Now, if I can have everyone's attention. I have a pressing, uh, medical expense that will require at least $6,000! I can't afford it myself so, please help! Email me through thesession to arrange your donation. Kind regards,
I've already clocked this one on E-Bay and i agree with mcdevincabe that's just crackers at that price. The thing with these old accordions now is they are becoming a currency in their own right. Since the "Change" of Paolo Soprani around 1982 onwards these old model prices have rocketed especially ones in good condition and working order. They seem to be taking on the role an expensive painting would. At the end of the day being rare is a good thing if you're the one who owns one, i suppose it will be interesting to see how much this accordion on E-Bay will sell for in 10 years time.
I'll be watching this sale with interest as I know a guy who bought a similar box recently for €2000, and even then I thought that he paid too much for it. I used to play a similar grey two row Paolo back in 1955, (cost me £32 on HP) In my opinion there are boxes around nowadays that are just as good, if not better. I'm afraid there is a touch of 'The King's New Clothes' about the whole thing. More money than sense comes to mind.
Last week a Dipper concertina went for £4800 on e-bay so this should go. Although a lower starting bid would have been more tempting to get a bit of interest going. Makes you wonder the kind of disposable income you may be in company with at your local session
The price of the old greys in good playable condition are that high, and up to twice for the special mint ones, and the ones I've played have been worth it. But I'd still stick with my red paolo.
If I had a sh*tload of cash, I don't think I'd mind paying that much for a super accordion. But it sure as heck had to be SUPER!
I suppose we're left to wonder what would make that grey accordion worth $6,000 (other than the obvious: that it's grey). Why are we willing to pay such a exorbitant prices for these accordions?
Please indulge me by considering the following, which is at best conjecture and at worst, a juvenile attempt at being clinically discerning (after all, if they only came in red, we wouldn't be worrying whether or not they complimented our ties and trousers and would evaluate them on the basis of some other criteria; let me add, also, that I'm no Paolo Sopranologist, I only play one and prefer them):
It seems to me that the main difference between the older red and the grey boxes I've played (variations in the tuning not withstanding; with the grilles on) is that the grey's sound extends farther and more forward than the red's. I'm sure there's a more technically accurate way to express this, but let's say the music from the grey sits in a zone about a foot off where the grille and the fingerboard meet. If, for our purposes, we say that the fingerboard is 0 degrees and the grille stands at 90 degrees, I think the grey's music sits at 45 degrees (this is from your perspective as you're playing).
Now it seems to me that the red's sound, with the grille on, extends to about half that distance and sits at an angle more like 25 degrees. With the grille off, I think it puts out as far as the grey, but that the sound still sits at 25 degrees. I've never had the luxury of taking the grille off a grey, so I can't compare them on those grounds.
Before I go any further, let me clarify what I mean by 'the sound extends'. I'm not referring to the instrument's ability to project or to be heard. We all know that most Paolo Sopranis are easily capable of drowning out all but the loudest flutes and fiddles; in fact, in the summer when the air is right, we on the Eastern seaboard of North America can hear the Kerry men tipping away in Dingle -- and vice versa, I'm sure. No, instead, I'm referring to the space where the sound from the treble reeds is most coherent or perhaps 'the sweetest' (which is open to infinite interpretation). In any event, it seems to me that this is the same space in which to mic the accordion, which should provide some clarification (although I hope that the ultimate merit of this discussion is not that it addresses accordion amplification). Again, I'm certain the big book of sonology is crying blood over the inadequacy of my terminology, but neither am I addressing the Academie.
If you're with me to this point, then I think we're asking the same question: why? ... ahem. The difference, surely, is not in the color; instead, I have a hunch that it has to do with the soundboard (it's angle and it's composition) and the grille/fingerboard (whether or not they're covered in celluloid). I don't imagine I've stumped anyone with this -- I certainly don't mean to have wasted your time, but I do think it's of note that the grilles and fingerboards on most of the old red models are coated in celluloid. The greys (the one in question being an exception) are not. Even with the grille off, it seems the red cannot match the grey's bell-like quality. I reckon that it has a lot to do with it's (in)ability to project beyond the celluloid on the fingerboard and the wood where the grille attaches. Perhaps the sound actually gets muddled under the red's fingerboard.
