In 1995, when some other local musicians started an Irish Session here, I showed up at the second session and told them what I played (piano and bass). When I asked if I could join them, they insisted that I should bring my electronic keyboard and play it as a piano in order to fill out the sound as my contribution to the general cacophony.
Shortly after this, the same musicians who had started the sessions decided to start a band and they invited me to join the band. So, for the next two years, I played piano with a similar-minded group of mixed nuts who liked Irish music. Since this band broke up in 1998, four or five other bands or musical groups have been formed by various musicians who participate regularly in the local sessions.
Except for one occasion last year when a fiddler was trying to start a ceili band, I haven't been invited to join and/or perform with any of the other bands which have been started by other musicians from the local sessions. I have been invited to come and listen to the various bands.
What is confusing to me is that these same musicians who have started all of these bands but haven't invited me to perform with them go out of their way to make me feel welcome at the local sessions. So far as I can tell, they seem to be glad when I show up and participate by playing my electronic piano.
They want me at the sessions but (with two exceptions), they don't want me in their other musical groups outside of the sessions such as bands.
If I couldn't keep up with the other musicians at the local sessions and didn't know what I was doing, I wouldn't be at all welcome at the local sessions.
I ignored the offer from the fiddler about the ceili band. I felt insulted that a ceili band was the only musical group that someone thought I was a good enough musician to be invited to join. Also, this same fiddler didn't ask me to help accompany the dancers at a local Celtic Festival a few years ago either.
This is confusing. First, this fiddler says no and then (one year later) this person changes their mind and says yes.
Bands are financial as well as musical and social arrangements.
If they're contracted as (for example) a three-piece, then a keyboard/piano may be a luxury they can't afford.
They don't seem to have a problem with you socially or musically, so I'd suggest that it's other considerations, whether it be financial, logistical, PA/acoustic requirements, or just that they don't need another musician for the moment. I wouldn't take it personally - a lot of musicians are socially inept anyway so it's no good being sensitive around them
A band is a funny thing - it has its own personality and style. Maybe
you don't have right "look" or the right stage presence? It might be
musical, it might be non-musical.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you....
It's hard to assess your situation without seeing the interactions in person. Hell, most of us don't understand the social manueverings of our own sessions, let alone one going on a thousand miles away.
But that never stops us session.orgers from weighing in.
Bear in mind that piano is rarely a staple of Irish bands. A few solo melody players duo up with piano (Brian Conway and Felix Dolan, Eamonn and Geraldine Cotter, etc.), but other than Cherish the Ladies, I can't think of a touring "name" band in this music that has a piano as part of the mix.
Ceili bands are a different matter. Lacking a rabid pack of accordions, a piano would be welcome to help thump out the beat for dancers.
Sounds like your local session is welcoming and inclusive. Bands are almost never either of those. That's the point of forming a band--to include ONLY the players (i.e., personalities) and sounds you want. No one is obligated to invite you to join. No matter how good a musician you are, you aren't entitled to belong to someone else's band. That's life.
A good option for you might be to form your own band. Who among the locals would you ask to join you? (Remember that just because someone is already in a band doesn't mean they can't be in yours, too.)
It could be as simple as not wanting an electronic instrument as part of the band sound and image. I know that wouldn't fit well with how my session mates and I think of performing this music, whereas we'd more likely accept e-keyboard (and we have) at our session.
Bren's point about the money is spot on. When we gig, we keep our group small so (a) the client can afford us, and (b) we each get a bigger piece of the pie. If three or four of us can do a gig, there's absolutely no reason to add another, even among friends.
To llig, way way off topic: The last time I heard that expression ("the world's gone mad") was in a B&B in north Wales, from an elderly Englishman, about Grunge rock. (I lived in Seattle at the time--his wife was very proud that she knew about Grunge.)
" I felt insulted that a ceili band was the only musical group that someone thought I was a good enough musician to be invited to join."
Why? Actually, that's where the money is to made..in Scotland, at least.
Good ceilidh bands always seem to get regular work albeit of a "bread and butter" variety as ceilidh dancing is very popular with tourists and locals alike. Also, there's a great demand for ceilidh bands for weddings, functions etc. However, even the better and more popular "listening" bands struggle to find enough work in their local area and have to travel much further afield.
However, reading the comments here I'd suggest that Will has it about right. Keyboards have "traditionally" been much more accepted in ceilidh bands. They can be welcome in sessions too but it really depends on the location, style of music, and players involved. There would be a great difference between a full blown Shetland Session in The Lounge, Lerwick and an Irish session in Sandy Bells, for instance.
Q) what is the definition of optomism?
A) A goat-basher with an answering machine
People don't come beating a path to musicians doors, begging them to come and play. You have to do some networking, and not just in sessions.
Assuming you have the dot-reading skills and ear for harmony, you need to make it known you are available, advertise the fact and make sure the local musicians know who you are, what you can do, and the fact you are available at short notice to stand in..
If you can't beat 'em, form your own band, then you can have the upper hand and decide which fiddlers you want to shun.
Agreeing with the others, economics dont warrant a keyboard player, and to be honest, other instruments can (attempt to) play background piano and bass using midi.
I was trying to think of a few bands with keyboards doing the rounds and these sprang to mind.
Beoga, Slide, North Cregg, Vishten, the Brian Pickell Band, Beolach, Buille, Arcady (3), Capercaille and there are tons of others that I can't think of.
Band politics are written in water and graspable as the wind, a zone of mystery beyond the ken of the reasonable sciences, even more than session politics.
But it's no insult to be asked to play in a ceilidh band, as such. A good ceilidh band - the only kind worth bothering with - is miles more than a bunch of indifferent players playing dreck because they don't cut the mustard as concert trad gods. In my area the musos at the top of their game have played regularly or frequently in ceilidh bands. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, there is often more work for ceilidh bands than they can take up - but bands do have to be dedicated / reliable, well organised, and au fait with sound systems and the nature of the dances themselves.
I played in a band once with two keyboard players with 7 keyboards between them. Lets see if I can remember them:
2 x Juno 106
JX8P
DX7
M1
Some Akia sampler I can't remember the name of.
And some box of sounds called a "proteus" or something. I remember that the piano on that was excellent
well someone thinks highly of themselves! lol. so what if ur not in the bands or ceili band. big deal. and its not an insult to be ask to play in a ceili band, thats usually where most of the money is, people are always looking for music for ceilis. this is like a bloody playground sometimes. stop whinging!
