at the local session last night we were joined by a guitarist,who while competent on reels,consistently played out of time throughout a jig.
unfortunately it was in my left earhole,making it difficult to play and spoiling my enjoyment
.I politely explained that the rhythym was putting me off,and was given the answer I dont play much Irish trad,this player did not even know that we were playing a jig,I persisted in trying to explain the rhythmic difference between a reel and jig.
what was particularly galling was that there was another guitarist,who had it right,so it was only really a question of listening to the other guitarist.
I find this attitude,shows a lack of respect for the music
,I have found that there are anumber of guitarists who cant seem to get jig rhythm,they end up playing it evenly,has anyone else experienced this problem?
she,was doing something which made it difficult to play with.
whatever it was,it didnt fit 6/8 time.
I was leading the tune so I expect the guitarist to listen to me.
I think she was playing 4/4 timing on the jig.
I was trying to block it out.
One would expect that anyone by the name of metrognome would have some difficulties with anyone who couldn't keep in time !
Couldn't you explain the 'only one rhythm guitarist/bodhran/etc per session' rule to him ?
Or suggest he learns to play the tunes or listens some more first ?
Most guitarists outside this field just aren't used to playing in 6/8 anyway.
I was once looking over the merchandise stall at the end of a Fairport Convention gig, and was asked what I thought of the support band, to which I replied "Not too much." I then realised that the person asking was a member of the band ! I did point out that they had played resolutely throughout in 4/4, whereas Fairport had played in 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8 and 9/8......
I'm hungry just reading it! Steafan Hannigan recommends Pineapple Apricot in his bodhran book. Funny how the mnemomics (?) are all food-related. Keeping up a reliable jig rhythm needs a bit of practise. Making it interesting needs even more practise. I guess Dickens M won't be leading any slip jigs if she turns up next week
I always found " rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille good for reels, and hammmburger hammmburger hammmburger hammmburger good for
hornpipes, but make sure playing an instrument at the time, and not just sitting there reciting these things beneath the tune.
We pass around guitar duty in out session. that way no one person plays badly all night. but I find if the guitarist just plays a good boom-cha boom-cha boom-cha in a jig or reel he (or she) can't go wrong. It's when they try to get cute the problem starts.
At our regular gig, one of the regulars at the bar said she liked clapping along with the tunes but had trouble finding the rythym sometimes. I told her to watch Phil's foot. (the box player). Since then she hasn't had any problem with jigs.
I always liked the "double dactyl" for the jig rhythm. As in:
"Higgeldy piggeldy, Emily Dickinson
Lived in the attic and seldom came down
Into the parlor where hyper-reclusively
Emily kept herself safe from reknown"
Miss Dickinson is a frequent target of such rhymes, probably because her name and occupation line up so nicely for them. Here's another:
Higgeldy, piggeldy, Emily Dickinson
Liked to use dashes instead of full stops
Nowadays faced with such idiosyncrasy
Critics and editors send for the cops
As for the guitarist problem, it's hard to know what to say. One wants to encourage someone who really wants to learn the music, but it's also nice to play a few tunes without having to expend attention on ignoring an unintentional polyrhythm.
Note to guitarists ~ find a melody player who has a nice lilting rhythm.
Then select a jig. 'Phil's Jig" for instance.
Have them play the melody solo.
Listen, listen,listen.
The rhythm should be there without any backing.
Get the tune (just melody) in your head.
If it seems as if it is all happening too fast listen for the phrasing.
I know one guitarist who said,
"Hornpipes are slow, reels are fast, & jigs are really fast."
Of course he is mistaken. I doubt he is getting the jigs in his head & definitely he does not hear the phrasing.
& the music definitely suffers. I do have to say I have played good session with 2 or 3 guitar backers present. Usually only one plays backing on a given tune. Also each of them pretty much know the tunes; & play melody instruments as well.
Instead of repeating food-related mnemonics or sayings over and over in my head, I try to listen carefully to the tune so I can concentrate on the rhythm.
Besides, I am allergic to rashers, sausages, and pineapple.
As for "Noble Sausages" did you mean Lord Porkington?
When playing with people I don't know who might be new to the music, I try to choose tunes that won't cause a train wreck.
