Why is it that when you listen to the constant stream of some bands in Irish music they all begin to sound very bland and samey?
All trying to do the same thing it seems same old over arranged sound.
Begley and Cooney had a sound bigger than most rock bands and were the greatest ever music act I have ever seen or witnessed. De Dannan were remarkable too. Capercaillie and McGoldrick, Sharon Shannon and Session A9 are top of the tree also. They all set the standard in my opinion for Celtic music today.
Just wish bands would be more lifelike and take few more risks:0
Maybe you'd be less bored if you listened to Irish trad instead of Celt-pop bands.
If you listen to the big mass-market stuff...um...yes...it will all sound "very bland and samey." That's how you get a big audience and make money, by playing to the lowest common denominator and keeping the sound the same.
I have listened to Irish trad and am an expert on it for many years but its just getting sooo sh*te and boring, Scottish music is so much more exciting at present
PS brown creeper its not a wind up my man, its merely a healthy discussion to find out why bands seem to love arranging so much and mixing down without any decent reverbs, I can think of one band in particular but its not fair to mention names as its only my opinion.
When you listen to Meiteal by Cooney and Begley it has great energy, soul, feel, rhythm, superb tunes that stay in your head forever and simply the best singer youl ever likley to listen to in Irish and then the top off the icing on the cake a guitarist/producer whom can play better than most trad wanabee guitarists with his little finger, hes so good he doesnt even need to try:0
Lovely playing by Lori Danny, but I was thinking about sending the Glesca Polis round tae sort him oot..... Now benhal.1, I don't think you'd be wise to repeat what you said earlier to these boys....
Bloody hell Danny - next time I walk down Jamaica St. to go to Sound Control, I'll be a bit more wary. Yes folks, some alternative Glesca culture for you there...
And when Danny visited us in Cambridge I said "take care" when he made his way back through our mean streets. I mean, someone might have assaulted him with a hard question about Wittgenstein or something.
Back to the original topic.... In my experience, people who sugest one particular genre of music is "samey" are those who haven't listened to it properly or not immersed themselves it (through choice or otherwise).
They usually tend to enjoy it on a superficial level and will appreciate the bigger "performing names" and not necessarily all the nuances involved.
Of course, some of it can still be samey or boring but that's a different scenariio.
"all that diddly music sounds the same"
However, I don't think that is what our man B+C4ever is saying - he appears to be immersed in the music all right but is complaining about lack of verve in some of the newer bands.
I don't have this problem because I have only scraped the surface of the bands and musicans that are around today, let alone some of the great music I hear at sessions
Is there anyone who gives you that now? Do Cooney and Begley still give you that?
I take my music where I can find it - while travelling in Australia last month I got out see *Andy Irvine* and also *Martin Hayes & Dennis Cahill*. I got quite a buzz from both concerts, though neither are exactly my cup of tea, but both have a strong vision of how they want their music to be and blandness certainly wasn't the problem.
This has been a great read so far! Anyways, back to the topic. I understand the boring, boring attitude; you aren't looking deep enough though, or you haven't the depth to. Listen to the likes of Junior Crehan, what does he do for you? Probably little I expect. What about 45 minutes of Patsy Touhey? As a piper, that really pushes my button. You can hear one tune played one way and then the same tune played different by somebody else, but its the same tune. For me this lies at the heart of Irish Traditional music, as opposed to scripted pipeband music like the GHB, which I also love, but thats different again. I think you are confusing entertainment and the vitality of the performer, with the material that is being performed, if you know what I mean.
Since this isn't a windup...
Can you give me some pointers about what to listen out for?
Please stick to Irish Music, as I'm not too sure about Scottish.
I'm not talking about the bands, (but feel free to mention Begley&cooney again) but what exactly your 'Many Years' have taught you to look out for...
IE how can many years, 'being an expert' etc help you come to a conclusion that 'Capercaillie and McGoldrick, Sharon Shannon and Session A9 are top of the tree'
I want to be in the same league as you, so a few pointers would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Great post.
'I just would love to hear the same excitement again that I heard from watching Cooney and Begley play between 1995-1998 when I saw them.'
This bit is particularly bizarre, not least because the poster was 'watching ... when (he) saw them' (and whyever not?), but rather more so because hairy and square-y hardly played together during the years he mentions.
'And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.'
You don't have to go back to the 90's to hear great music. Begley and Cooney were one of the great duets in Irish music but what's even better now is Jim Murray playing with Seamus Begley. .
Jim is the new Cooney and has taken it to a whole new level he is currently the most innovative guitarist in Irish music.
I'm sure you'll agree as you have already listed Mike McGoldrick and Sharon Shannon as "top of the tree" and he is their guitarist of choice.
girllovestrad you aint got a clue what your on about I am sorry to say. Steve Cooney started that whole style and also taught Jim to play. All that Jim and other guitarists in that style as good as they are is nothing that Steve did yaesr ago,
Steve invented it and to say that Jim Murray is the most innovative guitarist is just total sh*te Im afraid as Cooney did it 20 years ago.
