I would like to know the origin of the barn dances. I thought naively, that they were called that way because they were danced in barns. A friend told me, that she read somewhere that, they have german origin (bauern dance, peasants dance), that's why they are also called germans. So you learned sessioneers, could you confirm this?
In England, a 'barn dance' is generally understood to mean a dance gathering - much like the Irish 'Ceilí' or Scots 'Ceilidh' (although there are tunes in the English tradition known by this name as well). I was led to believe that they are so called because they took place in barns - not improbable, since in most rural communities, a barn would probably have been the largest covered space available to ordinary people.
Perhaps that is a naive assumption. I've never heard the 'Bauerntanz' theory. It sounds equally plausible. Perhaps the word became corrupted to 'Barndance' because people were already in the habit of dancing in barns. Certainly, there is no reason why those tunes known as barndances should be any more suitable for dancing to in barns than any other kind of dance tune. Whether 'barn dances' or 'peasant dances', something tells me that these tunes are the result of romanticisation, by the Gentr, of such notions.
A similar argument arises over the relationship between "contra dance" and "country dance". I've heard arguments for either being the original. Trouble is, the documentary evidence is so scanty that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so it's difficult to determine which came first.
"contra" and "country" have nothing to do with each other -- it has to do with "contra" as in a different language (I think French or Italian, originally) - Brad defined it at http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/455
In Sweden we've got a common kind of dance tune called 'schottis' (swedish spelling for schottische) that sounds and feels exactly like the Irish Barndance. And the interesting thing is that there is another name for this kind of music and that is 'Rheinländer', meaning something from the land around the river Rhine = Germany. And recently I found a third name for this kind of music: In southern Sweden it was once called 'Tyskpolka' meaning 'German polka'. So there is obviously a connection with this music and Germany. So I think that the "Bauerntanz-theory" has some probability.
I read a bit about traditional music and dance in various countries years ago when I was a student. From what I can remember this Bauern dance theory seems somewhat unlikely. When the German upper classes developed some interest in music and dance of the lower classes in the 19th century they called it Volkstanz and Volksmusik, Volk being the ordinary people, farmers, labourers and all. I never found the term Bauerntanz (farmers' dance) mentioned. I may be wrong; ask your friend for her source.
Interesting though that these dances are called germans (where?when?)
greetings from Germany,
i've also done some research about the barndances while posting this thread: According to a site about Donegal fiddling, the german origin of the Donegal highlands and barndances seems certain. The barndances are called germans in Donegal (from german schottische)
I think two things are getting mixed up here. Types of dance like polkas, mazurkas, schottische and rheinländer moving from one country to another and the term barn dance. All four dances mentioned are different and were popular in Germany or possibly the whole of central Europe some time over 100 years ago. Over here Rheinland stands for the western part of Germany and Rheinländer for a particular dance. You'd have to dig into fashionable dances before the age of swing or rock'n roll.-
After the harvest was brought in there would certainly have been feasts and dances. But not in the barn because it would be full up. To me 'barn dance' is more likely the idea of townspeople of what rural pleasures were.
Perhaps the building of a new barn would have been an important event in the life of the village and there would have naturally been dancing and general jollity to celebrate. Just a thought.
Trevor
I agree that there are two issues -- "barn dance" as a generic type of music and dance, and "barn dance" as an event. As a dance type, "barn dance" is an alternate term for what would be called a "schottish" in France or other parts of Europe. As an event, yes people really do dance in barns, we still do here in the Canadian prairies and, I'm sure, in other places. I've been to a few barn dances -- the dancing is done on the second level of the barn where there is often a good sized plank floor to dance on. You wouldn't want to do anything too fancy or refined in the setting but a barn dance works fine in a barn (imagine that!) as do other old time dances or international folk dances.
Bauern Dance
Bauern Dance
I would like to know the origin of the barn dances. I thought naively, that they were called that way because they were danced in barns. A friend told me, that she read somewhere that, they have german origin (bauern dance, peasants dance), that's why they are also called germans. So you learned sessioneers, could you confirm this?
