My crappy connection caused me to lose my original message, so I'll make this short. I need to make my fiddle's fine tuning screws less slippery because the strings have been going out of tune almost immediately after I tune them lately. Does anyone know of any tricks to make the screws stickier?
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Are you sure it's the fine tuners? I've never heard of them un-screwing like that, and it would be odd to have the same problem on more than one unless they have some kind of serious design flaw.
What kind of strings are they, and how long have you had them on? It's normal for new strings to go out of tune almost immediately, and some kinds can take weeks to stabilize.
If it really is the fine tuners I don't have any ideas on fixing them, but if one of them is good you can use it for the E string and string up some synthetic strings without the fine tuners for the other strings. That would be the best temporary quick fix, unless you only have steel strings around.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Sorry, just thought of something...if it really is the fine tuners and you need to make the screws sticker, just unscrew the screw part all the way and take it out, rub it on your rosin, and screw it back in.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
What about the pegs? Possibly a change in humidity has made them slightly looser than normal though I've never seen this myself. If so just push the in a little.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Oooooh, don't put rosin on the screws--that'll gum them up for sure. They won't be "fine tuners" with threads full of gunk.
I really doubt it's the fine tuners. How "out of tune" are we talking--a cat's whisker, or a whole howling cat's worth?
Are the strings new?
Are the pegs slipping?
Is the tailpiece gut (the loop that goes around the end pin from the tailpiece) slipping?
Is the end pin loose or slipping out?
Is the bridge leaning or bending?
Is the top cracked?
Is the neck joint loose?
I'd suspect all of those before blaming the fine tuners....
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Is the air conditioning on? Summers are hard on my intonation - some of the pubs here are kept at about 5 cents above meatlocker, so my supposedly stable Helicores are out of tune all the time there
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
It is pretty hot and humid in here, actually. This is my first summer playing the thing, so I'm not familiar with the effects of humidity on it. And all that stuff seems fine, Will, and the strings are almost two months old.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
So how out of tune does it go? All the strings, or just one or two? What sort of temperature and humidity changes does the fiddle go through between bouts of playing?
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Hi Whiddler. I like your name by the way. Yep, I have had fine tuners that have somehow loosened, but all I did was get the fine nose pliers and give them a tighten from under and over where the parts screw into each other (if you know what I mean). Now, I've also had peg troubles in the past and if your problem is with the pegs, I got some great advice and help from here. http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13978
I needed a temporary quick fix. Dow's advice, to glue the pegs within range of fine tuning with the brown sugar syrup, worked where all else failed. It set rock solid and no slip ... its was great for a quick fix on a cheap disposible instrument. I didn't bother getting it fixed properly ... but if I could have, I would have taken it into a violin luthier ... and I recon in your case, that would be the way I would go. There may be problems with your setup and it would be best to solve them now, rather than later when things can only get worse. Good luck ... oh, and I stopped using Zylec strings (way too thick and tennis raquet like) and went back to just using the strings available in the music shop, if in fact it is the strings that are the problem?
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
One possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the string slipping on the peg. If this is what is happening you can do this to avoid it.
When you put string onto the peg overlap the first winding of the string over the free end of the string as it leaves the peg-hole. Try to have this free end directed away from the peg finger grip. Then continue winding the string back over the peg-hole towards the peg grip. The object of this is to have a slight angle on the section of string within the peg-box to pull the peg into the peg-box.
Keep the windings as close to each other as you can - this provides extra friction to keep the string steady and to stop it sliding laterally along the peg.
When winding the string onto the peg hold the string taut away from the fingerboard with a finger of your free hand about halfway along the string for as long as you can until the string is wound firmly onto the peg. Then complete the tuning in the usual manner with peg and fine tuner.
Don't let the last winding of the string touch the inside of the pegbox. This makes peg tuning easier and the strings to last longer.
Apply some pencil graphite to the grooves in the nut and the bridge. This will help stop the strings from sticking when tuning.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
I forgot to mention that one of the most useful tools to have in a fiddle case is tweezers - particularly to coax the end of the A-string (almost always black) into a black hole drilled in a black peg in the darkness of the most inaccessible part of the peg-box. A miniature torch can also be useful, as is a pair of nail-scissors to trim the frayed end of a used spare string if you're re-using it.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
I'd vote for a peg problem - fine tuners are very unlikely to slip, as the mechanical advantage is so bad.
