I come onto this site now and again for a browse and get great entertainment out of the level of bullshit spewed! My question is, why do you bother? Why don't you just go home and practice your instrument and listen to music? There is so much music out there to be listened to and absorbed. Go seek out O'Loughlin's recordings of Tommy Potts or the O'Neill cylinders of Patsy Touhey. Absolutley majestic!
Sitting around on the internet all day is not going to help your music. The tunes section is not an excuse either. Put your hand in yor pocket and buy all the Ceol Rince's or O'Neills or The Joyce Collection etc etc Or just listen and learn!
This post is not meant to be ignorant, snidey or whatever else you will accuse me of. I am genuinely interested in what some of you get out of this??
I see established, talented musician's names being thrown about and often criticised here, which for me, is outrageous behaviour. There is a reason why they go about thier business and reach a level of musicianship that many people won't and they do not seem to spend too much time here.
Again, I am not being insulting or anything else, I just can't understand why you would bother!??
I think you need to discuss music as well as playing it, and for some reason the opportunity to get together and play is never the right time to discuss it - for that, you need some measure of distance.
I think this site is a really great balance to the actual playing and it would be a missed opportunity not to be able to both discuss *and* play.
Besides, I've met and played with musicians as a result of being on this site - including working via email with Helen Roche before appearing with her on stage. And that's just one example of "why bother".
Put it this way johnny, people who do this would do the same on forums dealing with different issues than ITM. It's a personality thing rather than people who have troubles dealing with the music.
Well, that's my opinion of it anyway. We (the observers) do get a good laugh from it the odd time though.
I come here to discuss music with a larger group of people than the small group that plays locally. Yes, one must separate the wheat from the chaff, but there are a lot of good people on this board, from whom I have learned a lot about the music, things that I might otherwise never have learned. And if you ignore the 'trolls,' you can have a lot of good laughs.
Mark - I agree that discussion is a good thing but it is limited. When I want a discussion about traditional music, i ring friends or meet them for a pint. People who I know are a talented, well informed musicians. How can you value a discussion with someone about music when you have never heard them play or spoke to them directly about music?
Again, this brings me back to my original point. For example, how can great musicians be insulted or criticised here and the person criticising says they have been playing for 2 years on their profile? I honestly can't value this person's opinion until they impress me musically or I know that they really understand the never ending intricicies, subleties and colour of the music.
Hugo, I can't argue with the work point! But I do know of some great websites rather than this, just delete your history after!
Joking aside, if it is boredom, fair enough! But why not channel the boredom into listening or playing?
I wholeheartedly agree with you johnny47.
There is only so much you can glean from the mustard board without actual interaction with good knowledgable musicians. A vital part of the aural transmission of the tradition is osmosis - this to my mind cannot occur here, or if it does it does so to a far lesser degree than actually meeting great musicians.
Typing as opposed to talking is a poor second in terms of communication. Indeed I have read a good many posts here that have been wildly misinterpreted.
When I go for a tune with friends we often get to talking about the music so much that we have to remind ourselves to play another tune! Maybe thats the wrong thing to do I don't know. What I do know is that the standard of musicianship stays very high and is reinvigoured by '....do you play Caseys version of Colonel Frazers??' '....i got a great tape of Peter Horan today, he plays this on it...' etc. etc.
Warts and all, sites like thesession are a much better cross section of the wider ITM community compared to your local mates. All sorts of people are here with hugely varying cultural backgrounds, abilities and egos. So you're bound to get a much variety of views - it's up to you to find the truth buried in all the verbage.
Yeah, I'm taking a little break from that which I do for a living.
I suppose I am only interested in a niche part of this wide ITM community so I find some peoples views on the subject irrelevant.
Johnny47 made a good point that the mandolin/zither player living in Nebraska who's been playing for 2 years has not got anywhere near the knowledge needed to comment on posts like like 'Traditionalist view of dynamics' or 'Subdivision of genres within Traditional Irish Music'.
No offence to Nebraskan mandolin players by the way!!
You ask a surprisingly wise question johnny and one I have recently been asking myself lately - what am I getting out of the mustard board? The answer quite honestly is very little. I am so damned tired of the nauseating arrogance of some and the downright rudeness of others that I have largely stopped contributing. In fact (and before someone tries to point score) I have decided to cease participating in the board for the reasons stated above.
If I want to listen to people talking sense about music there are plenty of places we can all access in the real world, I do not need (or want) the hassle of putting up with the intense level of flaming that occurs in this forum. It is tiresome and gives newcomers to ITM a dreadful imprssion of what the tradition is about.
So I leave the board in the hands of those who would destroy the tradition with their arrogance and egocentricity. I doubt I will be missed and equally I will not mourn them.
Ha ha ha ha ya wind up merchant.. but I'll entertain your questions anyway.
1. I have yet to discover a method of playing my fiddle at work without the boss spotting me/hearing me. When I do this I will endeavour to play more and surf the internet less.
2. When I'm at work thinking about my playing and I come up with a question would you rather I not ask?? There are times when the absolute wealth of knowledge these people have to share is invaluable. for example http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17352
3. "Sitting around on the internet all day is not going to help your music"..... sitting around playing the fiddle all day is not going to feed me, cloth me or put strings on my fiddle.
So Johnny47 ........You come on here to be entertained by the bullsh*t and then you want to know why we bother posting. Surely a contradiction in terms. If there was no discussions then you wouldn't be entertained. Maybe we are all so proficient on our instruments that we don't need to practice anymore and can just sit back and talk about the music instead (I wish I had a 'roll eyes smiley' for this bit)
Farr - congratulations, I was waiting for some genius to come up with that one.
session savage - You're first and third point are completely irrelevant. The discussion you refer to in point 2. obviously was of benefit to some people. These discussions occur here but are rare. However, rather than coming on here and asking people who you have never heard play (and obviously do not know if they are qualified to give their opinion on bowing or not), why not listen to the clip and spend time practicing your bowing. Rather than waiting for a response here, go and play!
Dunno about you, Johnny boy, but I can listen and type at the same time, PJ Harvey on at the minute, great stuff. If you don't like the site, well, you can always not bother logging in, there again, you might miss something if you did that! It's a bit of harmless fun, mainly, and it's a free world, apart from the bit I live in, of course.
Free Reed - I said I come here the odd time to be entertained by the bullsh*t (It's ok you can type the word, I am sure no one will be offended), my point is I do not take the opinions contributed seriously. Maybe you are in the same boat. There are many people here who discuss,argue and give advice, but on what merit?
With regard to music, I have always been of the opinion "put up or shut up"
"You're first and third point are completely irrelevant"
How.?? I only come here when I cant play. Whether I visit here or not has NO bearing on the amount of time I spend playing or listening to music.
"why not listen to the clip and spend time practicing your bowing. Rather than waiting for a response here, go and play"
Well DUH! but I cant exactly do that in the office here can I?
People dont come here INSTEAD of playing music, the come here as a quick fix when they cant play music, to talk about the music, sometimes seek help and advice... and on that point "you do not know if they are qualified to give their opinion on bowing or not"... what I do (I can only speak for myself) I take on board all the advice given to me, I go home and I try everything. I will know pretty much straight away which advice is good. Even before trying the advice offered its easy to spot the good advice. For example if one person says hold the bow with your nose and upper lip and 15 people say use your hand ..... your not gonna use your nose are you? you will give more merit to a piece of advice given by the majority.
