Pipe bands are just going to have to play in nightclubs, then, where there the restrictions on their volume don't seem to apply. Has this been done? It sounds a terrific concept, certainly if the band were to consist of live-wire musicians.
But no, I don't like this bid to de-claw the Highland Bagpipe.
This has serious implications for classical music too. What about Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture which requires the firing of cannons as part of the performance!
Lurcherjohn, I'm afraid the Telegraph story is just spin to sell papers. The same story came out in the guardian. It is already well known in piping circles that the 3 drones variant we have today is a development of older Scottish pipes. Their predecessor being a pretty much identical instrument with two drones which had been in Scotland for century's. If the pipes are not traditional then no instrument is traditional.
""The most gratuitous use of which word?" asked Arthur, with a determined attempt to keep his brain in neutral.
"Belgium," said the girl, "I hardly like to say it."
"Belgium?" exclaimed Arthur.
A drunken seven-toed sloth staggered past, gawked at the word and threw itself backward at a blurry-eyed pterodactyl, roaring with displeasure.
"Are we talking," said Arthur, "about the very flat country, with all the EEC and the fog?"
"What?" said the girl.
"Belgium," said Arthur.
"Raaaaaarrrchchchchch!" screeched the pterodactyl.
"Grrruuuuuurrrghhhh," agreed the seven-toed sloth."
Talking of bans, I noticed the other day that the UN Secretary General these days is called Ban Ki-moon. It occurred to me that he had better be on his best behaviour while in office, because if he transgressed in some way (e.g., actually did anything about Mugabe, Darfur, Tibet, etc., etc.,), there may be calls to "ban Ban". As a slogan it has a certain ring about it, but if the sloganeers decided to use his surname only then the cry would become "Ban Ki-moon" - which, of course, is simply his name.
"This has serious implications for classical music too. What about Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture which requires the firing of cannons as part of the performance!"
That's too bad, I love the cannons! The only thing that could be better is if they were aimed at the conductor.
I Was Told , the boys in Edwards army {English} Tried to Ban from Scotland = Bag pipes / Wearing of the tartan / Their old
Gallic Language- But his only made them Worse ,,
Being Scots,,
Maybe if they had left things Alone - Just think
There might be none of these things around To-day..
ie// NOT FASHIONABLE,,,
JIM,,
I wonder how many hours the writer of the Telegraph piece has spent acquainting himself with the music of the Leicestershire small-pipes: that many more than me, I'll say.
I tried looking up references of the time to the GHB's use in war before 1800 - i.e., an indication that they were a loud, powerful instrument - but really only found hearsay, e.g. the martial use of the Piob Mor was certainly believed in by Francis O'Neill, and someone - details unknown - is quoted as saying in the Wiki entry on the Battle of Prestonpans that the Highlanders charged with pipes skirling. However, the song "Johnny Cope" was written very soon after and contains the lines, "Fye now Johnny, get up an' rin / The Highland bagpipes mak a din...", which I take it are original and not additions, as the song was the work of one man who lived in the area of the battle. (I gather the song is not quite fair to John Cope.)
If the "Waterloo" pipes are made of parts of different instruments and bodged up with modern wood, they sound like the epitome of a traditional instrument to me...
Guardian
A German orchestra has dropped a composition from its programme after its members claimed the music was so loud that it gave them ear problems and headaches.
The Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (BR) said it had little choice but to drop the world premiere of Swedish-Israeli composer Dror Feiler's Halat Hisar (State of Siege), from a concert because it was "adverse to the health" of its musicians.
Members of the 100-strong orchestra said they could only contemplate playing the piece wearing headphones, after several suffered buzzing in the ears for hours after rehearsals. The 20-minute composition starts with the rattle of machine-gun fire and gets louder.
"I had to protect the orchestra," its manager, Trygve Nordwall, said. "I can't just say we'll play it anyway, for it to then cause health problems. The piece starts with machine-gun shots ... and that's the quietest part of it."
