I've recently started back playing the fiddle, and bought it into a music shop for a check up (its been a while since its seen the light of day). The man in the shop told me that I need a new bow and I havent got a clue where to go, what bow to get, whether to get the bow re haired (if thats the right terminology) ?? If anyone could advise me or point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.
Where're you from, Danielle? If you're from the UK or Ireland I might be able to help (with info, that is). If you're from the US, I wouldn't have a clue where to go ... someone else will, though.
If you like this bow it could well be that it just needs re-hairing. Does the bow look a bit short of hair?! If the bow lacks "bite" or "grip," that can also mean a re-hair needed. If you're not sure yourself, is there anyone around who's opinion you can get, maybe try their bow? (Ideally someone who isn't trying to sell you anything.)
Bows are as individual as fiddles. There's no way anyone can say "an XZX will be perfect for you." If at all possible the best way is to go to a shop where you can try a bunch of different bows. One of the good things about that method that a couple of friends of mine have found that they ended up paying less than they expected, rather than having to decide on a "such and such" on the grounds that since it was a lot of money it had to be good!
... I just made enquiries about getting some bows rehaired ... and the answer I got was that unless the bow was expensive or had sentimental value, buy a new bow. Cost of rehairing in Oz $120 and you can buy a new carbon fibre bow (haired, of course) for around the same price ... it seems bows have become disposable and not worth the effort to rehair (in Oz in any case). So it might depend on the value of your bow to you, whether you want it rehaired or not, and maybe rehairing is cheaper and more available where you are. Good luck anyway, and with the return to playing the fiddle. Good on ya!
Did he say why you need a new bow? Is the stick warped? If it is, then you definitely need a new bow. If the stick is straight, then you probably need it re-haired, which can be done at any reputable violin shop.
Buying a bow can be a long process; it's all subjective. Last time I bought a bow, I tried about 20 bows in the shop over the course of 3 hours, and took the top 4 home with me for a week. Some bows play well on your instrument, others don't. What one person likes in a bow, you may hate. If you want to buy a new bow, have a price range in mind, and be prepared to test drive a lot of bows. If you liked your old bow, bring it in to the shop with you, and have the salesperson or luthier find similar bows for you to try. If you hated it, tell them what you didn't like about it (weight, flexibility, balance, etc) and they'll find something else.
If you want names, I have two different bows which I play regularly, a lower-range Jeandel, and a Finkel Conbrio carbon-fiber hybrid. The Jeandel is lighter in weight, and I like it for long gigs or lots of fast bowing, and the Conbrio is heavier and more balanced over all, and it plays really nicely with my fiddle - I play with this one, usually. Yamaha also makes a really nice carbon-fiber bow series; easy to play, and they won't break the bank.
If you are anywhere in the So. Michigan area, Shar Music has a really nice selection and they let you take up to 4 bows out on trial.
Clear Drops- was someone taking the pi##? I never pay more than about $40 US for a rehairing, and it usually needs redoing about once or twice a year, depending on how much playing you do. If you find a bow you like, why keep replacing it? You'd be much better off saving your money for the best bow you can afford, it can make a great deal of difference in how well your fiddle plays and sounds.
That's very true, Murph; get the best that's affordable. It's useful to think of the fiddle and bow as a 50/50 combination - the bow really does contribute at least that much to the tone and the playing, to the extent that a good player might change the instrument but almost never the bow. The bow can be thought of as an extension of the player; the instrument doesn't quite come into that category.
If you hear great violinists (usually from the classical side) being interviewed on radio they'll go on and on about their wonderful old fiddle worth 6 figures or more - but never once mention their top-class bow, without which said wonderful old fiddle wouldn't sound quite so wonderful (but still pretty good by most standards, nevertheless).
(Fyi, I understand that Joshua Bell uses a bow that once belonged to Heifetz.)
I've heard that there is bow maker currently investigating the possibilities of a composite bow - a wood bow with a carbon-fibre rod insert. A prototype is apparently being trialled by a local professional violinist.
"a good player might change the instrument but almost never the bow"
I don't agree, Trevor. I was playing about with a couple of my fiddles yesterday. I have a few 'favourite' bows and tried my eighteenth century English fiddle with the same bow with which I normally play my modern (2004) fiddle. The bow I play my modern fiddle with just, and which makes a lovely sound, made a scratchy sound on the old English fiddle, and the bow which draws such a lovely sound out of the old English fiddle would hardly draw a sound at all out of the modern one.
With bows "get the best you can afford" has to be split into two parts. It doesn't mean "pay as much as you can and that will be the best."
