My wife and I attended sessions at the Abbey Pub and Chief O'Neill's recently. We were surprised by two things: 1) only about 4 or 5 people showed up, and 2) in the course of an hour or so, we recognized maybe two tunes.
We're used to attending a session in the much smaller town of Ann Arbor, where typically 10 to 15 or even more people show up. In addition, the tunes played are much more of the "common session" variety.
It makes sense that attendance would be light at sessions where more well-known tunes are avoided, but is this a good practice in terms of encouraging participation in the tradition?
4 or 5 people would seem pleasant while 10-15 would feel overcrowded in my book. People getting together for a few tunes they like, isn't that the point of it all? Any tune is a 'session' tune if you play it with the company present and I don't see how limiting yourself to rolling off a number of standard tunes does 'the tradition' any service. Also 'participating in the tradition' is really a bit more than said rolling off of the old standards.
To use the "conversation" analogy, I think when there are guests, speaking a common language is polite. I can't imagine a guest coming to our sessions and having to sit there for hours and only getting to play two tunes. I have been to those kind of sessions. They suck.
Absolutely, kilferboy, that's what I like about visiting sessions -- hearing other people’s favorite tunes. Here in SF the sessions go anywhere from 3 to 8 people typically. We have different hosts on each night and I go to them all and try to learn the tunes distinctive to each set of hosts. Common or standard tunes are mixed in, but not out of charity or obligation. If sessions were all the same anywhere you go with the same tunes being played, I'd soon lose interest.
Different strokes for different folks. People who have been learning tunes for 20 or 30 years don't necessarily want to spend all night playing just the tunes they learned 20 or 30 years ago.
And, with thousands of tunes in the tradition, even those veteran players will encounter tunes they don't know.
That's one of the things I like about the session scene--how many tunes will I get to play, tonight? Will they play that new one I just learned? Will I hear one that I really really like--and will I remember the title when I get home, so I can look it up? (I don't use a notebook. If it's that good, I should remember. And if I do forget, it will probably come up again sometime. No shortage of tunes to learn, anyway. I have plenty of others to work on, in the meantime.)
Common tunes aren't diseases to be avoided. There are great common tunes that are fun to play and give guests and intermediate players a chance to have a wonderful, memorable experience.
One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes.
Otherwise, why not just sit home and listen to a bunch of CDs of tunes we don't know. Well, because it is more than just learning (listening to) tunes we don't know. It's about friends and good times together. A common language is key to that experience.
I should add that if I go to a session and I don't hear any tunes I know being played -- I enjoy the music from the bar or a table nearby. I wouldn't sit down and expect the musicians there to cater to me. If I find myself sitting at a table of a session I'm visiting and I don't know many of the tunes coming up -- I get a great seat at the session table for listening. If other people come along that obviously know the tunes, I'll scoot towards the back or quietly move out of the way. Often the hosting musicians won't allow me to escape and will generously ask me to start a tune. But I find a way to slip out of the way if they continue to play tunes I don't know.
The important bottom line for visiting session etiquette in my opinion is to avoid interrupting the flow of the music. The last thing you should do is to come in with preconceptions about what a session "should" be, or to expect the hosts to cater to your repertoire. If you can't enjoy the session as a listener as well as a participant -- maybe you shouldn't be visiting sessions randomly.
Pretty common - sometimes people play standard tunes, other times not. If you don't know the tunes, so what, have a drink, talk, and try to learn some more. I would try and play some standard tunes if this happened, but even that can be tricky as my 'standards' may not be someone else's. And it gets awkward when you play tune after tune trying to find something a visitor knows. And I'm *not* going to suddenly completely alter what I play when someone sits in. (Just like I wouldn't expect other musicians to do this either).
And BTW a 10-15 person session can only be junk IMHO.
I'm sorry that happened to you, it's always a bad experience, esp when you drove hours to visit the session. Some people exclude others by accident, others do it to keep the 'riff raff' out - make of it what you will.
Mickray, it doesn't sound like those "veterans" were interested in learning tunes they don't know or our friend, dfrost, would have been invited to play all night while they eagerly jotted down the names or recorded them. Of course I wasn't there, but it seems like they were hogging all the fun and being rude.
"One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes."
If someone contacts me and says they're going to come to a session I'm the host of -- I say "Great! See you there." I would never ask them to forward a tune list so I could cater to their repertoire, and I would never expect the same from a session I might be visiting.
Let me put it this way: do you send a list of topics you want to discuss to the host of a party you plan to attend? No, of course not -- you just go and have a good time.
Also, "obscure" is a matter of perspective. Once, at a beginner-friendly session (which typically plays the tunes you find by clicking "Tunebook" from the Members page here, or referring to Dow's famous list) a young fellow with a mandolin said, "You people sure play some weird tunes."
But I can't be too hard on him, because I remember saying a couple of similar things myself, not too many years ago.
I have a list of tunes that are common in our area that a potential visitor can look over and know what to expect if they are interested.
I will cater to visitors.
What would someone think driving home after a session knowing that guest just sat there all night?