Nordwall was guided by new EU rules that forbid more than 85 decibels in the workplace. He said readings were taken during rehearsals and even when toned down, Halat Hisar measured about 130 decibels, equivalent to hearing a jet aircraft taking off.
Feiler, 56, said that his work was "no louder than anything by Shostakovich or Wagner". He told the Munich Abendzeitung that he was willing to compromise but "there was no will there".
Nordwall said the musicians had considered wearing headphones but would not have been able to hear each other. The composer also rejected the idea, he said.
Ridiculous. Certain music actually NEEDS to be loud in order for it to have the proper psychoacoustic affects on our ears. It's the same for decent guitar amplifiers - you can't make a 10-watt practice amp sound like a 100-watt Marshall stack. And the big amps need to be turned up to normal stage volume if you want to achieve the same kind of tones on those classic rock albums.
There are many loud occupations for which wearing ear protection is sensible. You don't actually want to hear those noises - machine gun fire for one. But music is intended to be heard unattenuated!
Maybe the great pipe players, British rock bands, and classical orchestras will begin emigrating to America... ;)
Thomas Pennant, in his travels through Scotland in 1772, discusses the use of the bagpipes as an instrument of war. He describes the pipes with a good amount of detail, including mentioning that many of the landowners whose hospitality he was enjoying had their own in-house piper. I don't have that book on me at the moment but when I get back home I will find the passage in question.
In one edition of the X-files, Mulder was trying to get rid of Scully, who had taken to wearing a ridiculous spotted rag round her head. Poor old Fox was reduced to parading around with hand-written placards which proclaimed "Ban Dana".
Then, of course, there was the international furore (no other word for it, really, except, possibly, kerfuffle) about the new invented confection (it was a sort of pie) which had appeared almost overnight on the dessert menus of the planet. These miserable affairs purported to come, of course, from Ireland courtesy of the ancient O'Fee family of Ballyfitznewtowncastle. It wasn't long before restaurants everywhere were besieged by crowds demanding that the authorities should "Ban O'Fee Pie".
Aye, and then there was the pudding which some loved but others hated; the latter starting a movement to get said pudding banned, under the slogan "Shtick it awfa pudding".........
Ah yes Max, over the years, there have been several notable campaigns for the banning of commercial products. One of the most controversial was that launched by soul singer Freda Payne, who fell victim to a massive fraud.
In the 1970's there were reports of pigeons which laid golden eggs, which was of course a hoax and there was as much gold in them as there is in those terrors of the modern age the shakey eggs. However that did not deter Stinkey O'Rifice from claiming to have extracted gold from these eggs then going on to market said gold in the form of exotic jewellery. He called this type of gold "Dove Gold"
Once the fraud was cracked then exposed as a bad yolk it took the US Congress an awful long time to hatch regulatory legislation on the product. In the interim Ms Payne released her hit single, "Ban Dove Gold", lobbying for a moratorium on the product: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tpVZUzElE
Then there was the the fair maid who was famed for her long beautiful legs - this upset lesser maids who were jealous of this, and who were afflicted by the dreadful disease of malnutrition - Rickets. A campaign was started against her showing her legs in public by a woman called "Ban De Legs"....
Tyrone's Army
Hugh O'Neil, Earl of Tyrone, created the first really effective Irish army of the period, using as a nucleus Irish infantry he had kindly offered to train for Queen Elizabeth, and senior officers who had served in the English or Spanish armies. He raised 6,000 disciplined Irish foot, organized in companies of 100 and regiments probably 500 strong, with drums, bagpipes and colors, and armed with matchlock muskets and pikes (the musket bullets were made out of lead imported from England, ostensibly to re-roof O'Neil's castle of Dungannon). There were at least two musketeers to every pikeman, probably more.