For example, with a new guitar player, I'll stick with some of those one-chord or two-chord reels or a waltzes. If he's got some classical chops or jazz chops or I detect some evidence he's got a decent ear I may go with a hornpipe. But I avoid jigs or slip jigs with new guitarists because of the train wreck it seems to cause.
You can draw them out, though, by saying "can you play lead on any jigs?" If they can, you got no worries. If not, then stay away from the jigs - until you can beat the rhythm into him.
Before I began playing piano at the local Irish Session in 1995, I had many years worth of experience playing so-called "classical" music as well as playing piano at a local Blues Jam. This did help me learn the rhythms when I began playing piano at the Irish Session.
All rhythm musos should try dancing from time to time. Musos who also step out are generally pretty good at keeping tempo and pace, as well as beating out an interesting rhythm. It's easy to identify the musos who don't dance when you're looking up at the band from the dance floor. Sadly, half the musicians I know took up their instruments so they could avoid dancing...
Its true that people who dont know much about backing tend to fall apart on slip Jigs. But my question is - if you cant back it then why try backing and wreck it for everyone else?
You need to do more strums or fingerpicking for a jig than a reel, you need to squeeze more movements in so some find it harder.
Slip jigs are trickier for people not used the the timing, it gets hard to catch the beginning or end of the tune for some backers unless they know the tune or the structure of a slip jig.
I am a fan of 'animated alligator' for reels and 'edible elephant' for jigs, which is something Kieran Jordan from Boston used in adult step dance classes (and in my case, the 'elephant' moniker felt especially appropriate).
Lots of people new to the music have more trouble with jigs than reels. Rather than try to hit every beat at first, suggest that they try the 'humpty dumpty' quarter note, eighth note feel of a single jig. Once they have that down, they can graduate to six strums per measure.
Guitarists who cannot dance a jig & play at the same time
So your name is clogstepping? Does that imply you might set a high bar when you say." Sadly, half the musicians I know took up their instruments so they could avoid dancing."
Peple have told me they dance because they cannot sing or play an instrument..
Perhaps we all need to be willing to express ourselves in the fashion we feel most comfortable.
The social axpect of a session &/or ceili is just as important as ones' ability.
Yes, sometimes less is actually more when you are playing backup (says the man with many years experience as a backup musician/sideman/accompanist).
I didn't take up an instrument to get out of dancing. Instead, I had been playing music for many years before I tried square dancing and folk dancing. When I was invited to play piano with the band for the Arkansas Country Dance Society instead of having to dance, I felt that I had been promoted (from dancer) and/or rewarded.
Clogsteps, sadly there are far more dancers in Australia than musicians. A fact I'm sure you well know.
I wasnt really asking why it was harder to play a slip jig -more why some peoplethink its acceptable to bash away out of time when they dont know how to back a tune, slip jig, polka whatever.
Clogsteps, sadly there are far more dancers in Australia than musicians. A fact I'm sure you well know.
I wasnt really asking why it was harder to play a slip jig -more why some peoplethink its acceptable to bash away out of time when they dont know how to back a tune, slip jig, polka whatever.
quote from BB.
I agree
.the next night ,saturday night,I was playing a gig,with a guitarist[who does know how to back] and my partner Cathy,at the end of the evening,a woman from Wicklow,came over and said, I really enjoyed your music,we are set dancers and your music was just right for dancing.
to me that is the ultimate compliment.
I also related the story of the jig the previous night,to the saturday guitarist,and he laughed,and was astonished that the guitarist didnt realise it was a jig,and said oh ,hadnt heard of humpty dumpty then
.now I dont claim to be the best player in the world,but getting the basic rhythms and good dancing feel/speed correct,should be number one priority for any player, rhythm or melody,alternatively if they are not sure, either do it quietly or dont do it .Dick Miles
bb Yep, you're right, there are undoubtedly more dancers than musicians here. And dickens has it right - a great rhythm musician can lift the tunes amazingly during a dance - i'm pleased to read that you received compliments after the last session!
I believe the discussion is not aimed at backers who are 'unsure'
It seems to me it is about backers who believe they are playing the correct rhythm.
The other players, & dancers, however,, are sure the backer is off. Are we preaching to the choir?
;)
clogsteppinging ~ I would love to partner. Better yet, next time you see a musician hiding behind his instrument why not give him a turn?
hi folks, just a point; Western music is basically 4/4 [and 3/4] For some one raised on this diet, they simply have no concept of jig rhythms. 6/8, 12/8 and 9/8 are beyond their comprehension. When someone starts a balkan set in some strange meter, then I am out of my depth.