Band shmand. Who cares? People actually get upset because they don't have to act like a trained monkey? "Play monkey! Play more! Entertain us! Perform for us!" THBBPT!
There's nothing insulting about a ceili band. It's better than some new age Celtic rock nonsense, or some 'trad' band that doesn't make any money because it's trying to foist session and ceili music on audiences that want a big fancy performance.
when I was young, all my friends were musicians. It does sort of suck when you get left out of a group when some of your best friends are putting it together, but that's just how it goes.
One of my best friends joined this one local band just to do something different. We were living together and working in a blues band together, so Rodney just wanted to go play with Luke and Dave on the side.
But damned if they didn't turn out to be more popular than the bands we did together!
So it just works out like that. If you have enough musicians in your life, you end up getting cut out of bands no matter who you are.
Many a battered musician has surrendered to the temptation of joining an imaginary band. This should be your last resort. Exhaust all other possibilities first; the next-to-last being public performances of "air Trad." Only when this falls through, should you disappear into your attic. Things don't have to come to this.
I've just re-read my post above, and now realise that it's ambiguous. To clarify:
The first sentence was in reference to my imaginary band. Which is imaginary. And you'd be very welcome to join it, fauxcelt. Or anyone for that matter.
The second sentence was in reference to the actual band I'm actually in.
Having played piano with an acoustic, guitar dominant group, I think I know what you are getting at. What you may be running is an obsessive 'purism' about plucked strings that several of our box bangers had. A real pain in the arse........
They tend to be very antipathetic towards any non-stringed instrument.
I was lucky in my case because our main audience-as well as the style that was coming in vogue thanks to the likes of the Amy Grantesque types, the Eagles, and those God-aweful over produced Irish things on PBS- featured a wider variety of insturments.
The box bangers accepted the increased adulation....but still bitched and moaned about any non-fretted instrument. Still, they would tolerate say flutes and the occasional oboe...but God Forbid someone does something with a trumpet. Several guys would just sit at that point.
Since you are playing in a traditionally skewed situation, you probably are experiencing deep seated biases.
I experienced the flip side the other day. I was asked to play in a funeral mass the other day. The vocalists sang a reasonably contemporary brand of religious tripe usually accompanied by someone strumming 4/4 chords generally consistent with a the arrangement of a piano trained music editor who fancied him/herself as Padarewski, or Billy Joel.
The spouse of the guest of honor only wanted "real" instruments like church organ, violin (as opposed to fiddle) and flute. Packed up my guitar at that point.
My band is bluudy beautiful ... it gets gigs in the most incredible places ... and I get to meet loads and loads of lovely ghosts who just can't wait to hear me play ... old bachelors swoon and even ask me out for tea and cake (anything to stop the racket hey!) ... or there's the mannequin in the old gaol ... not only is he incarcerated but he's also frozen ... sigh ... a really captive audience ... but well dressed (if a tad inappropriately for the climate). Then yesterday, me neighbour, who's in the University of the Third Age, had some sort of garden sumthing and the cars were lined down the street ... so I opened my doors and I let 'em have it. They got serenaded whether they liked it or not. Then there's always blathering and skiting somewhere at the showground in Blatherskite Park, Thurs - Sunday (its closed the rest of the week while they spray it liberally with our sewage) ... its always guaranteed to give you a good itch if you haven't already got one!!!
... no ... seriously Fauxcelt, it isn't you, its them ... they can't see a good thing under their noses ... I once got invited to someone's house to play tunes (I was led to believe), and I went, only to find out much later that it had actually been a band audition and I failed. People who play games with other people's lives in such a way aren't worth the trouble. Bluudy sneaky. They aren't friends and its quite easy to quietly lose them on the way.
You'd be very welcome to join me serenadin' the mannequin in the old gaol any old day.
Clear Drops ~ A ballerina retired to the desert of Death Valley. Out there, in the real middle of nowhere, she set up a tiny ballet theater; and would give performances every night, whether she had an audience or not. This was a while back. She may have passed on by now. I vote we draft her (or her shade) into the communal imaginary band. Yes, ballet dancing is not diddley; but this is one of our people all the same!
fauzcelt, don't take it personally. As people have said above, people form different bands for different reasons, are going for different sounds, only have so much money to share around which limits the sizes. Even if they didn't ask you before, if someone asks you again to join in, don't hold their earlier decision against them--maybe your playing recently has impressed them, maybe the sound they are now going for fits your keyboard playing. And we are all at different levels in our playing, different people mesh together differently. Again, bottom line, don't take the band stuff personally. And besides, I know from bitter experience that working together can be the quickest way to destroy a good friendship....
Done Atahualpa Quigley ... and I assume when you use the "communal" in "communal imaginary band" that you're in it too ... everybody welcome! OOOooooo now we could go up market and set up under the sails in the pedestrian mall ... wow! ... or ... perhaps we'd all fit (a bit squashed) into a jewellry box lined with mirrors and red felt ... we could all start off together when anyone lifts the lid. Magic!
Clear Drops ...my youngest had a fairy castle that played music when the key was wound. Perhaps the band could take on a second gig playing from the gallery...after we got paid for the jewellery box gig, of course.
Another thought for FC - what about taking on the ceilidh band gig, playing your heart out and thus impressing everyone with your undeniable musical talent - then sitting back waiting for gobsmacked band leaders to beat a path to your door with requests to play in their bands? Beats playing in an imaginary band - even if the drinks are served with tiny umbrellas.
... golly we'll have to be soooooo careful. It wouldn't do to double book, but a gig on the gallery of a clockwork fairy castle sounds like it might be alright ta me. Wait a bit, better check it with the ballet dancer.
Ladies, don't rush things. The up-market stuff can wait. Start slowly; serenade the coyotes for a few late-night engagements, until you get the right sound. Next, win over other animals. See if your music can captivate the diurnals. Build momentum, expand your fan base. Then it will be time for pedestrian malls.
OOOooo look, already we have dissent and sexism in the band and we don't even have an imaginary name yet. I had thought perhaps, in the light of the above "Howlin' to da Moooooon" or something nocturnal like that ... but do we really have to practice before we launch outselves on the world?
