Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Proper maintenance and care, breaking in a new instrument and information about tone. Provided by Santiago & Star Violins.
I just bought a new fiddle from Santiago & Star Violins. This is the 2nd one I’ve purchased and I’m very pleased with both. Their very reasonable, honest and I would recommend them highly. I’ve also, posted a link to them in the link section. http://www.starrsantiagoviolins.com/pages/459236/index.htm
Check out their site they have beautiful violins. Be sure to look at the Photo Gallery. I found it quite amazing how my playing was affected with the new fiddle. It’s so responsive and great tone not to mention stunning to look at. (I have no affiliation) If you’re in the market for a new violin he said he would “discount for anyone I know who is looking for a violin, to me, a friend “ (which I’m happy to say is all of you) “or family member.” So mention my name, it can’t hurt. For instance the nicest one #1007 listed at 2,500 he would sell for 2300.00 + shipping. I also bought a carbon bow made by Arcus. I won’t get it till the first of May but I’ll let you know what I think of it.
Joseph Santiago answered several of my questions regarding proper maintenance and care, breaking in a new instrument and information about tone. I wanted to share what I thought was very interesting information.
1. Do you recommend cleaning the strings and fingerboard? If so with What?
I do indeed recommend cleaning the strings and fingerboard after you play the violin every time before putting it in it's case to rest. Usually if you wipe them down with a soft clean cloth, you can remove most of the rosin build up. Of course after a long period of time you will need to clean more thoroughly. Luthiers use a solvent called Xylene which can be purchased at most paint stores. It is a very mild cleaner that removes almost everything from varnished surfaces (strings and fingerboard too). Let me warn you that it is a very toxic chemical and should only be used in a well ventilated area and you should avoid breathing it, and as little skin contact as possible. It evaporates quickly and can leave a hazy residue which wipes right off. What ever you do, DO NOT USE ALCOHOL on any violin. Alcohol will attack many varnishes so even if a drop gets on your violin, it could eat (dissolve) the varnish. Alcohol will clean the strings and fingerboard quite well, but the risks are high for the varnish. Also do not ever use furniture polish on the varnish because these have waxes that just build up and clog the pores of the varnish and wood. So, to sum things up ... my suggestion is to just wipe down the entire violin (including string and fingerboard) after each use with a clean soft cloth and you should not have any problems for a long time.
The Xylene (pronounced "Zyleen") is actually exactly what Hans Weisshaar (and Hill) used to sell as the violin cleaner in those small square bottles in violin shops. You can buy a pint in a paint store for a few dollars ... or a small 1 oz. bottle at violin shops for $5.00. The reason they no longer sell it to the general public is because of it's health hazards. Read the warning label carefully before using it if you do buy some and use it on your violins.
RE: new instrument information
One other thing, although the violin (#20) varnish is dry to the touch, it will actually take several months to cure 100% so treat it with the utmost care. When all the smell is gone, that is a good indication that the varnish is cured. The tone will also improve once this happens as the varnish hardens.
2. Is it bad to leave the chin rest on it for a long time?
The chinrest will cause no damage as long as it is not over tightened. If it is too tight, the rib can begin to buckle and bulge out, sometimes even crack, so as long as it is on just snug, you will not have to remove it for any reason.
3. Do you have to go through a breaking in period on a new instrument?
Almost all new acoustic instruments (not just violins) will go through a break in period. New instruments must settle in as they are played and under string tension. You will notice that the violin will open up even more and begin to sound more balanced as you play on it. Also, after a year or so, your violin will most likely need a new sound post. They always require a longer one after they settle in since the distance between the top and back becomes greater from the tension of the strings thus making the post too short. It is very minimal (usually fractions of a mm), but can make a huge difference in tone and performance.
4. Why does it sound better with age?
I don't think that age is what makes a violin sound better, but rather usage which takes time. There are some old violins that sound horrible. Usage loosens up the fiber in the tone wood. I'm not quite sure how this happens, but it is a fact.