But it could be a number of other problems, including the knot slowly slipping on the tailpiece cord, or a more nasty constructional collapse that you're unaware of yet.
Best thing, definitely, take it to a good luthier or shop, and hope it's peg slipidge and easily cured.
i have to say that I love many aspects of the US, but the summer humidity I don't miss, nor what it does to instruments.
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
“the knot slowly slipping on the tail-piece cord” - the tail-piece cord snapping (rare) – the end nut breaking off (not quite so rare). This results in one of the more spectacular events in an orchestra (except for the concert platform subsiding under the weight of the grand piano).
About 50 lbs of string tension is suddenly released into the environment in a tiny fraction of a second - there is a loud band, the bridge flies every which way across the room, possibly in several pieces, the sound post may feel inclined to go walkabout inside the fiddle, the bass bar may loosen under the sudden trauma, as could some of the glued joints, and, if you're very lucky, the tail-piece does NOT get dragged across the belly of the fiddle, doing expensive damage to it, both cosmetic and structural.
If this ever happens on a cello (actually, I've never known it happen) the string tension involved is more than double that of the fiddle, and there is the added danger of the tail-piece flying up towards the player's face.
I must admit that I'd like to see a laboratory experiment carried out using a high-speed camera to see what vibrations are set up in the instrument with this very sudden event.
Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
My crappy connection caused me to lose my original message, so I'll make this short. I need to make my fiddle's fine tuning screws less slippery because the strings have been going out of tune almost immediately after I tune them lately. Does anyone know of any tricks to make the screws stickier?
# Posted on August 28th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Are you sure it's the fine tuners? I've never heard of them un-screwing like that, and it would be odd to have the same problem on more than one unless they have some kind of serious design flaw.
What kind of strings are they, and how long have you had them on? It's normal for new strings to go out of tune almost immediately, and some kinds can take weeks to stabilize.
If it really is the fine tuners I don't have any ideas on fixing them, but if one of them is good you can use it for the E string and string up some synthetic strings without the fine tuners for the other strings. That would be the best temporary quick fix, unless you only have steel strings around.
# Posted on August 28th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Sorry, just thought of something...if it really is the fine tuners and you need to make the screws sticker, just unscrew the screw part all the way and take it out, rub it on your rosin, and screw it back in.
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
What about the pegs? Possibly a change in humidity has made them slightly looser than normal though I've never seen this myself. If so just push the in a little.
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by jerryb
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
sorry - push them
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by jerryb
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Oooooh, don't put rosin on the screws--that'll gum them up for sure. They won't be "fine tuners" with threads full of gunk.
I really doubt it's the fine tuners. How "out of tune" are we talking--a cat's whisker, or a whole howling cat's worth?
Are the strings new?
Are the pegs slipping?
Is the tailpiece gut (the loop that goes around the end pin from the tailpiece) slipping?
Is the end pin loose or slipping out?
Is the bridge leaning or bending?
Is the top cracked?
Is the neck joint loose?
I'd suspect all of those before blaming the fine tuners....
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Is the air conditioning on? Summers are hard on my intonation - some of the pubs here are kept at about 5 cents above meatlocker, so my supposedly stable Helicores are out of tune all the time there
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by airport
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
It is pretty hot and humid in here, actually. This is my first summer playing the thing, so I'm not familiar with the effects of humidity on it. And all that stuff seems fine, Will, and the strings are almost two months old.
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
So how out of tune does it go? All the strings, or just one or two? What sort of temperature and humidity changes does the fiddle go through between bouts of playing?
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Hi Whiddler. I like your name by the way. Yep, I have had fine tuners that have somehow loosened, but all I did was get the fine nose pliers and give them a tighten from under and over where the parts screw into each other (if you know what I mean). Now, I've also had peg troubles in the past and if your problem is with the pegs, I got some great advice and help from here.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13978
I needed a temporary quick fix. Dow's advice, to glue the pegs within range of fine tuning with the brown sugar syrup, worked where all else failed. It set rock solid and no slip ... its was great for a quick fix on a cheap disposible instrument. I didn't bother getting it fixed properly ... but if I could have, I would have taken it into a violin luthier ... and I recon in your case, that would be the way I would go. There may be problems with your setup and it would be best to solve them now, rather than later when things can only get worse. Good luck ... oh, and I stopped using Zylec strings (way too thick and tennis raquet like) and went back to just using the strings available in the music shop, if in fact it is the strings that are the problem?
