Hi. I'm looking for your input on percussive banjo players. Those players who admire the back beat, and have that 'punch' to their playing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. If you are ony here to promote the 'craic'' (n other words, test your humorous capacity), please refrain.
Well, this may be a bit of a nit-pick, but "back beat" (as in accenting the 2 and 4 beats) is to my ears the opposite of what really drives Irish music. Attacking on the one in a reel is what gives it the real drive and energy. This is especially true for guitar players accompanying trad. This separates the Irish genre "feel and grove" from bluegrass and rock-and -roll etc.
Be that as it may, Brona kicks @ss and so does my personal fav, Kevin Griffin.
JNE, to my ear, what really drives reels in an authentic Irish trad way (not that I could explain what that means) is shifting the emphasis around so that it's not always on the 1 and 3 beats or the 2 and 4 beats. The tune suggests which beats to accent, and variations in doing so, and that's what really makes them come alive. Brona's playing on that clip above clearly demonstrates this.
For this reason, to me it makes more sense in this music to think in terms of strong and weak beats, rather than on-the-beat and off-the-beat, or down beats and back beats.
CPT - I'm not disagreeing with your take on the music or Brona's playing. Only that "back beat" is a term I don't usually hear associated or applied to this music effectively. Often times I think it's a misunderstood term confused with "driving pulse" or something along those lines. Perhaps I just misunderstood Imnotirish's use of the word.
No, I didn't think you were disagreeing, JNE. All I was getting at is that emphasizing the downbeats (the 1s) ends up sounding sort of pedestrian. The emphasis shifts, is fluid, that's all.
as an indifferent reader of musical notation I took a long time to work out that reels scored in common time are usually played with the second beat strongest.
the pharsing often makes it sound as if the strong second beat is actually the first in the bar.
I like to play the third and fourth beats without particular emphasis if the shape of the tune allows it. this makes the single pulse of the strong beat more prominent.
this ties in with what others have said on this site about cut common time - with one strong beat in the bar - being more appropriate for scoring reels
back in common time, adding weight to beats 3 or 4 can add colour if you've got enough control to keep count and hit the next second beat strongly
I'm looking forward to reading more comments on this topic
I've been a bit of a fan of Pádraig Mac Donncha, who hasn't appeared on too many recordings, but the stuff I've heard of his could easily be described as percussive. Most of the stuff I've heard of his is in a session-like setting, and he provides an incredibly steady, and wonderfully rhythmic background for the flowing music.
There's a difference between that, and a lot of what you will hear in a solo banjo recording.
Emphasising the 'back-beat', to my ear, seems to be a strong feature of Sliabh Luachra players, especially in polkas. But clearly, that is only one small element of the style.
It isn't just Sliabh Luachra polkas that have off-beat rhythms. I've come across a slip jig where half the bars have the rhythm 2 3 1 3; in other words the notes are slurred across the beat. I've just posted this beguiling little tune in the Tunes section as “Cahiramee” (tune #8965}.
The 2 videos above are brilliant. So please forgive my ignorance.
Is this post about a style (of banjo playing) which is usually solo? Or a style commonly used in playing with others. I enjoyed listening to the videos, but don't think I could contribute anything if I played along.
Is this strictly a solo style (or possibly duo, trio) . . . ?
Percussive banjo players
Percussive banjo players
Hi. I'm looking for your input on percussive banjo players. Those players who admire the back beat, and have that 'punch' to their playing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. If you are ony here to promote the 'craic'' (n other words, test your humorous capacity), please refrain.
Arbo
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Imnotirish
Re: Percussive banjo players
I'm ony here for the craic.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Percussive banjo players
Arbo, you might like this by Eddie Whelan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4NIQ1Rb03s&feature=related
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Percussive banjo players
BRona Graham knows how to pounce on the back beat, but artfully mixes it up, too, to suit the tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPhe3bDJx1E&feature=related
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Percussive banjo players
Well, this may be a bit of a nit-pick, but "back beat" (as in accenting the 2 and 4 beats) is to my ears the opposite of what really drives Irish music. Attacking on the one in a reel is what gives it the real drive and energy. This is especially true for guitar players accompanying trad. This separates the Irish genre "feel and grove" from bluegrass and rock-and -roll etc.
Be that as it may, Brona kicks @ss and so does my personal fav, Kevin Griffin.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Percussive banjo players
I did some searching, do either of those players have CDs out? I found that Brona guests on Beoga's cds. Is she prominently featured?
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by drinkybanjo
Re: Percussive banjo players
JNE, to my ear, what really drives reels in an authentic Irish trad way (not that I could explain what that means) is shifting the emphasis around so that it's not always on the 1 and 3 beats or the 2 and 4 beats. The tune suggests which beats to accent, and variations in doing so, and that's what really makes them come alive. Brona's playing on that clip above clearly demonstrates this.
For this reason, to me it makes more sense in this music to think in terms of strong and weak beats, rather than on-the-beat and off-the-beat, or down beats and back beats.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Percussive banjo players
CPT - I'm not disagreeing with your take on the music or Brona's playing. Only that "back beat" is a term I don't usually hear associated or applied to this music effectively. Often times I think it's a misunderstood term confused with "driving pulse" or something along those lines. Perhaps I just misunderstood Imnotirish's use of the word.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Percussive banjo players
No, I didn't think you were disagreeing, JNE. All I was getting at is that emphasizing the downbeats (the 1s) ends up sounding sort of pedestrian. The emphasis shifts, is fluid, that's all.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Percussive banjo players
as an indifferent reader of musical notation I took a long time to work out that reels scored in common time are usually played with the second beat strongest.
the pharsing often makes it sound as if the strong second beat is actually the first in the bar.
I like to play the third and fourth beats without particular emphasis if the shape of the tune allows it. this makes the single pulse of the strong beat more prominent.
this ties in with what others have said on this site about cut common time - with one strong beat in the bar - being more appropriate for scoring reels
back in common time, adding weight to beats 3 or 4 can add colour if you've got enough control to keep count and hit the next second beat strongly
I'm looking forward to reading more comments on this topic
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Percussive banjo players
I've been a bit of a fan of Pádraig Mac Donncha, who hasn't appeared on too many recordings, but the stuff I've heard of his could easily be described as percussive. Most of the stuff I've heard of his is in a session-like setting, and he provides an incredibly steady, and wonderfully rhythmic background for the flowing music.
There's a difference between that, and a lot of what you will hear in a solo banjo recording.
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Percussive banjo players
Emphasising the 'back-beat', to my ear, seems to be a strong feature of Sliabh Luachra players, especially in polkas. But clearly, that is only one small element of the style.
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Percussive banjo players
...I am thinking of fiddlers and box players here (e.g. Padraig O'Keefe, Johnny O'Leary). It's not an easy style to translate to plucked instruments.
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Percussive banjo players
It isn't just Sliabh Luachra polkas that have off-beat rhythms. I've come across a slip jig where half the bars have the rhythm 2 3 1 3; in other words the notes are slurred across the beat. I've just posted this beguiling little tune in the Tunes section as “Cahiramee” (tune #8965}.
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Percussive banjo players
The 2 videos above are brilliant. So please forgive my ignorance.
Is this post about a style (of banjo playing) which is usually solo? Or a style commonly used in playing with others. I enjoyed listening to the videos, but don't think I could contribute anything if I played along.
Is this strictly a solo style (or possibly duo, trio) . . . ?
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by Ben Steen