5. Does it sound better the more often you play it?
They almost always sound better after being played on for a long time. Again, I think it is part of the settling in that makes a difference at first, then it is the properties of the wood fibers that I assume continue to mature and flex. For example a new car feels tight and solid and with time begins to loosen up, of course violins are better when they are loosened up (unlike cars), but there are many moving parts on a violin although we cannot see them move with the naked eye.
6. I sometimes leave # 14 out when playing the stereo and it hums along. Does leaving it out help improve the tone of the fiddle?
Many have sworn that leaving their instruments by speaker has helped the tone mature and I don't doubt it, but I cannot prove it. It goes back to the moving parts again. Any vibrations to the violin will help loosen it up and when I say loosen, I don't mean sluggish in performance, but rather open in tone so that the top, back, bridge and post move more freely.
Does this change in the wood that effects the tone, continue on to a peak at some point in time? (Or, is it a never-ending thing?)
I imagine that at some point the wood of a violin could stop improving as far as tone, but many times when the violin starts getting worse sounding, it is usually because of mistreatment, cracks, bad maintenance or a bad set up (bridge, post, strings tailgut length adjustment, etc.) I would have to say that the wood itself will never get worse but only better with time infinitely if cared for properly. Of course every violin has it's limits and most of those limits are determined by the construction of the violin and the wood used originally to make it.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Thanks for the info, deblittle. I just bought a brand new fiddle myself a couple of months ago. One important thing I didn't know was that the sound post would need to be replaced in about a year or so!
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I enjoyed reading this information too. It's nice to see the strong relationship that develops between a musician and a beloved instrument. Deb, why do you call your fiddle #14? I too believe that leaving it out by the stereo is helpful. It may not be scientific, but it is intuitive. Have you seen the movie The Red Violin with Samuel L. Jackson? It is one of my favorites.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I referred it as # 14 because it is part of the label system of the maker. I have #14 and my new #20. I’ve actually, named my beloved #14, Aidan - "flame, fire, fiery"; derived from word aedh "fire". I haven’t come up with a name for #20 yet. Yes, I have seen the Red Violin and enjoyed it as well. I was thinking of the boy in the movie who died and was buried with the violin. It reminded me of a story the Scoiltraid Piper told at a workshop about the pipes he had, they were buried with the owner. I’m not exactly sure how the Piper from Scoiltrad acquired them after that but I thought it was interesting.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
That would be Eoin O Riabaigh. They are Taylor pipes that were buried with their owner at his request. His family, after a year or so, got to thinking that it was a shame that those pipes were mouldering in the ground, so they dug the grave back up and extracted the pipes. The pipes wound up stuck in an attic after a generation or two. They were given to Eoin by the family, who thought it was a shame that they weren't being played after all that.
Another story about the pipes that Eoin gave us while here in Denver was that he looked at Dirk's pipes and said, wow, I haven't seen that set in a very long time. His brother in law had made them and Eoin was probably the first piper to play them. How they got from Ireland to a teenager in Vail, Colorado (from whom Dirk bought them) we don't know.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Wow! that is a great analogy to the story in The Red Violin..! Very interesting...., almost uncanny, as if that was the basis for the story line, who knows.... Thanks for relating it Zina. I don't know Dirk, but I'm so glad he recovered those pipes! I have been a vintage instrument dealer and collector for many years. The pedigree of an instrument really enhances the relationship. This brings back a lot of great memories about that movie and I'm headed to Blockbuster tonight to refresh the synapses.
What I was actually remembering was the acoustic experiment when the Technician placed the violin in the sound chamber, right above the speaker. It was the method of scientificially measuring its purity,... and a vivid moment, reminscent of King Solomon as he was about to cut the baby in half and the true mother screamed out,... when Samuel Jackson could not stand it as the violin was tortured.
