Just a few week s after the craze for ukuleles over recorders in primary schools was revealed, it has just been announced that in senior schools the instruments of choice for music lessons are guitar and drums, rapidly overtaking the violin as the most widely taught instrument in schools in England, as reported in "The Guardian" newspaper.
Does this indicate that in the near future England will become a "nation of backers?".
Did forcing children to play the recorder produce a nation of Flute players ?
Unfortunetly not ............
Did forcing the violin prioduce a nation of fiddlers ?
The same for the uke I suspect
Panic over
or a "nation of stackers', having nothing better to do than to stack the shelves of supermarkets for others to purchase, the modern version of "a nation of shopkeepers".
Yeah, that's what they'll be next summer, because they won't be watching the football. Apparently it will cost the "economy" 2 or 2.5 billion pounds, due to lost pub and bookie revenue....I think they mean yer ordinary Englishmen won't be *spending* that money, so they could save it instead.
I'm sorry, but Jeremy has made it quite clear *many* times that this discussion forum is for discussing issues pertaining to Irish Traditional Dance music not English domestic political issues. I thank you. </tongue-in-cheek>
Three members of my family started taking guitar lessons at school, and currently three members of my family have given up having guitar lessons at school. So I think we're safe.
Well, if they are the right three chords, in the right place, whats the problem? better that than a dozen +9 +13 chords all in the wrong place and key!
A lot of trad tunes are based around 2 chords. Why then would anyone rather substitute loads more ? As long as they are the right chords, in the right place I couldn't care how many chords they use.
Its the life, energy ,drive and precise rhythm that is what is needed, The right hand is where the 'art' is. the left hand just has to be in the right place at the right time.
I just think after 15 years 'a 3 chord thrasher' should have moved on a bit.
Maybe the odd substitue chord here and there, the odd base run here and there , the odd alternative inversion here or there, the odd change in rythym here or there, the odd tasteful accent and syncopation for a bit of variety here and there, come on you know what I'm saying!
Guitars and drums - hasn't this instrumental combination done enough damage in the Rock world without inflicting it on trad! It has always been one of my frustrations back in the sixties when real rock groups like Johnny and the Hurricanes, Duane Eddy, Booker T and the MGs who included tenor saxes, organs, etc were displaced by all these UK groups with their "three guitars and drums". Can you imagine reels and jigs on lead guitars accompanied by rhythm and bass guitar plus a full drum set with fiddles, flutes, boxes, concertinas being consigned to history for old codgers like me to reminisce about?
Just a thought - I'm a music teacher in a school for kids with behaviour problems. They all say drums and guitars are what they want to play, and bash about for a few weeks... then they start experimenting with fiddles and ... well, trumpets, actually, which don't fit this site - but the harp blows them away. These big tough scary kids really want to play some tunes.
I don't get why anybody would worry about it. Maybe youngsters today are like those of my generation, they are bored with too much irtrad?
I know I couldn't hardly wait to be off my parents home in the UK so that I could get an electric guitar and amp. When I did, I threw my Clarke's TW in the trash and never gave it a second thought. BTW I was very soon playing chords and licks from popular songs of that era, say nothing about the wow effect of having reverb and ehco in MY own room to play with.
In those days the best Irtrad that you could hear was the likes of Sean Mc Guire and Paddy O Brien, Joe Cooley had been hushed off out of to America by the conservative Government ran religico menace of the time. Every thing we kids heard in R&R was already in Irtrad but we were prevented from hearing that side of it, ahem the Catholic and Protestant ethic ... no youth no dancing no drinking a dancing ( too much temptation ) and absolutely no sex. Like the adults knew that sex made more kids and they did not want that, besides they already had THE only kids that mattered, their own!
There is nothing more sexual than folk dance music well played.
It was another age and young people found their own way to express themselves, Robert Johnson, Leadbelly, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Woodie Gotherie, drugs, more drugs and funny clothes, long hair and freaking out, and OC lots of sex.
Good luck to the kids of today! Live your lives kids and to hell with the boring old farts telling you to do as they say!
