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Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Hello!
I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia.
I play ITM for 9 years and now I'm very interested in singing ITM .
I had basic experience of singing in musical school, sang in Rusiian choir.
I sing some backings in my art project.
I am also graduated as a sound engineer/producer so I understand the difference between "what you think you're doing" and "what you get in reality".
I need to learn this style together with improving of my basic tehcnics.
As for men's vocal - I can see the low-voice "drunken" style (close to Dubliners or Pogues) and "nice high voice"
of more traditional (I believe) style we can see in lot of the bands.
The second one is more interested for me. What can I use for better unrestanding that?
I don't believe too much in classic or Jazz vocal practice in my situation - I see that the basic is very different.
How to breath? Should I use "the base" (not sure if you use this classical term)?
How to change the "position"? How to work with ornaments?
May be there are some DVD or something?
Also interested in female vocal school for ITM.
Thanks!
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Well, I would suggest listening to the song style you feel is closest to yours, and learning the songs as sung.
I would imagine English language songs are probably easier to understand for you but ..... As in playing the tunes, the songs 'bones', melody are the first aspect to understand and learn,The ornaments add variation to the pure tune.
Do you have a song, or songs in mind?
Different regions have different styles. The best I can do is suggest you listen to lots of Irish song, try and identify the regional styles and your own feeling for how you wish to sing these wonderfull treasures.
Big subject.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I was watching a programme on the tele a few days ago and it was about a band (which included the Kerry singer and accordion player Seamus Begley among others). All of the band are singers and musicians and one aspect which Seamus commented on one of the female singers was that she let the song do the talking (no pun intended!). It's not about showing your singing ability but more so to bring the story of the song out to your audience. The same can be applied to playing traditional tunes but with the tunes, they don't tell a story. It's more about conveying your own feelings through the music or else, bringing out the beauty in a tune.
Well, that's my pitching in anyway. Take it or leave it. Enjoy the songs anyway.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 jig
Of course English is the only language I could try right now - I do not like fake singing so Gaelic is not possible for me.
The trouble is that I need to increase my basic singing level but in proper direction. Easy to understand how to do that with jazz or classic.
But how do they learn you for Irish songs?
Breathing, positions, base, open vocal - these are the factors for me...
to PaddyCmusic -
I think I understand that - as I have experience in Russian or Belarus folklore - it is the same there. But even for simple songs you need to have some ability to sing and that thing is not here yet
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
listen to some traditional singers,Elizabeth Cronin,Margaret Barry,Paddy Tunney,Sara Makem.George Hanna,Sarah Anne ONeill.Tom Lenihan,KittyHayes
Idont mean REVIVAL SINGERS,or singers of traditional songs ,but Traditional Singers.
or contact Jim Carroll,he has a CD,called Around the Hills of Clare,he can be contacted on the mudcat discussion forum..he has collected many traditional songs,and should be able to help you.DickMiles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I would like to know if you really want to 'clone' your singing style from those that dickens mentioned or is the song the reason for your singing whether it be for joy, pain or the story.
To copy is certainly a great compliment. To sing technically well is also an achievement requiring skill and dedication.
My two cents? Sing because you want to, it is in the spirit and the heart of the singer that the truth of the performance lies. It does not always require technical ability or accuracy of reproduction. That said, have you an honest friend who will tell you if you performed well and to a decent standard without offence to the hearing of your listeners?
Most importantly, be yourself.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
john knoss,
it is not aquestion of cloning,but more absorbing styles.If one was going to sing jazz ,youwould listen to jazz singers,learning to sing technicaly well is important for any style Jazz IrishTraditional,classical.
learning to sing technically well can be acheived,by correct breathing, vocal exercises,etc and IMO does not require listening to a particular style.
but if you want to play/ sing irish trad music,you need to listen and absorb,and hopefully from this develop your own style.
I have been listening to Traditional singers for along time,but when I sing I sound like myself,I sound as if I am singing in a traditional style,
I do not sound like a classical singer trying to sing traditional songs[aka Peter Pears] Icould not be mistaken for any other singer, visit my website. www,.dickmiles.com DickMiles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Hi there,
As a singer and singing teacher, I think there's one thing I should point out to you right away - when you're talking about technique, you shouldn't be mentioning classical terms - classical singing is a style, just like Irish singing - vocal technique is NOT related to classical, or to Irish or anything else - it's the basis of all singing. If we are correctly taught by a good teacher, first we learn vocal technique and then we study the various ways to dress it up through placement and ornamentation to make it convincing in any given style.
