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Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Does anyone here use the LS-10, who previously used a Sony MD recorder for session recording? I wonder how the small mikes on the LS-10 compare to the litte electret stereo mikes that come with the MD players/recorders. I find the MD quality very good, especially on the PCM setting, but the mikes record extremely high end, way too treble, I have to add so much bass and filtering after to get rid of screech.
I recently got a better mike, a stereo condenser mike they recommend for the Sony MD (forget the model right now) that solves the way too treble problem, but it sounds a little muffled now.
And ease of use too... the MD is not the most user friendly, though I am used to it and it's not a big deal really... how easy is the LS-10 by comparison?
I saw a few of the LS-10s at CIAW, placed on the floor in the middle of session circels, very brave! Wonder how the recordings compared to the MD if anyone had one previously.
I have read all the online links, demos and sound clips, reviews, everything, so don't need links to these. What I am curious about is reality, not the best this thing can do as presented on line... and especially from people who switched from the MD players... and what's better or worse about them. I saw some Zoom H2s around too... though am told the quality is not as good as the MD quality... but maybe those of you who have them think otherwise?
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I don't recommend going with a minidisc recorder, as the minidisc format is on the way out. Everything is going to flash memory cards now, which is a lot more convenient.
I use an Edirol R-09. It has the best sound quality of any digital recorder I've heard, and it's small enough to drop into your pocket. It isn't cheap, though.
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Marklar, thanks for the advice.... problem is I already have the MD recorder and have had it several years and got some great use out of it. Soundwise on the PCM setting it is astounding quality. I do have to fix the treble business though, with the little stereo mike, but it's not a major big deal. So the issue is not which one to choose, because I have the MD already, but wondering if I will get the same sound quality as on the MD pretty much, in which case I will save the $300 and use it elsewhere down the line for an even better contraption, if they keep coming out with better ones.
I have heard the MD format is on the way out for years now, and I know it's mainly out and people use other recorders, but as long as I can still get the minidiscs (which I like, they are cheap enough to keep them with the music on them), and I have many packs of them and they can be reused if needed, I would continue to use it. It's a sound quality issue I wonder about, and whether the mikes on the LS-10 are any better sounding. If the LS-10 produces a better sound, that's what I really want to find out.
many recommend the Sony D-50 PCM but it's too pricey for me at $499, and I have been told that is about the same quality as the MD on the PCM setting anyway by someone who has had both. The LS-10 is smaller too than the D-50 which is nice and has a built in 2G hard drive. Has slots for up to 16G cards now too.
Mainly just a sound quality question, ease of use is secondary, but would be nice.
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I have been using a Sony MD (MZ-R700) for recording ITM sessions and concerts for some years now. If I were starting anew, i would of course go solid-state, but as I have the MD and it produces excellent results, why change?
I use a Sony ECM-MS957 condenser microphone which I seem to recall was not especially cheap but which again produces good results.
As for the lack of bass frequencies, one has to bear in mind that there is very little bass in most sessions - it's mostly at the top end. I don't think that is a problem with the MD, since when I used to put CDs onto MD (in the days before MP3 players) there was plenty of bass on the MD, if you play it back though decent headphones (Bose, in my case) or decent HiFi system. Likewise, I get good results using the microphone with a PA system so I know it's a good 'un.
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Yes.... that's the mike I got.... it makes a big difference, yet it's a bit muffled... likely me not finding the right placement yet, just got it.
I have had two different ones of those little electrets and they both sounded DIFFERENT!! vastly. One is so treble it's unusable. So maybe they vary.
I am not looking for bass in particular at a session recording but a little warmth. The little mikes made things sound brittle and not like the session... I can fix it, no big deal, but wondered if the Olympus might record better right out.
You have answered my question pretty well, And I think tweaking the new mike more as to placement will help. I just didn't want to spend $399 on a sound I can get already. I will keep on using the MD until it breaks... and it's been abused now for three years I calculate...so could be a while! It was not cheap, so would need pretty good reason to get rid of it.
I have also plugged it into the PA at some concerts we've done, on the PCM setting (remember to change to another 1G MD between sets!!) and it is very excellent. No mike used, very true sound. I have enough discs to last a lifetime I think so don't really care if the format goes out of use. I even found a way around the one time download, you can hook it into the mike input on the PC and stream into audacity or some such program, in real time of course, but I don't mind, just go off and do something else while it loads.
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I use a Zoom H2 and I'm pretty impressed by the quality.
I mainly use it to record band practice. but have also plugged it into a PA. In a PA it didn't do as well, but it might have just been the mix. You have to turn the levels on the H2 down really low or it will blow out the sound and the vocal mics tend to pick up the instruments too.
For sessions or practice, it takes a little experimentation to find out exactly where to put it and what settings to use, and those will change if people sit in a different place next week. But if you record in WAV format, you can adjust right/left front/back levels before you dump it to your computer.
It's not studio quality, but to me it sounds pretty good.