In any event, I believe it's the projection to that 45 degree zone that makes the grey box so superior to the red. Anything else - the action, the tuning, the basses clicking - is irrelevant because, with enough effort (read: $), it can be altered; however, neither am I confident that stripping the celluloid off the red grille/fingerboard will make it sound like a grey (though I know some relief has been effected by replacing celluloid smothered grilles with plain metal a la Benedict Koehler). I don't understand enough about the soundboard to evaluate it's influence, but I'm sure it IS influential.
We should at least conclude that the grey accordion in question is somewhat inferior on account of that it's grille/fingerboard has the cellulite coat.
If you will indulge me, I wish to offer one more, more philosophical, observation. If we continue to evaluate the old Paolo Sopranis on the basis of their color or (worse) give the impression that we're willing to pay for them on that standard, the monetary value attached to the greys will continue to skyrocket regardless of their musical quality. Already, the finest grey accordion I know (and I can only think of one to compare) too rarely sees the light of day because of its irreplacibility. You will agree that the beauty of these instruments is only expressed when they're played, but we've hyped them to the point that the great ones are almost unplayable. It's inevitable that great instruments are bartered for small fortunes, but it's ludicrous to add $2000-$4500 to the price of a box solely on account of it's color. I don't know too many bankers and oil tycoons who play (or finance) Irish Traditional music, but if we drive their value so high that even Miss Hilton clamors to possess one, I won't know many Paolo Sopranis that do, either.
In light of information I have lately obtained, I must retract what I wrote about the accordion not being one of the better ones. In fact, that accordion was most recently owned by Peter Carberry and, according to the fiddler who was selling it for him, it is in "pristine" condition. It may well have been worth every penny.
Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
Just to let you know..
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Paolo-Soprani-Grey-C-D-Accordian_W0QQitemZ300173199098QQihZ020QQcategoryZ16218QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by dinn2
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
Looks like a classic.
Now, if I can have everyone's attention. I have a pressing, uh, medical expense that will require at least $6,000! I can't afford it myself so, please help! Email me through thesession to arrange your donation. Kind regards,
silver bow
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by polkageist
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
That's the most expensive button accordion I've ever seen. There's no way that'll sell at that price.
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by mcdevincabe
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
I've already clocked this one on E-Bay and i agree with mcdevincabe that's just crackers at that price. The thing with these old accordions now is they are becoming a currency in their own right. Since the "Change" of Paolo Soprani around 1982 onwards these old model prices have rocketed especially ones in good condition and working order. They seem to be taking on the role an expensive painting would. At the end of the day being rare is a good thing if you're the one who owns one, i suppose it will be interesting to see how much this accordion on E-Bay will sell for in 10 years time.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by upmine3
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
$6000! thats about 50 quid isnt it!
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Button Box
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
I'll be watching this sale with interest as I know a guy who bought a similar box recently for €2000, and even then I thought that he paid too much for it. I used to play a similar grey two row Paolo back in 1955, (cost me £32 on HP) In my opinion there are boxes around nowadays that are just as good, if not better. I'm afraid there is a touch of 'The King's New Clothes' about the whole thing. More money than sense comes to mind.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
Last week a Dipper concertina went for £4800 on e-bay so this should go. Although a lower starting bid would have been more tempting to get a bit of interest going. Makes you wonder the kind of disposable income you may be in company with at your local session
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Pete Stephenson.
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
The price of the old greys in good playable condition are that high, and up to twice for the special mint ones, and the ones I've played have been worth it. But I'd still stick with my red paolo.
If I had a sh*tload of cash, I don't think I'd mind paying that much for a super accordion. But it sure as heck had to be SUPER!
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Larshansen
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
Well the time is up on this item and guess what? There were no bids. Now isn't that a surprise !!!!!!!!!
# Posted on November 25th 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
I suppose we're left to wonder what would make that grey accordion worth $6,000 (other than the obvious: that it's grey). Why are we willing to pay such a exorbitant prices for these accordions?
