I submitted this discussion yesterday under the title "St. Louis Tionol." A reader suggested that a more specific title would be better and a couple of others mentioned in their comments that they just stumbled onto the thread. So, I've given it a better title. There were some great comments, though, in the poorly titled thread. You can read them here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17119
Here is the original thread:
I've been attending the St. Louis Tionol for the last 5 years, and I'm excited this year to be included among the teachers. I'll teach a beginning Irish guitar accompaniment workshop. One item I'm working on for my students is a set of "Golden Rules" for session guitarists. I want 10 rules, but I only have 9. Perhaps you can help:
1. First, do no harm.
2. Irish guitar accompaniment is different from American folk styles (like old time or bluegrass) both harmonically and rhythmically. Understand those differences.
3. You have to practice and develop technique as much as melody players do.
4. You have to learn tunes. You don't necessarily need to pick the notes on your instrument, but you at least need to know tunes in your head. When you come to that inevitable point in a session where the melody players are trying to figure out the name of a tune they just played, you--as often as anybody else--should be the first to correctly name that tune. Make that a point of pride.
5. Irish guitar accompaniment is improvisational and eclectic. Revel in that. If you play a tune 3 times through, you should play it 3 different ways.
6. Since Irish guitar accompaniment is improvisational and eclectic and there are many, many ways to accompany the same tune, if there are other accompanists, you should take turns playing unless you really know how to work together.
7. Slow airs sound just fine unaccompanied.
8. Develop an understanding of chord theory, including triads, chord substitutions, passing chords, moving bass lines, and suspensions.
9. Develop at least a rudimentary understanding of modality.
-It's OK, perhaps even desirable, to sit out the occasional tune, even if it isn't an air. A variation on this is to come in after the first time through on a jig or reel, giving the pure melody a chance to get established.
I don't know about the second part of rule four. Instead of memorizing tune names I'd concentrate more on technique and such. I do agree with the first part though.
Number 2 is surely redundant. It implies that if you don't know American folk styles, you should equate yourself with them so you can understand the differences. Pointless.
Number 6. I'm confused over the word "eclectic"? You shouldn't be selecting and choosing from various sources of guitar styles. Your only influence should be the tunes.
Number 9. Not strong enough. Should be something more like: "Have an equal understanding of all the modes used."
I have to agree on llig's #6 and 9... but think it's a matter of wording on#2 perhaps... I think people get the gist of it, essentially be with the music, not on the offbeat, filling in the spaces like in Bluegrass.
On #6, right....the influence should be the tunes, absolutely... but I think Keith means once you have that you can choose the style with which to accompany. It could be finger picked or flat picked, or melodic and soft or strong on the attack. Never compete with the tune or melody player though. My main rule of backing is never be the one noticed, which does not mean you are low volume necessarily, but that you fit in so well and so seamlessly you are not drawing attention. Ideally what you do should add to the melody player to the point where the focus is even more on them. When you stop playing is when they should notice you... like...whoops... something fell out. It's all about the melody player... it's not something for someone with rock star mentality. To me, backing is about humility, offering yourself and your ego up to the tunes, doing what is best for the tune as well as you can, period. And that is the great joy about backing. A good backer too, they could play the tunes if they wanted to, in fact many throw in parts of the tunes when the mood hits. They back because they enjoy it, not all couldn't cut it as a melody player as some think... look at Doyle, Clancy... etc.
On #9 too many just stop at the rudimentary phase... for the serious student, they should want to go well beyond that.... but this is just a weekend workshop, right Keith? There are as many fine points on good backing as there are on good melody playing, and you won't be turning them out on a weekend. Hopefully you will plant some of your great ideas in them though.... and if anyone can, you can Keith! You really get the music at a deep level.
I posted this on the previous thread, so I might as well re-contribute it to this one.....
As an extension to #8 - chord inversions (although sort of linked to triad theory and bass lines). Voice leading as well, each note sounded should have a purpose. Possibly linked into use (and abuse) of open tunings & DADGAD.
Along the lines of #4 -you could also mention something about how tunes can do unexpected things (accidentals etc) so a knowledge of the tunes is essential. Often parts of tunes are not in the same key or mode, if you can hum the tunes you'll know how they change.
#9 - I'd think a more than rudimentary understanding is called for, and needs to be combinable with #8. Possibly you could combine rules #8 & 9?