"Gee, that must have been a hellofalot of fun for them listening to how wonderful we are! I am so happy I was able to provide such a meaningful experience for them! I know they will be back next week for some more. How could they resist? We are just so wonderful"
Yes, ideally the session leader (or informal committee of regulars) will trot out an old favorite here and there. I remember one very experienced session leader starting a set of very common tunes, muttering "Makin' friends, makin' friends," as he did.
But I suppose that some sessions can be so tourist-plagued that the regulars don't get a chance to enjoy the more challenging tunes, if they spend all night on tunes that everybody knows. Me, I sit, listen, and learn, at that kind of session. Have done it plenty of times.
I am new enough to all this to remember quite well how I got started--and it did involve a lot of frustration, sitting in lots of sessions where I got to play on only a couple of tunes all night, and had trouble keeping up on those. Makes it all the sweeter, when you start to get it.
That's teriffic, feardearg, but does that mean everyone esle has to as well? There are things I do at sessions I'm hosting that I wouldn't expect every other session to do when I'm the visitor. This is what I mean by not having preconceptions. If you're visiting someone else's session, you're VISITING their session. It doesn't mean that their session is visting you.
I guess I don't get it. Playing tunes is just a matter of putting your fingers down or lifting them up the right times whether you are playing old favorites or "obscure". Why not just put them down or up in combinations that others will know?
We do a loose round robin kind of thing. So yes, we cater to individuals when it is there turn to start a tune. Sometimes we listen, sometimes we all play. We learn new tunes and share them. Sometimes as solos. But everyone has a chance to play bunches of tunes. those who just sit there choose to do so because they have an opportunity to play.
At sessions I host or attend regularly I'm already familiar with the local dialect, to use the language analogy. When I go somewhere else, I expect to have trouble getting used to the local 'accent', so I also expect to simply do a lot of listening.
The dynamic is different between places where there is a surplus of the music around, and where it's scarce. Here in the cultural wilderness, we're quite happy to see guests, and fall all over ourselves making with the failte. I could easily see how showing up to your regular every week with a different bunch of faces looking to sit in could get weary, though.
I'd obviously asplode from excitement...for a few months, then I'd start getting grumpy too, I'd wager.
feardearg, it sounds like your sessions are great, but the point is that it's only one way to have a session and you can't expect every other session to follow your script. It's a big wide world out there.
Actually, I should confess that we do the "circle of death" at all three sessions I attend regularly, so everybody gets a chance to lead a tune. But I have been to other sessions where the regulars are such outstanding players, it's better all around to just let them do their thing. Sometimes it can be a privilege, and a great learning experience, to just sit there all night.
On the other hand, if the regulars aren't as good as they think they are.... well, agreed, that would suck.
"One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes."
Phantom is right, this is bordering on insanity, do you think people really need a world where everything is expected, there are no surprises, no situations to deal with?
Surely one of the qualities of the session is its unpredictability - would you really want to know every tune you were going to play before you went out?
"I guess I don't get it. Playing tunes is just a matter of putting your fingers down or lifting them up the right times whether you are playing old favorites or "obscure". Why not just put them down or up in combinations that others will know?"
I guess eating food is just shovelling fats and carbs into your mouth. So why then bother with different recipes, foods, vegs, etc? Just whip me up the old protein shake and I'll be dandy.
Yeah, I expect everyone to follow my script!!! Soon the world will see the superiority of my approach.
I think my problem is that I am a tune missionary at heart. I want to spread the enjoyment. A good missionary most times lives a life of sacrifice. A missionary is very inviting.
There is more joy in seeing that 100% of the attenders have a good memory of the evening than in getting off long, indistinct lines of challenging tunes.
feardeard runs beginner's sessions and has been so successful that he's spawned a bunch of other sessions, and now has run out of beginners.
Now is the time for you to gather your closest and dearest musical conspirators, repair in the dark recesses of the pub, play obscure tunes and act surly. You deserve it feardearg! You've done good work, now you need some "you" time!
"Gee, that must have been a hellofalot of fun for them listening to how wonderful we are! I am so happy I was able to provide such a meaningful experience for them! I know they will be back next week for some more. How could they resist? We are just so wonderful"
Flaw i) The session is not primarily about providing a meaningful experience for other random musicians.
Flaw ii) It's unlikely the musicians thought 'we are wonderful'. They more than likely thought - we had good tunes (or who knows, perhaps they thought they were crap), and gave not a whit of notice to musicians who joined in and weren't able to participate in the musical conversation.
Not in a church. But a good session (my opinion) is like a church (kinda). There are friends, acceptance, guiders, rules, understanding, forgiveness, sharing, teaching, something in common, a deep experience. A refuge...yes, a refuge.
I do gather in refuges from the refuges...house sessions and closed sessions. I repair with greatest joy to the michigan woodlands where my dog, various forms of wildlife (not the pub kind) and I can enjoy hours of non-stop tunes, obscure and otherwise.
I do enjoy playing obscure tunes in sessions. But not to the exclusion of other willing musicians. And I am especially adept at acting surly.
Hopefully we will never run out of beginners. If we do, we have to work at making more and more. We certainly never should "run out" beginners.
Wow, you mean your dog and the wildlife in the Michigan woodlands can play ITM too? Ok, of your session system can produce those sorts of results, you definitely have something special going there.