My feeling is that if they dont understand jigs then they are at the wrong session!
random. I am not so much talking about historically, but of the present situation. After all, ITM is western music! try finding a piece of modern pop, rock etc that is not in 4/4.[ Ok some heavy metal uses odd timing.]
I understand the 4/4 3/4 syndrome. People play what they are accustomed to playing.However, the same musicians who have "learned" a 4/4 (or 3/4) rhythm have no doubt listened to other rhythms.As far as contemporary music goes; give me a break. Jazz, string ensemble, trad/rock/deadhead/fusion . . .
What to do about backers who are playing correct rhythm but just a fraction behind everyone else? Does that irritate others as much as it does me? And is tempo a learned skill or innate?
Playing a fraction of a second behind everyone else (even if you are playing the correct rhythm) is irritating, disruptive, and might throw someone off.
Whether or not tempo is a learned skill or innate depends on the person. Some people have a natural gift for a good sense of rhythm and timing and some people have to work hard to learn it.
Strummers and drummers who play a fraction behind the beat are inexcusable. It usually comes from moving your arm on the beat, with the delay being the distance your arm is away from the thing that makes the noise. They are stupid and/or deaf. I've heard banjo players do it too. It's a shorter delay, merely the difference between moving the pic and the string leaving the end of the pic. But with something like a banjo it really drags the rhythm. Inexcusable.
But by far the worst offender is absolutely everyone I've ever heard shake one of those fecking egg things. I've never once heard anyone intelligent or skilful enough to compensate for the delay.
Yesterday evening, at the local session, there were two lead players who weren't playing together. One of them was a fraction of a second behind the other. Since I was sitting between them while playing the piano, it was confusing to try to accompany both of them because they weren't together. I finally gave up and quit in exasperation so they could accompany each other.
The inertia of the contents of the shaky egg probably increases in direct relationship to the amount of alcohol consumed. I have been known to play a shaky egg. There were a few of us and we had a damn good time. However, mea culpa.
guitarists and jigs
guitarists and jigs
at the local session last night we were joined by a guitarist,who while competent on reels,consistently played out of time throughout a jig.
unfortunately it was in my left earhole,making it difficult to play and spoiling my enjoyment
.I politely explained that the rhythym was putting me off,and was given the answer I dont play much Irish trad,this player did not even know that we were playing a jig,I persisted in trying to explain the rhythmic difference between a reel and jig.
what was particularly galling was that there was another guitarist,who had it right,so it was only really a question of listening to the other guitarist.
I find this attitude,shows a lack of respect for the music
,I have found that there are anumber of guitarists who cant seem to get jig rhythm,they end up playing it evenly,has anyone else experienced this problem?
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: guitarists and jigs
You mean he played with equal emphasis on each beat but still managed 6/8 jig time? Or was he trying to impose 4/4 timing on the jig?
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
she,was doing something which made it difficult to play with.
whatever it was,it didnt fit 6/8 time.
I was leading the tune so I expect the guitarist to listen to me.
I think she was playing 4/4 timing on the jig.
I was trying to block it out.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: guitarists and jigs
One would expect that anyone by the name of metrognome would have some difficulties with anyone who couldn't keep in time !
Couldn't you explain the 'only one rhythm guitarist/bodhran/etc per session' rule to him ?
Or suggest he learns to play the tunes or listens some more first ?
Most guitarists outside this field just aren't used to playing in 6/8 anyway.
I was once looking over the merchandise stall at the end of a Fairport Convention gig, and was asked what I thought of the support band, to which I replied "Not too much." I then realised that the person asking was a member of the band ! I did point out that they had played resolutely throughout in 4/4, whereas Fairport had played in 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8 and 9/8......
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: guitarists and jigs
Oh, sorry, her- you posted while I was posting.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: guitarists and jigs
Ah, most of the rhythm guitarists I know seem to be blokes.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
She needs to learn to say "Rashers and Sauages" over and over in her head for the jigs. Keeps you in time but makes you quite hungry.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Irish DADGAD
Re: guitarists and jigs
Maybe she'll go and cook some for the session......
OOPS! Sexist remark alert !
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: guitarists and jigs
Wasn't "Sauages" a tune penned by Stephane Grappelli and Django Reinhardt?
