I have just bought a Chieftain low D whistle. I did my research and thought it was an easier reach than other makes. I unfortunately can't get to a shop to try before I buy, so bought online. The problem is-I can't play it!! I just can't reach the lower holes, my hands are too small. I really wanted to be able to play low to add some variety to my band's set instead of high whistles all the time.
I wonder if a low F would be any better reach but still have some of the lovely haunting qualities of the Low D. Does anyone play a low F? Is the reach noticeably different to a low D?
I now have a Chieftain Low D and a Desi Seery flute for sale if anyone is interested!! (unless I can get a hand transplant!)
Any ideas as ever would be gratefully received, Lou.
Try a bit harder, it will come. Remember to use the finger pads in the middle of your finger, not the finger tips. I've seen little 12 year old girls with really tiny 12 year old girl hands play low whistles, so it can be done. Just practice
Lou, if you feel the stretch is too big simply use your pinky on the right hand. It gives the same relationship between the notes as with Uilleann pipes (all fingers down for D then two up for E) A couple of weeks getting your head round it and it's a piece of cake.
Before you give up, there is a really nice explanation of the piper's grip on Chiff & Fipple. Also there are discussion forums where the topic has been discussed at length. You can find some really great ideas about how to adapt for smallish hands.
Another options is to check with some of the whistle makers for custom tuning. Sweetheart whistles in particular may be a good option for you.
Give us a measurement kilmartinlou ~ spread your fingers as widely as you can and then measure from the second joint of your pointer to the 1st joint pad of your third finger. Let me know when you have done that and it will give me some idea of what you're capable of comfortably. It isn't a bad idea to start with say a smaller scale before eventually going on to a low D. For some folks some low Ds are not suitable. There's no sense in straining if in this case your hands and this whistle are not compatable... But try all options before giving up, including starting with a smaller scale and trying the low D again later...
Before I learned to play the flute I played an Overton low D (Years ago they used to call it a bull whistle!) and I had that same problem as the holes were huge and very far apart so I solved it by using my pinky finger on the bottom D hole.
The two fingers (pinky and ring) kind of work together and as bogman said it'll take about a fortnight to get your head around it but then your playing becomes a lot easier because you dont have that permanent stretch on your right hand.
You might want to hang on to that Seery. All the same it is a good flute to start on. So good luck deisendoolin
My hands are fairly large. But I am always interested in hearing how players with smaller hands make the stretch. The pinky idea sounds great.
Since you have the instruments try everything. Maybe walking down slowly (at 1st) G F# E & then (real slow) stretching the last finger down. That, or some similar pre strectch, to get comfortable with the spread. The bottom note is the most important ~ it's the barker (dirty D). So when you do hit it you want your hand(s) to be comfortable. Take your time. If you work it too hard you will feel some tendon pain higher up your arm.
I love my Overton F & believe it would be easy for smaller hands. Just not many tunes come up for the key. The Burke Low D Viper has a foot joint which allows you to rotate the bottom hole for an easier reach.
Thanks everyone, I have done the measurement ceolachan, it is 3 and a half inches. My fingers are really quite narrow/slender and even my knuckles don't seem to cover the holes properly. I have played it on and off for about a week, not long enough I suppose-I guess I am impatient as we are trying to get a set list together pretty quick to go gigging asap. We needed a variation in sound rather than high D in all the tunes, I guessed that a low D was the answer. Maybe I just need to try a bit harder or get a higher key in a low whistle for now as a stop gap while I perservere with the chieftain.......I don't have huge amounts of time to practice and needed a quick fix which I deep down know i'm not going to get.
Deisendoolin, I did e-mail you earlier when I read your other flute related post, I guess you haven't had it.......how do we get in touch?
Hi I just bought a susato low F on ebay lovely! much easier to play than the chieftan low D, low whistles are harder to play than ordainary high whistles, look up youtube-Emer Mayock she gives good hints on playing low whistles
ceolachan ~ "measure from the second joint of your pointer to the 1st joint pad of your third finger"
Lou ~ "it is 3 and a half inches"
Random ~ "it is 3 and a half inches"
I believe you can do it kilmartinlou
To be honest, judging by your last post it looks like you are just not putting enough time in on the low D. You can't expect to gig a new instrument without serious practice. 2 or 3 hours a day would sort you out. List every tune you can think of and play the whole lot a few times every day. Thinking of practice in terms of weeks or even years means nothing, it's down to hours. One persons week consists of one or two playing hours whereas another persons week is 20, 30 or even more.