No one is the new Cooney..... Cooney is Cooney
and sorry but he is untouchable in my and many other peoples minds.
This bit is particularly bizarre, not least because the poster was 'watching ... when (he) saw them' (and whyever not?), but rather more so because hairy and square-y hardly played together during the years he mentions.
total sh*te also , where were you then macwhatever ya name when they played about 40 gigs between those years at least
This post is very odd! The bands that B&C4ever mentions all have highly arranged music. So what's the point? Or is this just a wind-up!
If you don 't like good Irish music that features arrangement then don't buy it. No one is forcing you to listen to it. I, for one do like to hear music that has more than just the melody and a few chords. Maybe I'm not an "expert", I'm just a music fan but I like to think that there's something out there for everyone.
Begley+Cooney forever, as a guitarist of many years, I agree somewhat with your sentiments regarding Mr.Cooney, a true original in irish music as you say, but if you understand his playing at all, you'll agree his best work is behind him. In his absence I have to agree with girllovestrad that Jim Murray has taken over the mantle. Steve has had many admirers and copiers - the "Steve Cloneys" - but Jim Murray seems to be the only one to have really "got" what Cooney's music is all about. He has taken the best of Steve's playing and brought it in a new direction. I've now seen him on several occasions with both Mike McGoldrick and Sharon Shannon and while he's quite brilliant with both of them, it's in the Begley gig where he really shines. It's much more subtle in terms of better sound and chords than steve yet he has all the power and excitement of Steve at his peak. I must confess I generally go to begley gigs for the sole purpose of catching Jim's backing.
I am starting to think that this is a pointless thread. This has turned into a platform for B&C 4 ever/Killarney rules (will probably have a different name tomorrow) to rant on about Steve Cooney and throw insults and bad language at people like me who were foolish enough to reply to his initial post.
If we all loved the same things then the world would be a very dull place and that would be "boring, boring".
I am entitled to say that I prefer Begley and Murray just as you are entitled to say you prefer Begley and Cooney. It's all a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong here.
I have obviously touched a raw nerve by mentioning Jim Murray and this surprises me as it was you who mentioned Sharon Shannon,Mike McGoldrick,Seamus Begley,Capercaille and DeDannan and Jim plays with 3 out of this 5 in fact 3 out of 4 as De Dannan are no longer together.
If you read through my original post properly you would find that for the most part I was agreeing with you.
Likewise with your last post I agree that there are a lot of players who are not a patch on Cooney but this can not be said of Murray.
As for Edey,Sanders and Galvin I must confess to not knowing two of these but I have heard Edey with Frankie Gavin at Celtic Connections a couple of years back and was very dissapointed with what I heard. I thought Edey overplayed throughout the gig and displayed none of the subtleties that either Cooney or Murray would have.
You seem to think that technical wizardry equals real guitar playing and that's where our opinions differ.Natural talent, good taste and a feel for the music are what I look for in a player.
Boring boring
Boring boring
Why is it that when you listen to the constant stream of some bands in Irish music they all begin to sound very bland and samey?
All trying to do the same thing it seems same old over arranged sound.
Begley and Cooney had a sound bigger than most rock bands and were the greatest ever music act I have ever seen or witnessed. De Dannan were remarkable too. Capercaillie and McGoldrick, Sharon Shannon and Session A9 are top of the tree also. They all set the standard in my opinion for Celtic music today.
Just wish bands would be more lifelike and take few more risks:0
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
~
Is this for real?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Boring boring
?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Boring boring
I agree.
In fact all Irish trad music is boring and sounds the same.
What the hell am i doing on this website anyway?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
Maybe you'd be less bored if you listened to Irish trad instead of Celt-pop bands.
If you listen to the big mass-market stuff...um...yes...it will all sound "very bland and samey." That's how you get a big audience and make money, by playing to the lowest common denominator and keeping the sound the same.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Boring boring
Isn't that cool? It's how you know it's not Mongolian or Bolivian traditional music, for example.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Boring boring
W
I
N
D
U
P
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Brown Creeper
Re: Boring boring
I have listened to Irish trad and am an expert on it for many years but its just getting sooo sh*te and boring, Scottish music is so much more exciting at present
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
"Scottish music"
Is that some kind of oxymoron? Like 'military intelligence' or 'married life'?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Boring boring
PS brown creeper its not a wind up my man, its merely a healthy discussion to find out why bands seem to love arranging so much and mixing down without any decent reverbs, I can think of one band in particular but its not fair to mention names as its only my opinion.