Sadly, many people are taught classical style and technique as if they were one and the same thing, this then makes it very difficult for that person to change style later. Whilst the teachers who teach this way are bad teachers, they are also sadly in the majority across the world.
I would advise you to take some vocal technique lessons with a good teacher who doesn't try to teach you a style at the same time, then once you can make the difference between classical style and vocal technique, ask your teacher to listen to lots of irish singers with you, make an overview of the style tricks used (ornamentation, forward placement, singing on nasal and liquid sounds, phrasing etc) then learn how to apply those to your voice.
This is the only certain way to end up with convincing style and avoid becoming one of those classical singers who warble their way through Irish tunes.
Very good luck to you and feel free to contact me for advice.
Allan
(incidentally, I have nothing against the classical style, it was my preferred style for a long time... I just think that it's important to remember that it's nothing more than a style - it isn't a technique. If you're a guy you can wear a red shirt or a blue shirt, or you can dress like elvis - none of these is intrinsic to your being a man, they are just different ways of dressing. Sam goes for vocal style. I'm a tenor, but when I sing classical, it sounds classical - when I sing rock, it sounds rock and when I sing Irish it's slowly starting to sound Irish!)
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 Dave McGrath
Ilmar Karuso is the leader singer there and we never perform Irish traditional songs there so I can't do that )
But some day I will try to record the result of my practice with my 'Irish' band
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't think it's helpful in the slightest to give examples of particular singers to evikki for her to listen to, especially when the recordings of several of these mentioned above (with the exceptions of Margaret Barry and Karan Casey) are extremely hard to come by (and Kitty Hayes is largely known as a concertina player).
Far better would be to acquire a decent Irish songbook - Walton's has several on sale http://www.waltons.ie - and some compilation albums of Irish singing.
There's an exceptionally good new CD of unaccompanied Irish song released by Whisht!, a group of singers from County Wexford, called 'The Cuckoo's Nest' and available from its website http://www.whisht.info. The site also alows visitors to download a copy of the recorded songs' lyrics.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't see what it has to do with someone's singing abilities if one is 'best known as a concertinaplayer' does that mean the person in question can't be a lovely singer (which she is) ??
The fact some recordings may be harder to find doesn't really excludes them from being good advice. It may take a bit of effort but there are plenty specialised outlets that will provide good singing material through on-line shopping.
Some of the material mentioned (and more besides) can be had here for example:
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Perhaps I am way off here, but folk music comes from the folk, not from the rules, but if you are trying to evoke a certain sense of music from a specific place or era, then learning the way it was sung makes sense. But, if you are a teller of tales who sings, then I agree, let the song tell the story.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Its simply the stages in a process. Listening , absorbing and immitating are essential stages on the route to individual style. A mistake many make is to believe they can attain a high level in a traditional craft without immitating masters first. This is an essential step. It does not mean you are therefor obliged to remain an immitator. Once a thorough grounding is attained then you are free to innovate, and express your self. To perhaps advance beyond the old masters and, maybe become one yourself, one day.
Singing is the 'first' instrument and above them all. The voice is capable of expression that even fiddlers will be unable to match. As with any instrument, technique is all very well, but without the spirit of belief, enthusiasm, feeling dedication, etc will be somewhat meaningless.
In common with advice for instrumentalists;.... listen to a lot of singers, and Traditional Irish music in general. They are but parts of a greater whole, . And practice lots.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't know if the same applies to a Russian singing Irish songs, but here in the US, with Americans singing Irish songs, it is often the case that they either sound too American, so that something of the character of the song is lost, or that they try to sound too "Irish" and the performance becomes parody.
It's very tricky, to somehow sing in a style that's authentic to the source material, and also in a style that's authentic to the singer.
It can be done very well. I once heard a very good singer who, in a performance, sung an American black slave song, a New England whaling song, and an Irish song. Each sounded absolutely authentic to its style. Afterward someone asked him, why did he sing in various accents which were not his own, and he replied that he sang songs as he heard them sung.