I've wondered about this strange use of quotation marks in Ireland (as deployed by Bliss) for many years. My local newspaper does it regularly, announcing that there'll be a table quiz in "Clarke's Bar" or a raffle at "Casey's". Note that it's never the event which appears within said marks, but the venue.
Do these venues not really exist, was Horslips just a figment of our imagination? I think we should be told.
This isn't pedantry, but just a genuine enquiry as to how this grammatically odd situation came about.
I always thought quotation marks, also known as something else, were used for Names of establishments, plays, films, musical pieces. I have no idea why.
I was going to tell you it was a journalistic thing, as I did it for newspapers, but that would have been invention. Having said that, it might have something to do with it.
And Fairport with Richard Thompson on guitar were good at the tunes as well.
Incidentally the main instruments in Rock music are and always have been guitar and drums so how can they have done enough damage to rock music?!! That's like saying the fiddle and pipes have ruined Irish music....
I think my sentiments have been misinterpreted here - the problem is when it's solely guitars and drums. I have no problem with Frisbee's clip where there's also a bouzuki and concertina. Also in the rock world I wouldn't disagree that these instruments formed the backbone of nearly every ensemble but it is the other instruments (pianos, saxes, etc) that provided the colour and lift; imagine Fats Domino without his piano and brass section or Duane Eddy without the sax riffs - I rest my case!
Have to disagree with you there Bannerman regarding the rock world, Fats Domino and Duane Eddy are a bit before my time, to me that's rock n'roll not pure rock music. pianos and saxes can add some nice occassional colour to rock music but it's guitars and drums that make the music, well, rock!
Think we just have different ideas of what rock music is I suppose. Regarding guitar and drums in trad, I don't know many groups besides Horslips and Thin Lizzy who did trad style stuff with just guitar and drums, I gather there's a whole Celtic rock thing going on in the US which to be honest doesn't bother me in the slightest.
To me it's not the instruments the music is played on but the way it is played so if a group happens to play Irish music on guitars and drums and makes it sound good then why object? I've heard some pretty awful groups with just 'traditional' instruments and some 'traditional' ceilí bands are just awful.
I know that MacCruiskeen but a lot of their stuff was just guitars and drums wasn't it?
I had one Hosrlips album 'The Tain' a good few years ago, I don't remember many flutes, fiddles and concertinas on it. Didn't like it much to be honest. Don't think Horslips has dated well at all.
Ah, now, Frisbee, what were you playing your records on - an old Dansette or Perdio machine? There's plenty of concertina, fiddle, flute and even uilleann pipes on 'The Táin'. Don't forget also that the band's previous album, 'Happy to Meet - Sorry to Part', actually came in a concertina-shaped cover. I think they lost money on every copy that was sold - a bit like New Order's 'Blue Monday'.
I also used to think that the Horslips sound had dated, but, strangely, it's the later albums (where they tried to crack the US-stadium market) which feel such today.
By the way, the band's reunion DVD, 'The Return of the Dancehall Sweethearts', is a cracking good watch and well worth acquiring.
A Nation of Backers?
A Nation of Backers?
Just a few week s after the craze for ukuleles over recorders in primary schools was revealed, it has just been announced that in senior schools the instruments of choice for music lessons are guitar and drums, rapidly overtaking the violin as the most widely taught instrument in schools in England, as reported in "The Guardian" newspaper.
Does this indicate that in the near future England will become a "nation of backers?".
If so, what future for the session?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Did forcing children to play the recorder produce a nation of Flute players ?
Unfortunetly not ............
Did forcing the violin prioduce a nation of fiddlers ?
The same for the uke I suspect
Panic over
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by bazouki dave
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Panic? You are not Corporal Jones by any chance?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Those who want to play the guitar will play the guitar, etc..
I thought the popular instruments were the keyboard and the desk ( sic ) ?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Does this indicate that in the near future England will become a "nation of backers?"
-- Sorry, don't you mean backstabbers?
Oops, wrong website. I thought for a second, this was a football website discussing how the English press treats their former national team managers.
My apologies.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: A Nation of Backers?
or a "nation of stackers', having nothing better to do than to stack the shelves of supermarkets for others to purchase, the modern version of "a nation of shopkeepers".