Is a bit like fleadhs in the old days music + craic..
Now all the young ones seem to want to do is play music all,
all ,all ,day - and nearly all. all. reels at that ,, When we went to
fleadhs - we wanted plenty on craic {fun} to, Sometime music
can get toooooooooo serious ,, MUSIC SHOULD BE FUN,,
JIM,,
Assuming the question is not a wind-up, I like coming on here and having a laugh and a joke about this music which I enjoy playing.
I like the odd argument, as long as it doesn't get too intense - then I'm out of it (mostly) not because I'm a coward (which I may well be anyway) but mostly because it is ungracious. But a bit of slagging is fine I think if someone sets themselves up as fair game.
Also I like the variety of topics discussed on here.
If I can help someone I will try to, and it's fun to state opinions.
Just because a musician has spent their life at it doesn't mean you have to like what they do. If you don't like eating pig's liver or boiled cabbage you'd say so wouldn't you? So similarly with a band or a musician. And just because you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't proficient. It's only an opinion.
As well as that, I think my playing has improved (don't know why), I have got to know a lot of other players and sessions, and also tunes, since I came on here.
Because people being people are all different with lots of experience and when you put all thos eexperiences together and take out the nonsense you hear a very wise person talking to you, people like Will and dow and even people with great humour that brings your feet back to earth, and that is why we come...we know there are differences in styles and standards, but you can read that from the replies..if you can stay open you will continue learning the more cynical you are the less you will take in and the less you will enjoy the full picture that life life and music and people offer you.
Many of you have used the argument that you come on here for fun/boredom etc. I have no problem with this.
My gripe is with the people who think that their music will benefit from being here. IT WILL NOT! Willie Clancy, Michael Coleman, John Mc Kenna etc did not have access to the web and they turned out alright!
It does provide a social platform for musicians to communicate with one another but it does not teach you Tansey's rolls, Touhey's back stitching or Seán Keane's bowed cranes!
"My gripe is with the people who think that their music will benefit from being here"
6 weeks ago I was ver unhappy with my bowing. My bow hold in particular, and my control. Unfortunaltely due to the fact that I'm building my house and I'm flat broke, I had to stop getting lessons for a while. Now, I'm the kind of person who believes that I can learn from everyone so I came here and posted my question. What I got was a fantastic amount of replys with advice on how to improve my bowing. From these suggestions, I went home and took them on board. Now, my playing has improved because my bowing has improved. What do you think is responsible for my improvement? It certainly wasnt anything to do with me practicing the wrong technique at home on my own, its was the help of the folks here. So yes, my music has benifited from me being here.
This site won't teach you how to play, but if people can find out a bit about session etiquette etc. before they go and wreck a real-life session, then that's a good thing.
As they would tell you in any pub: I've been coming here for years because I enjoy it and I meet my mates here. Our dog doesn't talk to me so I have to go out and find people for that purpose.When I'm with the band there never is enough time for music talk. And I enjoy to get a good mouthful of English.
My music also benefitted from The Session and I don't aspire to play like Coleman anyway.
Some people come here to deliberately upset others but it's easy to stay out of their way.
I visit this site because I enjoy it - and yes I have learned a boat load of practical advise on instrument set up, repair, technique and the overall session experience. I don't live in a place that has ample amounts of quality Irish musical culture. I am in one of the many far flung outposts of the session empire. I get my fixes where I can. I have read laugh out loud posts here, and also ones that leave me scratching my head in wonder. Sure there are plenty of goofy fluff threads here (I've posted my fair share) and there are pointless red faced arguments as well. But there are also quite a few great nuggets of wisdom that float by from time to time.
I just have the good sense to keep it all in perspective....
You may not learn Tansey's rolls, but you will learn what rolls are, and where they can be placed, and what it means to play them and what it does to the music, and where to emphasise which part of them and how to play them and lots of other things which many people never knew when they came here first...so criticise it but don't knock it...it helps a huge amount of people coming into trad.
You can listen to a roll and know that the fiddler is doing something unusual but without an explanation, try to find that out from listening to a record
"You may not learn Tansey's rolls, but you will learn what rolls are, and where they can be placed, and what it means to play them and what it does to the music, and where to emphasise which part of them and how to play them and lots of other things which many people never knew when"
But why aren't you listening and playing and figuring out the above mentioned rather than trying to find it out here. It's all there in the music, you do not need someone else to point it out to you. Someone who you have never met or heard play
"you do not need someone else to point it out to you. Someone who you have never met or heard play"
You dont need to hear someone to take their advice on board. I have never met or heard any of the guys here but I can make a pretty good guess as to who is a good musician and who isnt buy becoming familiar with them.
You dont have to take everything written on the mustard board as gospel. Just hear peoples advice and then decide what its worth afterwards.
You seem to be of the opinion that people who utilse this method of comunication dont listen to music properly or dont talk to people in the real world... the fact is, I for one will take advice, opinions, suggestions, tips, pointers and help from anywhere and everywhere. If it turns out to be sh*te, well it didnt cost me a thing.
If for absolutely no other reason (which is not the case in any event), this site would have saved me literally years learning ITM standard session tunes. When I first was learning and going to sessions, you simply couldn't ask the name of every tune so that you could go and find a version and practice along. This meant, for me, that the only practice I got was at the weekly session, and it took years then to learn a collection of tunes. I learned well, one might think, having had to learn by ear, but slightly embarrassingly now, I still don't know the names of many very standard tunes, and the names that I do know, I am not sure I can play them until I hear them. Not really important I guess until a learner asks me the name of that last tune, and I don't know! Also very awkward when other players ask me if can play so and so tune - again, don't know until I hear it. There are lists of standard tunes on this site that, in my experience anyway, are extremely helpful to beginners and not-so-beginners too.
As well the archive material on this site is an unbelieveably rich resource. Try finding out some of that information at your local session. There is a huge amount of information on instruments types, makes, quality, tutorial packages, etc, etc, which could save you megabucks.
I have recently researched tenor banjos and octave mandolins on this site and learned more in one evening than I had learned in about fifteen years.
It is a great resource.
Oh, and there's that tunes section too - how invaluable is that.
FIDDLE4 said 'music should be fun'. I would add that music should also be uplifting, haunting, sorrowful, calming, proud, etc.
This art form like many is reflective of life and contains many different emotions at the higher level of its understanding. To ignore these is a detour off the path to becoming a truly great musician.
This forum is great for socialising with musicians and making friends but I don't think it neccesarily helps your music. In fact in some cases it can be detrimental. For example under the 'dynamics in ITM' thread Janek replied 'theres two kinds - playing and not playing.' This is utter drivel no matter how tongue in cheek or how many are used.
Kenny said 'I come here to help'. But can Kenny really help?!? Sorry Kenny I'm not slagging you merely raising the possibility you might be the worst ill informed musician who thinks he knows it all. Equally you might be Frankie Gavin and that would be fantastic! The lack of regulation is the problem. Some might say its self regulated but this is not enough.
Shylock said '...when you put all those experiences together and take out the nonsense you hear a very wise person talking to you...' How do you know the wise from the nonsense though if you have a limited knowledge already? Maybe that person you think is wise is actually a little further down the food chain musically than you realise.