You have to find the best bow for your fiddle you can. That may mean you pay more or less than you expect. If you can't afford it, you can't get it, but spending more won't necessarily mean better.
bb ... Sydney might be different (I hope for your sake it is) ... and the guy I enquired of clearly didn't want to rehair bows ... and, of course, I HAVE to ship 'em to get rehaired. If you take them in, things might be entirely different ... but my new bow is top of the range Yamaha carbon fibre ... I couldn't try before I bought ... but I really really love it ... its the one fer me. It was more expensive than anything else I've got in me fiddling kit and I had to wait a month for it to come from America ... but it was well worth the wait.
I was in a fiddle shop at the weekend. Of course, I couldn't resist trying all sorts of fiddles ... But the thing that I *really* didn't want to put down was the bow they leant me. They had brought 3 bows in for me to try with the various fiddles, but I just picked the one up straight away and would happily have walked off with it.
Ben, that wouldn't have been a John Stagg bow, would it? It's in his price range (not "quite" at the top, though).
I take your point about my previous post, but for simplicity I was thinking of the straightforward case of someone with one fiddle and just one bow. But as we know, the more experienced the player the more likely he (or she) is to have acquired more than one (really good) bow and probably more than one fiddle, and will tend, as you do, to allocate a particular bow to a particular fiddle, or even for the type of music being played. For instance, those who know about these things say that a Transitional bow is far more suitable for playing 18th/early 19th music(and traditional folk music, perhaps?) than our modern design bow.
Top of the line bow rehair here by a competent luthier is $80....even a sh*te bow will sound good [or somewhat decent] with an excellent rehair. Now having said that you can buy quite decent carbo bows for $150-200 and of course much more.
A warped bow CAN most definitely be fixed by a competent luthier...it involves warming the wood up over a bunsen burner etc until it sets straight. It can be done....soooooo...if the bow is a good one to begin with and/or a favourite and/or sounds good with your particular fiddle it IS worth having it straightened and rehaired. Niether is a big deal if you live in a city where violin shops proliferate.
But don't take it on faith that you have to trash the bow. You don't. Of couse if it's more expensive to fix than buying a half decent new one [carbon or wood] you might think twice. There are quite nice wood bows on the market from 250-500 Canadian for instance.
Yes, Trevor, different bows even for different types of music. Don't know about transitional bows, but I've tried a baroque bow on a really delicate old fiddle, and it was fantastic for jigs 'n' reels 'n' stuff. I should move over to them altogether, I sometimes think, but I can't KEEP filling the house with more and more instruments ...
I played on very nice (but very expensive one) while in college, and purchased a more affordable one of the same type after graduating. They're lovely to play with: balanced through and through, no wobble or shake, still flexible enough through the stick for spiccato, makes tricky bow technique much easier.
A violinist may wax poetic about his or her violin on the radio because the average listener probably knows nothing about bows, and probably doesn't care, but knows that old violins tend to sound good, like Strads. I play a very old fiddle and I cannot tell you how many times I've been asked if it's a Strad.
"That's a fine fiddle you've got there. How old is it?"
"Oh, probably around 200 years, but I'm not sure."
"Is it a Strad?"
(To sessioners) "Hey folks, how about a few tunes?"
But any violinist or fiddler worth their salt knows to buy a good bow.
I believe the bow-maker I referred to is putting his own thoughts and ideas into his hybrid bow project. As with anything to do with musical instruments the devil is most certainly in the detail.
This particular bow-maker started off as an engineer designing wooden racing boats (so he would know an awful lot about structures and the properties of wood), spent some years as an apprentice learning the craft of bow-making, and eventually set up his own business which is well established and internationally known.
i have a carbon bow which i got in chicago quite cheaply and i think it gives off great volume. totally recommended. paul bradley re-hairs bows in galway for a good price.
Do you have a contact number or e-mail or something for paul bradley...or would he be well known musically in the area (as you can guess im pretty new to this)
Fiddle Bows...
Fiddle Bows...
I've recently started back playing the fiddle, and bought it into a music shop for a check up (its been a while since its seen the light of day). The man in the shop told me that I need a new bow and I havent got a clue where to go, what bow to get, whether to get the bow re haired (if thats the right terminology) ?? If anyone could advise me or point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.
Danielle
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by She moved through the fair
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Where're you from, Danielle? If you're from the UK or Ireland I might be able to help (with info, that is). If you're from the US, I wouldn't have a clue where to go ... someone else will, though.
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
If you like this bow it could well be that it just needs re-hairing. Does the bow look a bit short of hair?! If the bow lacks "bite" or "grip," that can also mean a re-hair needed. If you're not sure yourself, is there anyone around who's opinion you can get, maybe try their bow? (Ideally someone who isn't trying to sell you anything.)
