I know this comes up perennially, but is there any point trying to use a microphone with fiddle when you're playing a noisy gig? Say a hall with 200 lawyers in it, all hooting and guffawing at high volumes, simultaneous with set dance instruction going on, bars, buffets, and other things.
I am the default sound guy for an informal group. Typically we have 3 fiddles, along with several other, far less problematic instruments, from a soundman's perspective. Right now we just have regular mics on stands. It's very difficult in these types of shindigs. Lots of crowd noise coming thru the mics, quite tough to find and eliminate feedbacky frequencies on the EQ without getting a weird sound. The upshot is, the fiddles feedback before desired volume, unless you REALLY work the board and EQ, which I'm getting sick of doing. I'm thinking of 3 options. If someone with oodles of experience can tell me which is best, I'd be thrilled.
1) Get some more gadgets to run thru the board. Noise Gate, Compressor/Limiter, "Feedback Destroyer" etc.
2) Make the fiddlers get pickups, which might not sound so great. And some you have to remove to play acoustically!
3) Make the fiddlers get those little bridge mics from AKG or AudioTechnica, which might STILL feedback before desired volume at this type of gig.
Once again, I know the topic of mic vs. pickup comes up frequently. Still doesn't seem conclusive though. But what about option 1? Anybody tried that with much success?
I feel your pain--just take a look at some of my YouTube clips, if you don't believe me.
It is exactly as you say, for fiddles: microphone makes better sound, but pickup is *much* less prone to feedback. As for extra processing gear, I think would change the tone so much, you might as well use a pickup.
For noisy gigs, I use an inexpensive Kremona pickup from electricviolinshop.com. They rigged it with a "carpenter jack" that takes a 1/4 inch cable--but it does need a pre-amp to sound half decent. And a bit of shaping on the bridge for a proper fit. But it is easily removeable, if you want to bother. (I think I can hear a difference, acoustically, when it's in place.)Over good speakers, it sounds pretty OK. But recordings directly from the mixer show how inferior it is to a good mic.
I have heard reports of bad feeback problems from those clip-on bridge mics, although that may be a placement issue. I have a headset mic jury-rigged in the same way, and it feeds back something awful if it is pointed directly at the F-hole.
Oh, and remind the fiddlers that if the audience is blathering away like that, they are not listening closely enough to tell the difference, anyway. So the heck with 'em, eh? Whatever gets the job done, save the good stuff for people who appreciate it.
m, you obviously know what you are talking about. And you have answered your own question.
Yes, a half decent mike will sound better than the best pick up. But the best pick ups are pretty good, and they are not as expensive as the best mikes. Be sure to get decent pre-amps also
I think a pickup and a microphone together might be a good idea. The pickup allows for high gain and the microphone will give a better sound and you can mix the two together. A more powerful amp would give you more gain, also mic placement is very important - away from the speakers. Foldback monitors being too loud can give feedback too.
I don't think a clip-on mic is much different to a mic on a stand in terms of it's likelihood of feeding back. Some pickups provide high gain but sound awful, some require major surgery on the fiddle but might be worth it. I think the Kurmann soundpost pickup is used by a lot of people.
According to Altan's website they use Zeta fiddles which are made with pickups already in but sound good acoustically too.
I don't think gates and compressors would make much of a difference but a good graphic equaliser would, gives more control over the overall tone and would enable you to isolate in more detail frequencies that are giving you trouble.
Would 200 lawyers actually give a fig what it sounds like anyway?
I guess there's a danger of all 200 of them suing you if they get deafened by feedback - other than that, I agree with those points above about "if they're not listening anyway, just use something that gets the job done".
From the simple sound perspective, a high ambient noise environment calls out for non-acoustic pickups (ie, electromagnetic or piezo) wherever possible. Granted, the sound of some of these is not as natural as a microphone, but the high noise level tells you that it's not such a big deal, doesn't it? Nobody in that room is really listening, so don't sweat it. This doesn't mean you need to get rid of all microphones -getting three microphones off the fiddles means that if you need to mic up a banjo or a bodhran or some such thing, you're probably okay.
Now, if you're in a room full of people talking it's good to remember that you DON'T want to boost the volume over the talk - if they're there to talk, let them! Trying to drown them out will give you a terrible sound and them a terrible sore throat, and nobody's happy. Just get the level up to the point where there's music in the room and let the audience decide what it wants to do with it.