I have practised my fiddle for 40 minutes my banjo for 30 minutes,my concertina for70 minutes ,i have spent two hours paining my house,now Iam going to play my guitar,Iam having agreat time, bye.Dick Miles
Yes, I agree with VocalDivaSteed: people like Kenny ought to be ashamed of themselves. I mean, they think they bloody well know it all, even though they've only been playing 30 odd years and are well known and respected musicians who've played in sessions across the globe, have vast repertoires and finely honed technique. How dare he come on this website and try and help? Jeremy should delete his account at once.
You're right, though, johnny47. No way people with 2 years experience playing zither should be allowed to criticize talented musicians - it's a complete and utter disgrace!
And gutless people in pubs hiding behind their pints shouldn't be allowed to cast aspersions on their country's leaders. And those who gossip about movie actors' lives without a shred of real evidence ought to be be hauled off and horse-whipped.
Back in the days of Coleman and Clancy no-one would waste time on idle chatter like this or criticize their betters! They spent all of their free time practicing their tunes.
Well johny I have my fiddle in my hands, or another instrument all day every day. apartv from minor distractions like feeding my kids etc This board is a amuses me. . I am away for months on end so when I have internet , why not? . I might be recording a musician in the studio while discussing a point on the board. beats staring at a VU while the client tunes their guitar Again!
I enjoy learning and I enjoy teaching . I dont like some of the bull spouted from a few folk here, so I offer an alternative viewpoint . Not to convince or impress anyone. just to offer a counter weight to the dogma offered. If everyone agreed the board would be a dull place.
For me, a session is as much about the craic as it is about the music. You go have some pints with your mates. You play some tunes. Sometimes the music is great, but I'll take a session with my friends, where the conversation is great, over a session with great music where nobody talks to each other! (I've been in a few of those)
Playing Irish music is a social activity. And therefore this is a social website for the same reasons. I meet people here and become friends with them. We have something in common to begin with, and I have made some great friendships with the aid of the social interaction on this site. What good does that do me? Well, for starters, I could travel to just about anywhere in the US, UK, or Australia and have friends to stay with, and people to play music with.
Being active on this website does not preclude you from playing music, it enhances it.
Since you seem to think it's a waste of time, why don't YOU go practice, instead of trying to stir the pot with your rather rude attitude?
Johnny, you're way, way off the mark with your comments about this site. I've seen this before, this defensive reaction for regulars here projected as mild aggression and disdain for their comments. Shame, cos I don't like to see people suffering yet you insist on digging your own grave. Otherwise I for one would have welcomed you.
I started coming on this board two years ago when I was a brand new beginner because a) I was extremely excited about this new endeavour and wanted to share it with others who felt the same way, and b) I was terrified that I would fail at it and quit, and I was looking for encouragement.
For two years, it's served both those needs well. Some things have changed with me though---a) I now have session-mates and musical friends to share the experience, and b) I'm not quite so scared anymore and know for sure that I'll never quit.
That said, I've learned some very useful things on this board and met some friends. I am growing tired of all the arguing, though, so I've been posting less. Funny that some people find the flame wars entertaining---I find them totally boring. Especially to go back and read after the fact. Compare some of the threads from 3 or 4 years ago to recent ones---they hold up much better, they're filled with musical tips and ideas, it's not just people calling each other eedjits all day long.
I think of this website as an online version of hanging out at the pub talking sh1te with other folks who share a passion for the music (and the drink...) but don't necessarily agree about much else. If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine. I personally find this site to run the gamut from useful and interesting to frustrating and infuriating. It's quite variable, and to me that's part of the appeal.
My playing has certainly improved as a result of things I have read about here. But I won't pretend to know if the amount of time I spend/waste here justifies the benefits. It's not a particularly interesting question. This site is an obviously good thing to me, in the same way that playing music is.
Well, I certainly don’t come here as a substitute for playing music. I play music *and* I come here. I come for the krak, the thought-provoking discussions, the verbal abuse, the suggestions from more experienced players on tunes to consider, and on and on. I also enjoy the rare, occasional opportunity to be helpful when the question is something I know well. And to be humbled and reminded of the extent of my own ignorance.
I admit it. I am at work. I should be working. Instead, I'm thinking about Irish traditional music.
I've learned a lot from the people on this site. About attitudes, about the whole culture surrounding the music and sessions. I've gotten great tips on musicians to listen to, opinions about strings and gear, etiquette tips and more. I'm grown up and heads up enough to know this isn't the real world, I take it for what it's worth.
It seems to me that some people live in remote parts of the planet, and there is little opportunity to socialize with others of a like mind and share their love of this music. I'm thinking Montana here, maybe Wyoming, or Colorado, or some outcast part of Washington State. If it weren't for the fact that Santa Barbara is somewhere, I'd probably be done writing this by now.
"ITM is a rare drink, but it does go well with buffalo burgers."
I'm with Welshman , too much crap and useless windups on this board now to sift through, I too won't be missed but i've been on this board for a long long time and I used to get a lot out of it , no longer.........
SWFL's tone is frivolous but his message is geniune (I got that from the front of a recipe book called "Eat your way to happiness!"). During these dark days of exams, living in a house which is un-friendly towards ITM, I like to come to this site for a good laugh. So sue me.
Johnny 47.. Well at least you proved that there are at least 60 people, including myself, with nothing better to do. As for my Bullsh*t..a typing error I'm afraid. The star is just over the I on the keyboard and when touch typing (as I do) it can be clipped easy enough.
I'll second Fidkid. I live in an area where there aren't many musicians to talk to, and my current lifestyle means I rarely get to sessions to play or to talk to those who are around. However, this site helps me to keep in touch with what is happening in the arena. I've been a member here for nearly two years and I now know who knows their stuff and who is, like me, still finding their way. This site is helpful and friendly on the whole, and if you are civil and not too arrogant then folks greet you that way in return. We have also had fun by the bucketload.
It's sad to see that so many good folk have been put off by the trolls and the arguments. I have done the same over the last six to eight months, but it doesn't stop me from dropping by every now and then and learning new things and trying to help others when I think I may have something useful to contribute.
You can knock this site if you want to, but there are many of us who will disagree with you.
"frivolous" yet "genuine" [bows] Thank you mehitabel, and I hope we brighten your days! You sure do for me!
...and darn it, I'm going sit here in the trenches battling these trolling arguments because I want all those good people back here, and I don't want to lose anymore! A lost cause? A hopeless battle? I don't know, and I don't care. The battle and sticking it out is worth it to me, for the knowledge, the educated discussions and the craic.
The best way to handle trolls is to let the moderator suss them out and give them the boot. Failing that, the next best gambit is to ignore them. A united front works best but can be difficult to maintain.
Fidkid said above that this isn't the real world. I have to respectfully disagree. There are real people behind every pixel that gets posted here. It's at least as real as a phone call. The people I've met in meatspace through this board have all turned out to be very much like their screen personalities.
Sure, some people come on here and pretend to be someone they're not. Or behave in ways they never would if we were face to face. That's bound to happen on an open board with members scattered around the world. And that's why Jeremy moderates things--suspending or banning people when their behavior reaches the tipping point.
Of course, our Benevolent Dictator has other priorities to attend to, and now and then someone goes too far, someone else gets fed up or has their feelings hurt, and they're gone before the problem can be addressed. Over the years, a few people have emailed (and even called) me in tears over the personal attacks levied at them. Clearly, it felt "real" to them. Public humiliation usually does, no matter what forum it occurs in.
So the rule is "be civil." I'd argue that relentless trolling or baiting isn't civil. Neither is returning from a suspension only to continue the same behavior that got you suspended in the first place. And we've seen a lot of both around here lately.
