Haay, I'm trying to find an informationsource where I can learn how to pronounce gealic words. Lots of tunes are in gealic and poor me, I can't even tell people what song I mean because of the language...
For example, I'm trying to pronounce the word óg and the word críonnacht. If you place them together, it means young wisdom, right???
Críonnacht: cree*-an-acht**
Óg: aug, as in 'this augers well.'***
*these sounds are but a rude approximation. This is a slender 'r', sounded by placing the ridge of your tongue on the roof of your mouth with the tip of the tongue just behind the upper gums. A slight sibilance or 'sh' should be produced here.
**this roughly approximates as 'acht' of German 'achtung'
*** Ulster pronunciation. Southern pronunciation would be more similar to 'oeg' as in hoe, or doe (a deer, a female deer etc).
You may also find the glossary over on the Comhaltas site at http://comhaltas.ie/glossary#comhaltas useful as it lists many of the music related terms "as gaeilge" along the audio of how they sound.
Heres a good example of translating into a language you dont understand. This american girl wanted a tattoo of the words "drug free" on her back in Irish. As you can see what she got actually means 'free drugs', if you consider drug'ail an irish word at all! :D http://modblog.bmezine.com/2007/02/23/drugail-saor
Beware of pronunciation guides like that. It might sound like "rogue" with Irish pronunciation, but with my Southern English pronunciation, it's nothing like it.
The "O" sounds are tricky as they vary from dialect to dialect. In the Gaelic I studied it would be the "aw" sound in "og".
Remember that "gaelic" is used when speaking English to refer to Scots Gaelic.
"Irish" is the politically correct term in English for Irish Gaelic. Never "erse".
Irish speakers refer to their language as Gaeilge, Scots Gaelic speakers refer to their language as Gaidhlig.
There may be these variations but to the vast majority of speakers an "o" with a fada (ó) such as in óg (young) or ól (drink) will always have a long sound like "o" in the words "hole", "mole", "coal", etc. The "aw" sound would be an "a" with a fada (á) such as in bán (white), lán (full), etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gaelgóir but this has been my experience of the language over the years both in Connacht and Munster (I don't think Birmingham counts!).
“Irish speakers refer to their language as Gaeilge”.
Well in Donegal we do call it Gaelic (2 syllables; where the ‘c’ sounds somewhere between c and g) while speaking in Gaelic, and Gaeilge (with 3 syllables) is reserved for the genitive and dative case. (Many people still call it Gaelic when speaking English too, but this is becoming less common.)
“It is Óg as in rouge, you pronounce the Ó. It is not "aug" as in auger.”
Well, not in Donegal!
‘There may be these variations but to the vast majority of speakers an "o" with a fada (ó) such as in óg (young) or ól (drink) will always have a long sound like "o" in the words "hole", "mole", "coal", etc’
This ‘vast majority’ is a VAST overestimation! Donegal Gaelic is not just a minor variation on a larger theme! The Donegal Gaeltacht is in fact the largest gaeltacht in terms of population (Raidió na Gaeltachta statistics), and ‘óg’ does sound more like ‘aw-g’, as in ‘awe’ (though not quite so long). The Dublin-imposed standard favours non-Donegal pronunciation and so many people who do not speak Irish have been given the impression that the Donegal dialect is marginal to Gaelic language and culture.
For ‘Domhnall Óg’ (or ‘Dónall Óg’, in standardised spelling) remember that the ‘D’ is soft (the tongue is placed behind the teeth rather like when saying ‘the’). D is always soft when in the middle or end of a word, at the beginning it can either soft or hard (which sounds like a ‘j’), e.g., Dia (God), ‘Diabhal’, (Devil), ‘d’ith … (…ate). Lots of rules, little time…
Neil McEwan’s Scots Gaelic lessons seem to have disappeared unfortunitely, they’re very good so I hope anyone who wants them can locate them somewhere.