Another way to express #1 might be: a guitar should always add something to a session, and never detract.
I think #5 & #6 could be combined to something along the lines of: "There's an effectively limitless way to accompany the same tune, allowing for variances in taste, style, tuning, and voicing. So try to vary the way you accompany a tune each time through. And be aware that other accompanists might have entirely different approaches, so you might have to take turns."
I think your potential #10 could be something along the lines of "within a bar of 4/4, 6/8 or whatever, the notes are not equally spaced within the bar. A guitarist should not play uniformly on the beat, else they end up crushing the rhythm of the music, they must be able to move in front of and behind the beat to both compliment the music and enhance it. A guitarist should be able to both maintain a steady tempo, but also be able to react to changes"
But if you take number as the way you do, it's covered elsewhere. Number 2 is America-centric. Which is fine if you're american, I suppose.
On number 6, Yes, never compete. But that's a general rule for everyone, not just the strummer. Though I do have an issue with never being noticed. You should be influencing the other musicians. The feedback loop of influence and response between all the musicians is vital.
Llig stated "Number 2 is surely redundant. It implies that if you don't know American folk styles, you should equate yourself with them so you can understand the differences. Pointless." Generally I would agree except that I, like most Yanks I'd wager, come to this music via American Folk, Old Time, &/or Bluegrass. And this is going to be a class predominately of Americans I assume (St. Lous, MO). I have to admit that if I'm not paying attention my "Miss McCleod's" can easily slip into "Did You Ever See The Devil, Uncle Joe?"
There was a thread about harmony a few days ago that I posted this on. (I posted quite after the thread had died and it got missed. But it's really quite pertinent to this thread) ...
Playing harmony is well established and has been for some years now where I play. Though I don't make a distinction between what is described as the strummers' harmony and the melody players' harmony. The tunes themselves are harmonic and rhythmic constructions and whether the music follows a single line or a more dense structure of simultaneous layers is merely a didactic distinction.
The divisive nature of the melody players verses the backers is unhelpful. Once you start to recognise the tunes as harmonic structures in their own right, rather than merely lines of unrelated notes, then this division can be melted away. (And, of course, once you start to recognise the tunes as rhythmic structures in their own right, you can do away with your superfluous drummers.)
One of the reasons I love the viola so much in a session is it is designed to bridge the gap between melody and accompaniment.
OK.. Llig... maybe I misworded... I don't mean totally not noticed, but the focus is the melody... not being an intrusive backer, just my feeling on it, just don't like when the ear goes more to the backer. It ought to blend so well your focus is the melody.
And in the US you do get a lot of crossover from folk and bluegrass, people filling in the off beats. In fact I had a funny experience... not so funny at the time, invited to a party where it ended up mainly Old Timey, and got scolded ... "THIS IS NOT IRISH MUSIC".... and was shown how to hit the off beat... I obliged for fun for a few tunes, but did cut out fairly quickly.
The divisive nature between backers and melody players, interesting thoughts. Do you find it divisive with a good piano backer, a Charlie Lennon for example? I keep telling guitar players to listen to good piano backing, the bits of melody, the harmony bits, the easing in and out of a chord, use a chord for a brief stress note, much like a piano player, rather than sitting on chord after chord, one after the other round and round in a repetative pattern. The piano moves can be applied to guitar quite well, where the backing can be more melody and harmony if desired. Accompaniment with parts of tunes kicked in and harmony can also bridge the gap... perhaps more like a harp would back as well.
I stopped playing guitar for 38 years or so. While I don't like rules (seems against the spirit if the music), I found my approach to the music has worked very well for me. By the way, I agree with most of your "rules" with some modification.
I attended the first session I played for 1 1-/2 years before I ever played. Partly because I did not have a guitar, partly because I wanted to learn the music and get familiar with the main players.
I bought a Martin and started to go to a session at someone's house for a couple of months to learn the tunes. There was another guitar player who helped me out there. As for the people st the session, they all told me to listern to the music.
I had my guitar at the session to show a friend when I finally got a guitar. The session leader knew I had the guitar with me, and also knew that I had played the set they were about to play. She stopped the session and told me to get my guitar out and play. I was mortified, but sat down and played the set and have never looked back.
First Rule--Do No Harm, I am in total agreement. There are lots of guitar players out there that figure out a few chords and think they are playing ITM.