Still, the good-natured, fun people far outnumber the eejits here.
Something you said in the last couple of days really resonated with me: "At least future readers will be able to easily distinguish the sensible, helpful posts from the others--on tone alone". There are a lot of great people here - there are ones with whom I disagree on certain topics that I would still consider great people.
I was one of the people that was driven away from the discussions here for a while because of all the vitriol at one point. But now, it's just a matter of trying to ignore the trolls.
And taking a page out of SWFL's book, when I do confront them, I try to do it with a reasonable tone, without getting personal or nasty, using humor when appropriate. That doesn't always work, but it usually does. I've only really lost my cool on one occasion, and that's what led me to leaving for a while - I am hoping that it never gets to that point again, because I missed the good friends that I have here.
my realworld method of ignoring people (sticking my fingers in my ears and chanting "ah la la la la la la" until they stop) doesn't work here, but it's still a good strategy. come to think of it though, it's not very effective at my session either
Well, airport, if you did it in time, you might be able to drown out the bodhran player in the corner. But I would suggest sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "hum dee diddle dum diddly dee" instead. (Although, it might be hard to play fiddle while you're doing that...)
This is kind of like 'why is there air?' You're not really looking for an answer, you just want to poke around in theory and humpf.
Since everybody who visits this board has a different reason for being here, a question like 'why do you bother?' of necessity has as many answers as people involved. Since I've only posted twice in the year or so I've been lurking, the question has an entirely different feel to me than it does to someone who posts innumerable times in the space of an hour.
So I bother because I'm working a night shift and have two hours to kill before I can go home...or I log on 10 minutes before I got to bed just to see what the topics are and which ones are getting the most feedback, I bother because someone we play with has gone off on someone else over an issue that i didn't realize was a hot-button topic (say, playing ITM from printed music) until i read other posters here go ballistic on the same subject. Or I bother because you're all interesting people with opinions and I find humanity interesting.
Usually someone who asks a question like this either has an answer he wants to hear (to convince him he's right or wrong, usually) or just likes to pontificate. So, Johnny, did you find what you were looking for?
ah Reverend, I see we share the hope of being saved from the bodhran player. That's some seriously traditional eschatology (I was somewhat disappointed to learn that word has nothing to do with animal droppings)
Oh, don't get me wrong... I don't mind bodhran players, in general, but being a banjo player, I like it when the fun is poked in another direction from time to time
"Bodhráns elicit hope in survival after earthly existence, which can be proved by the fact that the majority of the canon of apocalyptic literature was written during times of great suffering....."
Johny, its not all get you know. its give too. But I wonder myself too, why do I bother. It sometimes seems like a mutual appreciation society where your only allowed to speak if you agree with the gestalt. Strange people inhabit these boards...But then We all have many facets to our personalities. . some people are really two faced. Ahh what a weird race of beings altogether mankind... There is a school of thought that says we are doomed to self destruction due to the way our brains are built. the different layers. the reptilian brain and all that. And looking at the world around us they could be right. So why bother with anything? why bother with life even? why bother getting out of bed? learning to play an instrument? attempting to communicate with self important egotists? Why bother indeed?
blessed are the easy marks, bliss, for they will inherit the earth...
I hereby recind my one and only slanderous bodhran remark - didn't mean it - only wish we had a bodhran player of our own (to slag). ooh, I didn't mean that either.
I enjoy being able to discuss music which I both enjoy playing and listening to with other people who like this music as much as I do. This is Why I Bother--even though there are people on this web site who disapprove of the fact that I play an electronic keyboard instead of an acoustic instrument.
The only reason I bother is because I dont live in Ireland - its hard to get a tune, its nice to be able to talk to other like minded people - although I agree - it is outrageous to slag off other musicians....it seems to be a running theme. Its also interesting that alot of people on this site seem to tell everyone else what they should be doing etc when they have no clue about tunes at all. Part of the reason I go on this site is for entertainment value.
I get a lot of learning here from experienced players, links to
great sites that I would not know of otherwise, and, I admit, a lot of laughs, a LOT of good laughs. (I know....get a life !!!)
Why do you bother?
Why do you bother?
I come onto this site now and again for a browse and get great entertainment out of the level of bullshit spewed! My question is, why do you bother? Why don't you just go home and practice your instrument and listen to music? There is so much music out there to be listened to and absorbed. Go seek out O'Loughlin's recordings of Tommy Potts or the O'Neill cylinders of Patsy Touhey. Absolutley majestic!
Sitting around on the internet all day is not going to help your music. The tunes section is not an excuse either. Put your hand in yor pocket and buy all the Ceol Rince's or O'Neills or The Joyce Collection etc etc Or just listen and learn!
This post is not meant to be ignorant, snidey or whatever else you will accuse me of. I am genuinely interested in what some of you get out of this??
I see established, talented musician's names being thrown about and often criticised here, which for me, is outrageous behaviour. There is a reason why they go about thier business and reach a level of musicianship that many people won't and they do not seem to spend too much time here.
Again, I am not being insulting or anything else, I just can't understand why you would bother!??
Cheers
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
I think you need to discuss music as well as playing it, and for some reason the opportunity to get together and play is never the right time to discuss it - for that, you need some measure of distance.
I think this site is a really great balance to the actual playing and it would be a missed opportunity not to be able to both discuss *and* play.
Besides, I've met and played with musicians as a result of being on this site - including working via email with Helen Roche before appearing with her on stage. And that's just one example of "why bother".
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Why do you bother?
Put it this way johnny, people who do this would do the same on forums dealing with different issues than ITM. It's a personality thing rather than people who have troubles dealing with the music.
Well, that's my opinion of it anyway. We (the observers) do get a good laugh from it the odd time though.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by 52Paddy
Re: Why do you bother?
1: Have you not considered most people are here, while they are at working?
2:Are you Jig?
3: Are you Frisbee?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Why do you bother?
duh, at work....
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Why do you bother?
Very suspicious. Could this be the Fourth Coming?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Why do you bother?
Guess there might be a balance to be had - ie for every hour on the site, make sure you play for an hour. Would that be the right balance, though?
And it depends - sometimes there are sessions where I would definitely have been better using my time to be on here!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Why do you bother?
I come here to discuss music with a larger group of people than the small group that plays locally. Yes, one must separate the wheat from the chaff, but there are a lot of good people on this board, from whom I have learned a lot about the music, things that I might otherwise never have learned. And if you ignore the 'trolls,' you can have a lot of good laughs.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Why do you bother?
Mark - I agree that discussion is a good thing but it is limited. When I want a discussion about traditional music, i ring friends or meet them for a pint. People who I know are a talented, well informed musicians. How can you value a discussion with someone about music when you have never heard them play or spoke to them directly about music?
Again, this brings me back to my original point. For example, how can great musicians be insulted or criticised here and the person criticising says they have been playing for 2 years on their profile? I honestly can't value this person's opinion until they impress me musically or I know that they really understand the never ending intricicies, subleties and colour of the music.
Hugo, I can't argue with the work point! But I do know of some great websites rather than this, just delete your history after!
Joking aside, if it is boredom, fair enough! But why not channel the boredom into listening or playing?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
I wholeheartedly agree with you johnny47.
There is only so much you can glean from the mustard board without actual interaction with good knowledgable musicians. A vital part of the aural transmission of the tradition is osmosis - this to my mind cannot occur here, or if it does it does so to a far lesser degree than actually meeting great musicians.