While this can be thought of as mimickry or parody, remember that a traditional singer in Ireland likewise learns his songs from older singers and sings them as he heard them sung.
I've also, very often, heard American singers whose performance of Irish songs comes off as parody of the worst sort. These people would be much better off if they just sang the Irish songs in their own American voice.
Another problem touched on above is to hear Americans who have had formal "classical" or opera training and sing Irish songs in a horrid operatic style.
There's an entire package that goes with traditional Irish singing, not only a style of melodic treatment and an accent but also a specific sound of the voice itself. Likewise traditional Appalachian singers have a distinctive vocal sound or tone unlike that of any other style.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I agree totally about total immersion way of learning.
I have tried to learn jazz and I can't hear it in the same way I hear traditional stuff and I phrase completely differently.
I would suggest that you find a particularly well known song that you really enjoy and want to sing and obtain several different versions of it. This will help you develop your own style which will be similar to the people you listen to but not a mimickry of them. If you take this approach then you should be able to adapt your style to new songs as they come along.
I'm not so keen on mimickry as I'm not sure what the advantage in singing a song as an exacty copy of some one else is. Or perhaps its just that I'm not very good at it and my own voice has a relatively natural traditional sound and as a scot I can get away with the Irish stuff.
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Around the hills of Clare is available,and featuresTomLenihan,KittyHayes.and other good singers.
Elisabeth Cronin recordings are available, Sarah Anne Oneill is available if you google this.
Sarah Anne O'Neill, MP3 Music Download at eMusicSarah Anne O'Neill MP3s at eMusic. Download Sarah Anne O'Neill albums, tracks and songs for free with eMusic's trial subscription.
www.emusic.com/artist/MP3-Download/11749836.html - 14k - Likewise Sarah Makem Cached - Similar page Sarah Makem, MP3 Music Download at eMusicSarah Makem MP3s at eMusic. Download Sarah Makem albums, tracks and songs for free with eMusic's trial subscription.
www.emusic.com/artist/MP3-Download/11749574.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
Amazon.com: Sarah Makem: MP3 DownloadsAmazon.com: Sarah Makem: MP3 Downloads. ... Sarah Makem. All MP3 Songs, Showing 7 MP3 Songs. Sort by. Bestselling, Price: Low to High, Price: High to Low ...
www.amazon.com/Sarah-Makem/dp/B000QJV1OO - 91k - Cached - Similar pages .
Dick Miles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 jig: 'Its simply the stages in a process. Listening , absorbing and immitating are essential stages on the route to individual style...
'In common with advice for instrumentalists;.... listen to a lot of singers, and Traditional Irish music in general. They are but parts of a greater whole, . And practice lots.'
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
jfother, here is my take on copying;There are two main aspects, the Song, and a style of singing. by copying an expert you learn the tools they use, you can then apply them in your own way in different songs etc.
With the song; you will forget, over time how you learnt it anyhow , bits will get smoothed out you will find places to ornament in you own way etc you will change bits . You may well copy a number of different approaches to one song, your own will become a blend of their stuff and yours.
This applies to many different arts ,not just singing.
The song a trad song will have a basic melody, the tune,This is really to be respected, its the vocal ornaments, and development of the melody with variation that is where the art is, not changing the song to make it 'better'! no names mentioned!
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Very well put Jig. I think perhaps that I came over too negative on the copying bit because I see so many people who copy one singer and stay with that style regardless of wether it suits their voice or the song.
Now if I could just get my jazz voice to sound like Ella or Billie or my blues like Bessie
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
There will allways be folk who do not progress to developeing their own style,This is not neccasarily bad, just a personal decision. Each to their own after all.
Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Hello!
I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia.
I play ITM for 9 years and now I'm very interested in singing ITM .
I had basic experience of singing in musical school, sang in Rusiian choir.
I sing some backings in my art project.
I am also graduated as a sound engineer/producer so I understand the difference between "what you think you're doing" and "what you get in reality".
I need to learn this style together with improving of my basic tehcnics.
As for men's vocal - I can see the low-voice "drunken" style (close to Dubliners or Pogues) and "nice high voice"
of more traditional (I believe) style we can see in lot of the bands.
