I am a fiddle player . . . in a more accurate sense I am a fiddle player who was classically trained. I am wanting to improve upon my technique . .any of it . . I am not too picky as to what sills I acquire as long as I improve. I want to play fiddle music and not classical. Do I need lessons to become a better fiddle player? Alot of fiddle teachers I have been to simply give me music to work on, which is something I can do on my own by listening to recordings and such. If I dont need lessons. . how do I go about becoming better? . . in the technical sense? I feel that at this point in time my technique is limiting my ability to express what I want to express. Any ideas?
thanks
-Anna
Hey Anna, it sounds like you have plenty of classical technique already, yes? If so, then you're OK. If you want to play Irish Traditional music you should immerse yourself in it, find your local sessions, go and listen, listen to the music on your iPod, etc. Drown your ears in the music, fiddle playing specifically. Find people you want to play like, and listen to them. It won't happen right away, there's no way to "just do this little mechanical thing here and presto!"
You really have to absorb the sound and get it in your bones. Your sound classical mechanics will then take over and you will produce the sound you are hearing and wish to emulate.
Anna,
Yes wach me or trish .. And try to listen and pick up the tune
by ear more than dots - also try to put in some of the wee
Twiddles too , after a while you'll find your own . And dont
be afaid to try different styles at first till you find one you like.
And dont be afraid to try some of your own Ideas when you
have the tune Bravely Learnt.. Hope you do well - You will
if you play from you Heart,,
jim,,,
There are teachers in your area that teach by ear, and are pretty darn good. Have you talked with folks at CSU about it yet? I was just there today!! I know that the head of the music dep't is a folk musician. Have you tried Swallowhill?
Learning traditional technique and traditional swing is not particularly easy. Many teachers of traditional music do nothing but teach new tunes, and expect traditional techniques to follow. Technique is often not considered in great detail. As is classical music the sheet music is only an approximation of what ought to be played, and as in classical music the ornamentation is essential to the music (not just an add-on). Yehudi Menuhin wrote that it is very rare for classical violinists to play exactly what is written on the page, but that it occasionally happens and that the results are always dreadful!
One good place to see how some traditional Irish fiddle techniques are executed in fine detail is on Kevin Burke’s two DVDs “Learn to Play Irish Fiddle” (from Homespun Tapes), they’re pretty cheap on Amazon!
I agree that listening to and copying great players is the best way to proceed. A handy way to figure out exactly the structure of the ornaments (as well as the melodic structure) of tunes is by recording the tune using the programme “Audacity” and then slowing it down. Audacity is a free programme and is available here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Those who scoff at the use of technology can safely be ignored. If you have the opportunity of sitting for hours at a time with an aged traditional fiddler, three or four times a week for a couple of years, as I had the great privilege of being able to do, then all is well. If that’s not an option, or if the fiddler on the recording is no longer alive or doesn’t live nearby, then why should you struggle on when technology can help you out?
Furthermore, for staccato playing I’d stick to the top third or top half of the bow (as older players and classical players tend to do). The necessity of playing in cramped conditions in pubs has meant that recently fiddlers tend to play lower on the bow, towards the frog (so their right elbows can avoid hitting others). This makes the problem of over-emphasizing the weak beat more likely, giving the: “do WAH, do WAH” rhythm where the emphasized weak beat totally eclipses the down beat. Horrible!
"A lot of fiddle teachers I have been to simply give me music to work on" ~ banana512
Lots of good suggestions here already, but to add an extra oomph to what wyogal said, living sources are your best first choice, and face-to-face ~ but someone who will exercise your ears and as neddiescotus suggests, give 'technique' consideration and not just the accumulation of tunes. You can always increase your tune count once you have the understanding and technique to breath the music out with an Irish accent, or as a 'fiddler', with that life and as the Cape Bretoners say, 'dirt'... Chase up living sources that are ear-centric, and as just previously suggested, there are some decent DVDs available too, Kevin Burke's included.
Weaning folks off of the sheet can be as challenging as weaning them off of the misconceptions a lot of the classically trained can carry around with them that can get in the way of understanding. You have a good start, the passion and want. You just need the right teacher and opportunities. Good luck with your quest...
Once I had the dubious pleasure of leading a 'teaching' session for beginners, improvers etc.
Inspiration struck me one morning when I had every one put their instrument down and sing the set of tunes I had been trying to teach them. This I had them do for a good 45 minutes, (there were no exceptions, it was not a matter of how well they could sing and I made damn sure every one there opened their mouth) singing the tunes one by one and then as a complete set as they would for a 'dance'.
The improvement was remarkable, the tunes had lift, beat, swing, improvisation and most of all put a smile on everyones faces. Including the dancers when it finally came to it....
I think from what you write you probably have 'technology' to spare as far as technique goes. May I humbly suggest that you take the time to 'live' with the tune until it becomes your 'own' and you both come 'together'. (sounds a bit high falutin' but I don't have a better way of putting it) it's a bit like getting married, sometimes it works out!