# Posted on August 29th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Get new fine tuners?
# Posted on August 30th 2008 by highlake
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Do not put rosin on the pegs.Use peg soap.If you can't find it,a graphite pencil will do the trick;http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11653/comments
# Posted on August 31st 2008 by dafydd
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Hiderpaste worked great in my cheap fiddle:
http://tinyurl.com/6fqu2f
# Posted on August 31st 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Isn't graphite a lubricant?
I only use a fine tuner on my e string.
# Posted on August 31st 2008 by wyogal
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Graphite is magic stuff for pegs. It is indeed a lubricant. And yet it helps them stick as well. Magic, eh?
# Posted on August 31st 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
One possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the string slipping on the peg. If this is what is happening you can do this to avoid it.
When you put string onto the peg overlap the first winding of the string over the free end of the string as it leaves the peg-hole. Try to have this free end directed away from the peg finger grip. Then continue winding the string back over the peg-hole towards the peg grip. The object of this is to have a slight angle on the section of string within the peg-box to pull the peg into the peg-box.
Keep the windings as close to each other as you can - this provides extra friction to keep the string steady and to stop it sliding laterally along the peg.
When winding the string onto the peg hold the string taut away from the fingerboard with a finger of your free hand about halfway along the string for as long as you can until the string is wound firmly onto the peg. Then complete the tuning in the usual manner with peg and fine tuner.
Don't let the last winding of the string touch the inside of the pegbox. This makes peg tuning easier and the strings to last longer.
Apply some pencil graphite to the grooves in the nut and the bridge. This will help stop the strings from sticking when tuning.
# Posted on September 1st 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
I forgot to mention that one of the most useful tools to have in a fiddle case is tweezers - particularly to coax the end of the A-string (almost always black) into a black hole drilled in a black peg in the darkness of the most inaccessible part of the peg-box. A miniature torch can also be useful, as is a pair of nail-scissors to trim the frayed end of a used spare string if you're re-using it.
# Posted on September 1st 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
maybe the screw on the fine tuner is stripped
# Posted on September 1st 2008 by wyogal
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
I'd vote for a peg problem - fine tuners are very unlikely to slip, as the mechanical advantage is so bad.
But it could be a number of other problems, including the knot slowly slipping on the tailpiece cord, or a more nasty constructional collapse that you're unaware of yet.
Best thing, definitely, take it to a good luthier or shop, and hope it's peg slipidge and easily cured.
i have to say that I love many aspects of the US, but the summer humidity I don't miss, nor what it does to instruments.
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
Er ... all those things are useful, Trevor. That's why I carry a Swiss Army Knife in my case. (Except on planes, of course.)
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
“the knot slowly slipping on the tail-piece cord” - the tail-piece cord snapping (rare) – the end nut breaking off (not quite so rare). This results in one of the more spectacular events in an orchestra (except for the concert platform subsiding under the weight of the grand piano).
About 50 lbs of string tension is suddenly released into the environment in a tiny fraction of a second - there is a loud band, the bridge flies every which way across the room, possibly in several pieces, the sound post may feel inclined to go walkabout inside the fiddle, the bass bar may loosen under the sudden trauma, as could some of the glued joints, and, if you're very lucky, the tail-piece does NOT get dragged across the belly of the fiddle, doing expensive damage to it, both cosmetic and structural.
If this ever happens on a cello (actually, I've never known it happen) the string tension involved is more than double that of the fiddle, and there is the added danger of the tail-piece flying up towards the player's face.
I must admit that I'd like to see a laboratory experiment carried out using a high-speed camera to see what vibrations are set up in the instrument with this very sudden event.
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fine tuners slipping... need temporary quick fix
"loud bang" - not "loud band"!
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Trevor Jennings