But still, the point being, I think exposure to recorded music is good for an acoustic instrument, like reading to a baby in the woumb... (Ha, and all this coming from a drummer, what do I know?).~!~`
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Zina - Thanks for putting the story together and for refreshing my synapses. Awesome story! I thought that it was something like that but it’s so surreal and I didn’t want to get it wrong. I’m so glad that you cleared things up. I will commit them to memory. It does seem there is some kind of great cosmic musical force at work sometimes.
This business of mature tone or tone development process is pretty mysterious and intriguing as well. I wonder if the tone vibrations of a different type of music (like Classical vs. Irish) would have a different impact on the woods response. I’m going to have to pull out my tape of the Red Violin and watch it again, that was a good movie.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
You know,(I thought about that aspect for a few moments. Yes, in once sense it is a little unsettling, but again, I have come to believe that is is better to correct mistakes in life than to stubbornly live with them. And I loved Zina's word "mouldering", I didn't even know that was a word.
Hey Deb, I'd be a little cautious about cleaning my instrument every time I played it with Xylene. Maybe I'm wrong, but for me, that sounds like an accident, waiting for a place to happen. Of course, I'm one of those people who would be trying so hard to be perfect that I would dump the whole bottle over in my violin during the process of trying not to spill a drop from the cleaning cloth. (smile).
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Yes, it's quite creepy, Andee and Charlie -- thank goodness you don't blow on uilleann pipes, don't you think? I don't think I could quite bear the thought of putting lips to a reed on that set no matter how many times one cleaned it if they were mouth blown...eeeaaauuugh. *grin* I imagine by now they're quite over their six-foot-down experience, but still...
I mainly remember that story so well, Deb, because it impressed the heck out of Dirk. (Well, it probably impressed him more that Eoin had been the piper that had played in Dirk's set in its infancy -- how unlikely is that?!) Dirk tells the story (actually, both of them) fairly often at gigs, so I hear it fairly often.
I know of techs who swear that the whole tone-wood-over-a-speaker thing is so much persiflage, and others who absolutely swear by it. Those who think it's a lot of bull-puckies tend to talk about the fact that wood is dead and therefore cannot "loosen" anything except by deterioration. Me, I've no idea whatsoever if it's true or a fairy tale. We should get Will in on this, as an old maker himself...
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
P.S. Eoin is a very, very, VERY funny man. Absolutely delightful guy (as are the other two main tutors, Kevin Glackin and Conal O Grada), and if you ever get a chance to get a lesson from him (or the other two), do it. Which of course, you can, through Scoiltrad.
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I'd use isopropanol ("isoprop") rather than xylene. You can get it in most drug stores (chemist in the UK). It doesn't have anything like the health hazard of xylene, unless you drink it, but you need the same level of care when applying to the strings. Like xylene or alcohol, it will make the varnish vanish in double-quick time, so keep the bottle well away from the instrument and apply it to the strings using a lint-free cloth. Isoprop evaporates very quickly (possible fire hazard!) so provided you hold the fiddle so that the belly is vertical the chances of the stuff dripping onto the belly is remote.
I wouldn't recommend surgical spirit or industrial spirit because they contain added oils and other stuff which are not a good idea on the fiddle strings.
Trevor
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I once took a look at a fiddle of a friend from the East Coast. The poor thing was coated with rosin dust. "You should clean that stuff off," I pointed out, "or sooner or later it'll eat the varnish off your fiddle and wreck it." I'll never forget the look of outright horror and consternation on his face and for a split second I thought he was all concerned about his fiddle. But no.
"Clean it off!?" he exclaimed. "But I worked so hard to get it all on there! And it looks so good that way!"
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
re Cleaning:
What you want to clean is the fingerboard and the strings, I suppose.
If you hold the fiddle horizontal, back side facing up, while cleaning with a moistened clean rag there´s no chance that the cleaning liquid can get to the varnish.
Best wishes, Michael
Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Proper maintenance and care, breaking in a new instrument and information about tone. Provided by Santiago & Star Violins.