There are many, many discussions on this site on the merits of bowing, regional and technical niceties that I can't and won't attempt to go into.
Let your heart be your guide and take your time, the music will still be there long after we're gone.
I wish you well and enjoy
That's another key point c brings up. I learned quite a bit from trying to emulate whistles, flutes and pipes. The phrases that the blowers make when breathing while playing are very informative for a fiddler's own bow phrasing.
Do you play tin whistle? I recommend it. It taught me a lot about the phrasing, even if I end up chucking it and getting my bow when I try to practice longer than a few minutes.
Listen to the latest Grace Notes show: fiddle, concertina and flute, lots of old good tunes, not too fast, fantastic swing.
LIVE music is key, I think; try to find concert or session recordings, or field recordings, if you can.
As was said, listen to different instruments, different players. Seamus Ennis is good for your soul, period.
What personally has helped me was immersing myself in a style - I listened to everything aroundandabout, decided I liked Kerry, and listened to all the o'Keeffe, Murphy, Clifford, and Cronin in existence. Plus, listen to the necessaries, anyone can tell you (especially for fiddle): some people must be heard, like Patrick Kelly, Neilidh Boyle, and James Morrison.
Failing that, find some workshops---there are dozens of them when the weather warms up. And definitely try to hang around good fiddlers---you can usually get them to show you a few things if they see you're really interested---buy them a beer and they're happy.
All that left me smiling through the hacking and the headache... Yes john, I love doing that too, I should not be so shy about it. It works, as does humming or lilting along with music you listen to. I agree about listening to all instruments, including a good bodhran player. It will help you to 'breath' life into the music, the silences are as important as the articulation and the notes. The best listens are always 'solo', raw... There are plenty of those about. I would recommend those much more highly than the groups, though I appreciate what happens in ensemble too, but you'll pick the nuances up better listening to and humming/lilting along with solo artists... That pure edge tends to enter the heart and mind more quickly and lodge there as memory you can draw on as you develop as a player...
And ~ in the presence of a living guide ~ it sets the best, including other valued aspects of this tradition that are just as important if not more than the notes, tunes and twiddles... Best of luck!
the fiddle question . .technique?
the fiddle question . .technique?
I am a fiddle player . . . in a more accurate sense I am a fiddle player who was classically trained. I am wanting to improve upon my technique . .any of it . . I am not too picky as to what sills I acquire as long as I improve. I want to play fiddle music and not classical. Do I need lessons to become a better fiddle player? Alot of fiddle teachers I have been to simply give me music to work on, which is something I can do on my own by listening to recordings and such. If I dont need lessons. . how do I go about becoming better? . . in the technical sense? I feel that at this point in time my technique is limiting my ability to express what I want to express. Any ideas?
thanks
-Anna
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by banana512
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
P.s. What percentage of professional musicians actually went to music school?
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by banana512
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Hey Anna, it sounds like you have plenty of classical technique already, yes? If so, then you're OK. If you want to play Irish Traditional music you should immerse yourself in it, find your local sessions, go and listen, listen to the music on your iPod, etc. Drown your ears in the music, fiddle playing specifically. Find people you want to play like, and listen to them. It won't happen right away, there's no way to "just do this little mechanical thing here and presto!"
You really have to absorb the sound and get it in your bones. Your sound classical mechanics will then take over and you will produce the sound you are hearing and wish to emulate.
In particular, watch Jim:
http://uk.youtube.com/fiddle4u
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Or:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxw7ltE-IJs
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by Pere
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Anna,
Yes wach me or trish .. And try to listen and pick up the tune
by ear more than dots - also try to put in some of the wee
Twiddles too , after a while you'll find your own . And dont
be afaid to try different styles at first till you find one you like.
And dont be afraid to try some of your own Ideas when you
have the tune Bravely Learnt.. Hope you do well - You will
if you play from you Heart,,
jim,,,
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
There are teachers in your area that teach by ear, and are pretty darn good. Have you talked with folks at CSU about it yet? I was just there today!! I know that the head of the music dep't is a folk musician. Have you tried Swallowhill?
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by Wyogal
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Learning traditional technique and traditional swing is not particularly easy. Many teachers of traditional music do nothing but teach new tunes, and expect traditional techniques to follow. Technique is often not considered in great detail. As is classical music the sheet music is only an approximation of what ought to be played, and as in classical music the ornamentation is essential to the music (not just an add-on). Yehudi Menuhin wrote that it is very rare for classical violinists to play exactly what is written on the page, but that it occasionally happens and that the results are always dreadful!
One good place to see how some traditional Irish fiddle techniques are executed in fine detail is on Kevin Burke’s two DVDs “Learn to Play Irish Fiddle” (from Homespun Tapes), they’re pretty cheap on Amazon!