Practicing one's music helps no end, I've found. Best to commit to lots of practice. Sooner or later, an imaginary band must emerge out into a world, however imaginary. Coyotes are the best critics, as they are a real discriminatin' bunch. If you can play their venues, you can play anywhere. Of course it might be wise to debut in a very tiny venue, such as a jewelry box; this could be a real confidence builder. BUT, to play there, night after night, would be soul destroying.
Thank you for all of your responses--even Michael Gill who is as backward as he always is. If I wanted to be as backward as Michael, I would have to call myself "Ecnerual" instead of "fauxcelt".
I don't need to play music at the local Irish sessions to get it out of my system because there are other jam sessions where I am welcome to sit in and play. I have mentioned some of the other jam sessions in my other comments. I don't need the local Irish sessions but the other musicians at the Irish session seem to need me--or, at least, that is the impression I am getting from them.
For Bren and the others who suggested that I start my own band, I am already playing my bass fiddle on a regular basis (every week) with a mandolin and guitar group. We have two mandolins and three guitars besides myself on bass.
We all have day jobs and like to play music in our free time. Two members of this group are psychiatrists, one person is an attorney, and the other two are music teachers.
I have been making music with this group of mixed nuts for a few years and I am enjoying it. Yes, we do try to make complete and total fools of ourselves by performing in public occasionally.
We use sheet music and we play music by famous composers such as J.S. Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Mozart, Couperin, Telemann, Mendelssohn, Haydn, Scarlatti, Faure, Purcell, and Clementi as well as not-so-famous composers such as Hasse, Albinoni, Haslinger, Seixas, Cimarosa, Krebs, Tischner, Kabalevsky, Pachelbel, and Scott Joplin. We even play some pieces by contemporary composers such as Pamela Wedgwood (Great Britain) and Dieter Kreidler (Germany).
Working with this mandolin and guitar group has been both fun and challenging for me. I didn't mention this band in my original post because this group of mixed nuts doesn't play Irish or Scottish music.
As for me complaining about this to a group of virtual strangers, the two psychiatrists in the mandolin and guitar group seem to think I am beyond professional help and I am sure my wife would agree with this assessment.
I am not playing music to make money. I play music because it is one of the few things in life which I genuinely enjoy doing. For me, it is a good escape and a good way to get away from my job as a medical clerk in the intensive care unit at a hospital.
We will probably never travel to Cape Breton or Ireland because there are too many other places we would like to visit first.
I don't know whether or not it is possible to make money playing in a ceili band in Arkansas nor do I care.
A few years ago, the Arkansas Celtic Music Society began putting on a Celtic Festival once a year and I went to the first one. My offers to volunteer to help with the Festival were completely ignored.
Nor was I asked to contribute musically. For example, if I had been asked whether or not I would be willing to try to accompany the dancers, my reply would have been: "Yes, I will glad to play music for the dancers if someone (such as a fiddle or flute or box) will play the melody and they need me to accompany them while the fiddler or flautist or box player plays for the dancing." However, nobody ever asked me if I was interested in playing music for the dancers. I never got the opportunity to say yes or no to playing for the dancers. Then the fiddler who was going to play for the dancers made it clear that she wanted only a certain guitarist to accompany her so I left and went home.
Then, the next year after this first Celtic Festival, this same fiddler was the person who tried to persuade me to play piano with a ceili band which she was trying to start.
I haven't gone to any of the yearly Celtic Festivals since the first one. If any of you would like more information about these Festivals, you can go to the web site of the Arkansas Celtic Music Society.
Ceolachan, it was your comments about exclusion and inclusion in a recent post which started me thinking about this situation.
One of these days, Real Soon Now, I fully intend to put some samples of my piano playing either on YouTube and/or SoundLantern so all of you can get some idea of just how good or how awful my playing actually is.
At all of the jam sessions where I play music, if I couldn't play well enough to keep up with the other musicians, I would be told to leave instead of being invited to come back. Apparently, I must be doing something right when I am at these jam sessions because otherwise, I wouldn't be invited to come back again.
Clear Drops, I have been in similar situations a few time where other people "can't see a good thing under their noses". It is a familiar feeling for me.
I didn't mean to come across as complaining or whining because I am more confused and puzzled by this situation than anything else.
thats the problem. why do you feel that you SHOULD be in the band or whatever? thats not actually a real problem, it reads like a load of school yard tripe, its like 'oh my friend started a club but i wasn't asked to be in it' type c r a p. givus a break. and come on, you say that the other musicians in the session 'need' you but you dont REALLY need them. how f'ing arrogant is that! what gives you the right to say that they 'need' you? does a session with five fiddles really 'need' all those fiddles? no, but thats just the way it is. sorry to break it to you but you come across as a bit of a knob. you say that you are invited back to play in the session. you make it sound like an audition, but you don't realise that that is one situation, the whole setting up of a band is different. just because you play in a session with these people doesn't mean they're obligated to ask you to join the band, that is a completely seperate entity from the session. you say you have been in similar situations a few times where other people can't see a good thing under their noses, and it is a familiar feeling for you. maybe there is a reason for that. who are you to say what people's tastes are? even if you are good that doesn't mean that people should automatically like you. you also say you play for enjoyment. how can that be true when you are so consumed with this band nonsense! if you really did play for just the love and not to make money than there would be no thread. you already play at the session you talk about, do you not enjoy playing at that? why do you feel that you have to have your hand in everything that is organised in your area? i get the idea that you have a distorted view of yourself and the trad scene and that a lot of your last comment is not genuine. you contradict yourself constantly throughout. or maybe it is genuine and you actually just dont have a clue.
you sound jaded and need to grow up and stop clogging this site with pathetic posts like this.
Going by the words and the actions and behavior of the other musicians at the local session, they do seem to want me to be there to play the piano. I am sure they don't need me just so they can have a session and that is fine with me because I have no desire and no wish whatsoever to be indispensable to the success or failure of the local session.
Yes, there will always be people who can't truly appreciate you until it is too late. There have been people in my life who I didn't really appreciate until they were gone.
Then there are the people who have mistaken ideas about what I should be good at or should enjoy. They never seem to have heard the old saying about the difficulty of fitting a square peg into a round hole.
As for being more involved in the local music scene, I am not the type of person who likes to just sit there and listen or just do one thing such as only playing piano at the sessions. I do like to volunteer and help in situations where I might be able to do something useful instead of letting others do all of the work and all of the heavy lifting.