The second one is more interested for me. What can I use for better unrestanding that?
I don't believe too much in classic or Jazz vocal practice in my situation - I see that the basic is very different.
How to breath? Should I use "the base" (not sure if you use this classical term)?
How to change the "position"? How to work with ornaments?
May be there are some DVD or something?
Also interested in female vocal school for ITM.
Thanks!
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by evikki
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Well, I would suggest listening to the song style you feel is closest to yours, and learning the songs as sung.
I would imagine English language songs are probably easier to understand for you but ..... As in playing the tunes, the songs 'bones', melody are the first aspect to understand and learn,The ornaments add variation to the pure tune.
Do you have a song, or songs in mind?
Different regions have different styles. The best I can do is suggest you listen to lots of Irish song, try and identify the regional styles and your own feeling for how you wish to sing these wonderfull treasures.
Big subject.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I was watching a programme on the tele a few days ago and it was about a band (which included the Kerry singer and accordion player Seamus Begley among others). All of the band are singers and musicians and one aspect which Seamus commented on one of the female singers was that she let the song do the talking (no pun intended!). It's not about showing your singing ability but more so to bring the story of the song out to your audience. The same can be applied to playing traditional tunes but with the tunes, they don't tell a story. It's more about conveying your own feelings through the music or else, bringing out the beauty in a tune.
Well, that's my pitching in anyway. Take it or leave it. Enjoy the songs anyway.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by 52Paddy
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 jig
Of course English is the only language I could try right now - I do not like fake singing so Gaelic is not possible for me.
The trouble is that I need to increase my basic singing level but in proper direction. Easy to understand how to do that with jazz or classic.
But how do they learn you for Irish songs?
Breathing, positions, base, open vocal - these are the factors for me...
to PaddyCmusic -
I think I understand that - as I have experience in Russian or Belarus folklore - it is the same there. But even for simple songs you need to have some ability to sing and that thing is not here yet
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by evikki
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Well yes of course you have to have an ability to sing. But just don't overlook simplicity.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by 52Paddy
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
listen to some traditional singers,Elizabeth Cronin,Margaret Barry,Paddy Tunney,Sara Makem.George Hanna,Sarah Anne ONeill.Tom Lenihan,KittyHayes
Idont mean REVIVAL SINGERS,or singers of traditional songs ,but Traditional Singers.
or contact Jim Carroll,he has a CD,called Around the Hills of Clare,he can be contacted on the mudcat discussion forum..he has collected many traditional songs,and should be able to help you.DickMiles
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I would like to know if you really want to 'clone' your singing style from those that dickens mentioned or is the song the reason for your singing whether it be for joy, pain or the story.
To copy is certainly a great compliment. To sing technically well is also an achievement requiring skill and dedication.
My two cents? Sing because you want to, it is in the spirit and the heart of the singer that the truth of the performance lies. It does not always require technical ability or accuracy of reproduction. That said, have you an honest friend who will tell you if you performed well and to a decent standard without offence to the hearing of your listeners?
Most importantly, be yourself.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by john knoss
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Irish singing is easy
1. Get drunk
2 Sing.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by mcknowall
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
evikki thanks for the link to ilmar karuso band. Please post more video.
Listen to Karan Casey sing "Distant Shore" on YouTube. Teach song to Karusoband.
Don't worry. It will be amazing to hear your own interpretation.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Dave McGrath
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
john knoss,
it is not aquestion of cloning,but more absorbing styles.If one was going to sing jazz ,youwould listen to jazz singers,learning to sing technicaly well is important for any style Jazz IrishTraditional,classical.
learning to sing technically well can be acheived,by correct breathing, vocal exercises,etc and IMO does not require listening to a particular style.
but if you want to play/ sing irish trad music,you need to listen and absorb,and hopefully from this develop your own style.
I have been listening to Traditional singers for along time,but when I sing I sound like myself,I sound as if I am singing in a traditional style,
I do not sound like a classical singer trying to sing traditional songs[aka Peter Pears] Icould not be mistaken for any other singer, visit my website. www,.dickmiles.com DickMiles
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Hi there,
As a singer and singing teacher, I think there's one thing I should point out to you right away - when you're talking about technique, you shouldn't be mentioning classical terms - classical singing is a style, just like Irish singing - vocal technique is NOT related to classical, or to Irish or anything else - it's the basis of all singing. If we are correctly taught by a good teacher, first we learn vocal technique and then we study the various ways to dress it up through placement and ornamentation to make it convincing in any given style.