Typing as opposed to talking is a poor second in terms of communication. Indeed I have read a good many posts here that have been wildly misinterpreted.
When I go for a tune with friends we often get to talking about the music so much that we have to remind ourselves to play another tune! Maybe thats the wrong thing to do I don't know. What I do know is that the standard of musicianship stays very high and is reinvigoured by '....do you play Caseys version of Colonel Frazers??' '....i got a great tape of Peter Horan today, he plays this on it...' etc. etc.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Why do you bother?
Warts and all, sites like thesession are a much better cross section of the wider ITM community compared to your local mates. All sorts of people are here with hugely varying cultural backgrounds, abilities and egos. So you're bound to get a much variety of views - it's up to you to find the truth buried in all the verbage.
Yeah, I'm taking a little break from that which I do for a living.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Why do you bother?
Definitely something I do when I'm at work....and need to remind myself of what I love rather than what I have to do to survive, pay the mortgage etc
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by FiddleFancy
Re: Why do you bother?
I suppose I am only interested in a niche part of this wide ITM community so I find some peoples views on the subject irrelevant.
Johnny47 made a good point that the mandolin/zither player living in Nebraska who's been playing for 2 years has not got anywhere near the knowledge needed to comment on posts like like 'Traditionalist view of dynamics' or 'Subdivision of genres within Traditional Irish Music'.
No offence to Nebraskan mandolin players by the way!!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Why do you bother?
Why have you bothered?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Farr
Re: Why do you bother?
You ask a surprisingly wise question johnny and one I have recently been asking myself lately - what am I getting out of the mustard board? The answer quite honestly is very little. I am so damned tired of the nauseating arrogance of some and the downright rudeness of others that I have largely stopped contributing. In fact (and before someone tries to point score) I have decided to cease participating in the board for the reasons stated above.
If I want to listen to people talking sense about music there are plenty of places we can all access in the real world, I do not need (or want) the hassle of putting up with the intense level of flaming that occurs in this forum. It is tiresome and gives newcomers to ITM a dreadful imprssion of what the tradition is about.
So I leave the board in the hands of those who would destroy the tradition with their arrogance and egocentricity. I doubt I will be missed and equally I will not mourn them.
D
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by WelshGuy
Re: Why do you bother?
Ha ha ha ha ya wind up merchant.. but I'll entertain your questions anyway.
1. I have yet to discover a method of playing my fiddle at work without the boss spotting me/hearing me. When I do this I will endeavour to play more and surf the internet less.
2. When I'm at work thinking about my playing and I come up with a question would you rather I not ask?? There are times when the absolute wealth of knowledge these people have to share is invaluable. for example http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17352
3. "Sitting around on the internet all day is not going to help your music"..... sitting around playing the fiddle all day is not going to feed me, cloth me or put strings on my fiddle.
Wind up merchant!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by session savage
Re: Why do you bother?
Why is he a 'wind up merchant'? He's asking a very valid question. This seems to be a recent trend here.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Why do you bother?
So Johnny47 ........You come on here to be entertained by the bullsh*t and then you want to know why we bother posting. Surely a contradiction in terms. If there was no discussions then you wouldn't be entertained. Maybe we are all so proficient on our instruments that we don't need to practice anymore and can just sit back and talk about the music instead (I wish I had a 'roll eyes smiley' for this bit)
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Why do you bother?
Farr - congratulations, I was waiting for some genius to come up with that one.
session savage - You're first and third point are completely irrelevant. The discussion you refer to in point 2. obviously was of benefit to some people. These discussions occur here but are rare. However, rather than coming on here and asking people who you have never heard play (and obviously do not know if they are qualified to give their opinion on bowing or not), why not listen to the clip and spend time practicing your bowing. Rather than waiting for a response here, go and play!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
Dunno about you, Johnny boy, but I can listen and type at the same time, PJ Harvey on at the minute, great stuff. If you don't like the site, well, you can always not bother logging in, there again, you might miss something if you did that! It's a bit of harmless fun, mainly, and it's a free world, apart from the bit I live in, of course.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Why do you bother?
Free Reed - I said I come here the odd time to be entertained by the bullsh*t (It's ok you can type the word, I am sure no one will be offended), my point is I do not take the opinions contributed seriously. Maybe you are in the same boat. There are many people here who discuss,argue and give advice, but on what merit?
With regard to music, I have always been of the opinion "put up or shut up"
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
"You're first and third point are completely irrelevant"
How.?? I only come here when I cant play. Whether I visit here or not has NO bearing on the amount of time I spend playing or listening to music.
"why not listen to the clip and spend time practicing your bowing. Rather than waiting for a response here, go and play"
Well DUH! but I cant exactly do that in the office here can I?
People dont come here INSTEAD of playing music, the come here as a quick fix when they cant play music, to talk about the music, sometimes seek help and advice... and on that point "you do not know if they are qualified to give their opinion on bowing or not"... what I do (I can only speak for myself) I take on board all the advice given to me, I go home and I try everything. I will know pretty much straight away which advice is good. Even before trying the advice offered its easy to spot the good advice. For example if one person says hold the bow with your nose and upper lip and 15 people say use your hand ..... your not gonna use your nose are you? you will give more merit to a piece of advice given by the majority.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by session savage
Re: Why do you bother?
Is a bit like fleadhs in the old days music + craic..
Now all the young ones seem to want to do is play music all,
all ,all ,day - and nearly all. all. reels at that ,, When we went to
fleadhs - we wanted plenty on craic {fun} to, Sometime music
can get toooooooooo serious ,, MUSIC SHOULD BE FUN,,
JIM,,
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Why do you bother?
I wholeheartedly agree Jim.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by session savage
Re: Why do you bother?
Assuming the question is not a wind-up, I like coming on here and having a laugh and a joke about this music which I enjoy playing.
I like the odd argument, as long as it doesn't get too intense - then I'm out of it (mostly) not because I'm a coward (which I may well be anyway) but mostly because it is ungracious. But a bit of slagging is fine I think if someone sets themselves up as fair game.
Also I like the variety of topics discussed on here.
If I can help someone I will try to, and it's fun to state opinions.
Just because a musician has spent their life at it doesn't mean you have to like what they do. If you don't like eating pig's liver or boiled cabbage you'd say so wouldn't you? So similarly with a band or a musician. And just because you don't like them doesn't mean they aren't proficient. It's only an opinion.
As well as that, I think my playing has improved (don't know why), I have got to know a lot of other players and sessions, and also tunes, since I came on here.
Thanks again Jeremy!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do you bother?
I come here to help.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Why do you bother?
Because people being people are all different with lots of experience and when you put all thos eexperiences together and take out the nonsense you hear a very wise person talking to you, people like Will and dow and even people with great humour that brings your feet back to earth, and that is why we come...we know there are differences in styles and standards, but you can read that from the replies..if you can stay open you will continue learning the more cynical you are the less you will take in and the less you will enjoy the full picture that life life and music and people offer you.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Shylock
Re: Why do you bother?
I come here to tell people not to put blutack on their instruments.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by reenactor
Re: Why do you bother?
Many of you have used the argument that you come on here for fun/boredom etc. I have no problem with this.
My gripe is with the people who think that their music will benefit from being here. IT WILL NOT! Willie Clancy, Michael Coleman, John Mc Kenna etc did not have access to the web and they turned out alright!