Rule 2 is only required if the guitar player knows the styles and want sto know the difference. Me, I don't know any other style by Rock and Roll, so this rule makes no difference to me.
Rule 3, I agree. I have spent a lot of time learning tunes and learning to read music. I play the melody on about 15 songs on my 12-stiring. I start the tune with the melody instruments, and then switch to chords.
Which leads to to Rules 3, 4,5, and 6. I play melody in my mind while backing and change my strumming patterns depending on what the melody is doing. So, it is important to vary the strumming patterns, be in syc with other backing instruments, and develop a style. I vary my strumming patterns somewhat through the whole tune, substituting alternative chords for variety.
I don't know if I would consider ITM "eclectic", but it certainly demands that you use your ear and vary chords and strumming to fit what is going on in the moment.
Rules 7, 8 and 9, in total agreement. I would suggest that you consolidate your rules into 5 rules, you don't need 10.
5 Rules have greater impact and distill the essence of what you're trying to do into a very targeted and unabiguous group of session rules for guitar players.
I don't find it divisive with any good musician. And I don't like the term "backer" for this reason. I like to play with people. I'd never say to a good strummer, "can you back me on this tune". It's just not the way it's approached. You say, "can you play this tune with me." Whether you are actually playing the lead melody line or denser structures shouldn't affect your status in an ensemble.
I played guitar from an early age for more than 20 years in styles from thrash to bluegrass. I’ve played Irish fiddle almost exclusively for the last several years but still have a go at the 6-string at home or with friends. I find it a very difficult instrument to play in this style.
One thing that helped me with guitar in This Music was realizing that the guitar is not so much a strict rhythm instrument as an accompanying instrument. As a folk and bluegrass player, I was used to laying down a moving bass line boom-chuck rhythmic engine over which the melody danced. In Irish music this generally works okay on hornpipes and polkas but sounds not so good with reels and jigs. What I think sounds best is when I follow the melody, the individual, asymmetric bounce of each tune. Punctuating the rhythm, driving it home, lifting it – but not trying to establish it. Does this makes sense?
Mactavish - for the most part for Irish music, I don't think a guitar should be driving the tune at all, more complementing & helping it along. For any half-decent tune, all that's needed rhythmically, should be in the tune already. However... in dance band situations or quite often for Scottish music - (depending on who you're accompanying), then the guitarist may in fact be expected to drive the tune.
I have begun to notice distinct differences in the playing at two sessions I regularly attend. Earlier this week I did not play a session and just listened to people I usually play with. I've noticed that the fiddle players bow more heavily and some of the notes are more drawn out changing the rhythm.
At a session I played today, they bow lighter and sometimes much more quickly. At both sessions, the same music is played, so I am comparing tune to tune.
So, at each session the guitars play differently as well. If the melody is being played differently, I have to adjust.
So, if the melody players play differently at different session, what are the rules they are playing by? And, as someone whose day job is to follow rules, sometimes rules are overrated.
Sometimes in a session, there will be tunes going on, and the backer (me perhaps) will be taking a break / listening in a blissful silence / just changing the ambiance a bit by being quiet. One of the melody players might make eye contact and by doing so "invite" me back in.
thats what backers do............the bit that was missing.
No, royalty wouldn't use the third person "him" or "her" when referring to themselves as an individual. It's either the first person plural - "we" - also used by newspaper editors and people with tapeworms - or the indeterminate third person pronoun "one" - as often used by HRH Prince Charles.
Grumblingoldwoman.... taht the fiddler will draw out or stress a note... all the more reason to listen incredibly closely. Not to plough in in chording over and over. To me the biggest joy of backing, accompanying whatever word you like, it catching these moments, when I hear the fiddle doing that, i do my best to be on the same note, on one of the lower heavier strings and draw it out with them, which you can on guitar, also, bend the note a bit when they do... it helps to know the player and the tune of course, but if you know the music real well, you can almost sense when it's coming even when you don't know the person... oh the joys of it all! Those are the WOW moments in the music. You react differently not only to each tune, but to each player. Maybe it shows what a dull life I lead, but these are real high points for me.... and others, when we talk about how "that note" happened and we were all right there on the same page.
When all can play like Alec Finn (Who will be teaching in the Catskills this summer, BTW!) then I may start in some small part agreeing with you Sugar Foot Jack, but my guitars stay! Nothing worse than a loud, off time, out of tune bouzouki, not even a bad guitar... not as in your face, unless truly terrible and a basher, but I've heard too many zouk bashers too.....it's the player not the instrument.