Sadly, many people are taught classical style and technique as if they were one and the same thing, this then makes it very difficult for that person to change style later. Whilst the teachers who teach this way are bad teachers, they are also sadly in the majority across the world.
I would advise you to take some vocal technique lessons with a good teacher who doesn't try to teach you a style at the same time, then once you can make the difference between classical style and vocal technique, ask your teacher to listen to lots of irish singers with you, make an overview of the style tricks used (ornamentation, forward placement, singing on nasal and liquid sounds, phrasing etc) then learn how to apply those to your voice.
This is the only certain way to end up with convincing style and avoid becoming one of those classical singers who warble their way through Irish tunes.
Very good luck to you and feel free to contact me for advice.
Allan
(incidentally, I have nothing against the classical style, it was my preferred style for a long time... I just think that it's important to remember that it's nothing more than a style - it isn't a technique. If you're a guy you can wear a red shirt or a blue shirt, or you can dress like elvis - none of these is intrinsic to your being a man, they are just different ways of dressing. Sam goes for vocal style. I'm a tenor, but when I sing classical, it sounds classical - when I sing rock, it sounds rock and when I sing Irish it's slowly starting to sound Irish!)
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by rosfrog
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 Dave McGrath
Ilmar Karuso is the leader singer there and we never perform Irish traditional songs there so I can't do that )
But some day I will try to record the result of my practice with my 'Irish' band
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by evikki
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 rosfrog
Thanks a lot for that. That is what I started to understand and now it's getting clear.
I was thinking to take some lessons and use it like basis.
Thanks again!
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by evikki
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't think it's helpful in the slightest to give examples of particular singers to evikki for her to listen to, especially when the recordings of several of these mentioned above (with the exceptions of Margaret Barry and Karan Casey) are extremely hard to come by (and Kitty Hayes is largely known as a concertina player).
Far better would be to acquire a decent Irish songbook - Walton's has several on sale http://www.waltons.ie - and some compilation albums of Irish singing.
There's an exceptionally good new CD of unaccompanied Irish song released by Whisht!, a group of singers from County Wexford, called 'The Cuckoo's Nest' and available from its website http://www.whisht.info. The site also alows visitors to download a copy of the recorded songs' lyrics.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't see what it has to do with someone's singing abilities if one is 'best known as a concertinaplayer' does that mean the person in question can't be a lovely singer (which she is) ??
The fact some recordings may be harder to find doesn't really excludes them from being good advice. It may take a bit of effort but there are plenty specialised outlets that will provide good singing material through on-line shopping.
Some of the material mentioned (and more besides) can be had here for example:
http://www.oac.ie/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=134&MMN_position=143:143
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Perhaps I am way off here, but folk music comes from the folk, not from the rules, but if you are trying to evoke a certain sense of music from a specific place or era, then learning the way it was sung makes sense. But, if you are a teller of tales who sings, then I agree, let the song tell the story.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by janeann
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Its simply the stages in a process. Listening , absorbing and immitating are essential stages on the route to individual style. A mistake many make is to believe they can attain a high level in a traditional craft without immitating masters first. This is an essential step. It does not mean you are therefor obliged to remain an immitator. Once a thorough grounding is attained then you are free to innovate, and express your self. To perhaps advance beyond the old masters and, maybe become one yourself, one day.
Singing is the 'first' instrument and above them all. The voice is capable of expression that even fiddlers will be unable to match. As with any instrument, technique is all very well, but without the spirit of belief, enthusiasm, feeling dedication, etc will be somewhat meaningless.
In common with advice for instrumentalists;.... listen to a lot of singers, and Traditional Irish music in general. They are but parts of a greater whole, . And practice lots.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I don't know if the same applies to a Russian singing Irish songs, but here in the US, with Americans singing Irish songs, it is often the case that they either sound too American, so that something of the character of the song is lost, or that they try to sound too "Irish" and the performance becomes parody.