We had mega problems with this and not just with fiddles.. whistles & flutes were also nightmare to manage. In the end we gave up chasing the EQ and bought a Yamaha EMX 5016CF powered mixer. This has a built in feedback suppressor and a brilliant gizmo that allows the accousitcs of the room to be sampled against which it will automatically tune the eq to suit...!!!
As far as the feedback problem, have you tried moving the speakers? If you put the speakers farther away from your mic you not only reduce the feedback but you broadcast farther into the room. Also what kind of mic do you have? Condenser mics pick up sound from all around, so they are more likely to feedback, where as a instrument mic will only pick up sound from right in front of it.
Thanks for the comments. I'm starting to lean towards trying the pickup.
I use dynamic mics, not condenser. I try to place speakers far away. Unfortunately in some situations, where there are dancers flopping around and kids in the vicinity, and the place is packed with potential klutzes, you can't very well put them out in the middle of the floor. Someone might get a speaker upside the head.
As far as writing it off, and those who say, who cares about this type of audience, I don't know. Not every venue with music needs to be a strict listening concert.
And people are strange when it comes to non-concert environments with music. They seem to like it, without being attentive at the same time. For example, you go to a noisy bar with friends. They are playing music very loud on a house PA system, or maybe it's karaoke god forbid! At the same, people are trying to talk to you, and they are actually screaming in your ear. Now, someone like mickray or me would probably say, "Why don't we just go outside if we want to talk? This is ridiculus!" But not everyone is like that.
In that atmosphere, people actually want the music to be a bit above the crowd (or even blasting over the crowd if it's rock or pop), so they can socialize, party, whatever, and then have a listen for a few minutes when they feel so inclined. I have even noticed that audiences for Irish music in Ireland are much less attentive than audiences in the U.S. if we're talking about bar/hall scenarios.
Anyway, if people do want the aforementioned atmosphere, a big, raucus, noisy, fun crowd, with the music coming out as dominant sound, it would be nice to be at least capable of saying, no problem, we can do that. Otherwise, I feel like the DJ's, and the karaokes, and the pop bands have a one-up on us. They can provide that. We should be able to as well, personal preference about it aside.
It's a fender, the #3 (allegedly top of their line). Sounds pretty good through a Fender Acousatronic amp. Definitely an electric sound, more suited to jazz and rock, but more than adequate for certain noisy Irish gigs. The body is chambered, meaning it's hollowed out, but no sound holes. So it's fairly lightweight, and the chambering seems to give a better tone than solidbodies I've played. And no feedback. For a little over $600, it does the job. I don't need an electric fiddle often enough to justify spending more.
Interesting, glad you are happy with it. That hollow body has got to be lighter and more comfortable than the solid-body types. Although I just saw a video clip of a Yamaha "silent violin" that sounded more acoustic-like than most of the electrics I have heard... might have been just really good EQ tweaking and speakers, though. And I imagine the Yamaha costs more than yours did. Speaking of which--pickups can be had for a lot less than 600 bucks, if that's an issue.
At the other end of the scale, there's always the Zeta model that apparently is good enough for Altan....
I don't like the idea of mounting pick ups on an acoustic.
The top end Yamaha electrics cost about double what I paid for my Fender, and the basic tone is about the same. So, yes, it depends a lot on the EQ and speakers.
The Zeta Strados bridge provides decent "acoustic" sound in an electric fiddle. Again, about twice what I paid for my Fender, and I'd rather use a mic on an acoustic for acoustic amplification.
My own personal preference is to play a nice acoustic violin, with a good condenser mic--or without any amplification at all--for people who want to listen. But as the song goes, you can't always get what you want.
If anybody's interested in hearing a good example of the "acoustic w/pickup sound":
Mickray, your clip on youtube sounds really good, and it seems like the volume is up there. I don't see a stand, what are you using there? A clip on condenser? I think it might be possible to get better volume out of those because regular mics seem to pick up more ambient noise.
Which video clip? I tried a variety of things over the past year--and finally gave up and quit doing that gig, to be honest. It might have been the AKG headset mic I took apart and clipped to the fiddle. (Good sound, but a bit awkward--a thin black cable for tripping over, and a yellow clothespin for that hastily-cobbled-together look.)
I ended up using an inexpensive Kremona pickup (about 40 bucks, plus a bit extra for the 1/4 inch jack). Zina thinks it sounds as good as a mic on a stand, but I respectfully disagree.
Yeah, my personal preference is plain acoustic--no amplification.
But sometimes circumstances demand louditude. As much as I avoid those situations, it's better, when stuck with it, to have some control over your sound and to not be tethered to a mic on a stand. My two cents.