Thanks for all the posts. I will incorporate some of your ideas into my next revision of the Golden Rules. I won't post them at The Session.Org again, but I'll make them available from my band's website, http://www.beggarmen.com. I'll probably put them on blog section our My Space page which is linked to the website. It might be awhile, though...
#5 "If you play a tune 3 times through, you should play it 3 different ways."
I am not sure that this should be a rule, I have nothing against changing the chords, but every single time?
Maybe my opinion is just slanted because most of the people I play with are dance musicians who (very reasonably) think that a strong, steady rhythm is very important, but it seams to me that some steadiness is required to be a good backer.
In truth, it doesn't matter if you're a zouk or guitar player - there are too many thumpers and thrashers of both in sessions who don't seem arsed to learn anything about playing ITM and bulldoze their way through the tunes as if they were playing AC/DC or whatever.
I propose the following adaptations:
1) I am playing music, not a machine.
2) It is not a race, I do not have to get there first.
3) cooperate, it is not about me.
4) No matter how much I can teach, I still have a lot to learn.
5) I am doing this for fun.
Toumi, splendid though your 1 to 10 are, they are really just rules for any instrument playing any kind of music. (Except maybe free Jazz, where planning ahead is disallowed).
Where Keith's 1 to 10 are interesting is they are specific to strumming to diddley tunes. I agree with Jack. The original Number 4 rules the rules. (though knowing it has nothing to do with naming it)
Does accompanyment, backing, whatever the chosen word, always have to be assumed to be only chording, chord after chord etc.? Many assume it does, but players who note around a bit, whether leading up to or away from a chord, join in the melody a bit or a harmony here and there, it makes things more interesting and can still remain non competitive with the tune.
That is obviously not something to quickly teach in a weekend workshop, but when I do a class I always like to offer it up briefly as a possibility, and alternate to constant around and around chording ... we don't have time to delve into it, and many are not ready to learn it right there, as these things are generally multi-level, but to give them something to think about at home while they practice. It also makes things hit home a bit better about having to know the tunes. Just a thought Keith... maybe some would be interested in at least a little display of you doing it. Doesn't have to be over the top or over their heads either... but presented as an option to work on at home.
Rule 1, There are no hard and fast rules, just play well with a steady beat in a way that enhances, not undermines, the melody and the tradition.
Rule 2, If you didn't get that the first time around, read it again. And remember, no amount of rules will get you better, only practice and playing will. So stop reading and start playing.
"Does accompanyment, backing, whatever the chosen word, always have to be assumed to be only chording, chord after chord etc."
If by this you mean strumming chords, then no. However, you might want to consider partial chords, double stops and flatpicking as alternatives. A combination of all these works well, as do bass runs (but not everybody likes these) and picking out bits of the tune. Take your rhythms from the tune, your chords from the tune and don't over-egg the mix.
Listen to as many backers as you can and see the number of ways they accompany a tune. Alec Finn has already been mentioned, but I would suggest getting hold of anything by Planxty, Eoin O'Neill, Dennis Cahill, Cran and Danu - I'm sure others have their own favourites. Note not one of them sits and thrashes out endless strums of chords though.
At the end of the day if we are serious about the music we must remember we are accompanists, and the tune must be given the space it needs to live and breathe otherwise all that is happening is we are rendering it's playing pointless. The tune is the key.
Guitar accompaniment rules
Guitar accompaniment rules
I submitted this discussion yesterday under the title "St. Louis Tionol." A reader suggested that a more specific title would be better and a couple of others mentioned in their comments that they just stumbled onto the thread. So, I've given it a better title. There were some great comments, though, in the poorly titled thread. You can read them here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17119
Here is the original thread:
I've been attending the St. Louis Tionol for the last 5 years, and I'm excited this year to be included among the teachers. I'll teach a beginning Irish guitar accompaniment workshop. One item I'm working on for my students is a set of "Golden Rules" for session guitarists. I want 10 rules, but I only have 9. Perhaps you can help:
1. First, do no harm.
2. Irish guitar accompaniment is different from American folk styles (like old time or bluegrass) both harmonically and rhythmically. Understand those differences.