Actually, I rarely know what I am talking about here, as most have observed. I am pretty new to the life of tunes. Just throwing up my uninformed ideas to see how they stand up under the scrutiny top be had here.
I just couldn't be comfortable having someone make the effort to attend a session and then just sit there.
What you have is a gift with those beginners that not everyone has. It's a good thing, but not everybody has it or can do it, though I know it seems to you as though everyone could. People actively seeking beginners and looking to spread the gospel of the music (there's that analogy again) expect to cater to them and to everyone, while those that don't can't possibly be expected to do so. What you have is a skill like any other, very few have it. I have faith the Grand Poobah of ITM is pleased with your missionary efforts. I know I am!
I was just in Chicago unexpectedly. I went to a pub a couple of blocks from the hotel hoping to find a session. I asked a smoker outside if there was any music going on inside. She said there were hoola dancers. I thought that was just as good (maybe better). There weren't any hoola dancers, but I joined the party that caused such halucinations and had a great time.
To return to the original question, dfost, I´ve just returned from a trip to Chicago and I went to a session at Chief O´Neils.
There were about 7or 8 musicians there and most of the tunes played were either session favourites or tunes that I had heard at some session or other in the past. That´s not to say that I was able to play them all, but there weren´t many that I´d never heard before.
Maybe you were just unlucky on that night.
I didn´t get to the Abbey so I can´t speak for that session.
maybe your Chicago session wasn't really a session - here in Portland we have a few "sessions" that are called such but are really a weekly performance of a group of 4 or 5 musicians and occasional guests who are friends of theirs or well-known musicians who are passing through town. One of these performance-type sessions is new and also not completely honest about what they're doing - on the website it says it's open, but all of us musicians around town have been told we're not welcome:
if you'd showed up at either of these, you'd have had just the experience you described (although if any of us had been present we'd have told you what was going on)
The pub's website is indeed ambiguous at best, but I would not assume the hosting musicians wrote the copy. In the end, I guess it is what it is.
I have a copy of one of their CD's, Six of One, and they are great players (and singers). You have a lot of ITM greats in your neck of the woods. Are their any open sessions happening up there?
I've made a mental note that, if I'm ever in Michigan, I won't be going to no sessions. No sirree! I couldn't be bothered to provide a list of tunes I know - anyway, I don't know how many tunes I know - and my instinctive reaction to being provided with a list of common tunes for that area would be ... just not to turn up. I'd know I'd just hate it.
On another point - and I know we've talked about this before, but even so, I'm more and more minded to open a fresh discussion - I would much prefer a session where there is no session host. I don't like hosted sessions - the only ones I've enjoyed have all been hosted by the same chap, who happens to be a member here. For the most part, the sessions I enjoy most don't have 'hosts'.
Thanks - I wasn't sure if I remembered correctly, so I didn't want to mention it! I will likely only be able to get over there for an hour, but would very much like to hear him. Mary gave me a copy of that CD; it's very nice (and they play a favorite jig of mine - Pull out the Knife and Stick it in Again - on there).
Session "host" is the owner of the venue--the guy who lets you play in his room, and maybe gives you a beer on the house.
Session "leader" is the person responsible for communicating with the host about the session, and making sure the session stays in good standing with the host.
The list is not required. One doesn't need to provide a list. I have invited lists in the past to reluctant musicians to let them know that we want them to have plenty of opportunities to play.
The list (brief and incomplete) of tunes one generally hears in these parts is a reference for beginners to use when they may be considering learning new tunes to play in the group.
Ah. I see. Well, I'll just stick to my more laissez-faire, anarchistic version.
[Ed: neither of the above mentioned concepts should be read as being meant in their usual political sense, as that would make the above statement plainly oxymoronic]
Keith - they are great, and they do occasionally show up at the Alberta Street session on Friday nights (that session's open, and listed on this site). There's a Sunday evening session at Kell's which I've never been too, and I host a session in my kitchen, so let me know if you're ever in Portland. I should have made it clear that I'm criticizing whoever's organizing the music and website and not the musicians.
Thanks airport - I will! We had a wonderful kitchen session here end recently, and I really miss it.
I've got to get myself up there someday. I've only sped through on my way to Port Townsend to visit some friends, and it looks like a beautiful city. I suppose there are lots of SF Bay Area transplants.
It would be good to know - just out of curiosity - the names of
some of the 'obscure' Chicago session tunes - how about a
dozen or so? It's good to know what's happening on the other
side of the planet; I won't be showing up at a Chicagoland
session any time soon so this is just theoretical.
What I like about a session is that you sit down with friends and see what will happen, let the mind associate freely and see what tunes you think of. In some situations an instinctive system of seniority will kick in but more often things are free flowing. Sessions with 'session lists' and 'leaders' seem regimented to the extreme and to be avoided.
The attractive thing about some of my local sessions is that you on one hand know (some of) the people who come (and what their favourites may be) but on the other hand anyone (and I mean anyone, there was the one night that first Donough H and Sharon Shannon walked in and an hour later Molloy and Keane stuck their head in the door and that was on top of who were already there) may turn up at any time and every night is different, very different. In other words, depending on who turns up you may be challenged to dig into your memory for the lost old ones or you may have to learn a few new ones on the spot but you're not likely to repeat the same old same old every week.