The fiddler whom I mentioned is a member of this web site and you can contact her under the name "bonniefiddler" if you want to get her side of the story.
thats fine. its good that you all seem to genuinely enjoy each others company. thats fine if you feel the need to help to give others a break, but you're giving people the wrong impression when you write here about feeling bitter and your suspicions of people about your offer for help being turned down. why should you feel so paranoid, if someone turns down your offer maybe its because they actualy would want you to contribute by being a good listener and attending the events. you even say that you've been invited to come and listen to bands regularly. being a supporter and good listener in that capacity is just as important to a tradition like this as it is organising festivals and promoting music in bands. maybe people are paying you a compliment if they ask you to listen to their group perform or to support a festival just by being there.
As a friend (who is an exceptional musician) in Ireland once said to me after I was frozen out of a session "Sometimes people just dont want to play with you". And fair enough - sometimes I dont want to play with some people. You're reading far too much into all of this fauxcelt - I mean- you cant invite everyone into a band can you? Because then it isnt a band - its a session on stage. I really dont see the problem.....
Right on bb!
Bands play gigs.
Session mates session. Make the most of which ever one you are doing at the moment.
Enjoy your session fauxcelt. Is this confusing? ~ If you want to play in a band form one.
;)
Fauxcelt, I reckon you're quite lucky in that you do already get your musical rocks off in more than one context.
However, the lack of bonding in ITM work is obviously getting to you. It seems to me that one aspect is the fiddler that didn't want your assistance at one time, then invited you to join in a different unit, at which point YOU turned HER down. Who's complaining about mixed messages ? I reckon she had a thing for the guitarist she worked with previously, and maybe has now got over it, but I could be wrong. It wouldn't hurt to try and have a serious heart -to-heart with her to resolve this burning issue.
Meanwhile, nobody's perfect, communication is not always clear, and the repeated message here seems to be 'form your own band'. Then people can feel hurt when YOU don't invite THEM.
If this fiddler had a "thing" for the guitarist, I am sure both of their spouses would be shocked and surprised to learn that. This fiddler has been married to the same man long enough to have two children (a boy and a girl) who are now going to college.
The son seems to have inherited all of his mother's musical talent and ability (yes I have heard him play).
There are no romantic feelings involved--just a desire to spend as much of my time as possible doing something I genuinely enjoy which is playing music.
If there is one group of musicians who tell me that they just want me to listen and don't want me to play while there is another group of musicians who definitely want me to play music with them, which group do you think I would prefer to spend my free time with?
Also, I would have liked to do more to help at the Celtic Festival besides just playing music for the dancers. When I said my offers to help were ignored, I meant offers to help sit at the door and sell tickets; offers to help serve food such as potatoes (the fiddler volunteered her husband to serve the potatoes and he got stuck doing that all day); offers to help wash dirty dishes; and so on and so forth.
Because I am currently working with this mandolin and guitar group and it is keeping me busy (musically speaking), I am not going to try to start a band of my own right now.
As for being "jaded", after playing music for forty-something years, I am way beyond being "jaded'.
When bands from out-of-town or out-of-state come here to perform, we are usually there to listen if we can afford the tickets but I was referring to performing with local bands. If all I am asked to do is listen instead of being asked to perform with them, that is still insulting to me. Of course, some people will never, ever think you are good enough to perform with them no matter how many hundreds of years you spend "paying your dues" as a musician.
I think I have a perfect right to be bitter about the way I have been treated sometime.
As for whether or not this is an appropriate subject for this web site, since we are discussing music, I think it is more appropriate than discussing the current economic situation (such as a certain government bailout) or religious preferences or beliefs or politics.
I felt as if I was being told by the Celtic Music Society that I was no longer needed or wanted as their pianist and there was this other group called the Rackensack Folklore Society that did want me to play my bass fiddle with them. Rackensack specializes in playing so-called old-time music which people used to play before we had modern conveniences such as computers, television, radios, paved roads, railroads, flush toilets, indoor plumbing, screens, telephones, telegraphs, etc.
Several years ago, when I damaged my electronic keyboard by accidentally dropping it, the repairs did cost a lot of money.
Two years ago, when I accidentally damaged my bass fiddle while I was trying to load it into my car after the monthly Rackensack meeting, yes it did cost a lot to repair it also.
The members of Rackensack took up a collection to help me pay for the repairs and half of the members of Rackensack are senior citizens who are retired and living on what the economists call "fixed incomes" (that Social Security which isn't so secure).
None of the members of the Celtic Music Society offered to help pay for the repairs to my keyboard and that was more expensive than the bass fiddle repair.
Which group do you think I would prefer to play music with based on this?
My goal isn't to make money by playing music. Instead, I just want to be able to spend as much of my time as possible playing music when I am not working at my day job at a local hospital.
thats the problem with you. you only want to play. you only want to listen to yourself. You say your goal isnt to make money from the music yet you want to get up on stage, into bands and play and put on a performance. if it IS NOT about making money then whats the problem with playing in sessions? form what i read you think you are too good to play just in a MERE session. and you are right about one thing, you really are bitter. and the funny thing is (for us not for you) that people like that usually fade into the background. I pity you for being the way you are.
Attention Irish musicians of Arkansas ~ fauxcelt is worthy of playing in your session or band. I hope they are tuned in so we can all get some resolution.
Confusing, mixed messages
Confusing, mixed messages
In 1995, when some other local musicians started an Irish Session here, I showed up at the second session and told them what I played (piano and bass). When I asked if I could join them, they insisted that I should bring my electronic keyboard and play it as a piano in order to fill out the sound as my contribution to the general cacophony.
Shortly after this, the same musicians who had started the sessions decided to start a band and they invited me to join the band. So, for the next two years, I played piano with a similar-minded group of mixed nuts who liked Irish music. Since this band broke up in 1998, four or five other bands or musical groups have been formed by various musicians who participate regularly in the local sessions.
Except for one occasion last year when a fiddler was trying to start a ceili band, I haven't been invited to join and/or perform with any of the other bands which have been started by other musicians from the local sessions. I have been invited to come and listen to the various bands.
What is confusing to me is that these same musicians who have started all of these bands but haven't invited me to perform with them go out of their way to make me feel welcome at the local sessions. So far as I can tell, they seem to be glad when I show up and participate by playing my electronic piano.