# Posted on May 29th 2003 by paul95
Re: Bauern Dance
In England, a 'barn dance' is generally understood to mean a dance gathering - much like the Irish 'Ceilí' or Scots 'Ceilidh' (although there are tunes in the English tradition known by this name as well). I was led to believe that they are so called because they took place in barns - not improbable, since in most rural communities, a barn would probably have been the largest covered space available to ordinary people.
Perhaps that is a naive assumption. I've never heard the 'Bauerntanz' theory. It sounds equally plausible. Perhaps the word became corrupted to 'Barndance' because people were already in the habit of dancing in barns. Certainly, there is no reason why those tunes known as barndances should be any more suitable for dancing to in barns than any other kind of dance tune. Whether 'barn dances' or 'peasant dances', something tells me that these tunes are the result of romanticisation, by the Gentr, of such notions.
# Posted on May 30th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Bauern Dance
A similar argument arises over the relationship between "contra dance" and "country dance". I've heard arguments for either being the original. Trouble is, the documentary evidence is so scanty that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so it's difficult to determine which came first.
# Posted on May 30th 2003 by pm
Re: Bauern Dance
"contra" and "country" have nothing to do with each other -- it has to do with "contra" as in a different language (I think French or Italian, originally) - Brad defined it at http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/455
Zina
# Posted on May 30th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Bauern Dance
In Sweden we've got a common kind of dance tune called 'schottis' (swedish spelling for schottische) that sounds and feels exactly like the Irish Barndance. And the interesting thing is that there is another name for this kind of music and that is 'Rheinländer', meaning something from the land around the river Rhine = Germany. And recently I found a third name for this kind of music: In southern Sweden it was once called 'Tyskpolka' meaning 'German polka'. So there is obviously a connection with this music and Germany. So I think that the "Bauerntanz-theory" has some probability.
# Posted on June 1st 2003 by lars
Re: Bauern Dance
I read a bit about traditional music and dance in various countries years ago when I was a student. From what I can remember this Bauern dance theory seems somewhat unlikely. When the German upper classes developed some interest in music and dance of the lower classes in the 19th century they called it Volkstanz and Volksmusik, Volk being the ordinary people, farmers, labourers and all. I never found the term Bauerntanz (farmers' dance) mentioned. I may be wrong; ask your friend for her source.
Interesting though that these dances are called germans (where?when?)
greetings from Germany,
# Posted on June 1st 2003 by kuec
Re: Bauern Dance
i've also done some research about the barndances while posting this thread: According to a site about Donegal fiddling, the german origin of the Donegal highlands and barndances seems certain. The barndances are called germans in Donegal (from german schottische)
# Posted on June 1st 2003 by paul95
Re: Bauern Dance
I think two things are getting mixed up here. Types of dance like polkas, mazurkas, schottische and rheinländer moving from one country to another and the term barn dance. All four dances mentioned are different and were popular in Germany or possibly the whole of central Europe some time over 100 years ago. Over here Rheinland stands for the western part of Germany and Rheinländer for a particular dance. You'd have to dig into fashionable dances before the age of swing or rock'n roll.-
After the harvest was brought in there would certainly have been feasts and dances. But not in the barn because it would be full up. To me 'barn dance' is more likely the idea of townspeople of what rural pleasures were.
# Posted on June 2nd 2003 by kuec
Re: Bauern Dance
I don't know about Germany or Ireland, but here in Sweden they did certainly dance in the barns.
# Posted on June 2nd 2003 by lars
Re: Bauern Dance
Perhaps the building of a new barn would have been an important event in the life of the village and there would have naturally been dancing and general jollity to celebrate. Just a thought.
Trevor
# Posted on June 7th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Bauern Dance
I agree that there are two issues -- "barn dance" as a generic type of music and dance, and "barn dance" as an event. As a dance type, "barn dance" is an alternate term for what would be called a "schottish" in France or other parts of Europe. As an event, yes people really do dance in barns, we still do here in the Canadian prairies and, I'm sure, in other places. I've been to a few barn dances -- the dancing is done on the second level of the barn where there is often a good sized plank floor to dance on. You wouldn't want to do anything too fancy or refined in the setting but a barn dance works fine in a barn (imagine that!) as do other old time dances or international folk dances.
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by danceall