The best musicians are the best listeners, but it's a shame reading comprehension isn't also a part of that skill set. If have to see the whole beginner's session/tune list thing explained one more time on here I think my head's going to asplode.
Oh cripes, now I'm so out of whack I've used 'asplode' twice on the same thread.
Feardearg's approach sounds wonderful to a beginner like me - due to my limited repertoire, when a session wants to include me, they often have to name 15 or 20 tunes before they get to one I actually know. Having a list of tunes to bring up to have a guaranteed chance of including a newcomer seems a nice way to keep the session moving but social. Sure, it removes the element of surprise for the person holding the list, but everyone else is still surprised and it can go a long way toward making a beginner feel welcome. (Advanced visitors could dispense with the list altogether)
I also got a local list of common tune names (along with a home-recorded CD) when I moved to this area, and that was a really really nice touch. A guy at my local session has done many of the welcoming gestures that Feardeag describes, when he judges that it would be appreciated, and I can tell you that it makes a world of difference to a not-so-confident beginner. Of course, when a more advanced visitor shows up, we dispense with the lists and just play. It all seems to result in a very friendly session that builds up beginners and brings back visitors.
I guess I will weigh in from the South Side of Chicago
I always thought sessions at Abbey and Chief O'Neil's (both very nice places by the way) were pretty much inside clubby sorts of things of a group of musicians. I am impressed that someone played in.
Aside from those two, which are hopelessly inconvenient if you are on the south side of town, there are few other opportunities (Irish American Cultural Center-another way north location has a session that is very welcoming with very serious players.)
I've been looking for one for a couple of years that is 'open', but the only ones I've found are way west of the City (Downers Grove) and rumors of one in Frankfort... even though the venues that were there when I stopped in were country-western bands.
In fact I found another south sider who was interested in starting something, because that seems to be the only way we will have something going with less than a 100 mile ride involved. (In Chicago, there are two seasons-Winter and Road Construction season. Neither for the weak of heart.)
I've attended sessions at both the Abbey and Chief o'Neiils on visits to Chicago. I've found the level of musicanship at both to be generally on the advanced side, for the most part, though of course that varies depending on who is there. I have no idea who was there the night(s) you stopped by, but I have had the pleasure of listening to some fantastic players at those venues.
When there, I've played along when I knew the tunes, and listened, fiddle in lap when i didn't. The latter was just as enjoyable, and perhaps more educational, as the former. It's not everyday you get to hear good musicans cranking out good tunes.
I can't for the life of me understand why people expect a session they visit to cater to them.
i) how in the name of god are they supposed to know what tunes you know? You're idea of "common" tunes may be quite different from their's, esp if they have a huge repetoire.
ii) why should a group of people have to alter their weekly musical outpouring (something that they have probably looked forward to all week, esp if they are diehards who live and breath the music) just to suit you.
iii) just because they are playing tunes you don't know, doesn;t mean they are excluding you... see number (i)
iv) you could have asked if it was ok to start a few sets. I doubt very much they would have denied you the oppurtunity.
v) not ever sessions has to be a lowest common denominator session. Nobody ensists that beginner sessions in the boonies should be high powered sessions with all obscure tunes, so why can't there also be gatherings of players who play a repetoire that is less common? There's more than enough room for all kinds of sessions, esp in a city like Chicago that has a large critical mass of players, some very adavnced. There are more beginner friendly sessions in the town that you could have gone to.
What's up with Chicago sessions?
What's up with Chicago sessions?
My wife and I attended sessions at the Abbey Pub and Chief O'Neill's recently. We were surprised by two things: 1) only about 4 or 5 people showed up, and 2) in the course of an hour or so, we recognized maybe two tunes.
We're used to attending a session in the much smaller town of Ann Arbor, where typically 10 to 15 or even more people show up. In addition, the tunes played are much more of the "common session" variety.
It makes sense that attendance would be light at sessions where more well-known tunes are avoided, but is this a good practice in terms of encouraging participation in the tradition?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by dfost
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
4 or 5 people would seem pleasant while 10-15 would feel overcrowded in my book. People getting together for a few tunes they like, isn't that the point of it all? Any tune is a 'session' tune if you play it with the company present and I don't see how limiting yourself to rolling off a number of standard tunes does 'the tradition' any service. Also 'participating in the tradition' is really a bit more than said rolling off of the old standards.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I didn't make it clear that we were trying to participate in the session - we weren't able to because the tunes were too obscure.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by dfost
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
To use the "conversation" analogy, I think when there are guests, speaking a common language is polite. I can't imagine a guest coming to our sessions and having to sit there for hours and only getting to play two tunes. I have been to those kind of sessions. They suck.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Absolutely, kilferboy, that's what I like about visiting sessions -- hearing other people’s favorite tunes. Here in SF the sessions go anywhere from 3 to 8 people typically. We have different hosts on each night and I go to them all and try to learn the tunes distinctive to each set of hosts. Common or standard tunes are mixed in, but not out of charity or obligation. If sessions were all the same anywhere you go with the same tunes being played, I'd soon lose interest.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Different strokes for different folks. People who have been learning tunes for 20 or 30 years don't necessarily want to spend all night playing just the tunes they learned 20 or 30 years ago.