I just bought a new fiddle from Santiago & Star Violins. This is the 2nd one I’ve purchased and I’m very pleased with both. Their very reasonable, honest and I would recommend them highly. I’ve also, posted a link to them in the link section.
http://www.starrsantiagoviolins.com/pages/459236/index.htm
Check out their site they have beautiful violins. Be sure to look at the Photo Gallery. I found it quite amazing how my playing was affected with the new fiddle. It’s so responsive and great tone not to mention stunning to look at. (I have no affiliation) If you’re in the market for a new violin he said he would “discount for anyone I know who is looking for a violin, to me, a friend “ (which I’m happy to say is all of you) “or family member.” So mention my name, it can’t hurt. For instance the nicest one #1007 listed at 2,500 he would sell for 2300.00 + shipping. I also bought a carbon bow made by Arcus. I won’t get it till the first of May but I’ll let you know what I think of it.
Joseph Santiago answered several of my questions regarding proper maintenance and care, breaking in a new instrument and information about tone. I wanted to share what I thought was very interesting information.
1. Do you recommend cleaning the strings and fingerboard? If so with What?
I do indeed recommend cleaning the strings and fingerboard after you play the violin every time before putting it in it's case to rest. Usually if you wipe them down with a soft clean cloth, you can remove most of the rosin build up. Of course after a long period of time you will need to clean more thoroughly. Luthiers use a solvent called Xylene which can be purchased at most paint stores. It is a very mild cleaner that removes almost everything from varnished surfaces (strings and fingerboard too). Let me warn you that it is a very toxic chemical and should only be used in a well ventilated area and you should avoid breathing it, and as little skin contact as possible. It evaporates quickly and can leave a hazy residue which wipes right off. What ever you do, DO NOT USE ALCOHOL on any violin. Alcohol will attack many varnishes so even if a drop gets on your violin, it could eat (dissolve) the varnish. Alcohol will clean the strings and fingerboard quite well, but the risks are high for the varnish. Also do not ever use furniture polish on the varnish because these have waxes that just build up and clog the pores of the varnish and wood. So, to sum things up ... my suggestion is to just wipe down the entire violin (including string and fingerboard) after each use with a clean soft cloth and you should not have any problems for a long time.
The Xylene (pronounced "Zyleen") is actually exactly what Hans Weisshaar (and Hill) used to sell as the violin cleaner in those small square bottles in violin shops. You can buy a pint in a paint store for a few dollars ... or a small 1 oz. bottle at violin shops for $5.00. The reason they no longer sell it to the general public is because of it's health hazards. Read the warning label carefully before using it if you do buy some and use it on your violins.
RE: new instrument information
One other thing, although the violin (#20) varnish is dry to the touch, it will actually take several months to cure 100% so treat it with the utmost care. When all the smell is gone, that is a good indication that the varnish is cured. The tone will also improve once this happens as the varnish hardens.
2. Is it bad to leave the chin rest on it for a long time?
The chinrest will cause no damage as long as it is not over tightened. If it is too tight, the rib can begin to buckle and bulge out, sometimes even crack, so as long as it is on just snug, you will not have to remove it for any reason.
3. Do you have to go through a breaking in period on a new instrument?
Almost all new acoustic instruments (not just violins) will go through a break in period. New instruments must settle in as they are played and under string tension. You will notice that the violin will open up even more and begin to sound more balanced as you play on it. Also, after a year or so, your violin will most likely need a new sound post. They always require a longer one after they settle in since the distance between the top and back becomes greater from the tension of the strings thus making the post too short. It is very minimal (usually fractions of a mm), but can make a huge difference in tone and performance.
4. Why does it sound better with age?
I don't think that age is what makes a violin sound better, but rather usage which takes time. There are some old violins that sound horrible. Usage loosens up the fiber in the tone wood. I'm not quite sure how this happens, but it is a fact.
5. Does it sound better the more often you play it?
They almost always sound better after being played on for a long time. Again, I think it is part of the settling in that makes a difference at first, then it is the properties of the wood fibers that I assume continue to mature and flex. For example a new car feels tight and solid and with time begins to loosen up, of course violins are better when they are loosened up (unlike cars), but there are many moving parts on a violin although we cannot see them move with the naked eye.