They want me at the sessions but (with two exceptions), they don't want me in their other musical groups outside of the sessions such as bands.
If I couldn't keep up with the other musicians at the local sessions and didn't know what I was doing, I wouldn't be at all welcome at the local sessions.
I ignored the offer from the fiddler about the ceili band. I felt insulted that a ceili band was the only musical group that someone thought I was a good enough musician to be invited to join. Also, this same fiddler didn't ask me to help accompany the dancers at a local Celtic Festival a few years ago either.
This is confusing. First, this fiddler says no and then (one year later) this person changes their mind and says yes.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Bands are financial as well as musical and social arrangements.
If they're contracted as (for example) a three-piece, then a keyboard/piano may be a luxury they can't afford.
They don't seem to have a problem with you socially or musically, so I'd suggest that it's other considerations, whether it be financial, logistical, PA/acoustic requirements, or just that they don't need another musician for the moment. I wouldn't take it personally - a lot of musicians are socially inept anyway so it's no good being sensitive around them
Only thing to do is start your own band!
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Bren
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
A band is a funny thing - it has its own personality and style. Maybe
you don't have right "look" or the right stage presence? It might be
musical, it might be non-musical.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Hup
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you....
It's hard to assess your situation without seeing the interactions in person. Hell, most of us don't understand the social manueverings of our own sessions, let alone one going on a thousand miles away.
But that never stops us session.orgers from weighing in.
Bear in mind that piano is rarely a staple of Irish bands. A few solo melody players duo up with piano (Brian Conway and Felix Dolan, Eamonn and Geraldine Cotter, etc.), but other than Cherish the Ladies, I can't think of a touring "name" band in this music that has a piano as part of the mix.
Ceili bands are a different matter. Lacking a rabid pack of accordions, a piano would be welcome to help thump out the beat for dancers.
Sounds like your local session is welcoming and inclusive. Bands are almost never either of those. That's the point of forming a band--to include ONLY the players (i.e., personalities) and sounds you want. No one is obligated to invite you to join. No matter how good a musician you are, you aren't entitled to belong to someone else's band. That's life.
A good option for you might be to form your own band. Who among the locals would you ask to join you? (Remember that just because someone is already in a band doesn't mean they can't be in yours, too.)
Good luck!
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
It could be as simple as not wanting an electronic instrument as part of the band sound and image. I know that wouldn't fit well with how my session mates and I think of performing this music, whereas we'd more likely accept e-keyboard (and we have) at our session.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Bren's point about the money is spot on. When we gig, we keep our group small so (a) the client can afford us, and (b) we each get a bigger piece of the pie. If three or four of us can do a gig, there's absolutely no reason to add another, even among friends.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Move to Cape Breton, where a typical band seems to be a fiddler and a keyboard player.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by oldstrings
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Some people don't want you in their gang? S0 you moan about it to a bunch of strngers? The world's gone mad
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
fauxcelt, be careful what you wish for.
Remember, they call it "Show Business," not "Show Art." (Or "Show Tradition." Or "Show Friendship.")
I could go on.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Or maybe count your blessings for what you have- I don't think a keyboard , especially electric would be welcome in a session in Ireland ;)
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Actually, I've seen a lot of sessions in Ireland with electric keyboards. Sometimes they're excellent, and then they're very welcome.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
To llig, way way off topic: The last time I heard that expression ("the world's gone mad") was in a B&B in north Wales, from an elderly Englishman, about Grunge rock. (I lived in Seattle at the time--his wife was very proud that she knew about Grunge.)
Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Grunge Rock. NIce town that.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
" I felt insulted that a ceili band was the only musical group that someone thought I was a good enough musician to be invited to join."
Why? Actually, that's where the money is to made..in Scotland, at least.
Good ceilidh bands always seem to get regular work albeit of a "bread and butter" variety as ceilidh dancing is very popular with tourists and locals alike. Also, there's a great demand for ceilidh bands for weddings, functions etc. However, even the better and more popular "listening" bands struggle to find enough work in their local area and have to travel much further afield.
However, reading the comments here I'd suggest that Will has it about right. Keyboards have "traditionally" been much more accepted in ceilidh bands. They can be welcome in sessions too but it really depends on the location, style of music, and players involved. There would be a great difference between a full blown Shetland Session in The Lounge, Lerwick and an Irish session in Sandy Bells, for instance.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by John J.
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Q) what is the definition of optomism?
A) A goat-basher with an answering machine
People don't come beating a path to musicians doors, begging them to come and play. You have to do some networking, and not just in sessions.
Assuming you have the dot-reading skills and ear for harmony, you need to make it known you are available, advertise the fact and make sure the local musicians know who you are, what you can do, and the fact you are available at short notice to stand in..
If you can't beat 'em, form your own band, then you can have the upper hand and decide which fiddlers you want to shun.
Agreeing with the others, economics dont warrant a keyboard player, and to be honest, other instruments can (attempt to) play background piano and bass using midi.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Start your own band for a change?
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
I was trying to think of a few bands with keyboards doing the rounds and these sprang to mind.
Beoga, Slide, North Cregg, Vishten, the Brian Pickell Band, Beolach, Buille, Arcady (3), Capercaille and there are tons of others that I can't think of.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Band politics are written in water and graspable as the wind, a zone of mystery beyond the ken of the reasonable sciences, even more than session politics.
But it's no insult to be asked to play in a ceilidh band, as such. A good ceilidh band - the only kind worth bothering with - is miles more than a bunch of indifferent players playing dreck because they don't cut the mustard as concert trad gods. In my area the musos at the top of their game have played regularly or frequently in ceilidh bands. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, there is often more work for ceilidh bands than they can take up - but bands do have to be dedicated / reliable, well organised, and au fait with sound systems and the nature of the dances themselves.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
I played in a band once with two keyboard players with 7 keyboards between them. Lets see if I can remember them:
2 x Juno 106
JX8P
DX7
M1
Some Akia sampler I can't remember the name of.
And some box of sounds called a "proteus" or something. I remember that the piano on that was excellent
All classics of their time.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
well someone thinks highly of themselves! lol. so what if ur not in the bands or ceili band. big deal. and its not an insult to be ask to play in a ceili band, thats usually where most of the money is, people are always looking for music for ceilis. this is like a bloody playground sometimes. stop whinging!