Bows are as individual as fiddles. There's no way anyone can say "an XZX will be perfect for you." If at all possible the best way is to go to a shop where you can try a bunch of different bows. One of the good things about that method that a couple of friends of mine have found that they ended up paying less than they expected, rather than having to decide on a "such and such" on the grounds that since it was a lot of money it had to be good!
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Fiddle Bows...
... I just made enquiries about getting some bows rehaired ... and the answer I got was that unless the bow was expensive or had sentimental value, buy a new bow. Cost of rehairing in Oz $120 and you can buy a new carbon fibre bow (haired, of course) for around the same price ... it seems bows have become disposable and not worth the effort to rehair (in Oz in any case). So it might depend on the value of your bow to you, whether you want it rehaired or not, and maybe rehairing is cheaper and more available where you are. Good luck anyway, and with the return to playing the fiddle. Good on ya!
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Did he say why you need a new bow? Is the stick warped? If it is, then you definitely need a new bow. If the stick is straight, then you probably need it re-haired, which can be done at any reputable violin shop.
Buying a bow can be a long process; it's all subjective. Last time I bought a bow, I tried about 20 bows in the shop over the course of 3 hours, and took the top 4 home with me for a week. Some bows play well on your instrument, others don't. What one person likes in a bow, you may hate. If you want to buy a new bow, have a price range in mind, and be prepared to test drive a lot of bows. If you liked your old bow, bring it in to the shop with you, and have the salesperson or luthier find similar bows for you to try. If you hated it, tell them what you didn't like about it (weight, flexibility, balance, etc) and they'll find something else.
If you want names, I have two different bows which I play regularly, a lower-range Jeandel, and a Finkel Conbrio carbon-fiber hybrid. The Jeandel is lighter in weight, and I like it for long gigs or lots of fast bowing, and the Conbrio is heavier and more balanced over all, and it plays really nicely with my fiddle - I play with this one, usually. Yamaha also makes a really nice carbon-fiber bow series; easy to play, and they won't break the bank.
If you are anywhere in the So. Michigan area, Shar Music has a really nice selection and they let you take up to 4 bows out on trial.
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by meredithrachael
Re: Fiddle Bows...
God - wish I had of known that on thurs - I just put two bows in to be rehaired and they are both cr*p
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Clear Drops- was someone taking the pi##? I never pay more than about $40 US for a rehairing, and it usually needs redoing about once or twice a year, depending on how much playing you do. If you find a bow you like, why keep replacing it? You'd be much better off saving your money for the best bow you can afford, it can make a great deal of difference in how well your fiddle plays and sounds.
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by Murph
Re: Fiddle Bows...
That's very true, Murph; get the best that's affordable. It's useful to think of the fiddle and bow as a 50/50 combination - the bow really does contribute at least that much to the tone and the playing, to the extent that a good player might change the instrument but almost never the bow. The bow can be thought of as an extension of the player; the instrument doesn't quite come into that category.
If you hear great violinists (usually from the classical side) being interviewed on radio they'll go on and on about their wonderful old fiddle worth 6 figures or more - but never once mention their top-class bow, without which said wonderful old fiddle wouldn't sound quite so wonderful (but still pretty good by most standards, nevertheless).
(Fyi, I understand that Joshua Bell uses a bow that once belonged to Heifetz.)
I've heard that there is bow maker currently investigating the possibilities of a composite bow - a wood bow with a carbon-fibre rod insert. A prototype is apparently being trialled by a local professional violinist.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Bows...
"a good player might change the instrument but almost never the bow"
I don't agree, Trevor. I was playing about with a couple of my fiddles yesterday. I have a few 'favourite' bows and tried my eighteenth century English fiddle with the same bow with which I normally play my modern (2004) fiddle. The bow I play my modern fiddle with just, and which makes a lovely sound, made a scratchy sound on the old English fiddle, and the bow which draws such a lovely sound out of the old English fiddle would hardly draw a sound at all out of the modern one.
The bow has to match the fiddle.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
With bows "get the best you can afford" has to be split into two parts. It doesn't mean "pay as much as you can and that will be the best."
You have to find the best bow for your fiddle you can. That may mean you pay more or less than you expect. If you can't afford it, you can't get it, but spending more won't necessarily mean better.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Fiddle Bows...
bb ... Sydney might be different (I hope for your sake it is) ... and the guy I enquired of clearly didn't want to rehair bows ... and, of course, I HAVE to ship 'em to get rehaired. If you take them in, things might be entirely different ... but my new bow is top of the range Yamaha carbon fibre ... I couldn't try before I bought ... but I really really love it ... its the one fer me. It was more expensive than anything else I've got in me fiddling kit and I had to wait a month for it to come from America ... but it was well worth the wait.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle Bows...