Which reminds me of the truly sad tale of Michael Konnit, who in the 16th century was falsely accused in the West Country of Being Unreliable, which of course in those days was a capital offence, or at least would sully one's reputation to an irretrievable degree. In order to try and rectify the situation and restore confidence in himself, Michael would ask publicans, hoteliers, etc., to deliberately refuse him entry, upon which he would, very reliably, remain outside and obediently not enter the premises. This led to the entry into the English language of a saying which we still use today to denote reliability: "You Can Ban Konnit".
As well as in the disco, you will be allowed to drive around, tyres screeching, with all the windows open, and play the pipes to your hearts content - preferably with thumping drums. That also seems to be legal.
EU to ban pipes shock!
EU to ban pipes shock!
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article3779828.ece
According to the Times of London ( so it must be true ) the EU is going to ban the pipes
Will Peace come to the Borders at last ?
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Pipe bands are just going to have to play in nightclubs, then, where there the restrictions on their volume don't seem to apply. Has this been done? It sounds a terrific concept, certainly if the band were to consist of live-wire musicians.
But no, I don't like this bid to de-claw the Highland Bagpipe.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by nicholas
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Shame the EU doesn't ban excessive bureaucracy. Perhaps they should limit exposure to silly laws to 15 minutes a day.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Not traditional instrument anyway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/19/nbagpipe119.xml
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Lurcherjohn
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Lets not start talking about where the union pipes come from either because everyone knows its the northeast of England
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Have the EU nothing better to do with their time?
Feck sake...
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by 52Paddy
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
This has serious implications for classical music too. What about Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture which requires the firing of cannons as part of the performance!
http://www.geocities.com/viennaonline/bgsound/bgsound1199.html
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by cathycook
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Does that mean that all the GHB players will migrate across the Western Ocean ?
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Lurcherjohn, I'm afraid the Telegraph story is just spin to sell papers. The same story came out in the guardian. It is already well known in piping circles that the 3 drones variant we have today is a development of older Scottish pipes. Their predecessor being a pretty much identical instrument with two drones which had been in Scotland for century's. If the pipes are not traditional then no instrument is traditional.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by bogman
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
PIPEBAND: 122 decibels
CHAINSAW: 116 decibels.
EARPLUGS: Priceless
""The most gratuitous use of which word?" asked Arthur, with a determined attempt to keep his brain in neutral.
"Belgium," said the girl, "I hardly like to say it."
"Belgium?" exclaimed Arthur.
A drunken seven-toed sloth staggered past, gawked at the word and threw itself backward at a blurry-eyed pterodactyl, roaring with displeasure.
"Are we talking," said Arthur, "about the very flat country, with all the EEC and the fog?"
"What?" said the girl.
"Belgium," said Arthur.
"Raaaaaarrrchchchchch!" screeched the pterodactyl.
"Grrruuuuuurrrghhhh," agreed the seven-toed sloth."
Thanks a lot, Brussels.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Piece
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Talking of bans, I noticed the other day that the UN Secretary General these days is called Ban Ki-moon. It occurred to me that he had better be on his best behaviour while in office, because if he transgressed in some way (e.g., actually did anything about Mugabe, Darfur, Tibet, etc., etc.,), there may be calls to "ban Ban". As a slogan it has a certain ring about it, but if the sloganeers decided to use his surname only then the cry would become "Ban Ki-moon" - which, of course, is simply his name.
Tricky one, isn't it?
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by cyber-bullying is a criminal offence
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/arts/music/20noise.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by mcdevincabe
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
"This has serious implications for classical music too. What about Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture which requires the firing of cannons as part of the performance!"
That's too bad, I love the cannons! The only thing that could be better is if they were aimed at the conductor.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Marklar
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Though to be honest, I've only ever seen it performed with cymbals rather than cannons.
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by Marklar
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
What about war? Maybe they should ban war? ... on health and safety gounds?
