Ok, here's one I just can't figure out.
To me, both Michael Gorman's:http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1714
(as played by the Bothy Band) and the Silver Slipper: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8479
(as played by Matt Molloy on Heathery Breeze) just don't sound like Slip Jigs. To me they sound flattened out to 3/4 or 3/2 as someone suggested in a comment section. Now my question is, is that actually a way of playing slip jigs I haven't come across or did they really change the time signature for the recording?
Watch this space... Also, do a search here in the discussions. I suspect some folks will make the links to discussions and comments, but I'm off for a real soaking in the rain.
They don't sound like slip jigs because in a strict sense they are not. The tunes you refer to are usually (but not always) referred to as * hop jigs * , which means that the rhythm crotchet - quaver is predominant, instead of groups of three quavers as is the case with slip jigs.
It's a bit like single jigs and slides vs. double jigs.
This site and many a tune book doesn't have a special category for hop jigs and so they simply put them under slip jigs. As you found out, the feel is very different though, even both are written in 9/8. In my early learning stages, I thought Michael Gorman's was a waltz or something like that !
That's my point. Even without getting into that hop-jig-slip-jig-discussion, both are written out as 9/8 here, and I can't here 9/8th in the recordings. This is merely interest, if I wanted to play them, I'd simply go by listening, but I'm interested in the theory behind it. Your posts made it somewhat clearer though, thanks.
It is like it is I guess. Somehow somewhere people agreed on 9/8.
I for example like the theory that 4/4 time better suits the feel of Irish polkas than 2/4, but that doesn't change the fact that they usually are written in 2/4 time just like polkas from the continent.
I think it's simply that some people play hop jigs in 9/8 and some people prefer to straighten out the crotchet-quaver groupings and play them in 3/4 (or 3/2 if you prefer to notate it that way).
Incidentally, some of the hop jigs you hear today are descended from very old 3/2 hornpipes, e.g. the Dusty Miller (read through the comments section here http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/28). So that means that some tunes started out as 3/2 hornpipes over 300 years ago, then they got turned into hop jigs in 9/8, and then, as trends changed again over the years, they got straightened back out again and played as straight hop jigs, which are to all intents and purposes a type of 3/2 hornpipe, although nobody in Ireland would really call them that.
You want me to correct it?
"ein schönes EM-Finale", Finale is neutral.
"haben wir" somehow suggests that your in Vienna too, but otherwise it is just fine, a little informal maybe, but I would actually prefer it to "gibt es", in context of Austrian dialect, it works just fine ("hamma", dialect for "haben wir" is synonymous to "gibt es" and more widely used).
Ja ich hoffe auch, eigentlich habe ich ja auf Holland gehofft, aber die sind leider ausgeschieden.
Dow got there before me... I'm sure there were at least a couple written out straight on site here, and that the discussion took off a couple of times on this issue in the comments.
I got soaked, but quickly it turned to sunshine, which we have now, but I needed to leave the wilds and get the espresso espressing... I'll find some time, if Dow doesn't also take you there first, to see if I can find those comments/discussions...
As well, not mentioined, some folks straighten out the slip jigs as a kind of lark, on a whim, for the craic, just because it is possible... You'd also benefit from checking out the 3/2 tunes on site here.
Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Ok, here's one I just can't figure out.
To me, both Michael Gorman's:http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1714
(as played by the Bothy Band) and the Silver Slipper:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8479
(as played by Matt Molloy on Heathery Breeze) just don't sound like Slip Jigs. To me they sound flattened out to 3/4 or 3/2 as someone suggested in a comment section. Now my question is, is that actually a way of playing slip jigs I haven't come across or did they really change the time signature for the recording?
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by TMB
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Yup! ~ and that's just for starters...
Watch this space... Also, do a search here in the discussions. I suspect some folks will make the links to discussions and comments, but I'm off for a real soaking in the rain.
I'll be back!
Matt Molloy & slip jigs ~
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by ceolachan
Search 'hop jigs' / 'slip jigs'...
The tales we weave and the tails we wag...