Th F is not an option unless you are playing with singers. I have a beautiful Overton F but mostly use it in the house on my own or with singers. You can easily play F, Gm, Bb, C, Cm & Dm on an F whistle but you will very rarely hear tunes in these keys strung together.
I can't play most low Ds. The holes are bigger than my fingers, so even when holding the thing with a piper's grip I struggle to cover the holes completely. I also find with my hand stretched out really far I lose mobility, hence the timing of rolls, crans, etc. gets thrown out of whack. That said, I've had the best luck with Chieftain whistles. Brian Howard's are also okay grip-wise. I can't play Overton's or MK whistles at all.
My BF has an MK F whistle. It's brilliant as it has similar hole spacing to a concert pitch chanter but as bogman said, it is kind of anti-social for sessions.
A simple but effective technique is to play the whistle as though it was a flute, ie turn the whistle about 45 ยบ to your right that way you shorten the angle to your fingers.
I am going to carry on with the low d but i think i am going to get a low d in a higher key also.
What would be the best key to get? I play with 2 guitarists who are very versatile and i guess could use their capo's.....If I could just get a different sound to that of the high D and be able to play some of the tunes we already do it would be great, but what key should I go for?
If it is in a higher key it's not really a low D whistle anymore But I think the get what you meant.
I'd recommend a low A. They have more amenable finger spacing, a lovely sound, and are a bit more sociable than Fs as they happily play tunes in A. You can play along with highland pipers. I don't have one of these but would really like one.
I bought my SO a low A, a Susato, because she had fallen in love with a tune in A, which I had transposed down to G so she could play it easily on her D whistle or flute. Now she plays it in G fingering on the A whistle, which puts it in D !
It's actually a Soprano A that's being talked about here, the Low A is a bass whistle - very large indeed. The soprano A is not actually a low whistle. The reason A is not a suitable alternative to a D whistle is that you are very limited in the number of trad tunes you can play because of where the scale lies. As you say Pete you can play in D by playing in the G position on an A. The problem with that is if you imagine the lowest note you could play on a fiddle to be the A string then imagine where you would be playing by the time you got half way up the second octave. Playing Scottish pipe tunes is not an option either as most Scottish tunes you down to the G nat.
A is fine for songs or the occasional couple of tunes but not as an alternative to a D, unless of course the stringed leads are happy to transpose all the tunes to a lower register. The only practical advice here is to persist with the low D
If you're engineering minded you can drill another hole in it. I have no idea if this works but knew a guy who did it so he could theoretically play a middle C on a D whistle.
You're right there TSS. Colin Goldie makes a D with an extra hole for your pinky that gives you middle C. You need those spidery Seamus Ennis type fingers for that though. He also does a back thumb hole for F nat too.
That's cool, bogman. It's a b*gger (for many reasons) I don't have Seamus Ennis fingers. LOL.
The fella I knew was an engineer (okay, a software engineer ) and he did the DIY whistle drilling. I have another friend, also a software engineer, who made a non-tunable Chieftain whistle tunable by cutting the top bit off and putting a slidy tube between the two sections of the whistle.
Your fingers aren't any smaller than mine and I doubt if they could be much skinnier. Find a way to cover the holes first and adapt your playing to suit. It's a completely different way to playing a penny whistle. I used to have a plastic thumbpick pushed on below the E hole to rest my pinky on. It works a treat, but I don't need it now. Persevere.
Low whistle reach problems
Low whistle reach problems
Hi there all,
I have just bought a Chieftain low D whistle. I did my research and thought it was an easier reach than other makes. I unfortunately can't get to a shop to try before I buy, so bought online. The problem is-I can't play it!! I just can't reach the lower holes, my hands are too small. I really wanted to be able to play low to add some variety to my band's set instead of high whistles all the time.
I wonder if a low F would be any better reach but still have some of the lovely haunting qualities of the Low D. Does anyone play a low F? Is the reach noticeably different to a low D?