6. I sometimes leave # 14 out when playing the stereo and it hums along. Does leaving it out help improve the tone of the fiddle?
Many have sworn that leaving their instruments by speaker has helped the tone mature and I don't doubt it, but I cannot prove it. It goes back to the moving parts again. Any vibrations to the violin will help loosen it up and when I say loosen, I don't mean sluggish in performance, but rather open in tone so that the top, back, bridge and post move more freely.
Does this change in the wood that effects the tone, continue on to a peak at some point in time? (Or, is it a never-ending thing?)
I imagine that at some point the wood of a violin could stop improving as far as tone, but many times when the violin starts getting worse sounding, it is usually because of mistreatment, cracks, bad maintenance or a bad set up (bridge, post, strings tailgut length adjustment, etc.) I would have to say that the wood itself will never get worse but only better with time infinitely if cared for properly. Of course every violin has it's limits and most of those limits are determined by the construction of the violin and the wood used originally to make it.
# Posted on April 30th 2003 by deblittle
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Thanks for the info, deblittle. I just bought a brand new fiddle myself a couple of months ago. One important thing I didn't know was that the sound post would need to be replaced in about a year or so!
# Posted on April 30th 2003 by Andee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I enjoyed reading this information too. It's nice to see the strong relationship that develops between a musician and a beloved instrument. Deb, why do you call your fiddle #14? I too believe that leaving it out by the stereo is helpful. It may not be scientific, but it is intuitive. Have you seen the movie The Red Violin with Samuel L. Jackson? It is one of my favorites.
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I referred it as # 14 because it is part of the label system of the maker. I have #14 and my new #20. I’ve actually, named my beloved #14, Aidan - "flame, fire, fiery"; derived from word aedh "fire". I haven’t come up with a name for #20 yet. Yes, I have seen the Red Violin and enjoyed it as well. I was thinking of the boy in the movie who died and was buried with the violin. It reminded me of a story the Scoiltraid Piper told at a workshop about the pipes he had, they were buried with the owner. I’m not exactly sure how the Piper from Scoiltrad acquired them after that but I thought it was interesting.
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by deblittle
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
That would be Eoin O Riabaigh. They are Taylor pipes that were buried with their owner at his request. His family, after a year or so, got to thinking that it was a shame that those pipes were mouldering in the ground, so they dug the grave back up and extracted the pipes. The pipes wound up stuck in an attic after a generation or two. They were given to Eoin by the family, who thought it was a shame that they weren't being played after all that.
Another story about the pipes that Eoin gave us while here in Denver was that he looked at Dirk's pipes and said, wow, I haven't seen that set in a very long time. His brother in law had made them and Eoin was probably the first piper to play them. How they got from Ireland to a teenager in Vail, Colorado (from whom Dirk bought them) we don't know.
Zina
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Wow! that is a great analogy to the story in The Red Violin..! Very interesting...., almost uncanny, as if that was the basis for the story line, who knows.... Thanks for relating it Zina. I don't know Dirk, but I'm so glad he recovered those pipes! I have been a vintage instrument dealer and collector for many years. The pedigree of an instrument really enhances the relationship. This brings back a lot of great memories about that movie and I'm headed to Blockbuster tonight to refresh the synapses.
What I was actually remembering was the acoustic experiment when the Technician placed the violin in the sound chamber, right above the speaker. It was the method of scientificially measuring its purity,... and a vivid moment, reminscent of King Solomon as he was about to cut the baby in half and the true mother screamed out,... when Samuel Jackson could not stand it as the violin was tortured.
But still, the point being, I think exposure to recorded music is good for an acoustic instrument, like reading to a baby in the woumb... (Ha, and all this coming from a drummer, what do I know?).~!~`
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Zina - Thanks for putting the story together and for refreshing my synapses. Awesome story! I thought that it was something like that but it’s so surreal and I didn’t want to get it wrong. I’m so glad that you cleared things up. I will commit them to memory. It does seem there is some kind of great cosmic musical force at work sometimes.
This business of mature tone or tone development process is pretty mysterious and intriguing as well. I wonder if the tone vibrations of a different type of music (like Classical vs. Irish) would have a different impact on the woods response. I’m going to have to pull out my tape of the Red Violin and watch it again, that was a good movie.
Thanks
Deb
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by deblittle
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Zina, creepy story about digging the pipes back up from the grave. Kind of Wuthering Heights-ish.
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by Andee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
You know,(I thought about that aspect for a few moments. Yes, in once sense it is a little unsettling, but again, I have come to believe that is is better to correct mistakes in life than to stubbornly live with them. And I loved Zina's word "mouldering", I didn't even know that was a word.
Hey Deb, I'd be a little cautious about cleaning my instrument every time I played it with Xylene. Maybe I'm wrong, but for me, that sounds like an accident, waiting for a place to happen. Of course, I'm one of those people who would be trying so hard to be perfect that I would dump the whole bottle over in my violin during the process of trying not to spill a drop from the cleaning cloth. (smile).
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Yes, it's quite creepy, Andee and Charlie -- thank goodness you don't blow on uilleann pipes, don't you think? I don't think I could quite bear the thought of putting lips to a reed on that set no matter how many times one cleaned it if they were mouth blown...eeeaaauuugh. *grin* I imagine by now they're quite over their six-foot-down experience, but still...
I mainly remember that story so well, Deb, because it impressed the heck out of Dirk. (Well, it probably impressed him more that Eoin had been the piper that had played in Dirk's set in its infancy -- how unlikely is that?!) Dirk tells the story (actually, both of them) fairly often at gigs, so I hear it fairly often.
I know of techs who swear that the whole tone-wood-over-a-speaker thing is so much persiflage, and others who absolutely swear by it. Those who think it's a lot of bull-puckies tend to talk about the fact that wood is dead and therefore cannot "loosen" anything except by deterioration. Me, I've no idea whatsoever if it's true or a fairy tale. We should get Will in on this, as an old maker himself...
zls
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
P.S. Eoin is a very, very, VERY funny man. Absolutely delightful guy (as are the other two main tutors, Kevin Glackin and Conal O Grada), and if you ever get a chance to get a lesson from him (or the other two), do it. Which of course, you can, through Scoiltrad.
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I'd use isopropanol ("isoprop") rather than xylene. You can get it in most drug stores (chemist in the UK). It doesn't have anything like the health hazard of xylene, unless you drink it, but you need the same level of care when applying to the strings. Like xylene or alcohol, it will make the varnish vanish in double-quick time, so keep the bottle well away from the instrument and apply it to the strings using a lint-free cloth. Isoprop evaporates very quickly (possible fire hazard!) so provided you hold the fiddle so that the belly is vertical the chances of the stuff dripping onto the belly is remote.
I wouldn't recommend surgical spirit or industrial spirit because they contain added oils and other stuff which are not a good idea on the fiddle strings.
Trevor
# Posted on May 1st 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
I once took a look at a fiddle of a friend from the East Coast. The poor thing was coated with rosin dust. "You should clean that stuff off," I pointed out, "or sooner or later it'll eat the varnish off your fiddle and wreck it." I'll never forget the look of outright horror and consternation on his face and for a split second I thought he was all concerned about his fiddle. But no.
"Clean it off!?" he exclaimed. "But I worked so hard to get it all on there! And it looks so good that way!"
zls
# Posted on May 2nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
re Cleaning:
What you want to clean is the fingerboard and the strings, I suppose.
If you hold the fiddle horizontal, back side facing up, while cleaning with a moistened clean rag there´s no chance that the cleaning liquid can get to the varnish.
Best wishes, Michael
# Posted on May 6th 2003 by musiklab
Re: Proper maintenance and care: Santiago & Star Violins.
Thanks for you suggestions and comments. Michael - good idea about turning the fiddle over!!
Deb
# Posted on May 9th 2003 by deblittle