Its not a thing we discuss very much as we're all immortal and invincible but just occasionaly in a session the conversation might go round to "sorry lads, I'm in bits tonight, my arm/leg/thumb etc. is'nt the best" and then all the common complaints we just do'nt talk about start coming out. You know, 'flute players neck',' box players shoulder', 'fiddle and banjo forearm, and other associated RSI type problems.
What are your own problems in this department and do you have any miraculous cures or exercise routines?
And yes, I know we should stretch and limber up before playing like the fine athletes we are but come on, how many of us actually do that?
you´re right, it´s a topic lots of musicians shy away from, except the ones who are working in classical music - especially the violinists seem to be talking about different types of ailments all the time. When playing the tenor banjo, I experienced - after long practice sessions - cramps in the elbow of my fretting arm, and later pains that seemed to be moving up my right arm to the shoulder, to the point that I actually had to stop playing. This came as a surprise because, on the one hand, I do lots of sports, and on the other hand had been playing the 5string for years without experiencing anything like that. Getting old(er) after all ? Took up the mandolin once again, and never had any problems... I guess it MUST be age catching up, or announcing itself, or whatever...
On a slightly more serious note, Cindy Pfalzer at the University of Michigan Flint did a huge study a few years back where we interviewed about 300 piano performers and teachers. Cindy's doctorate is in physical therapy. As a result of the study they have been developing a variety of treatments for repetative use injuries. If you suffer from such and need additional information you can contact Cindy through the UofM website. I understand they were interested in extending the study.
I'd played hardcore punk and psycobilly almost my entire life.I had a stroke at the age of thirty two. Blew out my left hand. Couldn't move it at all. Guitar playing was over. A few months prior my sister had given me a copy of the 'Chieftains Live' and I'd been listening to it non stop. On a whim I baught a tin whistle and gave it a try as the movements seemed'smaller' than what was needed for guitar. Paddy Maloney I will never be, but striving to play simple things on the whistle acted as therepy and I've steadily improved so that now I play whistle, tenor banjo and (simple)guitar. I don't, and never will have, the snap and speed on some of the ornamentation but I don't care I'm happy to be playing music again.
Sorry.... but really do have permenant low level "Guitar-shoulder" right shoulder from playing big guitars all my life... went down to low level after moving to smaller bodied ones with no binding or sharp edges.
This is a serious topic. My wife, a bassoonist, had to give up playing because of something called TMJ, an ailment in which the jaw becomes misaligned. Massachusetts General Hospital has a state-of-the-art clinic which addresses the needs of musicians and their many ailments.
Clawed by cat while playing Scottish smallpipes.
Struck in face by fiddle string when tailpiece split.
;-P
The usual assaults and batteries from lovers of good music, which I fortuneately have survived, undaunted.
Seriously, I have suffered numerous strains to muscle and connective tissue, all of them linkable to improper technique and that includes taking time to "warm up", folks. The more, and harder you play, the more important proper self-care becomes.
(There have been other discussions on this topic here, if I recall, from people with real horror stories, so my adventures are really minor by comparison.)
Time will eventually wear out anything, but we can fight the relentless march of time with a bit of moderation and common sense. Preventative medicine is usually cheaper, too.
Totally, this is really important. Perhaps not so much for the young-uns, but as time progresses it's very important.
Fiddle in particular is horrendous on the ergonomics. Just to play the thing twists you into a pretzel. It's so important to remain relaxed and stop to stretch periodically.
Many of us work on computers 9-5, and then play fiddle for fun. We call this the carpal tunnel double-whammy. I stretch while working and playing, and I always remind myself while I'm doing both to relax.
A few weeks ago I was cycling with my guitar strapped to my back. The top of the case sticks out above my head when I do this. I passed under a tree with a low hanging branch. You can guess the rest...
Seriously, I stopped playing guitar and switched to banjo 5 years ago due to serious pain in the rotor cuff of my left arm.
Then due to over-practice, everything from my wrist to my neck would hurt off and on. Now, with limited practice, I can play 2-3 gigs a week without too much strain.
Every serious musician I know complains about something once in a while..