And, with thousands of tunes in the tradition, even those veteran players will encounter tunes they don't know.
That's one of the things I like about the session scene--how many tunes will I get to play, tonight? Will they play that new one I just learned? Will I hear one that I really really like--and will I remember the title when I get home, so I can look it up? (I don't use a notebook. If it's that good, I should remember. And if I do forget, it will probably come up again sometime. No shortage of tunes to learn, anyway. I have plenty of others to work on, in the meantime.)
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Common tunes aren't diseases to be avoided. There are great common tunes that are fun to play and give guests and intermediate players a chance to have a wonderful, memorable experience.
One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes.
Otherwise, why not just sit home and listen to a bunch of CDs of tunes we don't know. Well, because it is more than just learning (listening to) tunes we don't know. It's about friends and good times together. A common language is key to that experience.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I should add that if I go to a session and I don't hear any tunes I know being played -- I enjoy the music from the bar or a table nearby. I wouldn't sit down and expect the musicians there to cater to me. If I find myself sitting at a table of a session I'm visiting and I don't know many of the tunes coming up -- I get a great seat at the session table for listening. If other people come along that obviously know the tunes, I'll scoot towards the back or quietly move out of the way. Often the hosting musicians won't allow me to escape and will generously ask me to start a tune. But I find a way to slip out of the way if they continue to play tunes I don't know.
The important bottom line for visiting session etiquette in my opinion is to avoid interrupting the flow of the music. The last thing you should do is to come in with preconceptions about what a session "should" be, or to expect the hosts to cater to your repertoire. If you can't enjoy the session as a listener as well as a participant -- maybe you shouldn't be visiting sessions randomly.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Pretty common - sometimes people play standard tunes, other times not. If you don't know the tunes, so what, have a drink, talk, and try to learn some more. I would try and play some standard tunes if this happened, but even that can be tricky as my 'standards' may not be someone else's. And it gets awkward when you play tune after tune trying to find something a visitor knows. And I'm *not* going to suddenly completely alter what I play when someone sits in. (Just like I wouldn't expect other musicians to do this either).
And BTW a 10-15 person session can only be junk IMHO.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by continuo
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
That's when tape recorders come in handy.
I'm sorry that happened to you, it's always a bad experience, esp when you drove hours to visit the session. Some people exclude others by accident, others do it to keep the 'riff raff' out - make of it what you will.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Mickray, it doesn't sound like those "veterans" were interested in learning tunes they don't know or our friend, dfrost, would have been invited to play all night while they eagerly jotted down the names or recorded them. Of course I wasn't there, but it seems like they were hogging all the fun and being rude.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Sometimes grown ups act like a bunch of clique-y schoolgirls.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Mad Baloney
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
"One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes."
If someone contacts me and says they're going to come to a session I'm the host of -- I say "Great! See you there." I would never ask them to forward a tune list so I could cater to their repertoire, and I would never expect the same from a session I might be visiting.
Let me put it this way: do you send a list of topics you want to discuss to the host of a party you plan to attend? No, of course not -- you just go and have a good time.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I won't have a good time if no one talks to me or allows me to speak.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Also, "obscure" is a matter of perspective. Once, at a beginner-friendly session (which typically plays the tunes you find by clicking "Tunebook" from the Members page here, or referring to Dow's famous list) a young fellow with a mandolin said, "You people sure play some weird tunes."
But I can't be too hard on him, because I remember saying a couple of similar things myself, not too many years ago.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I have a list of tunes that are common in our area that a potential visitor can look over and know what to expect if they are interested.
I will cater to visitors.
What would someone think driving home after a session knowing that guest just sat there all night?
"Gee, that must have been a hellofalot of fun for them listening to how wonderful we are! I am so happy I was able to provide such a meaningful experience for them! I know they will be back next week for some more. How could they resist? We are just so wonderful"
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Yes, ideally the session leader (or informal committee of regulars) will trot out an old favorite here and there. I remember one very experienced session leader starting a set of very common tunes, muttering "Makin' friends, makin' friends," as he did.
But I suppose that some sessions can be so tourist-plagued that the regulars don't get a chance to enjoy the more challenging tunes, if they spend all night on tunes that everybody knows. Me, I sit, listen, and learn, at that kind of session. Have done it plenty of times.
I am new enough to all this to remember quite well how I got started--and it did involve a lot of frustration, sitting in lots of sessions where I got to play on only a couple of tunes all night, and had trouble keeping up on those. Makes it all the sweeter, when you start to get it.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
feardearg writes: "I will cater to visitors."