I love my Zeta, it's a solid body, but with a warm tone. It's just a plain, educator model, but I like it.
The Yamaha is nice, too. I tried a Rave, didn't like that at all.
I once had an 80's era solid-body Zeta, and later a Jensen. Both quite electric-sounding, of course, but nice instruments. Just too heavy, for my taste. OK for occasional playing, but too hard on the jaw and shoulder for constant use, I think. But YMMV, of course.
Condenser microphones are probably too sensitive for a live sound situation, better with dynamic mics.
A good solution for a pickup if you don't want something permanently attached to the fiddle is the Fiddle Pro from Read Instrument Microphones. It attaches to the C bout with a rubbery clamp thing that doesn't mark the instrument. They are now making adjustable clamps so that you don't have to measure your fiddle to fit it. http://www.riml.biz/
Hey fiddlebabe. Someone earlier, or maybe on a different thread, was confusing the dynamic vs. condenser issue, with the unidirectional vs. cardioid/hypercardioid issue. The directionality of the mic is a separate issue from the mechanism by which it transfers sound.
I have heard that condensers are too sensitive for noisy gigs. I've also heard that mics with a very limited pick up range, that don't pick up from all around them) are preferable to unidirectional or omnidirectional mics that pick up from all over.
Now that that's cleared up. The fiddle pro website says that the microphone they use is hypercardioid, but it does not say that it's dynamic. Most of those types of mics are condenser, so I had assumed the fiddlepro was condenser too. And I am hesitant to try the little condenser mics because of the feedback issue, although it seems to me they are significantly better than a mic on a stand.
By the way, I also find that website very suspicious becuase there is no technical data on the microphones, which all the mic companies provide. I suspect they are just taking an akg or audiotechnica mic, putting a clip mechanism onto it, and selling it for 1.5 times the price.
I have also discovered that you are employed by that company, which does not mean you are lying or wrong about the quality of the product, by any means. But you did not mention it.
A good quality condenser mike (dynamic, hypercardioid ). This is easily controlled by the sound man (watch montor feedback).
I've tried all other options (except electic fiddle, which is totally
unacceptable to me). Good luck
Pick-ups: Some are not too terrible with a pre-amp, and can be just about as loud as you want.
Fishman pickup $150
LR Baggs preamp $160
Pickup called "the realist" which is made in Michigan, I think, and sounds quite a bit more like an actual fiddle: $250
Condenser mics:
Audio-technica Pro70, really a clip-on vocal mic for speaking, but not too terrible if clipped onto the fiddle strings behind the bridge. Hard to get a very high volume before feedback, especially in noisy situations. $160
Audio-technica ATM350, specifically for fiddle, and other similar instruments. More sensitive than the Pro70, with a flatter frequency response. You can get a fairly high volume, but I haven't tested it in very high noise situations. $250
So far, the last option, an expensive condenser mic, is the best, although the pickup might be necessary as a backup for very noisey pubs, etc.
By the way, condenser mics cannot be dynamic, as far as I know. Condenser vs. Dynamic refers to the membrane by which the sound is delivered into the system, which can only be one way or the other.
The ATM350 condenser mic was recommended to me to get the best acoustic sound from the fiddle. I had the opportunity to experiment with one, and discovered that attaching it with the velcro violin mount to the strings behind the bridge resulted in amplyfying every breath of mine, even with a mini windscreen attached. And with it attached with the miniclamp-gooseneck to the corner of my chinrest, I found that it had changed position every time I went to play another tune -- seemed to sag either away from or toward the instrument when I held my fiddle on my knee during breaks.
Can anyone with experience with the ATM350 offer detailed advice on optimum attachment and placement? Thanks!
Looking for some sound sound advice
Looking for some sound sound advice
Hi,
I know this comes up perennially, but is there any point trying to use a microphone with fiddle when you're playing a noisy gig? Say a hall with 200 lawyers in it, all hooting and guffawing at high volumes, simultaneous with set dance instruction going on, bars, buffets, and other things.
I am the default sound guy for an informal group. Typically we have 3 fiddles, along with several other, far less problematic instruments, from a soundman's perspective. Right now we just have regular mics on stands. It's very difficult in these types of shindigs. Lots of crowd noise coming thru the mics, quite tough to find and eliminate feedbacky frequencies on the EQ without getting a weird sound. The upshot is, the fiddles feedback before desired volume, unless you REALLY work the board and EQ, which I'm getting sick of doing. I'm thinking of 3 options. If someone with oodles of experience can tell me which is best, I'd be thrilled.