3. You have to practice and develop technique as much as melody players do.
4. You have to learn tunes. You don't necessarily need to pick the notes on your instrument, but you at least need to know tunes in your head. When you come to that inevitable point in a session where the melody players are trying to figure out the name of a tune they just played, you--as often as anybody else--should be the first to correctly name that tune. Make that a point of pride.
5. Irish guitar accompaniment is improvisational and eclectic. Revel in that. If you play a tune 3 times through, you should play it 3 different ways.
6. Since Irish guitar accompaniment is improvisational and eclectic and there are many, many ways to accompany the same tune, if there are other accompanists, you should take turns playing unless you really know how to work together.
7. Slow airs sound just fine unaccompanied.
8. Develop an understanding of chord theory, including triads, chord substitutions, passing chords, moving bass lines, and suspensions.
9. Develop at least a rudimentary understanding of modality.
Any ideas?
# Posted on March 22nd 2008 by IC Keith
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
10. Once rules 1 through 9 are mastered ... break 'em.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
-It's OK, perhaps even desirable, to sit out the occasional tune, even if it isn't an air. A variation on this is to come in after the first time through on a jig or reel, giving the pure melody a chance to get established.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ayedbl
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I don't know about the second part of rule four. Instead of memorizing tune names I'd concentrate more on technique and such. I do agree with the first part though.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Actually, having read them:
Number 2 is surely redundant. It implies that if you don't know American folk styles, you should equate yourself with them so you can understand the differences. Pointless.
Number 6. I'm confused over the word "eclectic"? You shouldn't be selecting and choosing from various sources of guitar styles. Your only influence should be the tunes.
Number 9. Not strong enough. Should be something more like: "Have an equal understanding of all the modes used."
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I have to agree on llig's #6 and 9... but think it's a matter of wording on#2 perhaps... I think people get the gist of it, essentially be with the music, not on the offbeat, filling in the spaces like in Bluegrass.
On #6, right....the influence should be the tunes, absolutely... but I think Keith means once you have that you can choose the style with which to accompany. It could be finger picked or flat picked, or melodic and soft or strong on the attack. Never compete with the tune or melody player though. My main rule of backing is never be the one noticed, which does not mean you are low volume necessarily, but that you fit in so well and so seamlessly you are not drawing attention. Ideally what you do should add to the melody player to the point where the focus is even more on them. When you stop playing is when they should notice you... like...whoops... something fell out. It's all about the melody player... it's not something for someone with rock star mentality. To me, backing is about humility, offering yourself and your ego up to the tunes, doing what is best for the tune as well as you can, period. And that is the great joy about backing. A good backer too, they could play the tunes if they wanted to, in fact many throw in parts of the tunes when the mood hits. They back because they enjoy it, not all couldn't cut it as a melody player as some think... look at Doyle, Clancy... etc.
On #9 too many just stop at the rudimentary phase... for the serious student, they should want to go well beyond that.... but this is just a weekend workshop, right Keith? There are as many fine points on good backing as there are on good melody playing, and you won't be turning them out on a weekend. Hopefully you will plant some of your great ideas in them though.... and if anyone can, you can Keith! You really get the music at a deep level.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I posted this on the previous thread, so I might as well re-contribute it to this one.....
As an extension to #8 - chord inversions (although sort of linked to triad theory and bass lines). Voice leading as well, each note sounded should have a purpose. Possibly linked into use (and abuse) of open tunings & DADGAD.
Along the lines of #4 -you could also mention something about how tunes can do unexpected things (accidentals etc) so a knowledge of the tunes is essential. Often parts of tunes are not in the same key or mode, if you can hum the tunes you'll know how they change.
#9 - I'd think a more than rudimentary understanding is called for, and needs to be combinable with #8. Possibly you could combine rules #8 & 9?
Another way to express #1 might be: a guitar should always add something to a session, and never detract.
I think #5 & #6 could be combined to something along the lines of: "There's an effectively limitless way to accompany the same tune, allowing for variances in taste, style, tuning, and voicing. So try to vary the way you accompany a tune each time through. And be aware that other accompanists might have entirely different approaches, so you might have to take turns."
I think your potential #10 could be something along the lines of "within a bar of 4/4, 6/8 or whatever, the notes are not equally spaced within the bar. A guitarist should not play uniformly on the beat, else they end up crushing the rhythm of the music, they must be able to move in front of and behind the beat to both compliment the music and enhance it. A guitarist should be able to both maintain a steady tempo, but also be able to react to changes"
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Andy V
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Some good points Iris.