That's teriffic, feardearg, but does that mean everyone esle has to as well? There are things I do at sessions I'm hosting that I wouldn't expect every other session to do when I'm the visitor. This is what I mean by not having preconceptions. If you're visiting someone else's session, you're VISITING their session. It doesn't mean that their session is visting you.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I guess I don't get it. Playing tunes is just a matter of putting your fingers down or lifting them up the right times whether you are playing old favorites or "obscure". Why not just put them down or up in combinations that others will know?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Because learning new tunes is part of the fun. It would be boring to play the same tunes all the time.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
We do a loose round robin kind of thing. So yes, we cater to individuals when it is there turn to start a tune. Sometimes we listen, sometimes we all play. We learn new tunes and share them. Sometimes as solos. But everyone has a chance to play bunches of tunes. those who just sit there choose to do so because they have an opportunity to play.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
At sessions I host or attend regularly I'm already familiar with the local dialect, to use the language analogy. When I go somewhere else, I expect to have trouble getting used to the local 'accent', so I also expect to simply do a lot of listening.
The dynamic is different between places where there is a surplus of the music around, and where it's scarce. Here in the cultural wilderness, we're quite happy to see guests, and fall all over ourselves making with the failte. I could easily see how showing up to your regular every week with a different bunch of faces looking to sit in could get weary, though.
I'd obviously asplode from excitement...for a few months, then I'd start getting grumpy too, I'd wager.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
feardearg, it sounds like your sessions are great, but the point is that it's only one way to have a session and you can't expect every other session to follow your script. It's a big wide world out there.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Actually, I should confess that we do the "circle of death" at all three sessions I attend regularly, so everybody gets a chance to lead a tune. But I have been to other sessions where the regulars are such outstanding players, it's better all around to just let them do their thing. Sometimes it can be a privilege, and a great learning experience, to just sit there all night.
On the other hand, if the regulars aren't as good as they think they are.... well, agreed, that would suck.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
"One thing I have done in the past is to ask someone who may be coming to send me a list of tunes they know. I find the tunes that intersect with the tunes I know or that our group plays and make a printout. I glance at the list and start those tunes."
Phantom is right, this is bordering on insanity, do you think people really need a world where everything is expected, there are no surprises, no situations to deal with?
Surely one of the qualities of the session is its unpredictability - would you really want to know every tune you were going to play before you went out?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by continuo
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
"I guess I don't get it. Playing tunes is just a matter of putting your fingers down or lifting them up the right times whether you are playing old favorites or "obscure". Why not just put them down or up in combinations that others will know?"
I guess eating food is just shovelling fats and carbs into your mouth. So why then bother with different recipes, foods, vegs, etc? Just whip me up the old protein shake and I'll be dandy.
Gah.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by continuo
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Yeah, I expect everyone to follow my script!!! Soon the world will see the superiority of my approach.
I think my problem is that I am a tune missionary at heart. I want to spread the enjoyment. A good missionary most times lives a life of sacrifice. A missionary is very inviting.
There is more joy in seeing that 100% of the attenders have a good memory of the evening than in getting off long, indistinct lines of challenging tunes.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
feardearg... is your session held in a church? Just curious.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Continuo "Do you think people really need a world where..."
I think people need a friendly world. They should expect that from people with a common interest.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
feardeard runs beginner's sessions and has been so successful that he's spawned a bunch of other sessions, and now has run out of beginners.
Now is the time for you to gather your closest and dearest musical conspirators, repair in the dark recesses of the pub, play obscure tunes and act surly. You deserve it feardearg! You've done good work, now you need some "you" time!
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
"Gee, that must have been a hellofalot of fun for them listening to how wonderful we are! I am so happy I was able to provide such a meaningful experience for them! I know they will be back next week for some more. How could they resist? We are just so wonderful"
Flaw i) The session is not primarily about providing a meaningful experience for other random musicians.
Flaw ii) It's unlikely the musicians thought 'we are wonderful'. They more than likely thought - we had good tunes (or who knows, perhaps they thought they were crap), and gave not a whit of notice to musicians who joined in and weren't able to participate in the musical conversation.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by continuo
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Not in a church. But a good session (my opinion) is like a church (kinda). There are friends, acceptance, guiders, rules, understanding, forgiveness, sharing, teaching, something in common, a deep experience. A refuge...yes, a refuge.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
so my question to you, feardearg, is: do you think that all other sessions around the world should adhere to your formula for a good session?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Some people are accommodating, and some are not. Some have neither the capacity or desire.
Whoa! News flash for all!
People are different and do things differently. Amazing! Who woulda thunk it?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I do gather in refuges from the refuges...house sessions and closed sessions. I repair with greatest joy to the michigan woodlands where my dog, various forms of wildlife (not the pub kind) and I can enjoy hours of non-stop tunes, obscure and otherwise.
I do enjoy playing obscure tunes in sessions. But not to the exclusion of other willing musicians. And I am especially adept at acting surly.
Hopefully we will never run out of beginners. If we do, we have to work at making more and more. We certainly never should "run out" beginners.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
"do you think that all other sessions around the world should adhere to your formula for a good session?"
No.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Wow, you mean your dog and the wildlife in the Michigan woodlands can play ITM too? Ok, of your session system can produce those sorts of results, you definitely have something special going there.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Actually, I rarely know what I am talking about here, as most have observed. I am pretty new to the life of tunes. Just throwing up my uninformed ideas to see how they stand up under the scrutiny top be had here.
