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How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Been lurking for a while, but thought i'd take the plunge to pick your brains if you'd be so kind.
We've been given the task of reorganizing our tune list and I was wondering if there's any way to determine whether a piece could be considered easy for beginners and veterans as opposed to one that was hard (or, rather, more challenging).
Obviously, one you can already play is 'easy' or nearly so, and some tunes are easier for some instruments than others.
But what would determine, from the outside, something easy? One that has a very strong internal rhythm? Lots of simple runs as opposed to arpeggios? Two sharps instead of one? Straight notes instead of syncopation? A funny title? I can listen to the tunes and attempt to duplicate them, but how can I tell if it would be easy for a beginner or advanced player?
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
I'm a beginner. You can send the tune list to me and I'll try to play them. Then I'll rate them in order of difficulty from "Sounds kinda like the tune" as the easiest to "My cat attacked me and the neighbors are threatening me with a shotgun" as the most difficult.
Seriously, I think your last paragraph (regarding rhythm, arpeggios versus runs, etc.) is a good start. I can play faster and more cleanly when string crossing is minimized and the pattern is quickly recognizable.
Then again, and I find this to be true of both instruments I play, it is the harder tunes that actually drive my improvement. So don't worry if a few tough ones make it into the easy sets, it's good to stretch limits sometimes.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Mandogal, you've answered your own question. Some tunes fit better on one instrument over another, so an "easy" fiddle tune may prove to be a tricky tune on flute or whistle, and vice versa.
And ultimately, thinking in terms of "easy" and "difficult" is misleading and counterproductive. Anything unfamiliar will likely feel "difficult." And anything familiar will likely feel "easy." So one person's "easy" tune could well be another's nightmare.
From your examples, tunes with straight scale runs tend to fit better on flute, whistle, and fiddle, but tunes with arppegios can be really "easy" on mandolin and banjo. And a beginner with a keyless flute may find tunes with c sharps easier than tunes with c naturals, unless those c sharps are long (dotted quarter notes) and beg for being rolled.
In short, there's no simple set of criteria that works across all instruments. Plus, some people find jigs easy, but reels hard, and other people are the reverse.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
I find them all hard......
But Will is correct. My 2pworth is arpeggio tunes are easier on the DG box than straight runs, as there is a lot of pushing and pulling on straight run melodies. Remember also that some tunes just cannot really be played on some instruments, eg the DG box ( but some would argue that instrument is not in the Irish music tradition), and many fiddle tunes (Reavy-type tunes) are difficult on the flute.
On top of that, some tunes or style of tunes are better on certain instruments, but that may be subjective. Eg, Kerry polkas and slides sound great on the box, as they are punctuated by rhythm, while it's harder to get that feel on the flute for those tunes. But that may be a slightly different issue from what you asked about.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
It also depends how your musicians learn, if they find some runs or bits of tune easier to remember than others and stuff like that. For example, I have tunes that I know I can play, it's just remembering it that's the trouble!!
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Every tune is hard to play if you're really focusing and trying to
it good. Sometimes simple tunes are the most difficult,
for example Planxty Erwin or the Blarney Pilgrim. If you try to do
more than hack through them session-style, they'll keep you
busy for years.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
the first time you play it... ever... if you can detect a resemblance to the tune than it's probably easy. If it takes quite a while its probably harder.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
You have to work towards being able to play air-concerta or air_fiddle or whatever, then you can look at a tune, try the fingering and feel where the pitfalls lie.
Then when you are dot-reading, you can look ahead and see problem bars coming.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
no such thing as easy or hard. Its a matter of what you put into it and how interested you are in what you are playing.
Some players have attractions to certain music. So a piece of music some find hard, others can learn in a snap. I find "hard" being one of those negative talk sort of things. If I approach something with the mindset that it is hard, I will have trouble.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
One thing I find that makes a tune easier is when it has repetitive parts to it. A couple of measures at the end of part A and B that are the same. There's less to learn, it's easier to memorize and frankly, I really like tunes like that.