But if you take number as the way you do, it's covered elsewhere. Number 2 is America-centric. Which is fine if you're american, I suppose.
On number 6, Yes, never compete. But that's a general rule for everyone, not just the strummer. Though I do have an issue with never being noticed. You should be influencing the other musicians. The feedback loop of influence and response between all the musicians is vital.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Llig stated "Number 2 is surely redundant. It implies that if you don't know American folk styles, you should equate yourself with them so you can understand the differences. Pointless." Generally I would agree except that I, like most Yanks I'd wager, come to this music via American Folk, Old Time, &/or Bluegrass. And this is going to be a class predominately of Americans I assume (St. Lous, MO). I have to admit that if I'm not paying attention my "Miss McCleod's" can easily slip into "Did You Ever See The Devil, Uncle Joe?"
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ed veras
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Oops,
Cross post there Llig Leahcim
Sorry
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ed veras
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
There was a thread about harmony a few days ago that I posted this on. (I posted quite after the thread had died and it got missed. But it's really quite pertinent to this thread) ...
Playing harmony is well established and has been for some years now where I play. Though I don't make a distinction between what is described as the strummers' harmony and the melody players' harmony. The tunes themselves are harmonic and rhythmic constructions and whether the music follows a single line or a more dense structure of simultaneous layers is merely a didactic distinction.
The divisive nature of the melody players verses the backers is unhelpful. Once you start to recognise the tunes as harmonic structures in their own right, rather than merely lines of unrelated notes, then this division can be melted away. (And, of course, once you start to recognise the tunes as rhythmic structures in their own right, you can do away with your superfluous drummers.)
One of the reasons I love the viola so much in a session is it is designed to bridge the gap between melody and accompaniment.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
OK.. Llig... maybe I misworded... I don't mean totally not noticed, but the focus is the melody... not being an intrusive backer, just my feeling on it, just don't like when the ear goes more to the backer. It ought to blend so well your focus is the melody.
And in the US you do get a lot of crossover from folk and bluegrass, people filling in the off beats. In fact I had a funny experience... not so funny at the time, invited to a party where it ended up mainly Old Timey, and got scolded ... "THIS IS NOT IRISH MUSIC".... and was shown how to hit the off beat... I obliged for fun for a few tunes, but did cut out fairly quickly.
The divisive nature between backers and melody players, interesting thoughts. Do you find it divisive with a good piano backer, a Charlie Lennon for example? I keep telling guitar players to listen to good piano backing, the bits of melody, the harmony bits, the easing in and out of a chord, use a chord for a brief stress note, much like a piano player, rather than sitting on chord after chord, one after the other round and round in a repetative pattern. The piano moves can be applied to guitar quite well, where the backing can be more melody and harmony if desired. Accompaniment with parts of tunes kicked in and harmony can also bridge the gap... perhaps more like a harp would back as well.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I stopped playing guitar for 38 years or so. While I don't like rules (seems against the spirit if the music), I found my approach to the music has worked very well for me. By the way, I agree with most of your "rules" with some modification.
I attended the first session I played for 1 1-/2 years before I ever played. Partly because I did not have a guitar, partly because I wanted to learn the music and get familiar with the main players.
I bought a Martin and started to go to a session at someone's house for a couple of months to learn the tunes. There was another guitar player who helped me out there. As for the people st the session, they all told me to listern to the music.
I had my guitar at the session to show a friend when I finally got a guitar. The session leader knew I had the guitar with me, and also knew that I had played the set they were about to play. She stopped the session and told me to get my guitar out and play. I was mortified, but sat down and played the set and have never looked back.
First Rule--Do No Harm, I am in total agreement. There are lots of guitar players out there that figure out a few chords and think they are playing ITM.
Rule 2 is only required if the guitar player knows the styles and want sto know the difference. Me, I don't know any other style by Rock and Roll, so this rule makes no difference to me.
Rule 3, I agree. I have spent a lot of time learning tunes and learning to read music. I play the melody on about 15 songs on my 12-stiring. I start the tune with the melody instruments, and then switch to chords.