When you listen to Meiteal by Cooney and Begley it has great energy, soul, feel, rhythm, superb tunes that stay in your head forever and simply the best singer youl ever likley to listen to in Irish and then the top off the icing on the cake a guitarist/producer whom can play better than most trad wanabee guitarists with his little finger, hes so good he doesnt even need to try:0
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
Im not sure about oxymoron? guessing married life isnt as exciting as the current Scots music scene whoch totally rocks
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
" "Scottish music"
Is that some kind of oxymoron? Like 'military intelligence' or 'married life'?"
Careful benhal.1 - we might just send a pipe band round to play in front of your house in the wee small hours....
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ron P
Re: Boring boring
Oh goody! I could do with something to send me to sleep.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Boring boring
I think Ben is goin' deef in his auld age. Just to wake you up out of your senile torpor Ben, Have a blast of young Lori:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zKS8bB-dVv4
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
Oh, alright. That was 'Oh Kay ...' I suppose ...
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Boring boring
Lovely playing by Lori Danny, but I was thinking about sending the Glesca Polis round tae sort him oot..... Now benhal.1, I don't think you'd be wise to repeat what you said earlier to these boys....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOjHvu_Nbc
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ron P
Re: Boring boring
I think there are two factors at work.
Trad is now far more "commercial" (Read Safe)
You now have Trad Music Courses - all the young players being taught by the same few tutors in the same style to play "commercial" music.
Same story throughout most music genres - I feel there will always be more interresting colloquial bands, just gotta find 'em.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: Boring boring
i don't think the polis would do much good. look at these feckin eegits
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pbfuuikwg
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
Bloody hell Danny - next time I walk down Jamaica St. to go to Sound Control, I'll be a bit more wary. Yes folks, some alternative Glesca culture for you there...
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ron P
Re: Boring boring
Why do you think live in safe, suburban, Catford, Sarf London?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
...*I* live...
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
And why I don't like the idea of living in cities anymore....
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ron P
Re: Boring boring
And when Danny visited us in Cambridge I said "take care" when he made his way back through our mean streets. I mean, someone might have assaulted him with a hard question about Wittgenstein or something.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by RichardB
Re: Boring boring
Back to the original topic.... In my experience, people who sugest one particular genre of music is "samey" are those who haven't listened to it properly or not immersed themselves it (through choice or otherwise).
They usually tend to enjoy it on a superficial level and will appreciate the bigger "performing names" and not necessarily all the nuances involved.
Of course, some of it can still be samey or boring but that's a different scenariio.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by John J.
Re: Boring boring
"all that diddly music sounds the same"
However, I don't think that is what our man B+C4ever is saying - he appears to be immersed in the music all right but is complaining about lack of verve in some of the newer bands.
I don't have this problem because I have only scraped the surface of the bands and musicans that are around today, let alone some of the great music I hear at sessions
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Bren
Re: Boring boring
I just would love to hear the same excitement again that I heard from watching Cooney and Begley play between 1995-1998 when I saw them
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
Is there anyone who gives you that now? Do Cooney and Begley still give you that?
I take my music where I can find it - while travelling in Australia last month I got out see *Andy Irvine* and also *Martin Hayes & Dennis Cahill*. I got quite a buzz from both concerts, though neither are exactly my cup of tea, but both have a strong vision of how they want their music to be and blandness certainly wasn't the problem.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Bren
Re: Boring boring
So which one are you, Begley or Cooney?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Boring boring
This has been a great read so far! Anyways, back to the topic. I understand the boring, boring attitude; you aren't looking deep enough though, or you haven't the depth to. Listen to the likes of Junior Crehan, what does he do for you? Probably little I expect. What about 45 minutes of Patsy Touhey? As a piper, that really pushes my button. You can hear one tune played one way and then the same tune played different by somebody else, but its the same tune. For me this lies at the heart of Irish Traditional music, as opposed to scripted pipeband music like the GHB, which I also love, but thats different again. I think you are confusing entertainment and the vitality of the performer, with the material that is being performed, if you know what I mean.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by eddie
Re: Boring boring
I like Junior Crehan.
We play his tunes every night.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Boring boring
Since this isn't a windup...
Can you give me some pointers about what to listen out for?
Please stick to Irish Music, as I'm not too sure about Scottish.
I'm not talking about the bands, (but feel free to mention Begley&cooney again) but what exactly your 'Many Years' have taught you to look out for...
IE how can many years, 'being an expert' etc help you come to a conclusion that 'Capercaillie and McGoldrick, Sharon Shannon and Session A9 are top of the tree'
I want to be in the same league as you, so a few pointers would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Great post.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Boring boring
Ha ha Richard. Actually I did get chatting to someone, who said he had been struggling with Heiddeger.
I said "Heiddeger? Who the fvck is she?"
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Boring boring
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table...
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Boring boring
What a puzzling message! I wonder who it's from.