I spent years suffering in sessions because of pointless tensing up. I'd wake up the next day with a stiff neck and headache. I've psyched myself out of this and now I play much better and enjoy myself much more. The only remaining problem is severe stinging pain and watering eyes, accompanied by vile expletives, resulting from a moustache hair caught in the harmonica cover plates.
broken little finger, bends the wrong way, ie, towards the palm, and is a centimetre shorter than my rh pinky.
pinky and ring - nerve damage from the elbow hitting something - probably scaffolding - tests showed the impulses worked were at half speed compared to the right hand. It took only two months before my playing compensated... the brain sends the signal that wee tad earlier you know...
Right hand:
Recently badly broken ring finger. Can barely bend it properly. Thankfully not a critical bowing finger.
Thumb: collapsing endjoint. From striking the lighter I reckon.
Point is, you play as well as you can, and you adapt to your infirmities! THAT IS THE TRADITIONAL WAY! (cough). Any pandering to these paltry "ailments" is just namby pamby classical playing influence, and should be rightly shunned. How else did the greats get their wonderful and idiosyncratic sound? By injury due to hard physical labour, that's right ye bunch of overfed and sedentary self-obsessed plonkers!
ALERT: All the above is tongue in cheek. Well, it would be, but I accidentally bit my tongue off recently, and as for my cheek, I fed it to the dog because I forgot to buy dogfood.
Apart from the p-taking I agree with ol' mutatis above - you work round them. The same with instruments that seem to have built-in liabilities. This is some of what gives the music its flavour. An instrument that can do anything, easily, doesn't give of itself.
Alternatively, I've heard some people, particularly a previously very tense fiddler, speak highly of the Alexander Technique.
PS How can I get rid of the americanisation on my spellcheck ? It didn't think I could spell flavour correctly ?
I've previously mentioned sawing my left thumb early this summer. It was certainly music-related as I was sawing down wood for a mandola-soundboard. Played our regular session two days later with the thumb all bandaged up, the night before going into plastic surgery to have the tendon repaired ( nobody told me not to play BEFORE the operation ).....
Once dropped a very large speaker onto my right hand while setting up on a high stage for a gig - had staggered to the stage, dropped the speaker, then it toppled over onto the hand that was supporting me as I leant on the stage getting my breath back. Couldn't find a cold tap that actually ran cold to hold the fingers under, had to play the gig plectrum style instead of my more usual fingerpicking for that band. The ring on the third finger is still bent 30 years + later.
Extra-specially sour sessions leave me with stiff and sore muscles; while beautiful sessions seem to get the endorphens flowing through my system. Just one more anecdotal argument against bad music, and for good music.
All that is true - a good session leaves you invigorated, much like a good sing ( just don't mix them ).
And don't forget the endolphins - pleasurable hormones triggered by swimming with ceteceans.
I'm just recovering from glandular fever (mono) and it was directly caused by playing the accordion, let your imagination fill in the inbetween stages.
Was it a piano accordion? If so that's easy - men can't keep themselves away from girls who play piano accordion. Sorry to hear about your illness though.
The thumb is fully functional. But I recently went back to the other half of the wedge of wood, to saw it through similarly, and I was looking at the thumb-scar the whole time. Once bitten......
But I've lost the good summer weather so I must crack on in the open-air workshop.
I don't know of any pipers (Highland) who suffer from rheumatism in their fingers, but maybe that's coincidence. I know two though who had to give up when their teeth came out. One chap even tried a rubber mouthpiece. That was a hoot. But not for him of course. He was the same inventive genius who made a bag out of an inner tube. He had to stop blowing two bars before the end of the tune. And he got a chest infection.
I'm looking for the words to a ballad I've heard sung around Dublin called "The Portuguese" - its about a man who looses his mot to the portuguese man after her plies her with baby cham.
Many Thanks,
Paddy
The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Just thought I'd bring this one up.
Its not a thing we discuss very much as we're all immortal and invincible but just occasionaly in a session the conversation might go round to "sorry lads, I'm in bits tonight, my arm/leg/thumb etc. is'nt the best" and then all the common complaints we just do'nt talk about start coming out. You know, 'flute players neck',' box players shoulder', 'fiddle and banjo forearm, and other associated RSI type problems.
What are your own problems in this department and do you have any miraculous cures or exercise routines?
And yes, I know we should stretch and limber up before playing like the fine athletes we are but come on, how many of us actually do that?
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by banjoburger
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Ingrowing tone-ring?