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Actually I did a search, but I didn't find the answer
. If that means I didn't search well enough than I apologise.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by TMB
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Hi TMB,
They don't sound like slip jigs because in a strict sense they are not. The tunes you refer to are usually (but not always) referred to as * hop jigs * , which means that the rhythm crotchet - quaver is predominant, instead of groups of three quavers as is the case with slip jigs.
It's a bit like single jigs and slides vs. double jigs.
Hope this helps.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
This site and many a tune book doesn't have a special category for hop jigs and so they simply put them under slip jigs. As you found out, the feel is very different though, even both are written in 9/8. In my early learning stages, I thought Michael Gorman's was a waltz or something like that !
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
That's my point. Even without getting into that hop-jig-slip-jig-discussion, both are written out as 9/8 here, and I can't here 9/8th in the recordings. This is merely interest, if I wanted to play them, I'd simply go by listening, but I'm interested in the theory behind it. Your posts made it somewhat clearer though, thanks.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by TMB
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
It is like it is I guess. Somehow somewhere people agreed on 9/8.
I for example like the theory that 4/4 time better suits the feel of Irish polkas than 2/4, but that doesn't change the fact that they usually are written in 2/4 time just like polkas from the continent.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
I think it's simply that some people play hop jigs in 9/8 and some people prefer to straighten out the crotchet-quaver groupings and play them in 3/4 (or 3/2 if you prefer to notate it that way).
Incidentally, some of the hop jigs you hear today are descended from very old 3/2 hornpipes, e.g. the Dusty Miller (read through the comments section here http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/28). So that means that some tunes started out as 3/2 hornpipes over 300 years ago, then they got turned into hop jigs in 9/8, and then, as trends changed again over the years, they got straightened back out again and played as straight hop jigs, which are to all intents and purposes a type of 3/2 hornpipe, although nobody in Ireland would really call them that.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Dr. Dow
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
That's interesting, Dow. Thanks.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Thomas, hoffentlich haben wir heute abend einen schönen EM-finale in Wien !
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
haben wir > gibt es.
Sounds a bit too much like a personal appointment otherwise, doesn't it?
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
You want me to correct it?
"ein schönes EM-Finale", Finale is neutral.
"haben wir" somehow suggests that your in Vienna too, but otherwise it is just fine, a little informal maybe, but I would actually prefer it to "gibt es", in context of Austrian dialect, it works just fine ("hamma", dialect for "haben wir" is synonymous to "gibt es" and more widely used).
Ja ich hoffe auch, eigentlich habe ich ja auf Holland gehofft, aber die sind leider ausgeschieden.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by TMB
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Dow got there before me... I'm sure there were at least a couple written out straight on site here, and that the discussion took off a couple of times on this issue in the comments.
I got soaked, but quickly it turned to sunshine, which we have now, but I needed to leave the wilds and get the espresso espressing... I'll find some time, if Dow doesn't also take you there first, to see if I can find those comments/discussions...
As well, not mentioined, some folks straighten out the slip jigs as a kind of lark, on a whim, for the craic, just because it is possible... You'd also benefit from checking out the 3/2 tunes on site here.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Discussion: Help needed for a Lúnasa tune
# Posted on May 24th 2006 by Pere
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10125
Cullybacky Hop-Jig / Mike Hoban's
Key signature: A Dorian
Submitted on June 23rd 2006 by Pere.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/5883
Top It Off / Connemara
Key signature: D Major
Submitted on March 5th 2004 by turophile.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2608
Cucanandy / Dance to Your Daddy
Key signature: G Major
Submitted on January 25th 2003 by gian marco.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1374
Dance Ti' Thy Daddy
Key signature: D Major
Submitted on June 16th 2007 by nicholas.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7365
The Dusty Miller
Key signature: D Major
Submitted on March 17th 2005 by grymater.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4323
Dusty Miller
Key signature: G Major
Submitted on July 3rd 2007 by spindizzy.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7436
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Thank you ceolachan, this is way more work than I could have imagined to answer my question. I'll check these out.
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by TMB
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
Have fun TMB, I know you will...
# Posted on June 29th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Matt Molloy and Slip Jigs
C: Mike McGoldrick ~ to me they both sound Breton in their general inclinations...
"Goodbye Grant"
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7364
"The Fisherman In The Wardrobe"
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7355
# Posted on June 30th 2008 by ceolachan