I was in a fiddle shop at the weekend. Of course, I couldn't resist trying all sorts of fiddles ... But the thing that I *really* didn't want to put down was the bow they leant me. They had brought 3 bows in for me to try with the various fiddles, but I just picked the one up straight away and would happily have walked off with it.
I did ask the price ... £2,500. Sterling.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Crikey! That's $6,264.31 in Aussie dollars!!!!! Yikes!
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Yeah ... I didn't buy it ... Don't suppose I could get up a subscription?
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Ben, that wouldn't have been a John Stagg bow, would it? It's in his price range (not "quite" at the top, though).
I take your point about my previous post, but for simplicity I was thinking of the straightforward case of someone with one fiddle and just one bow. But as we know, the more experienced the player the more likely he (or she) is to have acquired more than one (really good) bow and probably more than one fiddle, and will tend, as you do, to allocate a particular bow to a particular fiddle, or even for the type of music being played. For instance, those who know about these things say that a Transitional bow is far more suitable for playing 18th/early 19th music(and traditional folk music, perhaps?) than our modern design bow.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Top of the line bow rehair here by a competent luthier is $80....even a sh*te bow will sound good [or somewhat decent] with an excellent rehair. Now having said that you can buy quite decent carbo bows for $150-200 and of course much more.
A warped bow CAN most definitely be fixed by a competent luthier...it involves warming the wood up over a bunsen burner etc until it sets straight. It can be done....soooooo...if the bow is a good one to begin with and/or a favourite and/or sounds good with your particular fiddle it IS worth having it straightened and rehaired. Niether is a big deal if you live in a city where violin shops proliferate.
But don't take it on faith that you have to trash the bow. You don't. Of couse if it's more expensive to fix than buying a half decent new one [carbon or wood] you might think twice. There are quite nice wood bows on the market from 250-500 Canadian for instance.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Yes, Trevor, different bows even for different types of music. Don't know about transitional bows, but I've tried a baroque bow on a really delicate old fiddle, and it was fantastic for jigs 'n' reels 'n' stuff. I should move over to them altogether, I sometimes think, but I can't KEEP filling the house with more and more instruments ...
... no, I couldn't possbily SELL any ...
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Lazyhound - those hybird bows already exist.
http://www.finkel-bows.ch/hybrid.htm
I played on very nice (but very expensive one) while in college, and purchased a more affordable one of the same type after graduating. They're lovely to play with: balanced through and through, no wobble or shake, still flexible enough through the stick for spiccato, makes tricky bow technique much easier.
A violinist may wax poetic about his or her violin on the radio because the average listener probably knows nothing about bows, and probably doesn't care, but knows that old violins tend to sound good, like Strads. I play a very old fiddle and I cannot tell you how many times I've been asked if it's a Strad.
"That's a fine fiddle you've got there. How old is it?"
"Oh, probably around 200 years, but I'm not sure."
"Is it a Strad?"
(To sessioners) "Hey folks, how about a few tunes?"
But any violinist or fiddler worth their salt knows to buy a good bow.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by meredithrachael
Re: Fiddle Bows...
I believe the bow-maker I referred to is putting his own thoughts and ideas into his hybrid bow project. As with anything to do with musical instruments the devil is most certainly in the detail.
This particular bow-maker started off as an engineer designing wooden racing boats (so he would know an awful lot about structures and the properties of wood), spent some years as an apprentice learning the craft of bow-making, and eventually set up his own business which is well established and internationally known.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Bows...
thank you very much for all your replies, i've not had a chance to read them all as of yet, i'm working my way through
No the bow isnt warped, and the hair isnt minimal.
It might be me but the sound is scratchy... never used to be as bad.
i'm from the uk, wasnt sure whether to go to a music shop or online and get one shipped??
I dont want to spent ALOT of money but at the same time want to get a decent enough bow!!
Danielle
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by She moved through the fair
Re: Fiddle Bows...
i have a carbon bow which i got in chicago quite cheaply and i think it gives off great volume. totally recommended. paul bradley re-hairs bows in galway for a good price.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by pamplemousse
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Personally I would never get a bow online. I'd want to try them out. But then, apart from anything, I'm prejudiced in favour of wood bows.
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fiddle Bows...
... some don't have the luxury
... do you HAVE ta rub it in 
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle Bows...
".. no, I couldn't possbily SELL any ..." (benhall.1)
Give away, then?
# Posted on October 21st 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Bows...
Do you have a contact number or e-mail or something for paul bradley...or would he be well known musically in the area (as you can guess im pretty new to this)
Danielle
# Posted on October 21st 2008 by She moved through the fair