The Continentals did nick stuff from Scottish music, that's a fact! Hence the Schottische, etc.
That first French track of Tirno's was marvellous. I'm not so keen on the Tudor Banquet sound of the second one - prefer boxes to gurdies, when it comes down to it. If I was a traditionalist, my preferences would have to be the other way round, so evidently I'm not one.
Ah, now, nicholas, it isn't proven that Schottisches originated in Scotland - in fact it is not known where they came from, possibly Central Europe, Bohemia some people think.
I thought the gen was that the "Scotch Snap" *was* actually an element picked up from Scottish music - or some idea of what Scottish music was like, anyway - and then put to use in Schottisches etc. which indeed were composed by Continentals and may have had no origin as such in Scotland at all, coming into Britain and Ireland later, purely on the rebound as it were.
I read somewhere that Scottish tunes became fashionable in England and presumably London round the time of the Union, inspiring lots of attempts to compose in their style. This spell of trendiness may have brought them to the notice of foreigners. A bigger factor in this might have been the "Ossian" fabrications of the c18 which impressed Scotland on the minds of many literary / artistic / musical people abroad.
I thought Schottiches were popular in the 19th cent. But then again, Qn Victoria had a thing about Scotland (and a Scotsman), so what you say is probably right.
Anyway, what about these pipes (zampogna) from Italy (with sound sample) http://www.hotpipes.com/sound4.html
Nicholas, this term you used is not part of my linguistic repertoire. Or were you talking about the Hartlepool Monkey?
I read somewhere that Schottisch was derived from a word describing the way you hopped and jumped about doing this dance. Something like 'schotsen' in Low German.
The Chambers Dictionary gives its origin as "German: (der) Schottische (tanz), (the) Scottish (dance)", which is what I had always assumed. That in itself suggests that its true Scottish origins are doubtful. Perhaps it was based on some vague notion of how people danced in Scotland - which was presumably exotic to Central Europeans.
The Chambers is, of course, a Scottish dictionary, so it might well favour the above derivation. The other hypothesis is interesting. I just had a look in a couple of online Plattdeutsch dictionaries but wasn't able to find any similar words - although it could well be an obsolete word.
kuec - I first came across that word in The Times, as some intrepid correspondent reported a slanging-match between English and German fans in some public place during the last World Cup. I laughed out loud, and thought it perfectly appropriate!
The Monkey of Hartlepool - which one do you mean? The story is that a French warship sank off Hartlepool in the Napoleonic wars, and the only survivor to come ashore was a monkey. The folk of Hartlepool hanged it as a spy, or something. (I should add, the North-East has a lot of folk-tales of this kind that have a dubious or non-existent relationship with the truth..)
- So, they get called the "Monkey-Hangers".
In the here and now, the Mayor of Hartlepool ran for election as "H'Angus The Monkey" in a monkey-suit, and has been in charge for some time. (He is or was the Hartlepool football team's mascot.) I have not heard that the place is in crisis, he seems to be doing his job reasonably well.
Other European Sessions
Other European Sessions
In case you thought Ireland wasthe lone folk music icon of Europe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb9TgIkqjxw&feature=related
Try to ignore the smoking hot Transylvanian women ( i dare you ).
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Farr
Re: Other European Sessions
anyone remember this?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmjgvsta39M&feature=related
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Other European Sessions
farr - That's presumably Hungarian stuff: bizarre but definitely intriguing!
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Other European Sessions
A bit nearer to home.
France this year.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bWU_IVqny38
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Tirno
Re: Other European Sessions
Oh and another one while I'm at it:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bk5mmP07nSU
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Tirno
Re: Other European Sessions
The lone folk Music icon of Europe? All European countries have their own folk music. And people who play and enjoy the music of their own culture.
Please tell me you didn't
a) think no-one else had traditional music
or
b) only 'ITM' is any good.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by c.g.