It is good to try to get the pronunciation authentic but, other than asking a fluent speaker, it’s tricky. For individual cases you can get hints as to similar English pronunciation, but it just won’t sound right because Gaelic has some sounds that just don’t occur in English (as with any language). And though there are hard and fast rules within each of the (startlingly diverse) dialects, they’re not easy to sum up. The “Now You're Talking": Multi-Media Course in Irish for Beginners” is by far the best I’ve encountered if you want to get your Gaelic on! It’s a superb BBC-RTÉ language course. (And it is more representative than many other courses in that it contains lots of Donegal Gaelic.)
And come to think of it...
"The "aw" sound would be an "a" with a fada (á) such as in bán (white), lán (full), etc".
Likewise, only in the far south. It would be more like 'baan', 'laan', etc. in Donegal Gaelic (the Ulster dialect as it used to be called). Down with standardization!
"as Gaeilge" means in Irish not just Irish. Or so I was taught at school.
Best thing to do to learn pronounciation is to sound out the letter as a child would and letters with a fada: as in one of these >>>> é , has emphasis on the letter so pronouce its roundly.
I hope that makes some sense. Follow the fadas to fnd were a word in emphasised although this may not always work its a good indication. ish
There's a saying in Irish 'namhaid an cheird gan a fhoghlaim.' The ó in óg in Northern Irish is very often pronounced as in the 'au' from auger. Listen to native speakers from Donegal.
Níor mhaith liom a dhéanamh amach go bhfuil mé níos Gaelaí ná aon duine anseo, ach tá a fhios agam go bhfuil mé céad faoin chéad ceart faoi seo. Níor cheart comhairle a thabhairt faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge mura bhfuil tú i do chainteoir maith tú féin.
First time it sounded like "rupa" but was OK in the last verse or two. Whatever his dialect is I'd have problems with my cúpla focail as the pronounciation seems a bit strange to me.
Thanks Sinocal, an old nursery rhyme spoken by one of the last surviving old-school story-tellers from Rann na Feirsde. I remember this rhyme from when I was a kid. And you’ll never hear more beautiful Donegal Gaelic, nor meet a nicer chap than John Ghráinne.
"Níor cheart comhairle a thabhairt faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge mura bhfuil tú i do chainteoir maith tú féin." Substitute Gaelige and cainteoir for other words, and that statement would be applicable for so, so much on the net.
don Diabhal leis an chaighdeán, ach bheinn féin saghas neirbhíseach caint faoin difríocht idir na canúintí. níl mórán ama agam don chanúint Ultach, ach tá sé isteach i mo chaint ag an am céanna. as a non-native (but fluent) speaker, my speech is a total mixture of both Kerry and donegal as well as Connacht Gaeilge. Gaeilge is the language, as Gaeilge means 'through Irish' and the whole argument over pronunciation is pointless as generally foreign learners need to hear it themselves, and pick it up from whoever teaches them, at least as far as is my experience. ar aon chaoi:
To all who speak Gealic..
To all who speak Gealic..
Haay, I'm trying to find an informationsource where I can learn how to pronounce gealic words. Lots of tunes are in gealic and poor me, I can't even tell people what song I mean because of the language...
For example, I'm trying to pronounce the word óg and the word críonnacht. If you place them together, it means young wisdom, right???
Please, send me the phonetics of these words...
Thanx a lot.
xx Aine
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by ainekenaz
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Hi ainekenaz,
Here's a link that should get you started.
http://www.irish.ie/foras/default.asp?lang=en&catID=44
I hope this helps.
L
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Fanning
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
I would imagine that it is críonnacht óg.
Críonnacht: cree*-an-acht**
Óg: aug, as in 'this augers well.'***
*these sounds are but a rude approximation. This is a slender 'r', sounded by placing the ridge of your tongue on the roof of your mouth with the tip of the tongue just behind the upper gums. A slight sibilance or 'sh' should be produced here.
**this roughly approximates as 'acht' of German 'achtung'
*** Ulster pronunciation. Southern pronunciation would be more similar to 'oeg' as in hoe, or doe (a deer, a female deer etc).
Hope this was a help.
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Two references and a cautionary tale for those exhibiting languages they do not know.
http://www.learnirishgaelic.com/
http://www.byki.com/
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article369654.ece
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Innocent Bystander
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Óg: pronounce the 'ó' like the 'o' in rogue.