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Yeah, that's what they'll be next summer, because they won't be watching the football. Apparently it will cost the "economy" 2 or 2.5 billion pounds, due to lost pub and bookie revenue....I think they mean yer ordinary Englishmen won't be *spending* that money, so they could save it instead.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I'm sorry, but Jeremy has made it quite clear *many* times that this discussion forum is for discussing issues pertaining to Irish Traditional Dance music not English domestic political issues. I thank you. </tongue-in-cheek>
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Three members of my family started taking guitar lessons at school, and currently three members of my family have given up having guitar lessons at school. So I think we're safe.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by mehitabel23
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I'm just happy that people want to actually play a musical instrument!
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by I ♥ Dow
Re: A Nation of Backers?
A nation of Backers, I hope not, one in each session is enough,
The worst is 'backers who are slackers' (My Fly!), they have been playing the same 3 chords on their guitar for the last 15 years!
Whats that all about??
K
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Kess
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Well, if they are the right three chords, in the right place, whats the problem? better that than a dozen +9 +13 chords all in the wrong place and key!
A lot of trad tunes are based around 2 chords. Why then would anyone rather substitute loads more ? As long as they are the right chords, in the right place I couldn't care how many chords they use.
Its the life, energy ,drive and precise rhythm that is what is needed, The right hand is where the 'art' is. the left hand just has to be in the right place at the right time.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Well said Jig!
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Kess
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I just think after 15 years 'a 3 chord thrasher' should have moved on a bit.
Maybe the odd substitue chord here and there, the odd base run here and there , the odd alternative inversion here or there, the odd change in rythym here or there, the odd tasteful accent and syncopation for a bit of variety here and there, come on you know what I'm saying!
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Kess
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Guitars and drums - hasn't this instrumental combination done enough damage in the Rock world without inflicting it on trad! It has always been one of my frustrations back in the sixties when real rock groups like Johnny and the Hurricanes, Duane Eddy, Booker T and the MGs who included tenor saxes, organs, etc were displaced by all these UK groups with their "three guitars and drums". Can you imagine reels and jigs on lead guitars accompanied by rhythm and bass guitar plus a full drum set with fiddles, flutes, boxes, concertinas being consigned to history for old codgers like me to reminisce about?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Yah wha?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Kess
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I am heartened that those on the site, as well as the experts who compiled the report, accept that drums and guitars are instruments.
And Bannerman, I know what you mean, but "Horslips" did alright at it.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: A Nation of Backers?
"And Bannerman, I know what you mean, but "Horslips" did alright at it" - but luckily it didn't catch on or last very long!!
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: A Nation of Backers?
All this talk about ukuleles is really making me want to go out and get one.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by sbhikes
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Just a thought - I'm a music teacher in a school for kids with behaviour problems. They all say drums and guitars are what they want to play, and bash about for a few weeks... then they start experimenting with fiddles and ... well, trumpets, actually, which don't fit this site - but the harp blows them away. These big tough scary kids really want to play some tunes.
Hazel.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Harper_9
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I don't get why anybody would worry about it. Maybe youngsters today are like those of my generation, they are bored with too much irtrad?
I know I couldn't hardly wait to be off my parents home in the UK so that I could get an electric guitar and amp. When I did, I threw my Clarke's TW in the trash and never gave it a second thought. BTW I was very soon playing chords and licks from popular songs of that era, say nothing about the wow effect of having reverb and ehco in MY own room to play with.
In those days the best Irtrad that you could hear was the likes of Sean Mc Guire and Paddy O Brien, Joe Cooley had been hushed off out of to America by the conservative Government ran religico menace of the time. Every thing we kids heard in R&R was already in Irtrad but we were prevented from hearing that side of it, ahem the Catholic and Protestant ethic ... no youth no dancing no drinking a dancing ( too much temptation ) and absolutely no sex. Like the adults knew that sex made more kids and they did not want that, besides they already had THE only kids that mattered, their own!
There is nothing more sexual than folk dance music well played.
It was another age and young people found their own way to express themselves, Robert Johnson, Leadbelly, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Woodie Gotherie, drugs, more drugs and funny clothes, long hair and freaking out, and OC lots of sex.