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Band shmand. Who cares? People actually get upset because they don't have to act like a trained monkey? "Play monkey! Play more! Entertain us! Perform for us!" THBBPT!
There's nothing insulting about a ceili band. It's better than some new age Celtic rock nonsense, or some 'trad' band that doesn't make any money because it's trying to foist session and ceili music on audiences that want a big fancy performance.
In short, let me tell you how I really feel...
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
when I was young, all my friends were musicians. It does sort of suck when you get left out of a group when some of your best friends are putting it together, but that's just how it goes.
One of my best friends joined this one local band just to do something different. We were living together and working in a blues band together, so Rodney just wanted to go play with Luke and Dave on the side.
But damned if they didn't turn out to be more popular than the bands we did together!
So it just works out like that. If you have enough musicians in your life, you end up getting cut out of bands no matter who you are.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Fauxcelt, no worries, you can join our adult soccer league. ;)
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by skin&bow
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
You can join my imaginary band if you like, fauxcelt.
I'm in a band. There's three of us ... but one of us is dead. Bloody brilliant player though ...
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
if you believe in what you're doing, invite some of your session buddies to join your new band, Their repsponses will answer your question,
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Hang in there fauxcelt! The offerings above which are actual advice are perfectly sound. Don't get discouraged.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Many a battered musician has surrendered to the temptation of joining an imaginary band. This should be your last resort. Exhaust all other possibilities first; the next-to-last being public performances of "air Trad." Only when this falls through, should you disappear into your attic. Things don't have to come to this.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
I've just re-read my post above, and now realise that it's ambiguous. To clarify:
The first sentence was in reference to my imaginary band. Which is imaginary. And you'd be very welcome to join it, fauxcelt. Or anyone for that matter.
The second sentence was in reference to the actual band I'm actually in.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Having played piano with an acoustic, guitar dominant group, I think I know what you are getting at. What you may be running is an obsessive 'purism' about plucked strings that several of our box bangers had. A real pain in the arse........
They tend to be very antipathetic towards any non-stringed instrument.
I was lucky in my case because our main audience-as well as the style that was coming in vogue thanks to the likes of the Amy Grantesque types, the Eagles, and those God-aweful over produced Irish things on PBS- featured a wider variety of insturments.
The box bangers accepted the increased adulation....but still bitched and moaned about any non-fretted instrument. Still, they would tolerate say flutes and the occasional oboe...but God Forbid someone does something with a trumpet. Several guys would just sit at that point.
Since you are playing in a traditionally skewed situation, you probably are experiencing deep seated biases.
I experienced the flip side the other day. I was asked to play in a funeral mass the other day. The vocalists sang a reasonably contemporary brand of religious tripe usually accompanied by someone strumming 4/4 chords generally consistent with a the arrangement of a piano trained music editor who fancied him/herself as Padarewski, or Billy Joel.
The spouse of the guest of honor only wanted "real" instruments like church organ, violin (as opposed to fiddle) and flute. Packed up my guitar at that point.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
benhall 1 ~ Is there a lot of drinking in your imaginary band? I've been there.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
"Is there a lot of drinking ...?"
I imagine there is ...
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
My band is bluudy beautiful ... it gets gigs in the most incredible places ... and I get to meet loads and loads of lovely ghosts who just can't wait to hear me play ... old bachelors swoon and even ask me out for tea and cake (anything to stop the racket hey!) ... or there's the mannequin in the old gaol ... not only is he incarcerated but he's also frozen ... sigh ... a really captive audience ... but well dressed (if a tad inappropriately for the climate). Then yesterday, me neighbour, who's in the University of the Third Age, had some sort of garden sumthing and the cars were lined down the street ... so I opened my doors and I let 'em have it. They got serenaded whether they liked it or not. Then there's always blathering and skiting somewhere at the showground in Blatherskite Park, Thurs - Sunday (its closed the rest of the week while they spray it liberally with our sewage) ... its always guaranteed to give you a good itch if you haven't already got one!!!
... no ... seriously Fauxcelt, it isn't you, its them ... they can't see a good thing under their noses ... I once got invited to someone's house to play tunes (I was led to believe), and I went, only to find out much later that it had actually been a band audition and I failed. People who play games with other people's lives in such a way aren't worth the trouble. Bluudy sneaky. They aren't friends and its quite easy to quietly lose them on the way.
You'd be very welcome to join me serenadin' the mannequin in the old gaol any old day.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Clear Drops ~ A ballerina retired to the desert of Death Valley. Out there, in the real middle of nowhere, she set up a tiny ballet theater; and would give performances every night, whether she had an audience or not. This was a while back. She may have passed on by now. I vote we draft her (or her shade) into the communal imaginary band. Yes, ballet dancing is not diddley; but this is one of our people all the same!
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
fauzcelt, don't take it personally. As people have said above, people form different bands for different reasons, are going for different sounds, only have so much money to share around which limits the sizes. Even if they didn't ask you before, if someone asks you again to join in, don't hold their earlier decision against them--maybe your playing recently has impressed them, maybe the sound they are now going for fits your keyboard playing. And we are all at different levels in our playing, different people mesh together differently. Again, bottom line, don't take the band stuff personally. And besides, I know from bitter experience that working together can be the quickest way to destroy a good friendship....
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
By the way, benhall, I imagine I would fit well in your band, and I imagine I would play like Billy McComisky!!!!!!
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Done Atahualpa Quigley ... and I assume when you use the "communal" in "communal imaginary band" that you're in it too ... everybody welcome! OOOooooo now we could go up market and set up under the sails in the pedestrian mall ... wow! ... or ... perhaps we'd all fit (a bit squashed) into a jewellry box lined with mirrors and red felt ... we could all start off together when anyone lifts the lid. Magic!
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Clear Drops ...my youngest had a fairy castle that played music when the key was wound. Perhaps the band could take on a second gig playing from the gallery...after we got paid for the jewellery box gig, of course.