I just couldn't be comfortable having someone make the effort to attend a session and then just sit there.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Dog and wildlife. They are just allowed to listen.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
All they do is produce crap, anyway.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
What you have is a gift with those beginners that not everyone has. It's a good thing, but not everybody has it or can do it, though I know it seems to you as though everyone could. People actively seeking beginners and looking to spread the gospel of the music (there's that analogy again) expect to cater to them and to everyone, while those that don't can't possibly be expected to do so. What you have is a skill like any other, very few have it. I have faith the Grand Poobah of ITM is pleased with your missionary efforts. I know I am!
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Bless you, SWFL.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I was just in Chicago unexpectedly. I went to a pub a couple of blocks from the hotel hoping to find a session. I asked a smoker outside if there was any music going on inside. She said there were hoola dancers. I thought that was just as good (maybe better). There weren't any hoola dancers, but I joined the party that caused such halucinations and had a great time.
I love Chicago!
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
To return to the original question, dfost, I´ve just returned from a trip to Chicago and I went to a session at Chief O´Neils.
There were about 7or 8 musicians there and most of the tunes played were either session favourites or tunes that I had heard at some session or other in the past. That´s not to say that I was able to play them all, but there weren´t many that I´d never heard before.
Maybe you were just unlucky on that night.
I didn´t get to the Abbey so I can´t speak for that session.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by murfbox
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
maybe your Chicago session wasn't really a session - here in Portland we have a few "sessions" that are called such but are really a weekly performance of a group of 4 or 5 musicians and occasional guests who are friends of theirs or well-known musicians who are passing through town. One of these performance-type sessions is new and also not completely honest about what they're doing - on the website it says it's open, but all of us musicians around town have been told we're not welcome:
http://www.biddymcgraws.com/
if you'd showed up at either of these, you'd have had just the experience you described (although if any of us had been present we'd have told you what was going on)
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by airport
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
airport,
The pub's website is indeed ambiguous at best, but I would not assume the hosting musicians wrote the copy. In the end, I guess it is what it is.
I have a copy of one of their CD's, Six of One, and they are great players (and singers). You have a lot of ITM greats in your neck of the woods. Are their any open sessions happening up there?
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Hey Keith... Mary told me she's bringing Hans to the session on Sunday.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I've made a mental note that, if I'm ever in Michigan, I won't be going to no sessions. No sirree! I couldn't be bothered to provide a list of tunes I know - anyway, I don't know how many tunes I know - and my instinctive reaction to being provided with a list of common tunes for that area would be ... just not to turn up. I'd know I'd just hate it.
On another point - and I know we've talked about this before, but even so, I'm more and more minded to open a fresh discussion - I would much prefer a session where there is no session host. I don't like hosted sessions - the only ones I've enjoyed have all been hosted by the same chap, who happens to be a member here. For the most part, the sessions I enjoy most don't have 'hosts'.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Thanks - I wasn't sure if I remembered correctly, so I didn't want to mention it! I will likely only be able to get over there for an hour, but would very much like to hear him. Mary gave me a copy of that CD; it's very nice (and they play a favorite jig of mine - Pull out the Knife and Stick it in Again - on there).
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
We will miss you, brother Benhall.1. You probably would hate it.
Odd tho, the ONLY sessions you have enjoyed have ALL been hosted....yet the ones you enjoy most don't have hosts.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Sorry, I reread your post Benhall.1. I see what you meant.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
A minor quibble, but to me:
Session "host" is the owner of the venue--the guy who lets you play in his room, and maybe gives you a beer on the house.
Session "leader" is the person responsible for communicating with the host about the session, and making sure the session stays in good standing with the host.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by John Galt
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I put it really ambiguously, feardearg. My apologies.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
The list is not required. One doesn't need to provide a list. I have invited lists in the past to reluctant musicians to let them know that we want them to have plenty of opportunities to play.
The list (brief and incomplete) of tunes one generally hears in these parts is a reference for beginners to use when they may be considering learning new tunes to play in the group.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Ah. I see. Well, I'll just stick to my more laissez-faire, anarchistic version.
[Ed: neither of the above mentioned concepts should be read as being meant in their usual political sense, as that would make the above statement plainly oxymoronic]
[As opposed to just moronic]
[Which it probably is]
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Sometimes the publican has to hire hosts to support a regular session in their pub.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Believe me, we are laissez-faire, anarchistic. We are just friendly and welcoming.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Keith - they are great, and they do occasionally show up at the Alberta Street session on Friday nights (that session's open, and listed on this site). There's a Sunday evening session at Kell's which I've never been too, and I host a session in my kitchen, so let me know if you're ever in Portland. I should have made it clear that I'm criticizing whoever's organizing the music and website and not the musicians.
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by airport
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Kells - as in Book of Kells - I can't stop putting that apostrophe in there
# Posted on April 12th 2008 by airport
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
The Kell's session in Portland is pretty variable but it can be quite a good time.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by timmy!
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Thanks airport - I will! We had a wonderful kitchen session here end recently, and I really miss it.
I've got to get myself up there someday. I've only sped through on my way to Port Townsend to visit some friends, and it looks like a beautiful city. I suppose there are lots of SF Bay Area transplants.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
It would be good to know - just out of curiosity - the names of
some of the 'obscure' Chicago session tunes - how about a
dozen or so? It's good to know what's happening on the other
side of the planet; I won't be showing up at a Chicagoland
session any time soon so this is just theoretical.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Hup
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
What I like about a session is that you sit down with friends and see what will happen, let the mind associate freely and see what tunes you think of. In some situations an instinctive system of seniority will kick in but more often things are free flowing. Sessions with 'session lists' and 'leaders' seem regimented to the extreme and to be avoided.