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
I Was Told , the boys in Edwards army {English} Tried to Ban from Scotland = Bag pipes / Wearing of the tartan / Their old
Gallic Language- But his only made them Worse ,,
Being Scots,,
Maybe if they had left things Alone - Just think
There might be none of these things around To-day..
ie// NOT FASHIONABLE,,,
JIM,,
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
I wonder how many hours the writer of the Telegraph piece has spent acquainting himself with the music of the Leicestershire small-pipes: that many more than me, I'll say.
I tried looking up references of the time to the GHB's use in war before 1800 - i.e., an indication that they were a loud, powerful instrument - but really only found hearsay, e.g. the martial use of the Piob Mor was certainly believed in by Francis O'Neill, and someone - details unknown - is quoted as saying in the Wiki entry on the Battle of Prestonpans that the Highlanders charged with pipes skirling. However, the song "Johnny Cope" was written very soon after and contains the lines, "Fye now Johnny, get up an' rin / The Highland bagpipes mak a din...", which I take it are original and not additions, as the song was the work of one man who lived in the area of the battle. (I gather the song is not quite fair to John Cope.)
If the "Waterloo" pipes are made of parts of different instruments and bodged up with modern wood, they sound like the epitome of a traditional instrument to me...
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by nicholas
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
' I love the cannons! The only thing that could be better is if they were aimed at the conductor. '
LOL,Screetch
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: and furthermore...
'
New work too loud for orchestra
Kate Connolly in Berlin
Wednesday April 9, 2008
Guardian
A German orchestra has dropped a composition from its programme after its members claimed the music was so loud that it gave them ear problems and headaches.
The Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (BR) said it had little choice but to drop the world premiere of Swedish-Israeli composer Dror Feiler's Halat Hisar (State of Siege), from a concert because it was "adverse to the health" of its musicians.
Members of the 100-strong orchestra said they could only contemplate playing the piece wearing headphones, after several suffered buzzing in the ears for hours after rehearsals. The 20-minute composition starts with the rattle of machine-gun fire and gets louder.
"I had to protect the orchestra," its manager, Trygve Nordwall, said. "I can't just say we'll play it anyway, for it to then cause health problems. The piece starts with machine-gun shots ... and that's the quietest part of it."
Nordwall was guided by new EU rules that forbid more than 85 decibels in the workplace. He said readings were taken during rehearsals and even when toned down, Halat Hisar measured about 130 decibels, equivalent to hearing a jet aircraft taking off.
Feiler, 56, said that his work was "no louder than anything by Shostakovich or Wagner". He told the Munich Abendzeitung that he was willing to compromise but "there was no will there".
Nordwall said the musicians had considered wearing headphones but would not have been able to hear each other. The composer also rejected the idea, he said.
Critics have weighed in, saying that if taken literally, the rules would effectively mean a ban on louder pieces by composers including Strauss and Wagner.
guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2008'
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
One does wonder about the volume of certain Bodhrans ?t
# Posted on April 20th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Ridiculous. Certain music actually NEEDS to be loud in order for it to have the proper psychoacoustic affects on our ears. It's the same for decent guitar amplifiers - you can't make a 10-watt practice amp sound like a 100-watt Marshall stack. And the big amps need to be turned up to normal stage volume if you want to achieve the same kind of tones on those classic rock albums.
There are many loud occupations for which wearing ear protection is sensible. You don't actually want to hear those noises - machine gun fire for one. But music is intended to be heard unattenuated!
Maybe the great pipe players, British rock bands, and classical orchestras will begin emigrating to America... ;)
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Scott Esch
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Thomas Pennant, in his travels through Scotland in 1772, discusses the use of the bagpipes as an instrument of war. He describes the pipes with a good amount of detail, including mentioning that many of the landowners whose hospitality he was enjoying had their own in-house piper. I don't have that book on me at the moment but when I get back home I will find the passage in question.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
I've played 1812 with an orchestra that used a canon. it was at a performance at a military base. It was pretty cool.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by wyogal
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
I just hate Tree-Bay, don't you?
I suggest, therefore, they Ban Tree-Bay.