Another thought for FC - what about taking on the ceilidh band gig, playing your heart out and thus impressing everyone with your undeniable musical talent - then sitting back waiting for gobsmacked band leaders to beat a path to your door with requests to play in their bands? Beats playing in an imaginary band - even if the drinks are served with tiny umbrellas.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
... golly we'll have to be soooooo careful. It wouldn't do to double book, but a gig on the gallery of a clockwork fairy castle sounds like it might be alright ta me. Wait a bit, better check it with the ballet dancer.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Ladies, don't rush things. The up-market stuff can wait. Start slowly; serenade the coyotes for a few late-night engagements, until you get the right sound. Next, win over other animals. See if your music can captivate the diurnals. Build momentum, expand your fan base. Then it will be time for pedestrian malls.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
OOOooo look, already we have dissent and sexism in the band
and we don't even have an imaginary name yet. I had thought perhaps, in the light of the above "Howlin' to da Moooooon" or something nocturnal like that ... but do we really have to practice before we launch outselves on the world?
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Practicing one's music helps no end, I've found. Best to commit to lots of practice. Sooner or later, an imaginary band must emerge out into a world, however imaginary. Coyotes are the best critics, as they are a real discriminatin' bunch. If you can play their venues, you can play anywhere. Of course it might be wise to debut in a very tiny venue, such as a jewelry box; this could be a real confidence builder. BUT, to play there, night after night, would be soul destroying.
# Posted on September 27th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Thank you for all of your responses--even Michael Gill who is as backward as he always is. If I wanted to be as backward as Michael, I would have to call myself "Ecnerual" instead of "fauxcelt".
I don't need to play music at the local Irish sessions to get it out of my system because there are other jam sessions where I am welcome to sit in and play. I have mentioned some of the other jam sessions in my other comments. I don't need the local Irish sessions but the other musicians at the Irish session seem to need me--or, at least, that is the impression I am getting from them.
For Bren and the others who suggested that I start my own band, I am already playing my bass fiddle on a regular basis (every week) with a mandolin and guitar group. We have two mandolins and three guitars besides myself on bass.
We all have day jobs and like to play music in our free time. Two members of this group are psychiatrists, one person is an attorney, and the other two are music teachers.
I have been making music with this group of mixed nuts for a few years and I am enjoying it. Yes, we do try to make complete and total fools of ourselves by performing in public occasionally.
We use sheet music and we play music by famous composers such as J.S. Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Mozart, Couperin, Telemann, Mendelssohn, Haydn, Scarlatti, Faure, Purcell, and Clementi as well as not-so-famous composers such as Hasse, Albinoni, Haslinger, Seixas, Cimarosa, Krebs, Tischner, Kabalevsky, Pachelbel, and Scott Joplin. We even play some pieces by contemporary composers such as Pamela Wedgwood (Great Britain) and Dieter Kreidler (Germany).
Working with this mandolin and guitar group has been both fun and challenging for me. I didn't mention this band in my original post because this group of mixed nuts doesn't play Irish or Scottish music.
As for me complaining about this to a group of virtual strangers, the two psychiatrists in the mandolin and guitar group seem to think I am beyond professional help and I am sure my wife would agree with this assessment.
I am not playing music to make money. I play music because it is one of the few things in life which I genuinely enjoy doing. For me, it is a good escape and a good way to get away from my job as a medical clerk in the intensive care unit at a hospital.
We will probably never travel to Cape Breton or Ireland because there are too many other places we would like to visit first.
I don't know whether or not it is possible to make money playing in a ceili band in Arkansas nor do I care.
A few years ago, the Arkansas Celtic Music Society began putting on a Celtic Festival once a year and I went to the first one. My offers to volunteer to help with the Festival were completely ignored.
Nor was I asked to contribute musically. For example, if I had been asked whether or not I would be willing to try to accompany the dancers, my reply would have been: "Yes, I will glad to play music for the dancers if someone (such as a fiddle or flute or box) will play the melody and they need me to accompany them while the fiddler or flautist or box player plays for the dancing." However, nobody ever asked me if I was interested in playing music for the dancers. I never got the opportunity to say yes or no to playing for the dancers. Then the fiddler who was going to play for the dancers made it clear that she wanted only a certain guitarist to accompany her so I left and went home.
Then, the next year after this first Celtic Festival, this same fiddler was the person who tried to persuade me to play piano with a ceili band which she was trying to start.
I haven't gone to any of the yearly Celtic Festivals since the first one. If any of you would like more information about these Festivals, you can go to the web site of the Arkansas Celtic Music Society.
Ceolachan, it was your comments about exclusion and inclusion in a recent post which started me thinking about this situation.
One of these days, Real Soon Now, I fully intend to put some samples of my piano playing either on YouTube and/or SoundLantern so all of you can get some idea of just how good or how awful my playing actually is.
At all of the jam sessions where I play music, if I couldn't play well enough to keep up with the other musicians, I would be told to leave instead of being invited to come back. Apparently, I must be doing something right when I am at these jam sessions because otherwise, I wouldn't be invited to come back again.
Clear Drops, I have been in similar situations a few time where other people "can't see a good thing under their noses". It is a familiar feeling for me.
I didn't mean to come across as complaining or whining because I am more confused and puzzled by this situation than anything else.
# Posted on September 27th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
thats the problem. why do you feel that you SHOULD be in the band or whatever? thats not actually a real problem, it reads like a load of school yard tripe, its like 'oh my friend started a club but i wasn't asked to be in it' type c r a p. givus a break. and come on, you say that the other musicians in the session 'need' you but you dont REALLY need them. how f'ing arrogant is that! what gives you the right to say that they 'need' you? does a session with five fiddles really 'need' all those fiddles? no, but thats just the way it is. sorry to break it to you but you come across as a bit of a knob. you say that you are invited back to play in the session. you make it sound like an audition, but you don't realise that that is one situation, the whole setting up of a band is different. just because you play in a session with these people doesn't mean they're obligated to ask you to join the band, that is a completely seperate entity from the session. you say you have been in similar situations a few times where other people can't see a good thing under their noses, and it is a familiar feeling for you. maybe there is a reason for that. who are you to say what people's tastes are? even if you are good that doesn't mean that people should automatically like you. you also say you play for enjoyment. how can that be true when you are so consumed with this band nonsense! if you really did play for just the love and not to make money than there would be no thread. you already play at the session you talk about, do you not enjoy playing at that? why do you feel that you have to have your hand in everything that is organised in your area? i get the idea that you have a distorted view of yourself and the trad scene and that a lot of your last comment is not genuine. you contradict yourself constantly throughout. or maybe it is genuine and you actually just dont have a clue.
you sound jaded and need to grow up and stop clogging this site with pathetic posts like this.