Which leads to to Rules 3, 4,5, and 6. I play melody in my mind while backing and change my strumming patterns depending on what the melody is doing. So, it is important to vary the strumming patterns, be in syc with other backing instruments, and develop a style. I vary my strumming patterns somewhat through the whole tune, substituting alternative chords for variety.
I don't know if I would consider ITM "eclectic", but it certainly demands that you use your ear and vary chords and strumming to fit what is going on in the moment.
Rules 7, 8 and 9, in total agreement. I would suggest that you consolidate your rules into 5 rules, you don't need 10.
5 Rules have greater impact and distill the essence of what you're trying to do into a very targeted and unabiguous group of session rules for guitar players.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Celtic Guitar
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I don't find it divisive with any good musician. And I don't like the term "backer" for this reason. I like to play with people. I'd never say to a good strummer, "can you back me on this tune". It's just not the way it's approached. You say, "can you play this tune with me." Whether you are actually playing the lead melody line or denser structures shouldn't affect your status in an ensemble.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Drive the tune with the strength of your rhythm not strength of volume
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by mactavish
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I played guitar from an early age for more than 20 years in styles from thrash to bluegrass. I’ve played Irish fiddle almost exclusively for the last several years but still have a go at the 6-string at home or with friends. I find it a very difficult instrument to play in this style.
One thing that helped me with guitar in This Music was realizing that the guitar is not so much a strict rhythm instrument as an accompanying instrument. As a folk and bluegrass player, I was used to laying down a moving bass line boom-chuck rhythmic engine over which the melody danced. In Irish music this generally works okay on hornpipes and polkas but sounds not so good with reels and jigs. What I think sounds best is when I follow the melody, the individual, asymmetric bounce of each tune. Punctuating the rhythm, driving it home, lifting it – but not trying to establish it. Does this makes sense?
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by fidkid
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Sounds good to me.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by GDub
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
"Punctuating the rhythm, driving it home, lifting it – but not trying to establish it". Yes, very good that
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I'm with you there fidkid.
Mactavish - for the most part for Irish music, I don't think a guitar should be driving the tune at all, more complementing & helping it along. For any half-decent tune, all that's needed rhythmically, should be in the tune already. However... in dance band situations or quite often for Scottish music - (depending on who you're accompanying), then the guitarist may in fact be expected to drive the tune.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by On Sabbatical
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I have begun to notice distinct differences in the playing at two sessions I regularly attend. Earlier this week I did not play a session and just listened to people I usually play with. I've noticed that the fiddle players bow more heavily and some of the notes are more drawn out changing the rhythm.
At a session I played today, they bow lighter and sometimes much more quickly. At both sessions, the same music is played, so I am comparing tune to tune.
So, at each session the guitars play differently as well. If the melody is being played differently, I have to adjust.
So, if the melody players play differently at different session, what are the rules they are playing by? And, as someone whose day job is to follow rules, sometimes rules are overrated.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by grumblingoldwoman
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Sometimes in a session, there will be tunes going on, and the backer (me perhaps) will be taking a break / listening in a blissful silence / just changing the ambiance a bit by being quiet. One of the melody players might make eye contact and by doing so "invite" me back in.
thats what backers do............the bit that was missing.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Backer
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
BTW, I find I agree with most of what Michael has written in the above posts (as usual)!
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Backer
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Rule 10: Sell your guitar, buy a bouzouki and learn ITM accompaniment on the instrument best suited to it.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
wait...a greek instrument the backing instrument of choice...not! But...I guess you are royalty since your bio is written in the thrid person.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Celtic Guitar
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
No, royalty wouldn't use the third person "him" or "her" when referring to themselves as an individual. It's either the first person plural - "we" - also used by newspaper editors and people with tapeworms - or the indeterminate third person pronoun "one" - as often used by HRH Prince Charles.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: royal wee
...or by thatcher as in: 'we are a grandmother'...
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I don't think Thatcher was ever a newspaper editor ...
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Grumblingoldwoman.... taht the fiddler will draw out or stress a note... all the more reason to listen incredibly closely. Not to plough in in chording over and over. To me the biggest joy of backing, accompanying whatever word you like, it catching these moments, when I hear the fiddle doing that, i do my best to be on the same note, on one of the lower heavier strings and draw it out with them, which you can on guitar, also, bend the note a bit when they do... it helps to know the player and the tune of course, but if you know the music real well, you can almost sense when it's coming even when you don't know the person... oh the joys of it all! Those are the WOW moments in the music. You react differently not only to each tune, but to each player. Maybe it shows what a dull life I lead, but these are real high points for me.... and others, when we talk about how "that note" happened and we were all right there on the same page.