The attractive thing about some of my local sessions is that you on one hand know (some of) the people who come (and what their favourites may be) but on the other hand anyone (and I mean anyone, there was the one night that first Donough H and Sharon Shannon walked in and an hour later Molloy and Keane stuck their head in the door and that was on top of who were already there) may turn up at any time and every night is different, very different. In other words, depending on who turns up you may be challenged to dig into your memory for the lost old ones or you may have to learn a few new ones on the spot but you're not likely to repeat the same old same old every week.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Sheeesh. The session list as mentioned above, again, is just to help beginners select and learn tunes that they are most likely to hear locally.
It is like dow's wonderful list, but compiled of common tunes in our area, which makes it a little more helpful to those who choose to use it.
We don't stick to the list. No one is penalized for playing "obscure" tunes.
It could also give a visitor, if they happen on our site before they come, an idea of the kinds of tunes we play.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
The best musicians are the best listeners, but it's a shame reading comprehension isn't also a part of that skill set. If have to see the whole beginner's session/tune list thing explained one more time on here I think my head's going to asplode.
Oh cripes, now I'm so out of whack I've used 'asplode' twice on the same thread.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Oh ... I thought for a moment it was my "reading comprehension" skills.
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Sorry, I just hate to see good-hearted feardearg get such a hard time.
...and, technically speaking, I've used it three times now. ASPLODE! Four...
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Apparently it's two words: A Splode:
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/A_Splode
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Feardearg's approach sounds wonderful to a beginner like me - due to my limited repertoire, when a session wants to include me, they often have to name 15 or 20 tunes before they get to one I actually know. Having a list of tunes to bring up to have a guaranteed chance of including a newcomer seems a nice way to keep the session moving but social. Sure, it removes the element of surprise for the person holding the list, but everyone else is still surprised and it can go a long way toward making a beginner feel welcome. (Advanced visitors could dispense with the list altogether)
I also got a local list of common tune names (along with a home-recorded CD) when I moved to this area, and that was a really really nice touch. A guy at my local session has done many of the welcoming gestures that Feardeag describes, when he judges that it would be appreciated, and I can tell you that it makes a world of difference to a not-so-confident beginner. Of course, when a more advanced visitor shows up, we dispense with the lists and just play. It all seems to result in a very friendly session that builds up beginners and brings back visitors.
Oh, and.... YOUR HEAD A SPLODE
# Posted on April 13th 2008 by fuzzygreen
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
Ah! Thank you SWFL and fliedermaus. There is nothing like being understood! I hope this whole epaslode on lists has run its course.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by feardearg
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I guess I will weigh in from the South Side of Chicago
I always thought sessions at Abbey and Chief O'Neil's (both very nice places by the way) were pretty much inside clubby sorts of things of a group of musicians. I am impressed that someone played in.
Aside from those two, which are hopelessly inconvenient if you are on the south side of town, there are few other opportunities (Irish American Cultural Center-another way north location has a session that is very welcoming with very serious players.)
I've been looking for one for a couple of years that is 'open', but the only ones I've found are way west of the City (Downers Grove) and rumors of one in Frankfort... even though the venues that were there when I stopped in were country-western bands.
In fact I found another south sider who was interested in starting something, because that seems to be the only way we will have something going with less than a 100 mile ride involved. (In Chicago, there are two seasons-Winter and Road Construction season. Neither for the weak of heart.)
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by zippydw
Re: What's up with Chicago sessions?
I've attended sessions at both the Abbey and Chief o'Neiils on visits to Chicago. I've found the level of musicanship at both to be generally on the advanced side, for the most part, though of course that varies depending on who is there. I have no idea who was there the night(s) you stopped by, but I have had the pleasure of listening to some fantastic players at those venues.
When there, I've played along when I knew the tunes, and listened, fiddle in lap when i didn't. The latter was just as enjoyable, and perhaps more educational, as the former. It's not everyday you get to hear good musicans cranking out good tunes.
I can't for the life of me understand why people expect a session they visit to cater to them.
i) how in the name of god are they supposed to know what tunes you know? You're idea of "common" tunes may be quite different from their's, esp if they have a huge repetoire.
ii) why should a group of people have to alter their weekly musical outpouring (something that they have probably looked forward to all week, esp if they are diehards who live and breath the music) just to suit you.
iii) just because they are playing tunes you don't know, doesn;t mean they are excluding you... see number (i)
iv) you could have asked if it was ok to start a few sets. I doubt very much they would have denied you the oppurtunity.
v) not ever sessions has to be a lowest common denominator session. Nobody ensists that beginner sessions in the boonies should be high powered sessions with all obscure tunes, so why can't there also be gatherings of players who play a repetoire that is less common? There's more than enough room for all kinds of sessions, esp in a city like Chicago that has a large critical mass of players, some very adavnced. There are more beginner friendly sessions in the town that you could have gone to.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Killone