As a flute player, what I find hard are tunes that have octave jumps or that fiddle thing where there's what I've heard called a "rocking pedal". Dinky's Reel is an example.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Benhall, i'm a member of a community irish band that's been around for more than a decade (hey, Shamrogues!) and we've played the same sets and tunes since i joined five years ago. they're all classics and audiences like them, but they've become stale over time for the regulars. three of us volunteered to rethink our tune list, add pieces that have been given to us during other sessions, shuffle them up, add a few new tunes and create a new set of practice and performance works.
In re-organizing the list, we decided we'd create a set for our beginners --- we also teach people who've never picked up a penny whistle, fiddle or guitar before -- of pieces that would be easier to learn; and use the same list for warmups, if we ever get that organized (which is another discussion entirely).
Since I play the mandolin, pieces I find more fun to play usually involve cross-picking, but our flute and whistle players groan when I suggest them. Since I'm in the way minority, I figured I'd need some help in choosing which jigs (my assignment) would fit in our 'easy' category for beginners. The other two members are tackling reels and everything else.
Long explanation. hope it wasn't too much information!
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Brilliant explanation, Mandogal!
I also think it makes answering the question easier. Sounds like you need to think of which tunes which *you* find easy on mandolin are in fact hard on whistle and flute. Now, if it wasn't time for The Bill (about which more anon) I'd try and anser straight away.
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
... for instance ... and I speak as a beginner (on whistle, at any rate) ... a lot of tunes in G seem to ha ve been written for whistle/flute. London Lasses, Geehans, The Traveller etc are relatively easy reels which are also nice on whistle.
I've just learned The Piper's Chair, which is a great jig in G for whistle ...
And a lot of classic Dmix tunes - Tatter Jack Walsh, that sort of thing - are great on whistle too.
I second what sbhikes says about 'rocking pedals' too. Very hard to do. Except, strangely, in some tunes, like The Flowers of Red Hill, which is fine. I haven't been able to identify what sets these tunes apart ...
How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Been lurking for a while, but thought i'd take the plunge to pick your brains if you'd be so kind.
We've been given the task of reorganizing our tune list and I was wondering if there's any way to determine whether a piece could be considered easy for beginners and veterans as opposed to one that was hard (or, rather, more challenging).
Obviously, one you can already play is 'easy' or nearly so, and some tunes are easier for some instruments than others.
But what would determine, from the outside, something easy? One that has a very strong internal rhythm? Lots of simple runs as opposed to arpeggios? Two sharps instead of one? Straight notes instead of syncopation? A funny title? I can listen to the tunes and attempt to duplicate them, but how can I tell if it would be easy for a beginner or advanced player?
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Mandogal
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
I'm a beginner. You can send the tune list to me and I'll try to play them. Then I'll rate them in order of difficulty from "Sounds kinda like the tune" as the easiest to "My cat attacked me and the neighbors are threatening me with a shotgun" as the most difficult.
Seriously, I think your last paragraph (regarding rhythm, arpeggios versus runs, etc.) is a good start. I can play faster and more cleanly when string crossing is minimized and the pattern is quickly recognizable.
Then again, and I find this to be true of both instruments I play, it is the harder tunes that actually drive my improvement. So don't worry if a few tough ones make it into the easy sets, it's good to stretch limits sometimes.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Mandogal, you've answered your own question. Some tunes fit better on one instrument over another, so an "easy" fiddle tune may prove to be a tricky tune on flute or whistle, and vice versa.
And ultimately, thinking in terms of "easy" and "difficult" is misleading and counterproductive. Anything unfamiliar will likely feel "difficult." And anything familiar will likely feel "easy." So one person's "easy" tune could well be another's nightmare.
From your examples, tunes with straight scale runs tend to fit better on flute, whistle, and fiddle, but tunes with arppegios can be really "easy" on mandolin and banjo. And a beginner with a keyless flute may find tunes with c sharps easier than tunes with c naturals, unless those c sharps are long (dotted quarter notes) and beg for being rolled.
In short, there's no simple set of criteria that works across all instruments. Plus, some people find jigs easy, but reels hard, and other people are the reverse.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
I find them all hard......
But Will is correct. My 2pworth is arpeggio tunes are easier on the DG box than straight runs, as there is a lot of pushing and pulling on straight run melodies. Remember also that some tunes just cannot really be played on some instruments, eg the DG box ( but some would argue that instrument is not in the Irish music tradition), and many fiddle tunes (Reavy-type tunes) are difficult on the flute.