When all can play like Alec Finn (Who will be teaching in the Catskills this summer, BTW!) then I may start in some small part agreeing with you Sugar Foot Jack, but my guitars stay! Nothing worse than a loud, off time, out of tune bouzouki, not even a bad guitar... not as in your face, unless truly terrible and a basher, but I've heard too many zouk bashers too.....it's the player not the instrument.
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
'I don't think Thatcher was ever a newspaper editor ...'
yes i know-that was my point!
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Thanks for all the posts. I will incorporate some of your ideas into my next revision of the Golden Rules. I won't post them at The Session.Org again, but I'll make them available from my band's website, http://www.beggarmen.com. I'll probably put them on blog section our My Space page which is linked to the website. It might be awhile, though...
# Posted on March 23rd 2008 by IC Keith
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
#5 "If you play a tune 3 times through, you should play it 3 different ways."
I am not sure that this should be a rule, I have nothing against changing the chords, but every single time?
Maybe my opinion is just slanted because most of the people I play with are dance musicians who (very reasonably) think that a strong, steady rhythm is very important, but it seams to me that some steadiness is required to be a good backer.
Arlo
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by Nopstavon
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I've never been called royalty before - sod that.
In truth, it doesn't matter if you're a zouk or guitar player - there are too many thumpers and thrashers of both in sessions who don't seem arsed to learn anything about playing ITM and bulldoze their way through the tunes as if they were playing AC/DC or whatever.
Rule 4 rules the rules.
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
I propose the following adaptations:
1) I am playing music, not a machine.
2) It is not a race, I do not have to get there first.
3) cooperate, it is not about me.
4) No matter how much I can teach, I still have a lot to learn.
5) I am doing this for fun.
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by toumi
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
6) be prepared to adapt.
7) Listen
8) Plan ahead
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by toumi
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Toumi, splendid though your 1 to 10 are, they are really just rules for any instrument playing any kind of music. (Except maybe free Jazz, where planning ahead is disallowed).
Where Keith's 1 to 10 are interesting is they are specific to strumming to diddley tunes. I agree with Jack. The original Number 4 rules the rules. (though knowing it has nothing to do with naming it)
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by ...
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Does accompanyment, backing, whatever the chosen word, always have to be assumed to be only chording, chord after chord etc.? Many assume it does, but players who note around a bit, whether leading up to or away from a chord, join in the melody a bit or a harmony here and there, it makes things more interesting and can still remain non competitive with the tune.
That is obviously not something to quickly teach in a weekend workshop, but when I do a class I always like to offer it up briefly as a possibility, and alternate to constant around and around chording ... we don't have time to delve into it, and many are not ready to learn it right there, as these things are generally multi-level, but to give them something to think about at home while they practice. It also makes things hit home a bit better about having to know the tunes. Just a thought Keith... maybe some would be interested in at least a little display of you doing it. Doesn't have to be over the top or over their heads either... but presented as an option to work on at home.
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
Rule 1, There are no hard and fast rules, just play well with a steady beat in a way that enhances, not undermines, the melody and the tradition.
Rule 2, If you didn't get that the first time around, read it again. And remember, no amount of rules will get you better, only practice and playing will. So stop reading and start playing.
# Posted on March 24th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Guitar accompaniment rules
"Does accompanyment, backing, whatever the chosen word, always have to be assumed to be only chording, chord after chord etc."
If by this you mean strumming chords, then no. However, you might want to consider partial chords, double stops and flatpicking as alternatives. A combination of all these works well, as do bass runs (but not everybody likes these) and picking out bits of the tune. Take your rhythms from the tune, your chords from the tune and don't over-egg the mix.
Listen to as many backers as you can and see the number of ways they accompany a tune. Alec Finn has already been mentioned, but I would suggest getting hold of anything by Planxty, Eoin O'Neill, Dennis Cahill, Cran and Danu - I'm sure others have their own favourites. Note not one of them sits and thrashes out endless strums of chords though.
At the end of the day if we are serious about the music we must remember we are accompanists, and the tune must be given the space it needs to live and breathe otherwise all that is happening is we are rendering it's playing pointless. The tune is the key.
# Posted on March 25th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack