The beginning of my very first fiddle lesson went something like this:
"Hi, TD&M. Here's your fiddle. Here is your bow. Here's how to hold the fiddle. Here's how to hold the bow. Now, forget the left hand; it's all about the bowing."
A year or so later, I got together with two friends - a fellow baby fiddler from the music school where I learn, and a new violinist from out of town - to play. The None of us had been playing more than two years, so we all sounded like beginners, but two us sounded like beginner fiddlers, and the third sounded like a beginner violinist. (We were all playing Irish tunes.) Neither of us fiddlers was doing any fancy left-hand ornamentation, and the violinist wasn't shifting; the in sound lay in the bowing. The violinist played more precisely; the fiddlers played with stronger beats.
Leaving aside the actual words of the subject for a moment, can I just point out that the YouTube guy who was used as an illustration of how to play *really* isn't (at least from this sample) someone whose playing should be used as an example of how to play ITM? Or anything ...
I was gonna say that too Ben. Though I think the posting of the example was useful in that it it showed the poster up for not really knowing what he was talking about, and therefor enabled us to dismiss it.
This wifey has lovely bowing. If you really concentrate, you can hear her quite clearly over those horrid wet boxes. It's a lovely lesson on accenting the down beat on hornpipes and not just that awful predictable dreaded back beat.
Following on from a discussion I posted earlier http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16895
I would like to point out to that pedantic poster we all know (llig leahcim) that nowhere in my comment did I say that the link showed how ITM should be played, I did however say that he played better that me..... and he does. The reason I posted him in my comment was (as I stated) I was merely thinking out loud so to speak and wasnt actually initiating a discussion.
If you want my opinion of how ITM should be played follow these links, and in future read a comment properly before you insult someone.
And PS, wouldn't it be more in your line to offer help or an explaination to someone who may not have as much knowledge as yourself instead of ridiculing them. This is a tradition passed on from one person to another, not an axclusive fraternity where knowledge is used as a means to degrade others.
Great clips SS - I was fortunate enough a few years ago at Willie Week to have both Tommy Peoples and James Kelly taking the class together for 4 days - it was magic and an experience I'll never forget.
As for the other thing - you need the flak jacket and helmet if you stick your head above the parapet here these days! Which is why I can rarely be ar5ed...
Ah come off it ... you trying to get me barred? ... again? ...
You post a link to a pretty awful player with the premise that Irish fiddling is ALL in the bowing. And now you post links of James Kelly and Tommy Peoples, two of the best snappy roll players in the business ... You are not helping your cause here.
Anyway, great clips though, thanks. I remember being took to a concert above a pub in Dublin by the two Kelly brothers when I was kid. One of those defining musical moments.
Jesus I'ld hate to get anyone barred. no, I'm only pointing out that I wasn't using the original link as an example of how I think ITM should be played (although I disagree that he was "pretty awful") I was merely acknowledging that he was, and is a much better player than I am.
I dont mind when I'm taken up the wrong way, happens a lot, but I dont like when I am misunderstood and its used to insult me. Thats all.
Ah actually Michael in my humble opinion it is.
Yeah the left hand is extremely important but its the bowing that gives the tune its lift.
Just look at Kevins wrist... thats what makes a player great.
You can bow like a robot and hit all the right notes with perfect intonation and all but in the end if your bowing sucks.. so do you.
Contrast fiddle playing with piping. The fiddle is so much easier to play than the pipes precisely because of the bow. With a bow you have the ability to nuance the attack and timing. You have the availability to disguise sloppy or even down right dull left hand playing. Just like the fellow does in your very first clip
But with the pipes, with a constant stream of air, you must articulate the tune with only the placement of the notes. With the equivalent of only your left hand on the fiddle.
Of course, the skill of the fiddle is having your left hand working as successfully as a really good piper. And then adding what you can do with the bow on top of that.
On the other hand, Michael, (a rare occasion of disagreement), poor bowing will surely mask any ability that may exist in the fingering department. I've seen several examples of that in sessions - often they are players who have come to the fiddle from a fretted melody instrument, clearly know a lot of tunes well, and exactly where to place their fingers; but when it comes to bowing, then oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - lack of coordination between fingers and bow, a dreadful tone that is weak and usually "glassy", and often a distressing propensity to use one bow stroke per note on all possible occasions (probably a hang-over from using the pick on their other instrument). One and all, they are urgently in need of one-to-one instruction from a good teacher if they're going to improve - it's the only way they're going to acquire "the ability to nuance the attack and timing". And, of course, this isn't going to be done in five minutes.
Not really a disagreement there Trev. Yes, poor bowing will mask poor and good fingering. But that's a heck of a long way from saying master the bowing and you're there.
But the whole argument over treating the bowing and the fingering as separate entities is just not how fiddle music is played in practice anyway.
(though I will take issue with your example of people coming to a fiddle from a fretted instrument. They don't really know the tunes, they only know what notes they'd be playing with their pic and frets. Whole tracts of the genre are missing. The never know any more about where to place their fingers than where/when to bow)
The way I see it is this. A good classical player could come along a learn trad. They could have the best left hand in the music world but unless they know how to bow properly and have the appropriate wrist action they are gonna sound like a classical player playing trad. its as simple as that. Once again... its the bowing that gives the music its lift. and its the lift that makes the music. Without the lift you may aswell be listening to a MIDI.
If you think that having the best left hand in the (classsical) music world helps in any way twards having good diddley fingering you are sadly ignorant
I don't mean any disrespect when I say "ignorant", I don't mean it in an insulting way. I just get the impression from your postings that you are not aware of what the left hand does in good diddling.
Bowing is *ever* so important. Left hand is *ever* so important. Putting them together is the devil's own job at times. But if you haven't got all three of those things, plus a bit more, you can't play ITM on fiddle.
That said, I endorse absolutely everything that Michael has said above.
It seems a shame that he should be so often right, doesn't it?
I do understand the importance of the left hand. After all its the left hand that is not only responsible for intonation but also for cuts, rolls and grace notes etc, but I still think that the 'magic' of the music comes from the bowing.
Thats just my opinion though.
That's like saying a ferrari with wheels but no engine is still gonna look great, but a ferrari with an engine but no wheels is not gonna look so great.
Neither will actually work.
And you didn't respond to the piping analogy. Are you of the opinion that there can be no 'magic' in piping?
I actually think that the pipes are the most magical instrument. But comparing pipes to a fiddle is a bit of a stretch.
Its like comparing a strawberry to a spud. Yeah you can eat them both but thats about it.
The thing is, all the sounds of the pipes comes from the fingering, but you dont just have to lift your fingers or cover the holes you can roll your fingers off the holes etc . I'm sure there are other techniques I could use as examples but I dont know much about the playing techniques of the pipes. But I dont think its just a case of lifting your fingers and covering the holes.
And thats the way i see it with the fiddle, you dont just hit the notes and saw the sh*t out of them, your bowing has to be good too.
You concede that your bowing has to be good "too".
But with the pipes, you do actually just lift your fingers and cover the holes. Though as you say, that's not the whole story, it's how and when you lift your fingers and cover holes. Your example of rolling your fingers off holes is not just analogous to sliding up to notes on a fiddle finger board, it is exactly that.
You say you can't compare pipes and fiddle. but I'd like you to re-think this. Go back to it and listen to how a good piper plays diddley music. The music is essentially the same. The same notes. the same rolls and cuts and crans, the same variations, the same staccato tripletty runs, the same sliding between notes. The same tunes.
I think you are getting hung up on the fiddle being an entity in itself. You need to widen your attitude and try to concentrate on the music being the entity. A telling thing from you is that you keep saying "look" at people's bowing. You need to do less looking and more listening.
I remember as a kid hearing for the first time the fabulous duet of reels from the fiddle and pipes of James Kelly and Liam O'Flynn on the Planxty record Words and Music. I remember looking at the sleeve notes and seeing James Kelly's name on the set, but when I listened, all I could hear was the pipes, I just assumed that the fiddle must be well down in the mix. Then I had an epiphany of a revelation. The fiddle is more or less exactly the same volume as the pipes, it's just that the music is so complete you can't slide a razor blade between it.
Believe me savage when I say I'm not trying to be pedantic here, I'm trying to help.
Yeah I can see that Michael. And thats exactly what I want.
I sincerely apreciate your input here. If I am ignorant (in the literal sence) I want to be informed.
I do get your point that I look at peoples bowing. The thing is, I only study someones bowing after I have heard them play. I can imediately hear the difference between a moderate player and a good one, and when I watch them the only thing I can see different is the bowing.
That's because you often litterally can't see the fingers of the left hand, they move that fast. Goood left hand fingers aren't gonna look any different from crap ones
True, I guess I'm just getting frustrated because I have been really practicing my left hand and am really pleased with my progress. But my playing is still novice and I blame my bowing. I know that if I can just sorrt out my bowing, my playing will be so much better.
Its all in the bowing aint it.
Its all in the bowing aint it.
I have come to the conclusion that playing this music well really boils down to bowing.
I'm still learning, granted I'm getting there, but I have lots of work to do on my wrist.
Meanwhile I'll llok at people on you tube who are better than me... like this guy
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-NH74ptUDyU
No real discussion here, just felt like sharing.
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by session savage
That was meant to be look not llok
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by session savage
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
The fingers hit the notes, but it is the bow that makes the music.
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by Fiddleshed
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Hmm ... the style sounds like a cross between classical and something vaguely American ...
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Bowing, rhythm, intonation, ability to listen, love of music...
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by west-coaster
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
"I have come to the conclusion that playing this music well really boils down to bowing."
I guess pipers are pretty much f'ed, huh? : P
--DtM
# Posted on March 1st 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
No it aint.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
No it isn't. I bow to no man.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
session savage
The bow is your - signature
jim,,
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
It's all in the courtesy!
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
I was thinking of that one too, c, but I couldn't remember how to spell it. Have we had scraping yet?
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
The beginning of my very first fiddle lesson went something like this:
"Hi, TD&M. Here's your fiddle. Here is your bow. Here's how to hold the fiddle. Here's how to hold the bow. Now, forget the left hand; it's all about the bowing."
A year or so later, I got together with two friends - a fellow baby fiddler from the music school where I learn, and a new violinist from out of town - to play. The None of us had been playing more than two years, so we all sounded like beginners, but two us sounded like beginner fiddlers, and the third sounded like a beginner violinist. (We were all playing Irish tunes.) Neither of us fiddlers was doing any fancy left-hand ornamentation, and the violinist wasn't shifting; the in sound lay in the bowing. The violinist played more precisely; the fiddlers played with stronger beats.
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Leaving aside the actual words of the subject for a moment, can I just point out that the YouTube guy who was used as an illustration of how to play *really* isn't (at least from this sample) someone whose playing should be used as an example of how to play ITM? Or anything ...
# Posted on March 2nd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
I was gonna say that too Ben. Though I think the posting of the example was useful in that it it showed the poster up for not really knowing what he was talking about, and therefor enabled us to dismiss it.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
But to balance a negative comment:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=OacB9CywjmE&NR
This wifey has lovely bowing. If you really concentrate, you can hear her quite clearly over those horrid wet boxes. It's a lovely lesson on accenting the down beat on hornpipes and not just that awful predictable dreaded back beat.
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Nice link - that music rolls along like a river. I've never noticed anyone else playing with such a taut bow (not a criticism, just an observation).
# Posted on March 3rd 2008 by west-coaster
I'm not letting this one go.
Following on from a discussion I posted earlier
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16895
I would like to point out to that pedantic poster we all know (llig leahcim) that nowhere in my comment did I say that the link showed how ITM should be played, I did however say that he played better that me..... and he does. The reason I posted him in my comment was (as I stated) I was merely thinking out loud so to speak and wasnt actually initiating a discussion.
If you want my opinion of how ITM should be played follow these links, and in future read a comment properly before you insult someone.
1 http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1K5BCtLY8
2 http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jHqFlS3gNMs
And PS, wouldn't it be more in your line to offer help or an explaination to someone who may not have as much knowledge as yourself instead of ridiculing them. This is a tradition passed on from one person to another, not an axclusive fraternity where knowledge is used as a means to degrade others.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
I don't see anything wrong with that video. I rather enjoyed it actually!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by rob_handel
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Great clips SS - I was fortunate enough a few years ago at Willie Week to have both Tommy Peoples and James Kelly taking the class together for 4 days - it was magic and an experience I'll never forget.
Which is why I can rarely be ar5ed...
As for the other thing - you need the flak jacket and helmet if you stick your head above the parapet here these days!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Rhod
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Yeah, Rhod, these are two guys I would love to meet. lucky you!!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
James Kelly In a Word { oh! Hell} lol-
My comment added=
1 http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1K5BCtLY8
jim,,,
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Tommy Peoples
You dont need to go to this link -to see what I wrote=
2 http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jHqFlS3gNMs
Simply The Best...
jim,,,
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Well, I love Tommy People, but James is an adopted son of Florida, oh man, do I have to choose one? No? Whew!
...and have no fear Savage, just call your boy here and I'll inject some stupefying optimism fer ya.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
ssssssss
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Cheers SWFL
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Absolutely bluudy brilliant! OOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
He did post a link though, to balance out the negativity. That's constructive no?
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Ah come off it ... you trying to get me barred? ... again? ...
You post a link to a pretty awful player with the premise that Irish fiddling is ALL in the bowing. And now you post links of James Kelly and Tommy Peoples, two of the best snappy roll players in the business ... You are not helping your cause here.
Anyway, great clips though, thanks. I remember being took to a concert above a pub in Dublin by the two Kelly brothers when I was kid. One of those defining musical moments.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by ...
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Jesus I'ld hate to get anyone barred. no, I'm only pointing out that I wasn't using the original link as an example of how I think ITM should be played (although I disagree that he was "pretty awful") I was merely acknowledging that he was, and is a much better player than I am.
I dont mind when I'm taken up the wrong way, happens a lot, but I dont like when I am misunderstood and its used to insult me. Thats all.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Sorry Savage
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by ...
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
No worries Michael.
Anyway I finished that fiddle I posted about a while back.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16250/comments#comment336824
You were wondering what it would sound like, I will post a video in the near future and you can see for yourself that he is a better player than me
I am pleased to say however that the fiddle sounds much better than I expected.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Wonderful playing!
I didn't know that you could play a cross-tuned fiddle in ITM, around here only the hillbilly players do that.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Nopstavon
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Oh.
Is that it then?
Michael says sorry, and savage accepts apology. Not much of an argument that, was it?
I'm not letting this one go, indeed.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Danny, you f*ckin sh*t stirrer
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Jesus christ Michael, my concentration span isn't as long as yours!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Dr. Dow
I'm letting this one go.
S.S. your description of Daniel is accurate.
But you cannot fault him for pointing out the obvious.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
I am glad to see that SS is not going to be like the "other" guy who won't let things go...
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
*Now* we're getting somewhere...............
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Rudall the time
Letting go.
The 'other' guy.
Would that be a rather excitable lad who is thesession.org's
favourite punching bag. This thread seems to be wandering.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
You shouldn't describe yourself thus, Muse. You're far too modest.
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Rudall the time
Letting go.
This is beginning to sound like A Pee Wee Herman skit.
At the end of it all it's just a coupla' fools looking for the root cellar.
Peace!
# Posted on March 4th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
http://xkcd.com/386/
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by Georgi
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
PJ Hernon? that's a bit harsh.
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Just keep posting these vids! LOL
Thank you very much.
# Posted on March 5th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Aren't those two YouTube links just great. Thanks SS.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
enough already ...
Is it all in the bowing?
No it aint.
Listen to the left hands of James Kelly and Tommy Peoples in those clips and tell me it's ALL in the bowing.
Sorry savage, it ain't
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ...
Re:What is the name of this thread?
more . . .
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Did you hear about the one-handed fiddler?
For him, it really was all in the bowing.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Ah actually Michael in my humble opinion it is.
Yeah the left hand is extremely important but its the bowing that gives the tune its lift.
Just look at Kevins wrist... thats what makes a player great.
You can bow like a robot and hit all the right notes with perfect intonation and all but in the end if your bowing sucks.. so do you.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=WjhQubdPRh8
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go.
Nope, sorry mate, it just so isn't.
Contrast fiddle playing with piping. The fiddle is so much easier to play than the pipes precisely because of the bow. With a bow you have the ability to nuance the attack and timing. You have the availability to disguise sloppy or even down right dull left hand playing. Just like the fellow does in your very first clip
But with the pipes, with a constant stream of air, you must articulate the tune with only the placement of the notes. With the equivalent of only your left hand on the fiddle.
Of course, the skill of the fiddle is having your left hand working as successfully as a really good piper. And then adding what you can do with the bow on top of that.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
On the other hand, Michael, (a rare occasion of disagreement), poor bowing will surely mask any ability that may exist in the fingering department. I've seen several examples of that in sessions - often they are players who have come to the fiddle from a fretted melody instrument, clearly know a lot of tunes well, and exactly where to place their fingers; but when it comes to bowing, then oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - lack of coordination between fingers and bow, a dreadful tone that is weak and usually "glassy", and often a distressing propensity to use one bow stroke per note on all possible occasions (probably a hang-over from using the pick on their other instrument). One and all, they are urgently in need of one-to-one instruction from a good teacher if they're going to improve - it's the only way they're going to acquire "the ability to nuance the attack and timing". And, of course, this isn't going to be done in five minutes.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Not really a disagreement there Trev. Yes, poor bowing will mask poor and good fingering. But that's a heck of a long way from saying master the bowing and you're there.
But the whole argument over treating the bowing and the fingering as separate entities is just not how fiddle music is played in practice anyway.
(though I will take issue with your example of people coming to a fiddle from a fretted instrument. They don't really know the tunes, they only know what notes they'd be playing with their pic and frets. Whole tracts of the genre are missing. The never know any more about where to place their fingers than where/when to bow)
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Hmmm. Not sold yet...
The way I see it is this. A good classical player could come along a learn trad. They could have the best left hand in the music world but unless they know how to bow properly and have the appropriate wrist action they are gonna sound like a classical player playing trad. its as simple as that. Once again... its the bowing that gives the music its lift. and its the lift that makes the music. Without the lift you may aswell be listening to a MIDI.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by session savage
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
If you think that having the best left hand in the (classsical) music world helps in any way twards having good diddley fingering you are sadly ignorant
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
I don't mean any disrespect when I say "ignorant", I don't mean it in an insulting way. I just get the impression from your postings that you are not aware of what the left hand does in good diddling.
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Bowing is *ever* so important. Left hand is *ever* so important. Putting them together is the devil's own job at times. But if you haven't got all three of those things, plus a bit more, you can't play ITM on fiddle.
That said, I endorse absolutely everything that Michael has said above.
It seems a shame that he should be so often right, doesn't it?
# Posted on March 6th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
I do understand the importance of the left hand. After all its the left hand that is not only responsible for intonation but also for cuts, rolls and grace notes etc, but I still think that the 'magic' of the music comes from the bowing.
Thats just my opinion though.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by session savage
What I'm getting at here is that a good left hand matched with a poor bowing arm aint gonna be as good as a moderate left hand with beautiful bowing.
IE its all in the bowing........ AINT IT!
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by session savage
Re: I'm not letting this one go
That's like saying a ferrari with wheels but no engine is still gonna look great, but a ferrari with an engine but no wheels is not gonna look so great.
Neither will actually work.
And you didn't respond to the piping analogy. Are you of the opinion that there can be no 'magic' in piping?
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
I actually think that the pipes are the most magical instrument. But comparing pipes to a fiddle is a bit of a stretch.
Its like comparing a strawberry to a spud. Yeah you can eat them both but thats about it.
The thing is, all the sounds of the pipes comes from the fingering, but you dont just have to lift your fingers or cover the holes you can roll your fingers off the holes etc . I'm sure there are other techniques I could use as examples but I dont know much about the playing techniques of the pipes. But I dont think its just a case of lifting your fingers and covering the holes.
And thats the way i see it with the fiddle, you dont just hit the notes and saw the sh*t out of them, your bowing has to be good too.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by session savage
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Aha, now we'er getting somewhere.
You concede that your bowing has to be good "too".
But with the pipes, you do actually just lift your fingers and cover the holes. Though as you say, that's not the whole story, it's how and when you lift your fingers and cover holes. Your example of rolling your fingers off holes is not just analogous to sliding up to notes on a fiddle finger board, it is exactly that.
You say you can't compare pipes and fiddle. but I'd like you to re-think this. Go back to it and listen to how a good piper plays diddley music. The music is essentially the same. The same notes. the same rolls and cuts and crans, the same variations, the same staccato tripletty runs, the same sliding between notes. The same tunes.
I think you are getting hung up on the fiddle being an entity in itself. You need to widen your attitude and try to concentrate on the music being the entity. A telling thing from you is that you keep saying "look" at people's bowing. You need to do less looking and more listening.
I remember as a kid hearing for the first time the fabulous duet of reels from the fiddle and pipes of James Kelly and Liam O'Flynn on the Planxty record Words and Music. I remember looking at the sleeve notes and seeing James Kelly's name on the set, but when I listened, all I could hear was the pipes, I just assumed that the fiddle must be well down in the mix. Then I had an epiphany of a revelation. The fiddle is more or less exactly the same volume as the pipes, it's just that the music is so complete you can't slide a razor blade between it.
Believe me savage when I say I'm not trying to be pedantic here, I'm trying to help.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
Yeah I can see that Michael. And thats exactly what I want.
I sincerely apreciate your input here. If I am ignorant (in the literal sence) I want to be informed.
I do get your point that I look at peoples bowing. The thing is, I only study someones bowing after I have heard them play. I can imediately hear the difference between a moderate player and a good one, and when I watch them the only thing I can see different is the bowing.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by session savage
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
That's because you often litterally can't see the fingers of the left hand, they move that fast. Goood left hand fingers aren't gonna look any different from crap ones
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by ...
Re: Its all in the bowing aint it.
True, I guess I'm just getting frustrated because I have been really practicing my left hand and am really pleased with my progress. But my playing is still novice and I blame my bowing. I know that if I can just sorrt out my bowing, my playing will be so much better.
# Posted on March 7th 2008 by session savage