I started playing about with vibrato about a month ago with the aim of using it tastefully in slow airs (strictly when appropriate).
The wrist movement is becoming a lot more comfortable and consistent but I’m still finding it very hard to produce a clean note as when I use vibrato the fiddle moves about a bit making it difficult to keep the desired bow pressure.
Has anybody got any advice on this? Does it just take time to be able to play with vibrato and keep the violin motionless? Or do you learn to cope with the movement?
Why is your fiddle moving? Are you pressing too hard? I've used vibrato for 40 years and don't experience this. My vibrato originates in the arm, translates to the fingers, relaxed wrist.
The fiddle shouldn't move at all when doing vibrato. It's hard to say what you're doing wrong without seeing you play, but you probably need to relax.
If the fiddle is bobbing up and down, you are probably pressing down on the fingerboard as you pivot your hand forward. The pressure on the string should stay the same. It's also possible that you have a bad fiddle hold, making it hard to control. But I'm just guessing, it's impossible to say what's really going on without seeing you play.
Anyway, you need to keep the fiddle still. Keep practicing, and try to stay relaxed. It might help if you can show an experienced fiddler what you're doing and ask for advice.
I just remembered that when I was learning vibrato, my teacher would have me place my scroll against the wall (can place a cloth between the fiddle and wall), that would keep your fiddle still.
Wll done and tastefully, meaning rarely ~ appreciated. However, I have grown to hate vibrato, because mostly it is abused, as in some poor excuse for emotion in a slow air. We recently caught a concert where someone destroyed a perfectly beautiful air by using vibrato throughout. Worse, they doctored it further with the sound support by adding ceramic tilled toilet vibrato, or 'down the well' vibrato. It was, as most with a care for this music would say, dreadful.
'Vibrato' with regards to this music should be treated like any short lived ornament, it shouldn't last much more than a beat worth, like with a roll. Also, the same with a roll, it should not be so common that it loses interest, or damages the tune, as any abuse or overuse of the twiddles can do. One can usually tell when the musician is more interested in what they can show others with regards to what they can do, than interested in the music. The imbalance is usually glaring. 'Vibrato' too easily becomes another cheap trick overused. It may have its place in other traditions, but like with sean nos singing, it has 'little' place in the tradition we mostly discuss here. It detracts too often, rather than complementing... I know I'm repeating myself ~ but it is a moment, it should not dominate or carry for longer than a moment. It shouldn't tread on the melody...
Apologies sloth, you wanted 'technique'. 'Vibrato' & 'Reverb' are like waving a red flag at a bull with me... Well done and tasatefully done I can appreciate the first, sometimes. The latter, well, I can't think of it, unless it were actually a session down a well, with or without stairs, or in a ceramic tiled room...
If your fiddle is moving, you're probably trying too hard. As wyogal says, the motion starts in the forearm (or wrist), and ripples into the utterly relaxed hand and finger. No need to press harder. In fact, you'll want to check that your thumb isn't stuck to the neck but loose and slippery, and that your finger is light enough on the string that the fleshy pad is free to float back and forth.
Also, vibrato happens when your finger goes from the desired pitch, down (flat), and back. Best not to rock sharp of the desired pitch. In other words, if you're doing vibrato on the ring finger D on the A string, you go from D to slightly flat of D, back to D, ad nauseum. No "slightly sharp of D" involved. Overdoing it and trying to go sharp only adds tension to the whole exercise and sounds bad anyway.
Meanwhile, try playing a slow air without any vibrato and find other ways to express sweetness and wistfulness and sorrow and joy. Lots of other tonal options there.
benhall ~ the same response applies there. I have heard a few flute and whistle players that made my stomach turn with the abuse the exercised against a lovely air, lul-ul-ul-ul-ul-ulling it to death... Seriously, almost like sea sickness. Vibrato has probably contributed to some of the deep set wrinkles in my forehead and around my eyes that some folks think are laughter lines ~ HA, HA, HAA-AH-AH-AH-AH-AAAAAA!!!
"Tasteful vibrato" ~ where it passes almost unnoticed, just a moments worth, maybe at most one beat of a measure...