It does provide a social platform for musicians to communicate with one another but it does not teach you Tansey's rolls, Touhey's back stitching or Seán Keane's bowed cranes!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
"My gripe is with the people who think that their music will benefit from being here"
6 weeks ago I was ver unhappy with my bowing. My bow hold in particular, and my control. Unfortunaltely due to the fact that I'm building my house and I'm flat broke, I had to stop getting lessons for a while. Now, I'm the kind of person who believes that I can learn from everyone so I came here and posted my question. What I got was a fantastic amount of replys with advice on how to improve my bowing. From these suggestions, I went home and took them on board. Now, my playing has improved because my bowing has improved. What do you think is responsible for my improvement? It certainly wasnt anything to do with me practicing the wrong technique at home on my own, its was the help of the folks here. So yes, my music has benifited from me being here.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by session savage
Re: Why do you bother?
This site won't teach you how to play, but if people can find out a bit about session etiquette etc. before they go and wreck a real-life session, then that's a good thing.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Dr. Dow
Re: Why do you bother?
As they would tell you in any pub: I've been coming here for years because I enjoy it and I meet my mates here. Our dog doesn't talk to me so I have to go out and find people for that purpose.When I'm with the band there never is enough time for music talk. And I enjoy to get a good mouthful of English.
My music also benefitted from The Session and I don't aspire to play like Coleman anyway.
Some people come here to deliberately upset others but it's easy to stay out of their way.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by kuec
Re: Why do you bother?
I visit this site because I enjoy it - and yes I have learned a boat load of practical advise on instrument set up, repair, technique and the overall session experience. I don't live in a place that has ample amounts of quality Irish musical culture. I am in one of the many far flung outposts of the session empire. I get my fixes where I can. I have read laugh out loud posts here, and also ones that leave me scratching my head in wonder. Sure there are plenty of goofy fluff threads here (I've posted my fair share) and there are pointless red faced arguments as well. But there are also quite a few great nuggets of wisdom that float by from time to time.
I just have the good sense to keep it all in perspective....
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Why do you bother?
You may not learn Tansey's rolls, but you will learn what rolls are, and where they can be placed, and what it means to play them and what it does to the music, and where to emphasise which part of them and how to play them and lots of other things which many people never knew when they came here first...so criticise it but don't knock it...it helps a huge amount of people coming into trad.
You can listen to a roll and know that the fiddler is doing something unusual but without an explanation, try to find that out from listening to a record
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Shylock
Re: Why do you bother?
This is a fairly silly thread and I think it's going to get even sillier before long.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Why do you bother?
"You may not learn Tansey's rolls, but you will learn what rolls are, and where they can be placed, and what it means to play them and what it does to the music, and where to emphasise which part of them and how to play them and lots of other things which many people never knew when"
But why aren't you listening and playing and figuring out the above mentioned rather than trying to find it out here. It's all there in the music, you do not need someone else to point it out to you. Someone who you have never met or heard play
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by johnny47
Re: Why do you bother?
"you do not need someone else to point it out to you. Someone who you have never met or heard play"
You dont need to hear someone to take their advice on board. I have never met or heard any of the guys here but I can make a pretty good guess as to who is a good musician and who isnt buy becoming familiar with them.
You dont have to take everything written on the mustard board as gospel. Just hear peoples advice and then decide what its worth afterwards.
You seem to be of the opinion that people who utilse this method of comunication dont listen to music properly or dont talk to people in the real world... the fact is, I for one will take advice, opinions, suggestions, tips, pointers and help from anywhere and everywhere. If it turns out to be sh*te, well it didnt cost me a thing.
But.. to each his own I guess.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by session savage
Re: Why do you bother?
If for absolutely no other reason (which is not the case in any event), this site would have saved me literally years learning ITM standard session tunes. When I first was learning and going to sessions, you simply couldn't ask the name of every tune so that you could go and find a version and practice along. This meant, for me, that the only practice I got was at the weekly session, and it took years then to learn a collection of tunes. I learned well, one might think, having had to learn by ear, but slightly embarrassingly now, I still don't know the names of many very standard tunes, and the names that I do know, I am not sure I can play them until I hear them. Not really important I guess until a learner asks me the name of that last tune, and I don't know! Also very awkward when other players ask me if can play so and so tune - again, don't know until I hear it. There are lists of standard tunes on this site that, in my experience anyway, are extremely helpful to beginners and not-so-beginners too.
As well the archive material on this site is an unbelieveably rich resource. Try finding out some of that information at your local session. There is a huge amount of information on instruments types, makes, quality, tutorial packages, etc, etc, which could save you megabucks.
I have recently researched tenor banjos and octave mandolins on this site and learned more in one evening than I had learned in about fifteen years.
It is a great resource.
Oh, and there's that tunes section too - how invaluable is that.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Why do you bother?
FIDDLE4 said 'music should be fun'. I would add that music should also be uplifting, haunting, sorrowful, calming, proud, etc.
are used.
;-D 
sorry my fingers slipped there....
This art form like many is reflective of life and contains many different emotions at the higher level of its understanding. To ignore these is a detour off the path to becoming a truly great musician.
This forum is great for socialising with musicians and making friends but I don't think it neccesarily helps your music. In fact in some cases it can be detrimental. For example under the 'dynamics in ITM' thread Janek replied 'theres two kinds - playing and not playing.' This is utter drivel no matter how tongue in cheek or how many
Kenny said 'I come here to help'. But can Kenny really help?!? Sorry Kenny I'm not slagging you merely raising the possibility you might be the worst ill informed musician who thinks he knows it all. Equally you might be Frankie Gavin and that would be fantastic! The lack of regulation is the problem. Some might say its self regulated but this is not enough.
Shylock said '...when you put all those experiences together and take out the nonsense you hear a very wise person talking to you...' How do you know the wise from the nonsense though if you have a limited knowledge already? Maybe that person you think is wise is actually a little further down the food chain musically than you realise.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Why do you bother?
I have practised my fiddle for 40 minutes my banjo for 30 minutes,my concertina for70 minutes ,i have spent two hours paining my house,now Iam going to play my guitar,Iam having agreat time, bye.Dick Miles
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: Why do you bother?
Yes, I agree with VocalDivaSteed: people like Kenny ought to be ashamed of themselves. I mean, they think they bloody well know it all, even though they've only been playing 30 odd years and are well known and respected musicians who've played in sessions across the globe, have vast repertoires and finely honed technique. How dare he come on this website and try and help? Jeremy should delete his account at once.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Dr. Dow
Re: Why do you bother?
Hi Johnny47,
I don't post much, but I come here to enjoy music, and to learn.
You don't understand how that's possible?
OK. For instance:
A few days ago Hugo posted a Youtube documentary on Altan. I watched it, and I am now a better musician as a result.
You figure it out.
Jim
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Jmbu
Re: Why do you bother?
To put it simply, I don't need to practice having reached the pinnacle.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do you bother?
Reminds me of this: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8643
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Why do you bother?
You're right, though, johnny47. No way people with 2 years experience playing zither should be allowed to criticize talented musicians - it's a complete and utter disgrace!
And gutless people in pubs hiding behind their pints shouldn't be allowed to cast aspersions on their country's leaders. And those who gossip about movie actors' lives without a shred of real evidence ought to be be hauled off and horse-whipped.
Back in the days of Coleman and Clancy no-one would waste time on idle chatter like this or criticize their betters! They spent all of their free time practicing their tunes.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by grego
Re: Why do you bother?