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by molaoch
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
It think its gaelic our looking for, better start off on the right foot !!!
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by iluvpints
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Don't start with the "which foot do you kick with"...
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Innocent Bystander
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
You may also find the glossary over on the Comhaltas site at http://comhaltas.ie/glossary#comhaltas useful as it lists many of the music related terms "as gaeilge" along the audio of how they sound.
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
hahaha silly me, spelling it incorrect, owh well, I'm dutch
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by ainekenaz
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Thanx to all
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by ainekenaz
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
fadhb ar bith
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by iwerzon
I cannot read Irish
But I am trying to learn the pronunciations;
http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
It is Og as in rouge, you pronounce the O. It is not "aug" as in auger.
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Think you meant rogue BB!
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Heres a good example of translating into a language you dont understand. This american girl wanted a tattoo of the words "drug free" on her back in Irish. As you can see what she got actually means 'free drugs', if you consider drug'ail an irish word at all! :D
http://modblog.bmezine.com/2007/02/23/drugail-saor
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by tnoumarap
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
"Óg: pronounce the 'ó' like the 'o' in rogue."
Beware of pronunciation guides like that. It might sound like "rogue" with Irish pronunciation, but with my Southern English pronunciation, it's nothing like it.
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Thanks Bannerman, but maybe "Ouush as in rouge" is closer.
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
óg - doe as in female deer - Dónal Óg - Doe-nel Oeg
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by TOMMYB
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
The "O" sounds are tricky as they vary from dialect to dialect. In the Gaelic I studied it would be the "aw" sound in "og".
Remember that "gaelic" is used when speaking English to refer to Scots Gaelic.
"Irish" is the politically correct term in English for Irish Gaelic. Never "erse".
Irish speakers refer to their language as Gaeilge, Scots Gaelic speakers refer to their language as Gaidhlig.
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
There may be these variations but to the vast majority of speakers an "o" with a fada (ó) such as in óg (young) or ól (drink) will always have a long sound like "o" in the words "hole", "mole", "coal", etc. The "aw" sound would be an "a" with a fada (á) such as in bán (white), lán (full), etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gaelgóir but this has been my experience of the language over the years both in Connacht and Munster (I don't think Birmingham counts!).
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
As always, nothing is as simple as it appears!
“Irish speakers refer to their language as Gaeilge”.
Well in Donegal we do call it Gaelic (2 syllables; where the ‘c’ sounds somewhere between c and g) while speaking in Gaelic, and Gaeilge (with 3 syllables) is reserved for the genitive and dative case. (Many people still call it Gaelic when speaking English too, but this is becoming less common.)
“It is Óg as in rouge, you pronounce the Ó. It is not "aug" as in auger.”
Well, not in Donegal!
‘There may be these variations but to the vast majority of speakers an "o" with a fada (ó) such as in óg (young) or ól (drink) will always have a long sound like "o" in the words "hole", "mole", "coal", etc’
This ‘vast majority’ is a VAST overestimation! Donegal Gaelic is not just a minor variation on a larger theme! The Donegal Gaeltacht is in fact the largest gaeltacht in terms of population (Raidió na Gaeltachta statistics), and ‘óg’ does sound more like ‘aw-g’, as in ‘awe’ (though not quite so long). The Dublin-imposed standard favours non-Donegal pronunciation and so many people who do not speak Irish have been given the impression that the Donegal dialect is marginal to Gaelic language and culture.
For ‘Domhnall Óg’ (or ‘Dónall Óg’, in standardised spelling) remember that the ‘D’ is soft (the tongue is placed behind the teeth rather like when saying ‘the’). D is always soft when in the middle or end of a word, at the beginning it can either soft or hard (which sounds like a ‘j’), e.g., Dia (God), ‘Diabhal’, (Devil), ‘d’ith … (…ate). Lots of rules, little time…
Have a look at Neil McEwan’s Lessons on Irish and Scots Gaelic. It's got a thorough guide pronunciation. The Irish Gaelic Lessons:
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/macewan/Ceachtanna.html
Main page:
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/macewan/Failte.html
Neil McEwan’s Scots Gaelic lessons seem to have disappeared unfortunitely, they’re very good so I hope anyone who wants them can locate them somewhere.