# Posted on September 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Going by the words and the actions and behavior of the other musicians at the local session, they do seem to want me to be there to play the piano. I am sure they don't need me just so they can have a session and that is fine with me because I have no desire and no wish whatsoever to be indispensable to the success or failure of the local session.
Yes, there will always be people who can't truly appreciate you until it is too late. There have been people in my life who I didn't really appreciate until they were gone.
Then there are the people who have mistaken ideas about what I should be good at or should enjoy. They never seem to have heard the old saying about the difficulty of fitting a square peg into a round hole.
As for being more involved in the local music scene, I am not the type of person who likes to just sit there and listen or just do one thing such as only playing piano at the sessions. I do like to volunteer and help in situations where I might be able to do something useful instead of letting others do all of the work and all of the heavy lifting.
The fiddler whom I mentioned is a member of this web site and you can contact her under the name "bonniefiddler" if you want to get her side of the story.
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
If I am contradicting myself, then I am merely being a normal, imperfect, confused human being.
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
thats fine. its good that you all seem to genuinely enjoy each others company. thats fine if you feel the need to help to give others a break, but you're giving people the wrong impression when you write here about feeling bitter and your suspicions of people about your offer for help being turned down. why should you feel so paranoid, if someone turns down your offer maybe its because they actualy would want you to contribute by being a good listener and attending the events. you even say that you've been invited to come and listen to bands regularly. being a supporter and good listener in that capacity is just as important to a tradition like this as it is organising festivals and promoting music in bands. maybe people are paying you a compliment if they ask you to listen to their group perform or to support a festival just by being there.
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
As a friend (who is an exceptional musician) in Ireland once said to me after I was frozen out of a session "Sometimes people just dont want to play with you". And fair enough - sometimes I dont want to play with some people. You're reading far too much into all of this fauxcelt - I mean- you cant invite everyone into a band can you? Because then it isnt a band - its a session on stage. I really dont see the problem.....
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by bb
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Thank you for your responses but I am still disappointed, puzzled, and confused by the behavior and actions of the other musicians.
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Right on bb!
Bands play gigs.
Session mates session. Make the most of which ever one you are doing at the moment.
Enjoy your session fauxcelt. Is this confusing? ~ If you want to play in a band form one.
;)
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Fauxcelt, I reckon you're quite lucky in that you do already get your musical rocks off in more than one context.
However, the lack of bonding in ITM work is obviously getting to you. It seems to me that one aspect is the fiddler that didn't want your assistance at one time, then invited you to join in a different unit, at which point YOU turned HER down. Who's complaining about mixed messages ? I reckon she had a thing for the guitarist she worked with previously, and maybe has now got over it, but I could be wrong. It wouldn't hurt to try and have a serious heart -to-heart with her to resolve this burning issue.
Meanwhile, nobody's perfect, communication is not always clear, and the repeated message here seems to be 'form your own band'. Then people can feel hurt when YOU don't invite THEM.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
If this fiddler had a "thing" for the guitarist, I am sure both of their spouses would be shocked and surprised to learn that. This fiddler has been married to the same man long enough to have two children (a boy and a girl) who are now going to college.
The son seems to have inherited all of his mother's musical talent and ability (yes I have heard him play).
There are no romantic feelings involved--just a desire to spend as much of my time as possible doing something I genuinely enjoy which is playing music.
If there is one group of musicians who tell me that they just want me to listen and don't want me to play while there is another group of musicians who definitely want me to play music with them, which group do you think I would prefer to spend my free time with?
Also, I would have liked to do more to help at the Celtic Festival besides just playing music for the dancers. When I said my offers to help were ignored, I meant offers to help sit at the door and sell tickets; offers to help serve food such as potatoes (the fiddler volunteered her husband to serve the potatoes and he got stuck doing that all day); offers to help wash dirty dishes; and so on and so forth.
Because I am currently working with this mandolin and guitar group and it is keeping me busy (musically speaking), I am not going to try to start a band of my own right now.
As for being "jaded", after playing music for forty-something years, I am way beyond being "jaded'.
When bands from out-of-town or out-of-state come here to perform, we are usually there to listen if we can afford the tickets but I was referring to performing with local bands. If all I am asked to do is listen instead of being asked to perform with them, that is still insulting to me. Of course, some people will never, ever think you are good enough to perform with them no matter how many hundreds of years you spend "paying your dues" as a musician.
I think I have a perfect right to be bitter about the way I have been treated sometime.
As for whether or not this is an appropriate subject for this web site, since we are discussing music, I think it is more appropriate than discussing the current economic situation (such as a certain government bailout) or religious preferences or beliefs or politics.
I felt as if I was being told by the Celtic Music Society that I was no longer needed or wanted as their pianist and there was this other group called the Rackensack Folklore Society that did want me to play my bass fiddle with them. Rackensack specializes in playing so-called old-time music which people used to play before we had modern conveniences such as computers, television, radios, paved roads, railroads, flush toilets, indoor plumbing, screens, telephones, telegraphs, etc.
Several years ago, when I damaged my electronic keyboard by accidentally dropping it, the repairs did cost a lot of money.
Two years ago, when I accidentally damaged my bass fiddle while I was trying to load it into my car after the monthly Rackensack meeting, yes it did cost a lot to repair it also.
The members of Rackensack took up a collection to help me pay for the repairs and half of the members of Rackensack are senior citizens who are retired and living on what the economists call "fixed incomes" (that Social Security which isn't so secure).
None of the members of the Celtic Music Society offered to help pay for the repairs to my keyboard and that was more expensive than the bass fiddle repair.
Which group do you think I would prefer to play music with based on this?
My goal isn't to make money by playing music. Instead, I just want to be able to spend as much of my time as possible playing music when I am not working at my day job at a local hospital.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
"I have a perfect right to be bitter."
... dear oh dear
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
thats the problem with you. you only want to play. you only want to listen to yourself. You say your goal isnt to make money from the music yet you want to get up on stage, into bands and play and put on a performance. if it IS NOT about making money then whats the problem with playing in sessions? form what i read you think you are too good to play just in a MERE session. and you are right about one thing, you really are bitter. and the funny thing is (for us not for you) that people like that usually fade into the background. I pity you for being the way you are.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Confusing, mixed messages
Attention Irish musicians of Arkansas ~ fauxcelt is worthy of playing in your session or band. I hope they are tuned in so we can all get some resolution.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Ben Steen