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Cairdiniac arrest for me
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Dodgy knees from too many dingle regata's
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
STD from merrily kissing the Quaker's wife
similar for the congress
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Not taboo at all. Just type "injuries" into the discussion search function and you'll see a bunch of past threads on this subject.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
drunkidis cantplayanoteabis often rears it's ugly head late on friday or saturday night. I've yet to find a cure.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
you´re right, it´s a topic lots of musicians shy away from, except the ones who are working in classical music - especially the violinists seem to be talking about different types of ailments all the time. When playing the tenor banjo, I experienced - after long practice sessions - cramps in the elbow of my fretting arm, and later pains that seemed to be moving up my right arm to the shoulder, to the point that I actually had to stop playing. This came as a surprise because, on the one hand, I do lots of sports, and on the other hand had been playing the 5string for years without experiencing anything like that. Getting old(er) after all ? Took up the mandolin once again, and never had any problems... I guess it MUST be age catching up, or announcing itself, or whatever...
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by alexweger
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
On a slightly more serious note, Cindy Pfalzer at the University of Michigan Flint did a huge study a few years back where we interviewed about 300 piano performers and teachers. Cindy's doctorate is in physical therapy. As a result of the study they have been developing a variety of treatments for repetative use injuries. If you suffer from such and need additional information you can contact Cindy through the UofM website. I understand they were interested in extending the study.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by dlkes
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I'd played hardcore punk and psycobilly almost my entire life.I had a stroke at the age of thirty two. Blew out my left hand. Couldn't move it at all. Guitar playing was over. A few months prior my sister had given me a copy of the 'Chieftains Live' and I'd been listening to it non stop. On a whim I baught a tin whistle and gave it a try as the movements seemed'smaller' than what was needed for guitar. Paddy Maloney I will never be, but striving to play simple things on the whistle acted as therepy and I've steadily improved so that now I play whistle, tenor banjo and (simple)guitar. I don't, and never will have, the snap and speed on some of the ornamentation but I don't care I'm happy to be playing music again.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by shanty
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I "Craic-ed" a rib falling over the harp.
Sorry.... but really do have permenant low level "Guitar-shoulder" right shoulder from playing big guitars all my life... went down to low level after moving to smaller bodied ones with no binding or sharp edges.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Fair play to ya shanty, and thanks for the words.
and thank god you will never be Paddy Moloney!
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by banjoburger
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
No offense to Paddy, sorry man.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by banjoburger
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
This is a serious topic. My wife, a bassoonist, had to give up playing because of something called TMJ, an ailment in which the jaw becomes misaligned. Massachusetts General Hospital has a state-of-the-art clinic which addresses the needs of musicians and their many ailments.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Clawed by cat while playing Scottish smallpipes.
Struck in face by fiddle string when tailpiece split.
;-P
The usual assaults and batteries from lovers of good music, which I fortuneately have survived, undaunted.
Seriously, I have suffered numerous strains to muscle and connective tissue, all of them linkable to improper technique and that includes taking time to "warm up", folks. The more, and harder you play, the more important proper self-care becomes.
(There have been other discussions on this topic here, if I recall, from people with real horror stories, so my adventures are really minor by comparison.)
Time will eventually wear out anything, but we can fight the relentless march of time with a bit of moderation and common sense. Preventative medicine is usually cheaper, too.
May our years of playing be long and happy!!
Good luck, all.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Piece
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Totally, this is really important. Perhaps not so much for the young-uns, but as time progresses it's very important.
Fiddle in particular is horrendous on the ergonomics. Just to play the thing twists you into a pretzel. It's so important to remain relaxed and stop to stretch periodically.
Many of us work on computers 9-5, and then play fiddle for fun. We call this the carpal tunnel double-whammy. I stretch while working and playing, and I always remind myself while I'm doing both to relax.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
A few weeks ago I was cycling with my guitar strapped to my back. The top of the case sticks out above my head when I do this. I passed under a tree with a low hanging branch. You can guess the rest...
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by McDermott
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I suffer from genital elephantitis
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Falling of the chair drunk was a popular ailment among some of musicians that I played with in the past.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Skip, it must be a bitch to walk.....
Seriously, I stopped playing guitar and switched to banjo 5 years ago due to serious pain in the rotor cuff of my left arm.
Then due to over-practice, everything from my wrist to my neck would hurt off and on. Now, with limited practice, I can play 2-3 gigs a week without too much strain.
Every serious musician I know complains about something once in a while..