Not to mention Mr and Mrs Ish-Misfortune, or the famous Russo-Irish subversive writer of the 1970s, Kzov-Ireland.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by cyber-bullying is a criminal offence
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Thatcher tried to impose restrictions on the movements of Irish people in the UK. The Banshee imposed didn't work, though.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
In one edition of the X-files, Mulder was trying to get rid of Scully, who had taken to wearing a ridiculous spotted rag round her head. Poor old Fox was reduced to parading around with hand-written placards which proclaimed "Ban Dana".
Then, of course, there was the international furore (no other word for it, really, except, possibly, kerfuffle) about the new invented confection (it was a sort of pie) which had appeared almost overnight on the dessert menus of the planet. These miserable affairs purported to come, of course, from Ireland courtesy of the ancient O'Fee family of Ballyfitznewtowncastle. It wasn't long before restaurants everywhere were besieged by crowds demanding that the authorities should "Ban O'Fee Pie".
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by cyber-bullying is a criminal offence
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Aye, and then there was the pudding which some loved but others hated; the latter starting a movement to get said pudding banned, under the slogan "Shtick it awfa pudding".........
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Ron P
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Ah yes Max, over the years, there have been several notable campaigns for the banning of commercial products. One of the most controversial was that launched by soul singer Freda Payne, who fell victim to a massive fraud.
In the 1970's there were reports of pigeons which laid golden eggs, which was of course a hoax and there was as much gold in them as there is in those terrors of the modern age the shakey eggs. However that did not deter Stinkey O'Rifice from claiming to have extracted gold from these eggs then going on to market said gold in the form of exotic jewellery. He called this type of gold "Dove Gold"
Once the fraud was cracked then exposed as a bad yolk it took the US Congress an awful long time to hatch regulatory legislation on the product. In the interim Ms Payne released her hit single, "Ban Dove Gold", lobbying for a moratorium on the product:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tpVZUzElE
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Then there was the the fair maid who was famed for her long beautiful legs - this upset lesser maids who were jealous of this, and who were afflicted by the dreadful disease of malnutrition - Rickets. A campaign was started against her showing her legs in public by a woman called "Ban De Legs"....
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Ron P
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
The Telegraph etc journos need to get to know how to use google:
Derrick’s Image of Ireland 1576 probably says it all:
http://www.prydein.com/pipes/flood/index.html
and even earlier stuff:
http://members.tripod.com/Hiestand/phantompiper/WARPIPES.HTM
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_irish.html
Tyrone's Army
Hugh O'Neil, Earl of Tyrone, created the first really effective Irish army of the period, using as a nucleus Irish infantry he had kindly offered to train for Queen Elizabeth, and senior officers who had served in the English or Spanish armies. He raised 6,000 disciplined Irish foot, organized in companies of 100 and regiments probably 500 strong, with drums, bagpipes and colors, and armed with matchlock muskets and pikes (the musket bullets were made out of lead imported from England, ostensibly to re-roof O'Neil's castle of Dungannon). There were at least two musketeers to every pikeman, probably more.
# Posted on April 21st 2008 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
Which reminds me of the truly sad tale of Michael Konnit, who in the 16th century was falsely accused in the West Country of Being Unreliable, which of course in those days was a capital offence, or at least would sully one's reputation to an irretrievable degree. In order to try and rectify the situation and restore confidence in himself, Michael would ask publicans, hoteliers, etc., to deliberately refuse him entry, upon which he would, very reliably, remain outside and obediently not enter the premises. This led to the entry into the English language of a saying which we still use today to denote reliability: "You Can Ban Konnit".
# Posted on April 22nd 2008 by cyber-bullying is a criminal offence
Re: EU to ban pipes shock!
As well as in the disco, you will be allowed to drive around, tyres screeching, with all the windows open, and play the pipes to your hearts content - preferably with thumping drums. That also seems to be legal.
# Posted on April 23rd 2008 by geoffwright