makes my accompaniment sound like Donal Clancy (I wish), but it does offer some possibilities in making accompaniment more interesting.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Good post Mr Al, i will experiment with this when its safe to wake up my neighbours.
Blimp
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by blimp
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
I find playing only one chord a bit tiresome. There has to be something else to do. Throw in a few notes when you think you might want to change chords.
Even two chords doesn't seem enough most of the time. Sometimes I'll throw in a reative minor for no apparent reason.
When backing The Butterfly, which I usually play melody on, I'll play Em-D-Em-Bm then switch from open chords to closed chords up the neck for the B part.
On Banish, I'll play D-C then an Em-G transition thing. For some reason I think it sounds better on Mandolin than on guitar.
I wonder, has anyone else noticed chord progressions not sounding as good on different instruments?
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by CleverName
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
As to 'follow every implied chord change'....when I was rehearsing with a new barn dance band some years ago, with a line-up that included accordion, rhythm guitar, and bass, rather than just play what chords seemed to fit to each of us individually, on every tune in our repertoire, we went through every tune, and whenever there was any dissent about the correct chord would not just rely on the ears, but actually read the notes through, and see which chords actually fitted, for a half-bar, even.
eg; C, E, and G; no-brainer, it's a C chord;
just E and G, then that could be an Eminor instead, depending on the context;
C, F, and E, in that order; the F is, as the middle note, the weakest of the three and may be regarded as a grace note in a triplet on a C chord; and so on.
By reading through all the tunes in this manner, we found you needed an Aminor chord on the 5th and 6th bars of the B part of The Rights of Man - well, in our setting, anyway.
Always remember that this tradition is essentially melodic; any chords we seem to feel should be used are essentially there already, left hanging in the air from the melody. We, whether keyboard or fretboard strummers, are latter-day arrivistas in this long tradition. We owe it to the music to do it right, and it's worth the effort.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Aminor chord....5th bar only..
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
I just had a go at it and a D modal with the pinky on the fifth fret on the high e string sliding down to a c chord with the pinky on the the third fret high e string sounds ok. Drop the low e to d and it sounds better,and double dropped d, DADGBD sounds the best.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by dafydd
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Mandolin chords are in a different octave than most of the instruments, so some variations could be introduced there without sounding too dissonant, but in the same octave as the melody would produce a clash.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Thanks for the responses, folks.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by grego
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
<< I wonder, has anyone else noticed chord progressions not sounding as good on different instruments?>>
Absolutely. Chords from a guitar can be q
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
Huh?!!! sorry got interrupted there.. I was saying;
Absolutely. Chords from a guitar can be quite different to the chords for mandolin or Baz. Why, I dont know, but I have definitely noticed that a mandolin would have more options that sound right than a guitar.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Banish Bouzouki (a chord question)
When I accompany The Butterfly, I usually use E minor for the first and third parts and A minor for the second part. I have been playing it like this for several years and no one has objected (yet).
# Posted on October 24th 2008 by fauxcelt