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Dunboyne Banjo Picker
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I spent years suffering in sessions because of pointless tensing up. I'd wake up the next day with a stiff neck and headache. I've psyched myself out of this and now I play much better and enjoy myself much more. The only remaining problem is severe stinging pain and watering eyes, accompanied by vile expletives, resulting from a moustache hair caught in the harmonica cover plates.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Hmm. As a fiddle player, let me count the ways...
Left hand:
broken little finger, bends the wrong way, ie, towards the palm, and is a centimetre shorter than my rh pinky.
pinky and ring - nerve damage from the elbow hitting something - probably scaffolding - tests showed the impulses worked were at half speed compared to the right hand. It took only two months before my playing compensated... the brain sends the signal that wee tad earlier you know...
Right hand:
Recently badly broken ring finger. Can barely bend it properly. Thankfully not a critical bowing finger.
Thumb: collapsing endjoint. From striking the lighter I reckon.
Point is, you play as well as you can, and you adapt to your infirmities! THAT IS THE TRADITIONAL WAY! (cough). Any pandering to these paltry "ailments" is just namby pamby classical playing influence, and should be rightly shunned. How else did the greats get their wonderful and idiosyncratic sound? By injury due to hard physical labour, that's right ye bunch of overfed and sedentary self-obsessed plonkers!
ALERT: All the above is tongue in cheek. Well, it would be, but I accidentally bit my tongue off recently, and as for my cheek, I fed it to the dog because I forgot to buy dogfood.
ok, I'm going to delete this now.
Oh balls.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Apart from the p-taking I agree with ol' mutatis above - you work round them. The same with instruments that seem to have built-in liabilities. This is some of what gives the music its flavour. An instrument that can do anything, easily, doesn't give of itself.
Alternatively, I've heard some people, particularly a previously very tense fiddler, speak highly of the Alexander Technique.
PS How can I get rid of the americanisation on my spellcheck ? It didn't think I could spell flavour correctly ?
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Think of Django Reinhardt and count yer blessings ?
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by duffgen
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I've previously mentioned sawing my left thumb early this summer. It was certainly music-related as I was sawing down wood for a mandola-soundboard. Played our regular session two days later with the thumb all bandaged up, the night before going into plastic surgery to have the tendon repaired ( nobody told me not to play BEFORE the operation ).....
Once dropped a very large speaker onto my right hand while setting up on a high stage for a gig - had staggered to the stage, dropped the speaker, then it toppled over onto the hand that was supporting me as I leant on the stage getting my breath back. Couldn't find a cold tap that actually ran cold to hold the fingers under, had to play the gig plectrum style instead of my more usual fingerpicking for that band. The ring on the third finger is still bent 30 years + later.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Extra-specially sour sessions leave me with stiff and sore muscles; while beautiful sessions seem to get the endorphens flowing through my system. Just one more anecdotal argument against bad music, and for good music.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
All that is true - a good session leaves you invigorated, much like a good sing ( just don't mix them ).
And don't forget the endolphins - pleasurable hormones triggered by swimming with ceteceans.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I do know one guy who swam through a pod of whales once. He was wound-up for weeks afterward; could have walked on the ceiling. How's the thumb doing?
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
sclerosis of the liver-dance
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Cirrhosis, maybe? The other term sounds bad enough, though. Sufferers are forced wear those tell-tale wigs.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I'm just recovering from glandular fever (mono) and it was directly caused by playing the accordion, let your imagination fill in the inbetween stages.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
*indirectly
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
Was it a piano accordion? If so that's easy - men can't keep themselves away from girls who play piano accordion. Sorry to hear about your illness though.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by airport
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
The thumb is fully functional. But I recently went back to the other half of the wedge of wood, to saw it through similarly, and I was looking at the thumb-scar the whole time. Once bitten......
But I've lost the good summer weather so I must crack on in the open-air workshop.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The taboo subject ... Musicians ailments
I don't know of any pipers (Highland) who suffer from rheumatism in their fingers, but maybe that's coincidence. I know two though who had to give up when their teeth came out. One chap even tried a rubber mouthpiece. That was a hoot. But not for him of course. He was the same inventive genius who made a bag out of an inner tube. He had to stop blowing two bars before the end of the tune. And he got a chest infection.
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by gam
Looking for a balad called the Portuguse
I'm looking for the words to a ballad I've heard sung around Dublin called "The Portuguese" - its about a man who looses his mot to the portuguese man after her plies her with baby cham.
Many Thanks,
Paddy
# Posted on January 31st 2010 by Dunboyne Banjo Picker