1) Get some more gadgets to run thru the board. Noise Gate, Compressor/Limiter, "Feedback Destroyer" etc.
2) Make the fiddlers get pickups, which might not sound so great. And some you have to remove to play acoustically!
3) Make the fiddlers get those little bridge mics from AKG or AudioTechnica, which might STILL feedback before desired volume at this type of gig.
Once again, I know the topic of mic vs. pickup comes up frequently. Still doesn't seem conclusive though. But what about option 1? Anybody tried that with much success?
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I feel your pain--just take a look at some of my YouTube clips, if you don't believe me.
It is exactly as you say, for fiddles: microphone makes better sound, but pickup is *much* less prone to feedback. As for extra processing gear, I think would change the tone so much, you might as well use a pickup.
For noisy gigs, I use an inexpensive Kremona pickup from electricviolinshop.com. They rigged it with a "carpenter jack" that takes a 1/4 inch cable--but it does need a pre-amp to sound half decent. And a bit of shaping on the bridge for a proper fit. But it is easily removeable, if you want to bother. (I think I can hear a difference, acoustically, when it's in place.)Over good speakers, it sounds pretty OK. But recordings directly from the mixer show how inferior it is to a good mic.
I have heard reports of bad feeback problems from those clip-on bridge mics, although that may be a placement issue. I have a headset mic jury-rigged in the same way, and it feeds back something awful if it is pointed directly at the F-hole.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Oh, and remind the fiddlers that if the audience is blathering away like that, they are not listening closely enough to tell the difference, anyway. So the heck with 'em, eh? Whatever gets the job done, save the good stuff for people who appreciate it.
;>}
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
If I was in a room with 200 lawyers, I would have feedback screaming with such intensity that their ears would bleed and I would triple my fee.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by strayaway
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
m, you obviously know what you are talking about. And you have answered your own question.
Yes, a half decent mike will sound better than the best pick up. But the best pick ups are pretty good, and they are not as expensive as the best mikes. Be sure to get decent pre-amps also
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I think a pickup and a microphone together might be a good idea. The pickup allows for high gain and the microphone will give a better sound and you can mix the two together. A more powerful amp would give you more gain, also mic placement is very important - away from the speakers. Foldback monitors being too loud can give feedback too.
I don't think a clip-on mic is much different to a mic on a stand in terms of it's likelihood of feeding back. Some pickups provide high gain but sound awful, some require major surgery on the fiddle but might be worth it. I think the Kurmann soundpost pickup is used by a lot of people.
According to Altan's website they use Zeta fiddles which are made with pickups already in but sound good acoustically too.
I don't think gates and compressors would make much of a difference but a good graphic equaliser would, gives more control over the overall tone and would enable you to isolate in more detail frequencies that are giving you trouble.
Would 200 lawyers actually give a fig what it sounds like anyway?
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Fiddlebabe
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I guess there's a danger of all 200 of them suing you if they get deafened by feedback - other than that, I agree with those points above about "if they're not listening anyway, just use something that gets the job done".
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
From the simple sound perspective, a high ambient noise environment calls out for non-acoustic pickups (ie, electromagnetic or piezo) wherever possible. Granted, the sound of some of these is not as natural as a microphone, but the high noise level tells you that it's not such a big deal, doesn't it? Nobody in that room is really listening, so don't sweat it. This doesn't mean you need to get rid of all microphones -getting three microphones off the fiddles means that if you need to mic up a banjo or a bodhran or some such thing, you're probably okay.
Now, if you're in a room full of people talking it's good to remember that you DON'T want to boost the volume over the talk - if they're there to talk, let them! Trying to drown them out will give you a terrible sound and them a terrible sore throat, and nobody's happy. Just get the level up to the point where there's music in the room and let the audience decide what it wants to do with it.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
We had mega problems with this and not just with fiddles.. whistles & flutes were also nightmare to manage. In the end we gave up chasing the EQ and bought a Yamaha EMX 5016CF powered mixer. This has a built in feedback suppressor and a brilliant gizmo that allows the accousitcs of the room to be sampled against which it will automatically tune the eq to suit...!!!
Not cheap at around £ 700 but a brill tool.
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D450962%252526CTID%25253D227800,00.html
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by weebag
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
As far as the feedback problem, have you tried moving the speakers? If you put the speakers farther away from your mic you not only reduce the feedback but you broadcast farther into the room. Also what kind of mic do you have? Condenser mics pick up sound from all around, so they are more likely to feedback, where as a instrument mic will only pick up sound from right in front of it.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Nopstavon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
If you have access to an electric fiddle...that might work well.