'I just would love to hear the same excitement again that I heard from watching Cooney and Begley play between 1995-1998 when I saw them.'
This bit is particularly bizarre, not least because the poster was 'watching ... when (he) saw them' (and whyever not?), but rather more so because hairy and square-y hardly played together during the years he mentions.
'And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.'
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Boring boring
You don't have to go back to the 90's to hear great music. Begley and Cooney were one of the great duets in Irish music but what's even better now is Jim Murray playing with Seamus Begley. .
Jim is the new Cooney and has taken it to a whole new level he is currently the most innovative guitarist in Irish music.
I'm sure you'll agree as you have already listed Mike McGoldrick and Sharon Shannon as "top of the tree" and he is their guitarist of choice.
# Posted on March 8th 2008 by girllovestrad
Re: Boring boring
girllovestrad you aint got a clue what your on about I am sorry to say. Steve Cooney started that whole style and also taught Jim to play. All that Jim and other guitarists in that style as good as they are is nothing that Steve did yaesr ago,
Steve invented it and to say that Jim Murray is the most innovative guitarist is just total sh*te Im afraid as Cooney did it 20 years ago.
No one is the new Cooney..... Cooney is Cooney
and sorry but he is untouchable in my and many other peoples minds.
Give the man some credit.....
# Posted on March 10th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
This bit is particularly bizarre, not least because the poster was 'watching ... when (he) saw them' (and whyever not?), but rather more so because hairy and square-y hardly played together during the years he mentions.
total sh*te also , where were you then macwhatever ya name when they played about 40 gigs between those years at least
check ya facts ya egit
# Posted on March 10th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
This post is very odd! The bands that B&C4ever mentions all have highly arranged music. So what's the point? Or is this just a wind-up!
If you don 't like good Irish music that features arrangement then don't buy it. No one is forcing you to listen to it. I, for one do like to hear music that has more than just the melody and a few chords. Maybe I'm not an "expert", I'm just a music fan but I like to think that there's something out there for everyone.
# Posted on March 10th 2008 by bradybunch
Re: Boring boring
Begley+Cooney forever, as a guitarist of many years, I agree somewhat with your sentiments regarding Mr.Cooney, a true original in irish music as you say, but if you understand his playing at all, you'll agree his best work is behind him. In his absence I have to agree with girllovestrad that Jim Murray has taken over the mantle. Steve has had many admirers and copiers - the "Steve Cloneys" - but Jim Murray seems to be the only one to have really "got" what Cooney's music is all about. He has taken the best of Steve's playing and brought it in a new direction. I've now seen him on several occasions with both Mike McGoldrick and Sharon Shannon and while he's quite brilliant with both of them, it's in the Begley gig where he really shines. It's much more subtle in terms of better sound and chords than steve yet he has all the power and excitement of Steve at his peak. I must confess I generally go to begley gigs for the sole purpose of catching Jim's backing.
# Posted on March 10th 2008 by McClatchey
Re: Boring boring
Well I am sorry I have to say that i needless to say disagree totally with the above....
its samey safe and like all over irish trad guitarists ive heard not a patch on excitement of Cooney
by the way did you also ever hear the likes of Tim Edey Jon Sanders or Mike Galvin??
they can give anyone a huge run for their money and also posess technical wizardry that you would be astounded at, I mean Real guitar playing....
# Posted on March 10th 2008 by jazz fan
Re: Boring boring
I am starting to think that this is a pointless thread. This has turned into a platform for B&C 4 ever/Killarney rules (will probably have a different name tomorrow) to rant on about Steve Cooney and throw insults and bad language at people like me who were foolish enough to reply to his initial post.
If we all loved the same things then the world would be a very dull place and that would be "boring, boring".
I am entitled to say that I prefer Begley and Murray just as you are entitled to say you prefer Begley and Cooney. It's all a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong here.
I have obviously touched a raw nerve by mentioning Jim Murray and this surprises me as it was you who mentioned Sharon Shannon,Mike McGoldrick,Seamus Begley,Capercaille and DeDannan and Jim plays with 3 out of this 5 in fact 3 out of 4 as De Dannan are no longer together.
If you read through my original post properly you would find that for the most part I was agreeing with you.
Likewise with your last post I agree that there are a lot of players who are not a patch on Cooney but this can not be said of Murray.
As for Edey,Sanders and Galvin I must confess to not knowing two of these but I have heard Edey with Frankie Gavin at Celtic Connections a couple of years back and was very dissapointed with what I heard. I thought Edey overplayed throughout the gig and displayed none of the subtleties that either Cooney or Murray would have.
You seem to think that technical wizardry equals real guitar playing and that's where our opinions differ.Natural talent, good taste and a feel for the music are what I look for in a player.
# Posted on March 11th 2008 by girllovestrad