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Thanks Clevername! I also record with the volume lower on the MD, it's cleaner... you can always raise it later. Esp. via the PA. Learned the hard way!
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Re the Zoom H2 I have had the same from a PA. I think you need something that is descibed in this link (http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=11176&sid=2c61ff6c9fd8bfd436655f133d0f31f8) but it means precious litlle to me.
The output fromt he PA even at the lowest setting makes the vocals distort like mad
Sorry for the off topic post Iris but it might help the other person!
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Hi Mactavish.... this is good info.... I have to say, as long as the vol. level is low and the MD is on the PCM setting you can get a brilliant recording via a PA. Still, for live recording that is anything bordering on serious I use my Fostex MR8HD with two condenser mikes, large diaphragm, in the stereo pattern they call XY about four-five feet away from the performers, the stage. Ideally it would be great to use up to four and maybe point at each player so as to better mix things, but this works really well if you check for sound and evenness of all the instruments coming through the two channels. I run it apart from the PA and the recording is just better.
There have been places where it's not practical to set up a whole mini recording studio and I have used the MD via the PA. i have recorded whole concerts this way and it's pretty decent. Low volume coming in is the most important thing otherwise it clips all aver the place. Wonder how the LS-10 would hadle that. I could very well put the $399 for it to use elsewhere if I am going to get the same results.
Still, for off the cuff session recording, the MD player is so darn unfriendly for use. Never mind the whole silly download procedure. I do cope with it, but too often find myself grabbing the little Olympus WS-310 for just tune learning, it's so simple... then there are moments that I wish i would have had a cleaner recording of some spectacular session moments. I am just a recording geek, it's like my camera... the memories grabbed with recording this music will last hopefully many lifetimes. I record our session with the Fostex and four condensers... it raises funds to help pay our hosts and run the utilities and food etc. stays in house mainly, not commercial. That's the main function of it, but we also have preserved some extremely precious sound. it's a very involved setup and then all the edits and EQ work... but satisfying work too.
Something simpler would be more than welcome!! Maybe for the regular session kind of recording for tunes, the H2 might be great. Decent quality, better than the WS things, and just about as easy to use. Not for use via a PA. The MD is a workhorse though... guess I will keep it til it quits then start obsessing once again!
Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Does anyone here use the LS-10, who previously used a Sony MD recorder for session recording? I wonder how the small mikes on the LS-10 compare to the litte electret stereo mikes that come with the MD players/recorders. I find the MD quality very good, especially on the PCM setting, but the mikes record extremely high end, way too treble, I have to add so much bass and filtering after to get rid of screech.
I recently got a better mike, a stereo condenser mike they recommend for the Sony MD (forget the model right now) that solves the way too treble problem, but it sounds a little muffled now.
And ease of use too... the MD is not the most user friendly, though I am used to it and it's not a big deal really... how easy is the LS-10 by comparison?
I saw a few of the LS-10s at CIAW, placed on the floor in the middle of session circels, very brave! Wonder how the recordings compared to the MD if anyone had one previously.
I have read all the online links, demos and sound clips, reviews, everything, so don't need links to these. What I am curious about is reality, not the best this thing can do as presented on line... and especially from people who switched from the MD players... and what's better or worse about them. I saw some Zoom H2s around too... though am told the quality is not as good as the MD quality... but maybe those of you who have them think otherwise?
thanks for any tips!
# Posted on August 2nd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I don't recommend going with a minidisc recorder, as the minidisc format is on the way out. Everything is going to flash memory cards now, which is a lot more convenient.
I use an Edirol R-09. It has the best sound quality of any digital recorder I've heard, and it's small enough to drop into your pocket. It isn't cheap, though.
# Posted on August 2nd 2008 by Marklar
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Marklar, thanks for the advice.... problem is I already have the MD recorder and have had it several years and got some great use out of it. Soundwise on the PCM setting it is astounding quality. I do have to fix the treble business though, with the little stereo mike, but it's not a major big deal. So the issue is not which one to choose, because I have the MD already, but wondering if I will get the same sound quality as on the MD pretty much, in which case I will save the $300 and use it elsewhere down the line for an even better contraption, if they keep coming out with better ones.
I have heard the MD format is on the way out for years now, and I know it's mainly out and people use other recorders, but as long as I can still get the minidiscs (which I like, they are cheap enough to keep them with the music on them), and I have many packs of them and they can be reused if needed, I would continue to use it. It's a sound quality issue I wonder about, and whether the mikes on the LS-10 are any better sounding. If the LS-10 produces a better sound, that's what I really want to find out.
many recommend the Sony D-50 PCM but it's too pricey for me at $499, and I have been told that is about the same quality as the MD on the PCM setting anyway by someone who has had both. The LS-10 is smaller too than the D-50 which is nice and has a built in 2G hard drive. Has slots for up to 16G cards now too.
Mainly just a sound quality question, ease of use is secondary, but would be nice.