I now have a Chieftain Low D and a Desi Seery flute for sale if anyone is interested!! (unless I can get a hand transplant!)
Any ideas as ever would be gratefully received, Lou.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by kilmartinlou
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Try a bit harder, it will come. Remember to use the finger pads in the middle of your finger, not the finger tips. I've seen little 12 year old girls with really tiny 12 year old girl hands play low whistles, so it can be done. Just practice
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Lou, if you feel the stretch is too big simply use your pinky on the right hand. It gives the same relationship between the notes as with Uilleann pipes (all fingers down for D then two up for E) A couple of weeks getting your head round it and it's a piece of cake.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by bogman
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Is your flute for sale on ebay?? How much r you chargin? Im lookin for a flute myself at the moment. Only startin out.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by deisendoolin
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Before you give up, there is a really nice explanation of the piper's grip on Chiff & Fipple. Also there are discussion forums where the topic has been discussed at length. You can find some really great ideas about how to adapt for smallish hands.
Another options is to check with some of the whistle makers for custom tuning. Sweetheart whistles in particular may be a good option for you.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by dlkes
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Give us a measurement kilmartinlou ~ spread your fingers as widely as you can and then measure from the second joint of your pointer to the 1st joint pad of your third finger. Let me know when you have done that and it will give me some idea of what you're capable of comfortably. It isn't a bad idea to start with say a smaller scale before eventually going on to a low D. For some folks some low Ds are not suitable. There's no sense in straining if in this case your hands and this whistle are not compatable... But try all options before giving up, including starting with a smaller scale and trying the low D again later...
Best of luck...
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Bogman beat me to it.
Before I learned to play the flute I played an Overton low D (Years ago they used to call it a bull whistle!) and I had that same problem as the holes were huge and very far apart so I solved it by using my pinky finger on the bottom D hole.
The two fingers (pinky and ring) kind of work together and as bogman said it'll take about a fortnight to get your head around it but then your playing becomes a lot easier because you dont have that permanent stretch on your right hand.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by banjoburger
Re: Low whistle reach problems
You might want to hang on to that Seery. All the same it is a good flute to start on. So good luck deisendoolin
My hands are fairly large. But I am always interested in hearing how players with smaller hands make the stretch. The pinky idea sounds great.
Since you have the instruments try everything. Maybe walking down slowly (at 1st) G F# E & then (real slow) stretching the last finger down. That, or some similar pre strectch, to get comfortable with the spread. The bottom note is the most important ~ it's the barker (dirty D). So when you do hit it you want your hand(s) to be comfortable. Take your time. If you work it too hard you will feel some tendon pain higher up your arm.
I love my Overton F & believe it would be easy for smaller hands. Just not many tunes come up for the key. The Burke Low D Viper has a foot joint which allows you to rotate the bottom hole for an easier reach.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Low whistle reach problems
I had a Howard about 20 years ago and I had similair probs to yourself..ended up sellin it to a friend
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by peter wsll
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Thanks everyone, I have done the measurement ceolachan, it is 3 and a half inches. My fingers are really quite narrow/slender and even my knuckles don't seem to cover the holes properly. I have played it on and off for about a week, not long enough I suppose-I guess I am impatient as we are trying to get a set list together pretty quick to go gigging asap. We needed a variation in sound rather than high D in all the tunes, I guessed that a low D was the answer. Maybe I just need to try a bit harder or get a higher key in a low whistle for now as a stop gap while I perservere with the chieftain.......I don't have huge amounts of time to practice and needed a quick fix which I deep down know i'm not going to get.
Deisendoolin, I did e-mail you earlier when I read your other flute related post, I guess you haven't had it.......how do we get in touch?
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by kilmartinlou
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Hi I just bought a susato low F on ebay lovely! much easier to play than the chieftan low D, low whistles are harder to play than ordainary high whistles, look up youtube-Emer Mayock she gives good hints on playing low whistles
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by lilyot
Low whistle reach
ceolachan ~ "measure from the second joint of your pointer to the 1st joint pad of your third finger"
Lou ~ "it is 3 and a half inches"
Random ~ "it is 3 and a half inches"
I believe you can do it kilmartinlou
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Low whistle reach problems
To be honest, judging by your last post it looks like you are just not putting enough time in on the low D. You can't expect to gig a new instrument without serious practice. 2 or 3 hours a day would sort you out. List every tune you can think of and play the whole lot a few times every day. Thinking of practice in terms of weeks or even years means nothing, it's down to hours. One persons week consists of one or two playing hours whereas another persons week is 20, 30 or even more.