It's very tricky, to somehow sing in a style that's authentic to the source material, and also in a style that's authentic to the singer.
It can be done very well. I once heard a very good singer who, in a performance, sung an American black slave song, a New England whaling song, and an Irish song. Each sounded absolutely authentic to its style. Afterward someone asked him, why did he sing in various accents which were not his own, and he replied that he sang songs as he heard them sung.
While this can be thought of as mimickry or parody, remember that a traditional singer in Ireland likewise learns his songs from older singers and sings them as he heard them sung.
I've also, very often, heard American singers whose performance of Irish songs comes off as parody of the worst sort. These people would be much better off if they just sang the Irish songs in their own American voice.
Another problem touched on above is to hear Americans who have had formal "classical" or opera training and sing Irish songs in a horrid operatic style.
There's an entire package that goes with traditional Irish singing, not only a style of melodic treatment and an accent but also a specific sound of the voice itself. Likewise traditional Appalachian singers have a distinctive vocal sound or tone unlike that of any other style.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
I agree totally about total immersion way of learning.
I have tried to learn jazz and I can't hear it in the same way I hear traditional stuff and I phrase completely differently.
I would suggest that you find a particularly well known song that you really enjoy and want to sing and obtain several different versions of it. This will help you develop your own style which will be similar to the people you listen to but not a mimickry of them. If you take this approach then you should be able to adapt your style to new songs as they come along.
I'm not so keen on mimickry as I'm not sure what the advantage in singing a song as an exacty copy of some one else is. Or perhaps its just that I'm not very good at it and my own voice has a relatively natural traditional sound and as a scot I can get away with the Irish stuff.
J
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by jfother
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Around the hills of Clare is available,and featuresTomLenihan,KittyHayes.and other good singers.
Elisabeth Cronin recordings are available, Sarah Anne Oneill is available if you google this.
Sarah Anne O'Neill, MP3 Music Download at eMusicSarah Anne O'Neill MP3s at eMusic. Download Sarah Anne O'Neill albums, tracks and songs for free with eMusic's trial subscription.
www.emusic.com/artist/MP3-Download/11749836.html - 14k - Likewise Sarah Makem Cached - Similar page Sarah Makem, MP3 Music Download at eMusicSarah Makem MP3s at eMusic. Download Sarah Makem albums, tracks and songs for free with eMusic's trial subscription.
www.emusic.com/artist/MP3-Download/11749574.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
Amazon.com: Sarah Makem: MP3 DownloadsAmazon.com: Sarah Makem: MP3 Downloads. ... Sarah Makem. All MP3 Songs, Showing 7 MP3 Songs. Sort by. Bestselling, Price: Low to High, Price: High to Low ...
www.amazon.com/Sarah-Makem/dp/B000QJV1OO - 91k - Cached - Similar pages .
Dick Miles
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by Dick Miles
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
2 jig: 'Its simply the stages in a process. Listening , absorbing and immitating are essential stages on the route to individual style...
'In common with advice for instrumentalists;.... listen to a lot of singers, and Traditional Irish music in general. They are but parts of a greater whole, . And practice lots.'
That is very important and correct. Thank you!
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by evikki
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
jfother, here is my take on copying;There are two main aspects, the Song, and a style of singing. by copying an expert you learn the tools they use, you can then apply them in your own way in different songs etc.
With the song; you will forget, over time how you learnt it anyhow , bits will get smoothed out you will find places to ornament in you own way etc you will change bits . You may well copy a number of different approaches to one song, your own will become a blend of their stuff and yours.
This applies to many different arts ,not just singing.
The song a trad song will have a basic melody, the tune,This is really to be respected, its the vocal ornaments, and development of the melody with variation that is where the art is, not changing the song to make it 'better'! no names mentioned!
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
Very well put Jig. I think perhaps that I came over too negative on the copying bit because I see so many people who copy one singer and stay with that style regardless of wether it suits their voice or the song.
Now if I could just get my jazz voice to sound like Ella or Billie or my blues like Bessie
J
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by jfother
Re: Learning Irish Traditional Vocal - how, where, what can help?
There will allways be folk who do not progress to developeing their own style,This is not neccasarily bad, just a personal decision. Each to their own after all.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by piobagusfidil