I have one that I play in church every sunday, and it works really well. It's not an expensive one either, I think it was only about $300....
Anyway, that might be a solution to your problem.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Bryn
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Thanks for the comments. I'm starting to lean towards trying the pickup.
I use dynamic mics, not condenser. I try to place speakers far away. Unfortunately in some situations, where there are dancers flopping around and kids in the vicinity, and the place is packed with potential klutzes, you can't very well put them out in the middle of the floor. Someone might get a speaker upside the head.
As far as writing it off, and those who say, who cares about this type of audience, I don't know. Not every venue with music needs to be a strict listening concert.
And people are strange when it comes to non-concert environments with music. They seem to like it, without being attentive at the same time. For example, you go to a noisy bar with friends. They are playing music very loud on a house PA system, or maybe it's karaoke god forbid! At the same, people are trying to talk to you, and they are actually screaming in your ear. Now, someone like mickray or me would probably say, "Why don't we just go outside if we want to talk? This is ridiculus!" But not everyone is like that.
In that atmosphere, people actually want the music to be a bit above the crowd (or even blasting over the crowd if it's rock or pop), so they can socialize, party, whatever, and then have a listen for a few minutes when they feel so inclined. I have even noticed that audiences for Irish music in Ireland are much less attentive than audiences in the U.S. if we're talking about bar/hall scenarios.
Anyway, if people do want the aforementioned atmosphere, a big, raucus, noisy, fun crowd, with the music coming out as dominant sound, it would be nice to be at least capable of saying, no problem, we can do that. Otherwise, I feel like the DJ's, and the karaokes, and the pop bands have a one-up on us. They can provide that. We should be able to as well, personal preference about it aside.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
If I were considering a pick up for my fiddle, I'd just buy an electric fiddle.
Which is what I did. It sounds better than any acoustic with a pick up, and there are no feedback problems.
When I want a better acoustic sound through amplification, I use a clip-on mic on my good acoustic fiddle.
A roomful of loud lawyers would get to hear my electric fiddle.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Hey Will--what kind of electro-fiddle did you end up with?
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
It's a fender, the #3 (allegedly top of their line). Sounds pretty good through a Fender Acousatronic amp. Definitely an electric sound, more suited to jazz and rock, but more than adequate for certain noisy Irish gigs. The body is chambered, meaning it's hollowed out, but no sound holes. So it's fairly lightweight, and the chambering seems to give a better tone than solidbodies I've played. And no feedback. For a little over $600, it does the job. I don't need an electric fiddle often enough to justify spending more.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Interesting, glad you are happy with it. That hollow body has got to be lighter and more comfortable than the solid-body types. Although I just saw a video clip of a Yamaha "silent violin" that sounded more acoustic-like than most of the electrics I have heard... might have been just really good EQ tweaking and speakers, though. And I imagine the Yamaha costs more than yours did. Speaking of which--pickups can be had for a lot less than 600 bucks, if that's an issue.
At the other end of the scale, there's always the Zeta model that apparently is good enough for Altan....
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I don't like the idea of mounting pick ups on an acoustic.
The top end Yamaha electrics cost about double what I paid for my Fender, and the basic tone is about the same. So, yes, it depends a lot on the EQ and speakers.
The Zeta Strados bridge provides decent "acoustic" sound in an electric fiddle. Again, about twice what I paid for my Fender, and I'd rather use a mic on an acoustic for acoustic amplification.
All boils down to personal preferences....
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
My own personal preference is to play a nice acoustic violin, with a good condenser mic--or without any amplification at all--for people who want to listen. But as the song goes, you can't always get what you want.
If anybody's interested in hearing a good example of the "acoustic w/pickup sound":
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_211_1_aidan_burke/
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Mickray, your clip on youtube sounds really good, and it seems like the volume is up there. I don't see a stand, what are you using there? A clip on condenser? I think it might be possible to get better volume out of those because regular mics seem to pick up more ambient noise.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Which video clip? I tried a variety of things over the past year--and finally gave up and quit doing that gig, to be honest. It might have been the AKG headset mic I took apart and clipped to the fiddle. (Good sound, but a bit awkward--a thin black cable for tripping over, and a yellow clothespin for that hastily-cobbled-together look.)
I ended up using an inexpensive Kremona pickup (about 40 bucks, plus a bit extra for the 1/4 inch jack). Zina thinks it sounds as good as a mic on a stand, but I respectfully disagree.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Yeah, my personal preference is plain acoustic--no amplification.