Th F is not an option unless you are playing with singers. I have a beautiful Overton F but mostly use it in the house on my own or with singers. You can easily play F, Gm, Bb, C, Cm & Dm on an F whistle but you will very rarely hear tunes in these keys strung together.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by bogman
Re: Low whistle reach problems
I can't play most low Ds. The holes are bigger than my fingers, so even when holding the thing with a piper's grip I struggle to cover the holes completely. I also find with my hand stretched out really far I lose mobility, hence the timing of rolls, crans, etc. gets thrown out of whack. That said, I've had the best luck with Chieftain whistles. Brian Howard's are also okay grip-wise. I can't play Overton's or MK whistles at all.
My BF has an MK F whistle. It's brilliant as it has similar hole spacing to a concert pitch chanter but as bogman said, it is kind of anti-social for sessions.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Low whistle reach problems
A simple but effective technique is to play the whistle as though it was a flute, ie turn the whistle about 45 ยบ to your right that way you shorten the angle to your fingers.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by WhistlingPaddy
Re: Low whistle reach problems
I am going to carry on with the low d but i think i am going to get a low d in a higher key also.
What would be the best key to get? I play with 2 guitarists who are very versatile and i guess could use their capo's.....If I could just get a different sound to that of the high D and be able to play some of the tunes we already do it would be great, but what key should I go for?
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by kilmartinlou
Re: Low whistle reach problems
If it is in a higher key it's not really a low D whistle anymore
But I think the get what you meant.
I'd recommend a low A. They have more amenable finger spacing, a lovely sound, and are a bit more sociable than Fs as they happily play tunes in A. You can play along with highland pipers. I don't have one of these but would really like one.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Low whistle reach problems
I bought my SO a low A, a Susato, because she had fallen in love with a tune in A, which I had transposed down to G so she could play it easily on her D whistle or flute. Now she plays it in G fingering on the A whistle, which puts it in D !
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Low whistle reach problems
It's actually a Soprano A that's being talked about here, the Low A is a bass whistle - very large indeed. The soprano A is not actually a low whistle. The reason A is not a suitable alternative to a D whistle is that you are very limited in the number of trad tunes you can play because of where the scale lies. As you say Pete you can play in D by playing in the G position on an A. The problem with that is if you imagine the lowest note you could play on a fiddle to be the A string then imagine where you would be playing by the time you got half way up the second octave. Playing Scottish pipe tunes is not an option either as most Scottish tunes you down to the G nat.
A is fine for songs or the occasional couple of tunes but not as an alternative to a D, unless of course the stringed leads are happy to transpose all the tunes to a lower register. The only practical advice here is to persist with the low D
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bogman
Re: Low whistle reach problems
I stand corrected.
I have no idea if this works but knew a guy who did it so he could theoretically play a middle C on a D whistle.
If you're engineering minded you can drill another hole in it.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Low whistle reach problems
You're right there TSS. Colin Goldie makes a D with an extra hole for your pinky that gives you middle C. You need those spidery Seamus Ennis type fingers for that though. He also does a back thumb hole for F nat too.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bogman
Re: Low whistle reach problems
That's cool, bogman. It's a b*gger (for many reasons) I don't have Seamus Ennis fingers. LOL.
) and he did the DIY whistle drilling. I have another friend, also a software engineer, who made a non-tunable Chieftain whistle tunable by cutting the top bit off and putting a slidy tube between the two sections of the whistle.
The fella I knew was an engineer (okay, a software engineer
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Low whistle reach problems
Your fingers aren't any smaller than mine and I doubt if they could be much skinnier. Find a way to cover the holes first and adapt your playing to suit. It's a completely different way to playing a penny whistle. I used to have a plastic thumbpick pushed on below the E hole to rest my pinky on. It works a treat, but I don't need it now. Persevere.
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by gam