Re: Other European Sessions
They all nicked it from Ireland and twisted it beyond recognition.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Other European Sessions
...and Scotland. I thought the tune the Hungarian musicians were playing sounded like a very odd strathspey.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Other European Sessions
The Continentals did nick stuff from Scottish music, that's a fact! Hence the Schottische, etc.
That first French track of Tirno's was marvellous. I'm not so keen on the Tudor Banquet sound of the second one - prefer boxes to gurdies, when it comes down to it. If I was a traditionalist, my preferences would have to be the other way round, so evidently I'm not one.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Other European Sessions
Ah, now, nicholas, it isn't proven that Schottisches originated in Scotland - in fact it is not known where they came from, possibly Central Europe, Bohemia some people think.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Other European Sessions
I thought the gen was that the "Scotch Snap" *was* actually an element picked up from Scottish music - or some idea of what Scottish music was like, anyway - and then put to use in Schottisches etc. which indeed were composed by Continentals and may have had no origin as such in Scotland at all, coming into Britain and Ireland later, purely on the rebound as it were.
I read somewhere that Scottish tunes became fashionable in England and presumably London round the time of the Union, inspiring lots of attempts to compose in their style. This spell of trendiness may have brought them to the notice of foreigners. A bigger factor in this might have been the "Ossian" fabrications of the c18 which impressed Scotland on the minds of many literary / artistic / musical people abroad.
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Other European Sessions
Mostly you island people nicked tunes from us continentals like the jig, the mazurka and the polka
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by kuec
Re: Other European Sessions
Inselaffen!!
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Other European Sessions
I thought Schottiches were popular in the 19th cent. But then again, Qn Victoria had a thing about Scotland (and a Scotsman), so what you say is probably right.
Anyway, what about these pipes (zampogna) from Italy (with sound sample)
http://www.hotpipes.com/sound4.html
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Other European Sessions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottische
# Posted on April 28th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Other European Sessions
Nicholas, this term you used is not part of my linguistic repertoire. Or were you talking about the Hartlepool Monkey?
I read somewhere that Schottisch was derived from a word describing the way you hopped and jumped about doing this dance. Something like 'schotsen' in Low German.
# Posted on April 29th 2008 by kuec
Re: Other European Sessions
The Chambers Dictionary gives its origin as "German: (der) Schottische (tanz), (the) Scottish (dance)", which is what I had always assumed. That in itself suggests that its true Scottish origins are doubtful. Perhaps it was based on some vague notion of how people danced in Scotland - which was presumably exotic to Central Europeans.
The Chambers is, of course, a Scottish dictionary, so it might well favour the above derivation. The other hypothesis is interesting. I just had a look in a couple of online Plattdeutsch dictionaries but wasn't able to find any similar words - although it could well be an obsolete word.
# Posted on April 29th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Other European Sessions
Yeahbut, who says we want to own up to having invented it?
Only joking, I like Schottiches actually. They have a nice steady driving rhythm.
# Posted on April 29th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Other European Sessions
kuec - I first came across that word in The Times, as some intrepid correspondent reported a slanging-match between English and German fans in some public place during the last World Cup. I laughed out loud, and thought it perfectly appropriate!
The Monkey of Hartlepool - which one do you mean? The story is that a French warship sank off Hartlepool in the Napoleonic wars, and the only survivor to come ashore was a monkey. The folk of Hartlepool hanged it as a spy, or something. (I should add, the North-East has a lot of folk-tales of this kind that have a dubious or non-existent relationship with the truth..)
- So, they get called the "Monkey-Hangers".
In the here and now, the Mayor of Hartlepool ran for election as "H'Angus The Monkey" in a monkey-suit, and has been in charge for some time. (He is or was the Hartlepool football team's mascot.) I have not heard that the place is in crisis, he seems to be doing his job reasonably well.
# Posted on May 1st 2008 by nicholas
Re: Other European Sessions
I meant the one Vin Garbutt sings about.
I read about the other one in connection with your local elections.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by kuec