# Posted on August 2nd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I have been using a Sony MD (MZ-R700) for recording ITM sessions and concerts for some years now. If I were starting anew, i would of course go solid-state, but as I have the MD and it produces excellent results, why change?
I use a Sony ECM-MS957 condenser microphone which I seem to recall was not especially cheap but which again produces good results.
As for the lack of bass frequencies, one has to bear in mind that there is very little bass in most sessions - it's mostly at the top end. I don't think that is a problem with the MD, since when I used to put CDs onto MD (in the days before MP3 players) there was plenty of bass on the MD, if you play it back though decent headphones (Bose, in my case) or decent HiFi system. Likewise, I get good results using the microphone with a PA system so I know it's a good 'un.
Mike
# Posted on August 3rd 2008 by Shepshed
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Yes.... that's the mike I got.... it makes a big difference, yet it's a bit muffled... likely me not finding the right placement yet, just got it.
I have had two different ones of those little electrets and they both sounded DIFFERENT!! vastly. One is so treble it's unusable. So maybe they vary.
I am not looking for bass in particular at a session recording but a little warmth. The little mikes made things sound brittle and not like the session... I can fix it, no big deal, but wondered if the Olympus might record better right out.
You have answered my question pretty well, And I think tweaking the new mike more as to placement will help. I just didn't want to spend $399 on a sound I can get already. I will keep on using the MD until it breaks... and it's been abused now for three years I calculate...so could be a while! It was not cheap, so would need pretty good reason to get rid of it.
I have also plugged it into the PA at some concerts we've done, on the PCM setting (remember to change to another 1G MD between sets!!) and it is very excellent. No mike used, very true sound. I have enough discs to last a lifetime I think so don't really care if the format goes out of use. I even found a way around the one time download, you can hook it into the mike input on the PC and stream into audacity or some such program, in real time of course, but I don't mind, just go off and do something else while it loads.
Thanks Shepshed....
# Posted on August 3rd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
I use a Zoom H2 and I'm pretty impressed by the quality.
I mainly use it to record band practice. but have also plugged it into a PA. In a PA it didn't do as well, but it might have just been the mix. You have to turn the levels on the H2 down really low or it will blow out the sound and the vocal mics tend to pick up the instruments too.
For sessions or practice, it takes a little experimentation to find out exactly where to put it and what settings to use, and those will change if people sit in a different place next week. But if you record in WAV format, you can adjust right/left front/back levels before you dump it to your computer.
It's not studio quality, but to me it sounds pretty good.
# Posted on August 3rd 2008 by CleverName
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Thanks Clevername! I also record with the volume lower on the MD, it's cleaner... you can always raise it later. Esp. via the PA. Learned the hard way!
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Re the Zoom H2 I have had the same from a PA. I think you need something that is descibed in this link (http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=11176&sid=2c61ff6c9fd8bfd436655f133d0f31f8) but it means precious litlle to me.
The output fromt he PA even at the lowest setting makes the vocals distort like mad
Sorry for the off topic post Iris but it might help the other person!
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by mactavish
Re: Comparison of Olympus LS-10 and Sony MD for session recording
Hi Mactavish.... this is good info.... I have to say, as long as the vol. level is low and the MD is on the PCM setting you can get a brilliant recording via a PA. Still, for live recording that is anything bordering on serious I use my Fostex MR8HD with two condenser mikes, large diaphragm, in the stereo pattern they call XY about four-five feet away from the performers, the stage. Ideally it would be great to use up to four and maybe point at each player so as to better mix things, but this works really well if you check for sound and evenness of all the instruments coming through the two channels. I run it apart from the PA and the recording is just better.
There have been places where it's not practical to set up a whole mini recording studio and I have used the MD via the PA. i have recorded whole concerts this way and it's pretty decent. Low volume coming in is the most important thing otherwise it clips all aver the place. Wonder how the LS-10 would hadle that. I could very well put the $399 for it to use elsewhere if I am going to get the same results.
Still, for off the cuff session recording, the MD player is so darn unfriendly for use. Never mind the whole silly download procedure. I do cope with it, but too often find myself grabbing the little Olympus WS-310 for just tune learning, it's so simple... then there are moments that I wish i would have had a cleaner recording of some spectacular session moments. I am just a recording geek, it's like my camera... the memories grabbed with recording this music will last hopefully many lifetimes. I record our session with the Fostex and four condensers... it raises funds to help pay our hosts and run the utilities and food etc. stays in house mainly, not commercial. That's the main function of it, but we also have preserved some extremely precious sound. it's a very involved setup and then all the edits and EQ work... but satisfying work too.
Something simpler would be more than welcome!! Maybe for the regular session kind of recording for tunes, the H2 might be great. Decent quality, better than the WS things, and just about as easy to use. Not for use via a PA. The MD is a workhorse though... guess I will keep it til it quits then start obsessing once again!
# Posted on August 7th 2008 by irisnevins