Good luck to the kids of today! Live your lives kids and to hell with the boring old farts telling you to do as they say!
My 10 c
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Bliss wrote - but "Horslips" did alright at it.
And, for the record, so did Runrig.
I've wondered about this strange use of quotation marks in Ireland (as deployed by Bliss) for many years. My local newspaper does it regularly, announcing that there'll be a table quiz in "Clarke's Bar" or a raffle at "Casey's". Note that it's never the event which appears within said marks, but the venue.
Do these venues not really exist, was Horslips just a figment of our imagination? I think we should be told.
This isn't pedantry, but just a genuine enquiry as to how this grammatically odd situation came about.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by MacCruiskeen
Re: A Nation of Backers?
The bewigged one wrote: 'There is nothing more sexual than folk dance music well played.'
Is it too late to enlighten him?
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by MacCruiskeen
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I think the tradition is in safe hands. We worry too much!
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I always thought quotation marks, also known as something else, were used for Names of establishments, plays, films, musical pieces. I have no idea why.
I was going to tell you it was a journalistic thing, as I did it for newspapers, but that would have been invention. Having said that, it might have something to do with it.
And Fairport with Richard Thompson on guitar were good at the tunes as well.
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: A Nation of Backers?
"Guitars and drums - hasn't this instrumental combination done enough damage in the Rock world without inflicting it on trad!" asks Bannerman
Well I guess you won't like this then Bannerman!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iGJq3xZ2Yw&feature=related
Incidentally the main instruments in Rock music are and always have been guitar and drums so how can they have done enough damage to rock music?!! That's like saying the fiddle and pipes have ruined Irish music....
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I think my sentiments have been misinterpreted here - the problem is when it's solely guitars and drums. I have no problem with Frisbee's clip where there's also a bouzuki and concertina. Also in the rock world I wouldn't disagree that these instruments formed the backbone of nearly every ensemble but it is the other instruments (pianos, saxes, etc) that provided the colour and lift; imagine Fats Domino without his piano and brass section or Duane Eddy without the sax riffs - I rest my case!
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Have to disagree with you there Bannerman regarding the rock world, Fats Domino and Duane Eddy are a bit before my time, to me that's rock n'roll not pure rock music. pianos and saxes can add some nice occassional colour to rock music but it's guitars and drums that make the music, well, rock!
Think we just have different ideas of what rock music is I suppose. Regarding guitar and drums in trad, I don't know many groups besides Horslips and Thin Lizzy who did trad style stuff with just guitar and drums, I gather there's a whole Celtic rock thing going on in the US which to be honest doesn't bother me in the slightest.
To me it's not the instruments the music is played on but the way it is played so if a group happens to play Irish music on guitars and drums and makes it sound good then why object? I've heard some pretty awful groups with just 'traditional' instruments and some 'traditional' ceilí bands are just awful.
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Hmm, Horslips actually used flute, fiddle and concertina too, Frisbee.
# Posted on November 24th 2007 by MacCruiskeen
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I know that MacCruiskeen but a lot of their stuff was just guitars and drums wasn't it?
I had one Hosrlips album 'The Tain' a good few years ago, I don't remember many flutes, fiddles and concertinas on it. Didn't like it much to be honest. Don't think Horslips has dated well at all.
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Sacrilege, Frisbee. "Horslips" take their rightful place in the pantheon of the immortals.
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Of course they do Bliss right along with you........
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: A Nation of Backers?
Ah, now, Frisbee, what were you playing your records on - an old Dansette or Perdio machine? There's plenty of concertina, fiddle, flute and even uilleann pipes on 'The Táin'. Don't forget also that the band's previous album, 'Happy to Meet - Sorry to Part', actually came in a concertina-shaped cover. I think they lost money on every copy that was sold - a bit like New Order's 'Blue Monday'.
I also used to think that the Horslips sound had dated, but, strangely, it's the later albums (where they tried to crack the US-stadium market) which feel such today.
By the way, the band's reunion DVD, 'The Return of the Dancehall Sweethearts', is a cracking good watch and well worth acquiring.
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by MacCruiskeen
Re: A Nation of Backers?
I should have added that the band's site is http://www.horslips.ie.
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by MacCruiskeen