Please indulge me by considering the following, which is at best conjecture and at worst, a juvenile attempt at being clinically discerning (after all, if they only came in red, we wouldn't be worrying whether or not they complimented our ties and trousers and would evaluate them on the basis of some other criteria; let me add, also, that I'm no Paolo Sopranologist, I only play one and prefer them):
It seems to me that the main difference between the older red and the grey boxes I've played (variations in the tuning not withstanding; with the grilles on) is that the grey's sound extends farther and more forward than the red's. I'm sure there's a more technically accurate way to express this, but let's say the music from the grey sits in a zone about a foot off where the grille and the fingerboard meet. If, for our purposes, we say that the fingerboard is 0 degrees and the grille stands at 90 degrees, I think the grey's music sits at 45 degrees (this is from your perspective as you're playing).
Now it seems to me that the red's sound, with the grille on, extends to about half that distance and sits at an angle more like 25 degrees. With the grille off, I think it puts out as far as the grey, but that the sound still sits at 25 degrees. I've never had the luxury of taking the grille off a grey, so I can't compare them on those grounds.
Before I go any further, let me clarify what I mean by 'the sound extends'. I'm not referring to the instrument's ability to project or to be heard. We all know that most Paolo Sopranis are easily capable of drowning out all but the loudest flutes and fiddles; in fact, in the summer when the air is right, we on the Eastern seaboard of North America can hear the Kerry men tipping away in Dingle -- and vice versa, I'm sure. No, instead, I'm referring to the space where the sound from the treble reeds is most coherent or perhaps 'the sweetest' (which is open to infinite interpretation). In any event, it seems to me that this is the same space in which to mic the accordion, which should provide some clarification (although I hope that the ultimate merit of this discussion is not that it addresses accordion amplification). Again, I'm certain the big book of sonology is crying blood over the inadequacy of my terminology, but neither am I addressing the Academie.
If you're with me to this point, then I think we're asking the same question: why? ... ahem. The difference, surely, is not in the color; instead, I have a hunch that it has to do with the soundboard (it's angle and it's composition) and the grille/fingerboard (whether or not they're covered in celluloid). I don't imagine I've stumped anyone with this -- I certainly don't mean to have wasted your time, but I do think it's of note that the grilles and fingerboards on most of the old red models are coated in celluloid. The greys (the one in question being an exception) are not. Even with the grille off, it seems the red cannot match the grey's bell-like quality. I reckon that it has a lot to do with it's (in)ability to project beyond the celluloid on the fingerboard and the wood where the grille attaches. Perhaps the sound actually gets muddled under the red's fingerboard.
In any event, I believe it's the projection to that 45 degree zone that makes the grey box so superior to the red. Anything else - the action, the tuning, the basses clicking - is irrelevant because, with enough effort (read: $), it can be altered; however, neither am I confident that stripping the celluloid off the red grille/fingerboard will make it sound like a grey (though I know some relief has been effected by replacing celluloid smothered grilles with plain metal a la Benedict Koehler). I don't understand enough about the soundboard to evaluate it's influence, but I'm sure it IS influential.
We should at least conclude that the grey accordion in question is somewhat inferior on account of that it's grille/fingerboard has the cellulite coat.
If you will indulge me, I wish to offer one more, more philosophical, observation. If we continue to evaluate the old Paolo Sopranis on the basis of their color or (worse) give the impression that we're willing to pay for them on that standard, the monetary value attached to the greys will continue to skyrocket regardless of their musical quality. Already, the finest grey accordion I know (and I can only think of one to compare) too rarely sees the light of day because of its irreplacibility. You will agree that the beauty of these instruments is only expressed when they're played, but we've hyped them to the point that the great ones are almost unplayable. It's inevitable that great instruments are bartered for small fortunes, but it's ludicrous to add $2000-$4500 to the price of a box solely on account of it's color. I don't know too many bankers and oil tycoons who play (or finance) Irish Traditional music, but if we drive their value so high that even Miss Hilton clamors to possess one, I won't know many Paolo Sopranis that do, either.
# Posted on November 26th 2007 by Diogenes of Sinope
Re: Paolo soprani rey on ebay.....
In light of information I have lately obtained, I must retract what I wrote about the accordion not being one of the better ones. In fact, that accordion was most recently owned by Peter Carberry and, according to the fiddler who was selling it for him, it is in "pristine" condition. It may well have been worth every penny.
# Posted on December 3rd 2007 by Diogenes of Sinope