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: guitarists and jigs
I'm hungry just reading it! Steafan Hannigan recommends Pineapple Apricot in his bodhran book. Funny how the mnemomics (?) are all food-related. Keeping up a reliable jig rhythm needs a bit of practise. Making it interesting needs even more practise. I guess Dickens M won't be leading any slip jigs if she turns up next week
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
They wrote the tune after they'd read Rousseau's work on the Noble Sauages...
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
No. The word for their tunes is sewage and the plural is the same as the singular.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by LowProfile
Re: guitarists and jigs
I always found " rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille rat - a - tou - ille good for reels, and hammmburger hammmburger hammmburger hammmburger good for
hornpipes, but make sure playing an instrument at the time, and not just sitting there reciting these things beneath the tune.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: guitarists and jigs
More food..
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Liverpool Everton Liverpool Everton is what was suggested to me.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by minijackpot
Re: guitarists and jigs
Natalie McMaster suggests "Jiggity-jiggity -jiggity-jiggity.: and
"this-is-how-a -reel-goes, this-is-how-a -reel-goes, this-is-how-a -reel-goes"
We pass around guitar duty in out session. that way no one person plays badly all night. but I find if the guitarist just plays a good boom-cha boom-cha boom-cha in a jig or reel he (or she) can't go wrong. It's when they try to get cute the problem starts.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by greybeardd
Re: guitarists and jigs
Jiggety Jiggety is quite obvious, but this is how a reel goes? Where does the ONE two three four fit in there? I'm fairly dense, so bear with me.
In Florida we use AL-li-ga-tor for reels, of course.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: guitarists and jigs
Oh, for a jig, I get it now. See? Told you.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: guitarists and jigs
At our regular gig, one of the regulars at the bar said she liked clapping along with the tunes but had trouble finding the rythym sometimes. I told her to watch Phil's foot. (the box player). Since then she hasn't had any problem with jigs.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by CleverName
Re: guitarists and jigs
I've told guitar players to hear, and then think, 3-1, 3-1 for jigs, so they won't be going 6 strums for the 6 in 6.8..
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Jmbu
Re: guitarists and jigs
I always liked the "double dactyl" for the jig rhythm. As in:
"Higgeldy piggeldy, Emily Dickinson
Lived in the attic and seldom came down
Into the parlor where hyper-reclusively
Emily kept herself safe from reknown"
Miss Dickinson is a frequent target of such rhymes, probably because her name and occupation line up so nicely for them. Here's another:
Higgeldy, piggeldy, Emily Dickinson
Liked to use dashes instead of full stops
Nowadays faced with such idiosyncrasy
Critics and editors send for the cops
As for the guitarist problem, it's hard to know what to say. One wants to encourage someone who really wants to learn the music, but it's also nice to play a few tunes without having to expend attention on ignoring an unintentional polyrhythm.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: guitarists and jigs
Note to guitarists ~ find a melody player who has a nice lilting rhythm.
Then select a jig. 'Phil's Jig" for instance.
Have them play the melody solo.
Listen, listen,listen.
The rhythm should be there without any backing.
Get the tune (just melody) in your head.
If it seems as if it is all happening too fast listen for the phrasing.
I know one guitarist who said,
"Hornpipes are slow, reels are fast, & jigs are really fast."
Of course he is mistaken. I doubt he is getting the jigs in his head & definitely he does not hear the phrasing.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
any session ive played at where there was more than one guitar the tunes were always getting faster. one is enough in a session. if at all
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by bud an asal
Re: guitarists and jigs
& the music definitely suffers. I do have to say I have played good session with 2 or 3 guitar backers present. Usually only one plays backing on a given tune. Also each of them pretty much know the tunes; & play melody instruments as well.
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Ben Steen
* *
. . . they switch off . . . 1 person plays backing the others play the tune . . .
# Posted on July 26th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
Instead of repeating food-related mnemonics or sayings over and over in my head, I try to listen carefully to the tune so I can concentrate on the rhythm.
Besides, I am allergic to rashers, sausages, and pineapple.
As for "Noble Sausages" did you mean Lord Porkington?
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
When playing with people I don't know who might be new to the music, I try to choose tunes that won't cause a train wreck.