But sometimes circumstances demand louditude. As much as I avoid those situations, it's better, when stuck with it, to have some control over your sound and to not be tethered to a mic on a stand. My two cents.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Absolutely. Loud situation plus mic on stand equals pain in neck!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I'm looking forward to revisiting this thread after a spate of upcoming gigs leading toward St. Pat's. Will report back here on various options tried.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I love my Zeta, it's a solid body, but with a warm tone. It's just a plain, educator model, but I like it.
The Yamaha is nice, too. I tried a Rave, didn't like that at all.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
I once had an 80's era solid-body Zeta, and later a Jensen. Both quite electric-sounding, of course, but nice instruments. Just too heavy, for my taste. OK for occasional playing, but too hard on the jaw and shoulder for constant use, I think. But YMMV, of course.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by John Galt
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Condenser microphones are probably too sensitive for a live sound situation, better with dynamic mics.
A good solution for a pickup if you don't want something permanently attached to the fiddle is the Fiddle Pro from Read Instrument Microphones. It attaches to the C bout with a rubbery clamp thing that doesn't mark the instrument. They are now making adjustable clamps so that you don't have to measure your fiddle to fit it.
http://www.riml.biz/
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by Fiddlebabe
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
Hey fiddlebabe. Someone earlier, or maybe on a different thread, was confusing the dynamic vs. condenser issue, with the unidirectional vs. cardioid/hypercardioid issue. The directionality of the mic is a separate issue from the mechanism by which it transfers sound.
I have heard that condensers are too sensitive for noisy gigs. I've also heard that mics with a very limited pick up range, that don't pick up from all around them) are preferable to unidirectional or omnidirectional mics that pick up from all over.
Now that that's cleared up. The fiddle pro website says that the microphone they use is hypercardioid, but it does not say that it's dynamic. Most of those types of mics are condenser, so I had assumed the fiddlepro was condenser too. And I am hesitant to try the little condenser mics because of the feedback issue, although it seems to me they are significantly better than a mic on a stand.
Still trying to figure this out.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
By the way, I also find that website very suspicious becuase there is no technical data on the microphones, which all the mic companies provide. I suspect they are just taking an akg or audiotechnica mic, putting a clip mechanism onto it, and selling it for 1.5 times the price.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by m_gavin
I have also discovered that you are employed by that company, which does not mean you are lying or wrong about the quality of the product, by any means. But you did not mention it.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by m_gavin
Oops take that back. I meant to say, your friend owns the company, and you made the website.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
A good quality condenser mike (dynamic, hypercardioid ). This is easily controlled by the sound man (watch montor feedback).
I've tried all other options (except electic fiddle, which is totally
unacceptable to me). Good luck
# Posted on March 17th 2008 by hauke
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
So far, I have tried:
Pick-ups: Some are not too terrible with a pre-amp, and can be just about as loud as you want.
Fishman pickup $150
LR Baggs preamp $160
Pickup called "the realist" which is made in Michigan, I think, and sounds quite a bit more like an actual fiddle: $250
Condenser mics:
Audio-technica Pro70, really a clip-on vocal mic for speaking, but not too terrible if clipped onto the fiddle strings behind the bridge. Hard to get a very high volume before feedback, especially in noisy situations. $160
Audio-technica ATM350, specifically for fiddle, and other similar instruments. More sensitive than the Pro70, with a flatter frequency response. You can get a fairly high volume, but I haven't tested it in very high noise situations. $250
So far, the last option, an expensive condenser mic, is the best, although the pickup might be necessary as a backup for very noisey pubs, etc.
By the way, condenser mics cannot be dynamic, as far as I know. Condenser vs. Dynamic refers to the membrane by which the sound is delivered into the system, which can only be one way or the other.
So agreeing with hauke so far.
# Posted on March 18th 2008 by m_gavin
Re: Looking for some sound sound advice
The ATM350 condenser mic was recommended to me to get the best acoustic sound from the fiddle. I had the opportunity to experiment with one, and discovered that attaching it with the velcro violin mount to the strings behind the bridge resulted in amplyfying every breath of mine, even with a mini windscreen attached. And with it attached with the miniclamp-gooseneck to the corner of my chinrest, I found that it had changed position every time I went to play another tune -- seemed to sag either away from or toward the instrument when I held my fiddle on my knee during breaks.
Can anyone with experience with the ATM350 offer detailed advice on optimum attachment and placement? Thanks!
# Posted on April 8th 2008 by John Henry