On top of that, some tunes or style of tunes are better on certain instruments, but that may be subjective. Eg, Kerry polkas and slides sound great on the box, as they are punctuated by rhythm, while it's harder to get that feel on the flute for those tunes. But that may be a slightly different issue from what you asked about.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
It also depends how your musicians learn, if they find some runs or bits of tune easier to remember than others and stuff like that. For example, I have tunes that I know I can play, it's just remembering it that's the trouble!!
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by An Kammneves
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Every tune is hard to play if you're really focusing and trying to
it good. Sometimes simple tunes are the most difficult,
for example Planxty Erwin or the Blarney Pilgrim. If you try to do
more than hack through them session-style, they'll keep you
busy for years.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Hup
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
to _get_ it good -
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Hup
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
This is just me being curious ...
"Our tune list" ???
Who's 'us'? A learner's session somewhere? A band/group? What's the tune list for?
If we knew these things, it might help us to put more flesh on the bones to give you the answer you're looking for.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
the first time you play it... ever... if you can detect a resemblance to the tune than it's probably easy. If it takes quite a while its probably harder.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by camwebby
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
You have to work towards being able to play air-concerta or air_fiddle or whatever, then you can look at a tune, try the fingering and feel where the pitfalls lie.
Then when you are dot-reading, you can look ahead and see problem bars coming.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by geoffwright
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
What's an "air-concerta"?
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
no such thing as easy or hard. Its a matter of what you put into it and how interested you are in what you are playing.
Some players have attractions to certain music. So a piece of music some find hard, others can learn in a snap. I find "hard" being one of those negative talk sort of things. If I approach something with the mindset that it is hard, I will have trouble.
Practice, Practice Practice.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by zippydw
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
One thing I find that makes a tune easier is when it has repetitive parts to it. A couple of measures at the end of part A and B that are the same. There's less to learn, it's easier to memorize and frankly, I really like tunes like that.
As a flute player, what I find hard are tunes that have octave jumps or that fiddle thing where there's what I've heard called a "rocking pedal". Dinky's Reel is an example.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by sbhikes
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Benhall, i'm a member of a community irish band that's been around for more than a decade (hey, Shamrogues!) and we've played the same sets and tunes since i joined five years ago. they're all classics and audiences like them, but they've become stale over time for the regulars. three of us volunteered to rethink our tune list, add pieces that have been given to us during other sessions, shuffle them up, add a few new tunes and create a new set of practice and performance works.
In re-organizing the list, we decided we'd create a set for our beginners --- we also teach people who've never picked up a penny whistle, fiddle or guitar before -- of pieces that would be easier to learn; and use the same list for warmups, if we ever get that organized (which is another discussion entirely).
Since I play the mandolin, pieces I find more fun to play usually involve cross-picking, but our flute and whistle players groan when I suggest them. Since I'm in the way minority, I figured I'd need some help in choosing which jigs (my assignment) would fit in our 'easy' category for beginners. The other two members are tackling reels and everything else.
Long explanation. hope it wasn't too much information!
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by Mandogal
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
Brilliant explanation, Mandogal!
I also think it makes answering the question easier. Sounds like you need to think of which tunes which *you* find easy on mandolin are in fact hard on whistle and flute. Now, if it wasn't time for The Bill (about which more anon) I'd try and anser straight away.
I will tray and answer though ...
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: How can you determine whether a piece is 'easy' or 'hard'?
... for instance ... and I speak as a beginner (on whistle, at any rate) ... a lot of tunes in G seem to ha ve been written for whistle/flute. London Lasses, Geehans, The Traveller etc are relatively easy reels which are also nice on whistle.
I've just learned The Piper's Chair, which is a great jig in G for whistle ...
And a lot of classic Dmix tunes - Tatter Jack Walsh, that sort of thing - are great on whistle too.
I second what sbhikes says about 'rocking pedals' too. Very hard to do. Except, strangely, in some tunes, like The Flowers of Red Hill, which is fine. I haven't been able to identify what sets these tunes apart ...
Of course, everything's easy on fiddle
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by ethical blend