For example, with a new guitar player, I'll stick with some of those one-chord or two-chord reels or a waltzes. If he's got some classical chops or jazz chops or I detect some evidence he's got a decent ear I may go with a hornpipe. But I avoid jigs or slip jigs with new guitarists because of the train wreck it seems to cause.
You can draw them out, though, by saying "can you play lead on any jigs?" If they can, you got no worries. If not, then stay away from the jigs - until you can beat the rhythm into him.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by jwvansteenwyk
Re: guitarists and jigs
Before I began playing piano at the local Irish Session in 1995, I had many years worth of experience playing so-called "classical" music as well as playing piano at a local Blues Jam. This did help me learn the rhythms when I began playing piano at the Irish Session.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
All rhythm musos should try dancing from time to time. Musos who also step out are generally pretty good at keeping tempo and pace, as well as beating out an interesting rhythm. It's easy to identify the musos who don't dance when you're looking up at the band from the dance floor. Sadly, half the musicians I know took up their instruments so they could avoid dancing...
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Its true that people who dont know much about backing tend to fall apart on slip Jigs. But my question is - if you cant back it then why try backing and wreck it for everyone else?
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by bb
Re: guitarists and jigs
Collingwood Essendon Collingwood Essendon - now there's a thought.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Pata Cake Pata Cake Bakers Man..for 6/8 tempo. I learnt that at mother's knee and other low joints. ....the old ones are the best!
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: guitarists and jigs
You need to do more strums or fingerpicking for a jig than a reel, you need to squeeze more movements in so some find it harder.
Slip jigs are trickier for people not used the the timing, it gets hard to catch the beginning or end of the tune for some backers unless they know the tune or the structure of a slip jig.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: guitarists and jigs
I am a fan of 'animated alligator' for reels and 'edible elephant' for jigs, which is something Kieran Jordan from Boston used in adult step dance classes (and in my case, the 'elephant' moniker felt especially appropriate).
Lots of people new to the music have more trouble with jigs than reels. Rather than try to hit every beat at first, suggest that they try the 'humpty dumpty' quarter note, eighth note feel of a single jig. Once they have that down, they can graduate to six strums per measure.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by AlBrown
Guitarists who cannot dance a jig & play at the same time
So your name is clogstepping? Does that imply you might set a high bar when you say." Sadly, half the musicians I know took up their instruments so they could avoid dancing."
Peple have told me they dance because they cannot sing or play an instrument..
Perhaps we all need to be willing to express ourselves in the fashion we feel most comfortable.
The social axpect of a session &/or ceili is just as important as ones' ability.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
Good point AlBrown.
Sometimes less is more when backing the tune.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
Yes, sometimes less is actually more when you are playing backup (says the man with many years experience as a backup musician/sideman/accompanist).
I didn't take up an instrument to get out of dancing. Instead, I had been playing music for many years before I tried square dancing and folk dancing. When I was invited to play piano with the band for the Arkansas Country Dance Society instead of having to dance, I felt that I had been promoted (from dancer) and/or rewarded.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
Clogsteps, sadly there are far more dancers in Australia than musicians. A fact I'm sure you well know.
I wasnt really asking why it was harder to play a slip jig -more why some peoplethink its acceptable to bash away out of time when they dont know how to back a tune, slip jig, polka whatever.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by bb
Re: guitarists and jigs
bb you can ask questions to your hearts content.
Mentoring might be acceptable.
Speaking of what is acceptable.
;)
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
The thing is - I dont know any theory..so I cant just walk up to people and say 'cut it out' and then thats it. Its so hard. Sigh.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by bb
Re: guitarists and jigs
You would be surprised what you can teach someone.
Remember if you don't know so much ~less is more.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
I suppose you could always say 'I love blah blahs playing', 'n you should get blah blahs cd' I spose.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by bb
Re: guitarists and jigs
Random - I don't set a particularly high bar so if you're willing to take a turn around the dance floor, I'm happy to partner
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Clogsteps, sadly there are far more dancers in Australia than musicians. A fact I'm sure you well know.
I wasnt really asking why it was harder to play a slip jig -more why some peoplethink its acceptable to bash away out of time when they dont know how to back a tune, slip jig, polka whatever.
quote from BB.
I agree
.the next night ,saturday night,I was playing a gig,with a guitarist[who does know how to back] and my partner Cathy,at the end of the evening,a woman from Wicklow,came over and said, I really enjoyed your music,we are set dancers and your music was just right for dancing.
to me that is the ultimate compliment.