Well johny I have my fiddle in my hands, or another instrument all day every day. apartv from minor distractions like feeding my kids etc This board is a amuses me. . I am away for months on end so when I have internet , why not? . I might be recording a musician in the studio while discussing a point on the board. beats staring at a VU while the client tunes their guitar
Again!
I enjoy learning and I enjoy teaching . I dont like some of the bull spouted from a few folk here, so I offer an alternative viewpoint . Not to convince or impress anyone. just to offer a counter weight to the dogma offered. If everyone agreed the board would be a dull place.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Why do you bother?
"I don't need to practice having reached the pinnacle" - so the only direction available now is down?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Why do you bother?
For me, a session is as much about the craic as it is about the music. You go have some pints with your mates. You play some tunes. Sometimes the music is great, but I'll take a session with my friends, where the conversation is great, over a session with great music where nobody talks to each other! (I've been in a few of those)
Playing Irish music is a social activity. And therefore this is a social website for the same reasons. I meet people here and become friends with them. We have something in common to begin with, and I have made some great friendships with the aid of the social interaction on this site. What good does that do me? Well, for starters, I could travel to just about anywhere in the US, UK, or Australia and have friends to stay with, and people to play music with.
Being active on this website does not preclude you from playing music, it enhances it.
Since you seem to think it's a waste of time, why don't YOU go practice, instead of trying to stir the pot with your rather rude attitude?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Why do you bother?
Johnny, you're way, way off the mark with your comments about this site. I've seen this before, this defensive reaction for regulars here projected as mild aggression and disdain for their comments. Shame, cos I don't like to see people suffering yet you insist on digging your own grave. Otherwise I for one would have welcomed you.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do you bother?
I started coming on this board two years ago when I was a brand new beginner because a) I was extremely excited about this new endeavour and wanted to share it with others who felt the same way, and b) I was terrified that I would fail at it and quit, and I was looking for encouragement.
For two years, it's served both those needs well. Some things have changed with me though---a) I now have session-mates and musical friends to share the experience, and b) I'm not quite so scared anymore and know for sure that I'll never quit.
That said, I've learned some very useful things on this board and met some friends. I am growing tired of all the arguing, though, so I've been posting less. Funny that some people find the flame wars entertaining---I find them totally boring. Especially to go back and read after the fact. Compare some of the threads from 3 or 4 years ago to recent ones---they hold up much better, they're filled with musical tips and ideas, it's not just people calling each other eedjits all day long.
Anyway. You asked.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Why do you bother?
The nice thing is that if you don't like it, you don't have to come here and read it! Isn't that great?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do you bother?
johnny47 -- You raise an interesting concern...
I think of this website as an online version of hanging out at the pub talking sh1te with other folks who share a passion for the music (and the drink...) but don't necessarily agree about much else. If that's not your cup of tea, that's fine. I personally find this site to run the gamut from useful and interesting to frustrating and infuriating. It's quite variable, and to me that's part of the appeal.
My playing has certainly improved as a result of things I have read about here. But I won't pretend to know if the amount of time I spend/waste here justifies the benefits. It's not a particularly interesting question. This site is an obviously good thing to me, in the same way that playing music is.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by timmy!
Re: Why do you bother?
Well, I certainly don’t come here as a substitute for playing music. I play music *and* I come here. I come for the krak, the thought-provoking discussions, the verbal abuse, the suggestions from more experienced players on tunes to consider, and on and on. I also enjoy the rare, occasional opportunity to be helpful when the question is something I know well. And to be humbled and reminded of the extent of my own ignorance.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Why do you bother?
I admit it. I am at work. I should be working. Instead, I'm thinking about Irish traditional music.
I've learned a lot from the people on this site. About attitudes, about the whole culture surrounding the music and sessions. I've gotten great tips on musicians to listen to, opinions about strings and gear, etiquette tips and more. I'm grown up and heads up enough to know this isn't the real world, I take it for what it's worth.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by fidkid
Re: Why do you bother?
It seems to me that some people live in remote parts of the planet, and there is little opportunity to socialize with others of a like mind and share their love of this music. I'm thinking Montana here, maybe Wyoming, or Colorado, or some outcast part of Washington State. If it weren't for the fact that Santa Barbara is somewhere, I'd probably be done writing this by now.
"ITM is a rare drink, but it does go well with buffalo burgers."
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Eliot
Re: Why do you bother?
I'm with Welshman , too much crap and useless windups on this board now to sift through, I too won't be missed but i've been on this board for a long long time and I used to get a lot out of it , no longer.........
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Seasider
Re: Why do you bother?
I guess the colour is what does it for me.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Why do you bother?
I come for the O'Boobigan's myself. Preferably, two of them.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do you bother?
...or south-western Florida, Eliot!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do you bother?
SWFL's tone is frivolous but his message is geniune (I got that from the front of a recipe book called "Eat your way to happiness!"). During these dark days of exams, living in a house which is un-friendly towards ITM, I like to come to this site for a good laugh. So sue me.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Why do you bother?
Johnny 47.. Well at least you proved that there are at least 60 people, including myself, with nothing better to do. As for my Bullsh*t..a typing error I'm afraid. The star is just over the I on the keyboard and when touch typing (as I do) it can be clipped easy enough.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Why do you bother?
Ah... so it wasn't a typing error. How strange is that.????
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Why do you bother?
I'll second Fidkid. I live in an area where there aren't many musicians to talk to, and my current lifestyle means I rarely get to sessions to play or to talk to those who are around. However, this site helps me to keep in touch with what is happening in the arena. I've been a member here for nearly two years and I now know who knows their stuff and who is, like me, still finding their way. This site is helpful and friendly on the whole, and if you are civil and not too arrogant then folks greet you that way in return. We have also had fun by the bucketload.
It's sad to see that so many good folk have been put off by the trolls and the arguments. I have done the same over the last six to eight months, but it doesn't stop me from dropping by every now and then and learning new things and trying to help others when I think I may have something useful to contribute.
You can knock this site if you want to, but there are many of us who will disagree with you.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by bowburner
Re: Why do you bother?
"frivolous" yet "genuine" [bows] Thank you mehitabel, and I hope we brighten your days! You sure do for me!
...and darn it, I'm going sit here in the trenches battling these trolling arguments because I want all those good people back here, and I don't want to lose anymore! A lost cause? A hopeless battle? I don't know, and I don't care. The battle and sticking it out is worth it to me, for the knowledge, the educated discussions and the craic.
Bless us one and all! In mustard we trust!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do you bother?
SWFL. You have my burning bow to join you in this treacherous battle against the terrifying foe
All Hail The Mighty Mustard. Let the Good Folk return with banners raised high....
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by bowburner
Re: Why do you bother?
"I don't need to practice having reached the pinnacle" - so the only direction available now is down?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by lazyhound
My exact words every night after the first two tunes. I keep saying I should retire on top, like Henin and Sorenson.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do you bother?
I'm perfectly content to let other people judge whether what I post here helps them or not. You can not decide that for them.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Why do you bother?
The best way to handle trolls is to let the moderator suss them out and give them the boot. Failing that, the next best gambit is to ignore them. A united front works best but can be difficult to maintain.
Fidkid said above that this isn't the real world. I have to respectfully disagree. There are real people behind every pixel that gets posted here. It's at least as real as a phone call. The people I've met in meatspace through this board have all turned out to be very much like their screen personalities.