I'm biased, I admit it, but a lot of good information already here on technique, but to finish with my bias, but in the words of a respected friend ~
"Meanwhile, try playing a slow air without any vibrato and find other ways to express sweetness and wistfulness and sorrow and joy. Lots of other tonal options there." ~ Will CPT
Yeah ... I asked because, almost invariably, I would agree with you. And then every now and then you hear someone in some pub somewhere, waggling their fingers to blazes on every note, milking the air for all its worth ... and yet ... sometimes it's beautiful.
I think it's this rare glimpse of beauty while using the technique that makes all those other people, who really shouldn't, try and do it.
When it catches you, but doesn't continue to smear the melody, then your heart can appreciate the little flutter, but when the fluttering doesn't let up, well, it might not lead to a tsunami in Bolivia, but it defnintely upsets the tides of the Guinness inside me... Sometimes the beauty of the melody supercedes the abuse a musician might be doing. There are times I can listen past the fluttering... But, recently, just last week, as suggested, even the Guinness was upset by the fluttering. That said, I and my wife may have been the only ones present who weren't completely taken aback by this maudlin interpretation of a lovely air. Again, they also had the intermediary, being amplified, and applied an equal dose of heavy reverb too. There was full appreciation in the clapping that came at the end of the quiet reflective pause on a vibratoe-oe-oe-oe-oed note... But personally, I though it was dire... That's just the two of us out of maybe 100... A certain incident at an All-Ireland competition, a certain disgusting injustice, has probably gone a great way toward making me impatient where vibrato is concerned. But, I too use it ~ sparingly...including with dance tunes...
Vibrato
Vibrato
Hi,
I started playing about with vibrato about a month ago with the aim of using it tastefully in slow airs (strictly when appropriate).
The wrist movement is becoming a lot more comfortable and consistent but I’m still finding it very hard to produce a clean note as when I use vibrato the fiddle moves about a bit making it difficult to keep the desired bow pressure.
Has anybody got any advice on this? Does it just take time to be able to play with vibrato and keep the violin motionless? Or do you learn to cope with the movement?
Thanks
Jake
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by sloth
Re: Vibrato
Why is your fiddle moving? Are you pressing too hard? I've used vibrato for 40 years and don't experience this. My vibrato originates in the arm, translates to the fingers, relaxed wrist.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Vibrato
gawd ! I thought it said something else
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Vibrato
The fiddle shouldn't move at all when doing vibrato. It's hard to say what you're doing wrong without seeing you play, but you probably need to relax.
If the fiddle is bobbing up and down, you are probably pressing down on the fingerboard as you pivot your hand forward. The pressure on the string should stay the same. It's also possible that you have a bad fiddle hold, making it hard to control. But I'm just guessing, it's impossible to say what's really going on without seeing you play.
Anyway, you need to keep the fiddle still. Keep practicing, and try to stay relaxed. It might help if you can show an experienced fiddler what you're doing and ask for advice.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Vibrato
I just remembered that when I was learning vibrato, my teacher would have me place my scroll against the wall (can place a cloth between the fiddle and wall), that would keep your fiddle still.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Vibrato
Wll done and tastefully, meaning rarely ~ appreciated. However, I have grown to hate vibrato, because mostly it is abused, as in some poor excuse for emotion in a slow air. We recently caught a concert where someone destroyed a perfectly beautiful air by using vibrato throughout. Worse, they doctored it further with the sound support by adding ceramic tilled toilet vibrato, or 'down the well' vibrato. It was, as most with a care for this music would say, dreadful.
'Vibrato' with regards to this music should be treated like any short lived ornament, it shouldn't last much more than a beat worth, like with a roll. Also, the same with a roll, it should not be so common that it loses interest, or damages the tune, as any abuse or overuse of the twiddles can do. One can usually tell when the musician is more interested in what they can show others with regards to what they can do, than interested in the music. The imbalance is usually glaring. 'Vibrato' too easily becomes another cheap trick overused. It may have its place in other traditions, but like with sean nos singing, it has 'little' place in the tradition we mostly discuss here. It detracts too often, rather than complementing... I know I'm repeating myself ~ but it is a moment, it should not dominate or carry for longer than a moment. It shouldn't tread on the melody...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Vibrato~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~oh~
Apologies sloth, you wanted 'technique'. 'Vibrato' & 'Reverb' are like waving a red flag at a bull with me... Well done and tasatefully done I can appreciate the first, sometimes. The latter, well, I can't think of it, unless it were actually a session down a well, with or without stairs, or in a ceramic tiled room...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Vibrato
What do you think of that finger vibrato stuff that whistle players and flute players do, c?