I agree that listening to and copying great players is the best way to proceed. A handy way to figure out exactly the structure of the ornaments (as well as the melodic structure) of tunes is by recording the tune using the programme “Audacity” and then slowing it down. Audacity is a free programme and is available here: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Those who scoff at the use of technology can safely be ignored. If you have the opportunity of sitting for hours at a time with an aged traditional fiddler, three or four times a week for a couple of years, as I had the great privilege of being able to do, then all is well. If that’s not an option, or if the fiddler on the recording is no longer alive or doesn’t live nearby, then why should you struggle on when technology can help you out?
Furthermore, for staccato playing I’d stick to the top third or top half of the bow (as older players and classical players tend to do). The necessity of playing in cramped conditions in pubs has meant that recently fiddlers tend to play lower on the bow, towards the frog (so their right elbows can avoid hitting others). This makes the problem of over-emphasizing the weak beat more likely, giving the: “do WAH, do WAH” rhythm where the emphasized weak beat totally eclipses the down beat. Horrible!
You also might find some useful ideas here (including recommended recordings of great fiddlers) : http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16631
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by dsndfkjasf
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
"A lot of fiddle teachers I have been to simply give me music to work on" ~ banana512
Lots of good suggestions here already, but to add an extra oomph to what wyogal said, living sources are your best first choice, and face-to-face ~ but someone who will exercise your ears and as neddiescotus suggests, give 'technique' consideration and not just the accumulation of tunes. You can always increase your tune count once you have the understanding and technique to breath the music out with an Irish accent, or as a 'fiddler', with that life and as the Cape Bretoners say, 'dirt'... Chase up living sources that are ear-centric, and as just previously suggested, there are some decent DVDs available too, Kevin Burke's included.
Weaning folks off of the sheet can be as challenging as weaning them off of the misconceptions a lot of the classically trained can carry around with them that can get in the way of understanding. You have a good start, the passion and want. You just need the right teacher and opportunities. Good luck with your quest...
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Learning one tune well and by ear is better than a dozen or more just by the notes....
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Once I had the dubious pleasure of leading a 'teaching' session for beginners, improvers etc.
Inspiration struck me one morning when I had every one put their instrument down and sing the set of tunes I had been trying to teach them. This I had them do for a good 45 minutes, (there were no exceptions, it was not a matter of how well they could sing and I made damn sure every one there opened their mouth) singing the tunes one by one and then as a complete set as they would for a 'dance'.
The improvement was remarkable, the tunes had lift, beat, swing, improvisation and most of all put a smile on everyones faces. Including the dancers when it finally came to it....
I think from what you write you probably have 'technology' to spare as far as technique goes. May I humbly suggest that you take the time to 'live' with the tune until it becomes your 'own' and you both come 'together'. (sounds a bit high falutin' but I don't have a better way of putting it) it's a bit like getting married, sometimes it works out!
There are many, many discussions on this site on the merits of bowing, regional and technical niceties that I can't and won't attempt to go into.
Let your heart be your guide and take your time, the music will still be there long after we're gone.
I wish you well and enjoy
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by john knoss
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
That's another key point c brings up. I learned quite a bit from trying to emulate whistles, flutes and pipes. The phrases that the blowers make when breathing while playing are very informative for a fiddler's own bow phrasing.
Do you play tin whistle? I recommend it. It taught me a lot about the phrasing, even if I end up chucking it and getting my bow when I try to practice longer than a few minutes.
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
http://www.rte.ie/lyricfm/trad/
Listen to the latest Grace Notes show: fiddle, concertina and flute, lots of old good tunes, not too fast, fantastic swing.
LIVE music is key, I think; try to find concert or session recordings, or field recordings, if you can.
As was said, listen to different instruments, different players. Seamus Ennis is good for your soul, period.
What personally has helped me was immersing myself in a style - I listened to everything aroundandabout, decided I liked Kerry, and listened to all the o'Keeffe, Murphy, Clifford, and Cronin in existence. Plus, listen to the necessaries, anyone can tell you (especially for fiddle): some people must be heard, like Patrick Kelly, Neilidh Boyle, and James Morrison.
I guess...listen! A lot!
--DtM
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
Go to Ireland.
Failing that, find some workshops---there are dozens of them when the weather warms up. And definitely try to hang around good fiddlers---you can usually get them to show you a few things if they see you're really interested---buy them a beer and they're happy.
But I would try for Ireland if you can!
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by kennedy
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
All that left me smiling through the hacking and the headache... Yes john, I love doing that too, I should not be so shy about it. It works, as does humming or lilting along with music you listen to. I agree about listening to all instruments, including a good bodhran player. It will help you to 'breath' life into the music, the silences are as important as the articulation and the notes. The best listens are always 'solo', raw... There are plenty of those about. I would recommend those much more highly than the groups, though I appreciate what happens in ensemble too, but you'll pick the nuances up better listening to and humming/lilting along with solo artists... That pure edge tends to enter the heart and mind more quickly and lodge there as memory you can draw on as you develop as a player...
# Posted on March 12th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: the fiddle question . .technique?
And ~ in the presence of a living guide ~ it sets the best, including other valued aspects of this tradition that are just as important if not more than the notes, tunes and twiddles... Best of luck!
# Posted on March 13th 2008 by ceolachan