Sure, some people come on here and pretend to be someone they're not. Or behave in ways they never would if we were face to face. That's bound to happen on an open board with members scattered around the world. And that's why Jeremy moderates things--suspending or banning people when their behavior reaches the tipping point.
Of course, our Benevolent Dictator has other priorities to attend to, and now and then someone goes too far, someone else gets fed up or has their feelings hurt, and they're gone before the problem can be addressed. Over the years, a few people have emailed (and even called) me in tears over the personal attacks levied at them. Clearly, it felt "real" to them. Public humiliation usually does, no matter what forum it occurs in.
So the rule is "be civil." I'd argue that relentless trolling or baiting isn't civil. Neither is returning from a suspension only to continue the same behavior that got you suspended in the first place. And we've seen a lot of both around here lately.
Still, the good-natured, fun people far outnumber the eejits here.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Why do you bother?
A little microcosm of the planet Will, eh? Mostly good people, and smattering of eejits, Jusa Nutter excluded, of course.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Why do you bother?
Heh, more like a quicky slice of a skewed cross section of fruit cake. Some threads get stuck with all the nuts....
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Why do you bother?
Well said, Puddy Tat.
Something you said in the last couple of days really resonated with me: "At least future readers will be able to easily distinguish the sensible, helpful posts from the others--on tone alone". There are a lot of great people here - there are ones with whom I disagree on certain topics that I would still consider great people.
I was one of the people that was driven away from the discussions here for a while because of all the vitriol at one point. But now, it's just a matter of trying to ignore the trolls.
And taking a page out of SWFL's book, when I do confront them, I try to do it with a reasonable tone, without getting personal or nasty, using humor when appropriate. That doesn't always work, but it usually does. I've only really lost my cool on one occasion, and that's what led me to leaving for a while - I am hoping that it never gets to that point again, because I missed the good friends that I have here.
OK, group hug, then back to work...
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Why do you bother?
my realworld method of ignoring people (sticking my fingers in my ears and chanting "ah la la la la la la" until they stop) doesn't work here, but it's still a good strategy. come to think of it though, it's not very effective at my session either
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by airport
Re: Why do you bother?
See? This is why I bother.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by fidkid
Re: Why do you bother?
This reminds me of an essay I wrote this morning.
"..the positive dimensions of suffering can include a unity and shared eschatalogical hope between sufferers..."
YEY 4 THESESSION! LULZ!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Why do you bother?
Well, airport, if you did it in time, you might be able to drown out the bodhran player in the corner. But I would suggest sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "hum dee diddle dum diddly dee" instead. (Although, it might be hard to play fiddle while you're doing that...)
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Why do you bother?
LOL, mehitabel, you're so right! As often as not, it's the morbid humor here that brings me back.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Why do you bother?
This is kind of like 'why is there air?' You're not really looking for an answer, you just want to poke around in theory and humpf.
Since everybody who visits this board has a different reason for being here, a question like 'why do you bother?' of necessity has as many answers as people involved. Since I've only posted twice in the year or so I've been lurking, the question has an entirely different feel to me than it does to someone who posts innumerable times in the space of an hour.
So I bother because I'm working a night shift and have two hours to kill before I can go home...or I log on 10 minutes before I got to bed just to see what the topics are and which ones are getting the most feedback, I bother because someone we play with has gone off on someone else over an issue that i didn't realize was a hot-button topic (say, playing ITM from printed music) until i read other posters here go ballistic on the same subject. Or I bother because you're all interesting people with opinions and I find humanity interesting.
Usually someone who asks a question like this either has an answer he wants to hear (to convince him he's right or wrong, usually) or just likes to pontificate. So, Johnny, did you find what you were looking for?
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Mandogal
Re: Why do you bother?
ah Reverend, I see we share the hope of being saved from the bodhran player. That's some seriously traditional eschatology (I was somewhat disappointed to learn that word has nothing to do with animal droppings)
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by airport
Re: Why do you bother?
Oh, don't get me wrong... I don't mind bodhran players, in general, but being a banjo player, I like it when the fun is poked in another direction from time to time
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Why do you bother?
"Bodhráns elicit hope in survival after earthly existence, which can be proved by the fact that the majority of the canon of apocalyptic literature was written during times of great suffering....."
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Why do you bother?
Is this an essay on the hermeneutics of bodhrans? sweet!
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by airport
What Bother?
I found this site soon after I discovered the music. Everyone here is a valued friend and as much a part of my musical journey as my whistles.
I know that my attitudes and perspectives have been changed and shaped during my participation here. I believe my first post was defending noodling!!!
I also have a good friend who now comes to our sessions that I met here first (you, joe).
I almost never pile on the trolls in meatspace, but I completely enjoy my occassional poking at them here. Feels good....like I am doing my part.
I recommend this site all the time.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by feardearg
Re: Why do you bother?
I love the way jig found a little fellow feeling with johnny boy. Perhaps not so surprising really.
# Posted on May 14th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Why do you bother?
Johny, its not all get you know. its give too. But I wonder myself too, why do I bother. It sometimes seems like a mutual appreciation society where your only allowed to speak if you agree with the gestalt. Strange people inhabit these boards...But then We all have many facets to our personalities. . some people are really two faced. Ahh what a weird race of beings altogether mankind... There is a school of thought that says we are doomed to self destruction due to the way our brains are built. the different layers. the reptilian brain and all that. And looking at the world around us they could be right. So why bother with anything? why bother with life even? why bother getting out of bed? learning to play an instrument? attempting to communicate with self important egotists? Why bother indeed?
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Why do you bother?
>>Strange people inhabit these boards.
hmmm.....yesss, quite so...
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Why do you bother?
Most people frequent this site to attack bodhran players, in a vain attempt to hide their own deficiencies.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Why do you bother?
Don't worry bliss, I actually love bodhráns. I was just responding to airport.
The essay was about religious responses to evil and suffering, ie. the mustard board's response to trolls and eejits...
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Why do you bother?
blessed are the easy marks, bliss, for they will inherit the earth...
I hereby recind my one and only slanderous bodhran remark - didn't mean it - only wish we had a bodhran player of our own (to slag). ooh, I didn't mean that either.
# Posted on May 15th 2008 by airport
Re: Why do you bother?
I enjoy being able to discuss music which I both enjoy playing and listening to with other people who like this music as much as I do. This is Why I Bother--even though there are people on this web site who disapprove of the fact that I play an electronic keyboard instead of an acoustic instrument.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Why do you bother?
The only reason I bother is because I dont live in Ireland - its hard to get a tune, its nice to be able to talk to other like minded people - although I agree - it is outrageous to slag off other musicians....it seems to be a running theme. Its also interesting that alot of people on this site seem to tell everyone else what they should be doing etc when they have no clue about tunes at all. Part of the reason I go on this site is for entertainment value.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by bb
Re: Why do you bother?
Dow has a good point too - re the session etiqutte.
And also - I have met heaps of people through this site - gone overseas - stayed with them etc. So thats a nice point to the site.
Johnny - I'd be interested to know if you know tune players all over the world....And I dont mean the ones who come over for summer in Ireland.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by bb
Re: Why do you bother?
"bb", I like the two comments which you just posted.
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Why do you bother?
I get a lot of learning here from experienced players, links to
great sites that I would not know of otherwise, and, I admit, a lot of laughs, a LOT of good laughs. (I know....get a life !!!)
# Posted on May 24th 2008 by hauke