It is good to try to get the pronunciation authentic but, other than asking a fluent speaker, it’s tricky. For individual cases you can get hints as to similar English pronunciation, but it just won’t sound right because Gaelic has some sounds that just don’t occur in English (as with any language). And though there are hard and fast rules within each of the (startlingly diverse) dialects, they’re not easy to sum up. The “Now You're Talking": Multi-Media Course in Irish for Beginners” is by far the best I’ve encountered if you want to get your Gaelic on! It’s a superb BBC-RTÉ language course. (And it is more representative than many other courses in that it contains lots of Donegal Gaelic.)
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
And come to think of it...
"The "aw" sound would be an "a" with a fada (á) such as in bán (white), lán (full), etc".
Likewise, only in the far south. It would be more like 'baan', 'laan', etc. in Donegal Gaelic (the Ulster dialect as it used to be called). Down with standardization!
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
"as Gaeilge" means in Irish not just Irish. Or so I was taught at school.
Best thing to do to learn pronounciation is to sound out the letter as a child would and letters with a fada: as in one of these >>>> é , has emphasis on the letter so pronouce its roundly.
I hope that makes some sense. Follow the fadas to fnd were a word in emphasised although this may not always work its a good indication. ish
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Yip, quite right! "as Gaeilge" or "i nGaeilge" means 'in Irish".
# Posted on November 27th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
There's a saying in Irish 'namhaid an cheird gan a fhoghlaim.' The ó in óg in Northern Irish is very often pronounced as in the 'au' from auger. Listen to native speakers from Donegal.
Níor mhaith liom a dhéanamh amach go bhfuil mé níos Gaelaí ná aon duine anseo, ach tá a fhios agam go bhfuil mé céad faoin chéad ceart faoi seo. Níor cheart comhairle a thabhairt faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge mura bhfuil tú i do chainteoir maith tú féin.
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Word!
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Ní raibh tú ceart.
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Éist leis seo, a Lollypolly. Tabhair aird ar leith ar an bhealach a deir sé 'rópa'.
Listen to this piece. Especially to the way he says 'rópa'.
http://www.rannnafeirste.com/sampla.html
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
First time it sounded like "rupa" but was OK in the last verse or two. Whatever his dialect is I'd have problems with my cúpla focail as the pronounciation seems a bit strange to me.
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Ní raibh me ábalta ag éisteacht leis ná píosa. Taim ag magadh, tá tu ceart
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
Thanks Sinocal, an old nursery rhyme spoken by one of the last surviving old-school story-tellers from Rann na Feirsde. I remember this rhyme from when I was a kid. And you’ll never hear more beautiful Donegal Gaelic, nor meet a nicer chap than John Ghráinne.
# Posted on November 28th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
"Níor cheart comhairle a thabhairt faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge mura bhfuil tú i do chainteoir maith tú féin." Substitute Gaelige and cainteoir for other words, and that statement would be applicable for so, so much on the net.
# Posted on November 29th 2007 by Björn
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
dónal óg - caighdeán
# Posted on December 3rd 2007 by TOMMYB
Re: To all who speak Gealic..
don Diabhal leis an chaighdeán, ach bheinn féin saghas neirbhíseach caint faoin difríocht idir na canúintí. níl mórán ama agam don chanúint Ultach, ach tá sé isteach i mo chaint ag an am céanna. as a non-native (but fluent) speaker, my speech is a total mixture of both Kerry and donegal as well as Connacht Gaeilge. Gaeilge is the language, as Gaeilge means 'through Irish' and the whole argument over pronunciation is pointless as generally foreign learners need to hear it themselves, and pick it up from whoever teaches them, at least as far as is my experience. ar aon chaoi:
Beatha an Teanga í a Labhairt!! Hup!
# Posted on December 10th 2007 by diarmaidanconnachtach