I also related the story of the jig the previous night,to the saturday guitarist,and he laughed,and was astonished that the guitarist didnt realise it was a jig,and said oh ,hadnt heard of humpty dumpty then
.now I dont claim to be the best player in the world,but getting the basic rhythms and good dancing feel/speed correct,should be number one priority for any player, rhythm or melody,alternatively if they are not sure, either do it quietly or dont do it .Dick Miles
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: guitarists and jigs
bb Yep, you're right, there are undoubtedly more dancers than musicians here. And dickens has it right - a great rhythm musician can lift the tunes amazingly during a dance - i'm pleased to read that you received compliments after the last session!
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
I believe the discussion is not aimed at backers who are 'unsure'
It seems to me it is about backers who believe they are playing the correct rhythm.
The other players, & dancers, however,, are sure the backer is off. Are we preaching to the choir?
;)
clogsteppinging ~ I would love to partner. Better yet, next time you see a musician hiding behind his instrument why not give him a turn?
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
hi folks, just a point; Western music is basically 4/4 [and 3/4] For some one raised on this diet, they simply have no concept of jig rhythms. 6/8, 12/8 and 9/8 are beyond their comprehension. When someone starts a balkan set in some strange meter, then I am out of my depth.
My feeling is that if they dont understand jigs then they are at the wrong session!
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by piobagusfidil
???
"Western music is basically 4/4 [and 3/4]"
I did not know that.
"Jesu, Joy of Man's Desire"
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
It's easy:
down-up-down, down-up-down, down-up-down,...
It's kind of like chewing gum and walking at the same time
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by jgaughan
Re: guitarists and jigs
random. I am not so much talking about historically, but of the present situation. After all, ITM is western music! try finding a piece of modern pop, rock etc that is not in 4/4.[ Ok some heavy metal uses odd timing.]
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: guitarists and jigs
Doctor, doctor will I ever be able to play slip jigs on the fiddle again?
Good question. Can you show me how it goes on guitar?
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re:
I understand the 4/4 3/4 syndrome. People play what they are accustomed to playing.However, the same musicians who have "learned" a 4/4 (or 3/4) rhythm have no doubt listened to other rhythms.As far as contemporary music goes; give me a break. Jazz, string ensemble, trad/rock/deadhead/fusion . . .
I like the comment ~
"It's easy:
down-up-down, down-up-down, down-up-down,.."
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: guitarists and jigs
Whatever.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: guitarists and jigs
Maybe you should just try to "Take Five" like Dave Brubeck did.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
What to do about backers who are playing correct rhythm but just a fraction behind everyone else? Does that irritate others as much as it does me? And is tempo a learned skill or innate?
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Playing a fraction of a second behind everyone else (even if you are playing the correct rhythm) is irritating, disruptive, and might throw someone off.
Whether or not tempo is a learned skill or innate depends on the person. Some people have a natural gift for a good sense of rhythm and timing and some people have to work hard to learn it.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
Strummers and drummers who play a fraction behind the beat are inexcusable. It usually comes from moving your arm on the beat, with the delay being the distance your arm is away from the thing that makes the noise. They are stupid and/or deaf. I've heard banjo players do it too. It's a shorter delay, merely the difference between moving the pic and the string leaving the end of the pic. But with something like a banjo it really drags the rhythm. Inexcusable.
But by far the worst offender is absolutely everyone I've ever heard shake one of those fecking egg things. I've never once heard anyone intelligent or skilful enough to compensate for the delay.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: guitarists and jigs
Yesterday evening, at the local session, there were two lead players who weren't playing together. One of them was a fraction of a second behind the other. Since I was sitting between them while playing the piano, it was confusing to try to accompany both of them because they weren't together. I finally gave up and quit in exasperation so they could accompany each other.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
The inertia of the contents of the shaky egg probably increases in direct relationship to the amount of alcohol consumed. I have been known to play a shaky egg. There were a few of us and we had a damn good time. However, mea culpa.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by zepherin
Re: guitarists and jigs
Clogstepping, were you trying to play that good shaky egg who is just slightly craic'ed?
# Posted on July 30th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: guitarists and jigs
Even slightly craic'ed is good craic! I like to do the shaky egg thing with kids. They love rhythm players.
# Posted on July 31st 2008 by zepherin