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Vibrato
"Tasteful vibrato" - not sure that exists.
If your fiddle is moving, you're probably trying too hard. As wyogal says, the motion starts in the forearm (or wrist), and ripples into the utterly relaxed hand and finger. No need to press harder. In fact, you'll want to check that your thumb isn't stuck to the neck but loose and slippery, and that your finger is light enough on the string that the fleshy pad is free to float back and forth.
Also, vibrato happens when your finger goes from the desired pitch, down (flat), and back. Best not to rock sharp of the desired pitch. In other words, if you're doing vibrato on the ring finger D on the A string, you go from D to slightly flat of D, back to D, ad nauseum. No "slightly sharp of D" involved. Overdoing it and trying to go sharp only adds tension to the whole exercise and sounds bad anyway.
Meanwhile, try playing a slow air without any vibrato and find other ways to express sweetness and wistfulness and sorrow and joy. Lots of other tonal options there.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Vi~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~i ~Vibra~ah~ah~ah~ah~to~oh~oh~oh~oh~
benhall ~ the same response applies there. I have heard a few flute and whistle players that made my stomach turn with the abuse the exercised against a lovely air, lul-ul-ul-ul-ul-ulling it to death... Seriously, almost like sea sickness. Vibrato has probably contributed to some of the deep set wrinkles in my forehead and around my eyes that some folks think are laughter lines ~ HA, HA, HAA-AH-AH-AH-AH-AAAAAA!!!
"Tasteful vibrato" ~ where it passes almost unnoticed, just a moments worth, maybe at most one beat of a measure...
I'm biased, I admit it, but a lot of good information already here on technique, but to finish with my bias, but in the words of a respected friend ~
"Meanwhile, try playing a slow air without any vibrato and find other ways to express sweetness and wistfulness and sorrow and joy. Lots of other tonal options there." ~ Will CPT
That goes for wind players too...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
"finger vibrato stuff that whistle players and flute players do" ~ benhall
In moderation!!!
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Vibrato
Yeah ... I asked because, almost invariably, I would agree with you. And then every now and then you hear someone in some pub somewhere, waggling their fingers to blazes on every note, milking the air for all its worth ... and yet ... sometimes it's beautiful.
I think it's this rare glimpse of beauty while using the technique that makes all those other people, who really shouldn't, try and do it.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Vibrato
When it catches you, but doesn't continue to smear the melody, then your heart can appreciate the little flutter, but when the fluttering doesn't let up, well, it might not lead to a tsunami in Bolivia, but it defnintely upsets the tides of the Guinness inside me... Sometimes the beauty of the melody supercedes the abuse a musician might be doing. There are times I can listen past the fluttering... But, recently, just last week, as suggested, even the Guinness was upset by the fluttering. That said, I and my wife may have been the only ones present who weren't completely taken aback by this maudlin interpretation of a lovely air. Again, they also had the intermediary, being amplified, and applied an equal dose of heavy reverb too. There was full appreciation in the clapping that came at the end of the quiet reflective pause on a vibratoe-oe-oe-oe-oed note... But personally, I though it was dire... That's just the two of us out of maybe 100... A certain incident at an All-Ireland competition, a certain disgusting injustice, has probably gone a great way toward making me impatient where vibrato is concerned. But, I too use it ~ sparingly...including with dance tunes...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Vibrato
It's like a slight of hand and ear ~ now you see it, now you don't, now you hear it, now you don't. If it's constant it's grating, for me anyway...
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Vibrato
Listen to the late Willie Hunter to hear how it should be used.
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by tirvaluk