I have been playing concertina for four years and although I have many tunes under my belt I still walk into a session and feel as though there's a train wreck about to happen, and it's all going to be my fault.
Does anyone else experience this? Is it just a chronic case of concertina shyness?
It's because you're a awesome musician on other instruments and you apply the same standards to this new one. You're probably a tiny bit less awesome on the tina. I wouldn't worry about it; blast away!
Sorry folks, I'm not sure it's useful just to say, "ach you'll be ok", however well intentioned the sentiment is meant. Experiencing nerves/shyness, especially on a difficult instrument, is very real. I think it's best to confront the problem and deal with it, or it won't go away, or will do only slowly.
I still get it sometimes and it screws up sets I play easily at home. It gets worse if there are people talking right in front of you which I find very rude. Sometimes I give the box a huge loud squeeze for a few bars and sometimes that shuts them up.
The best thing is to try and concentrate only on the tunes you're playing and not the people around you. Close your eyes if necessary. Cock your head down so you can better hear yourself play.
I've always been fairly self conscious about most things and can still feel nervous about playing any instrument in certain circumstances.
I always tend to be much more nervous when playing the fiddle possibly because I know that it's far less forgiving than the mandolin and I imagine the concertina falls into the same category. It does help when I stick to tunes which I know really well and, also, if I'm in the company of other fidddlers.
So, my next question.. Are there any other concertina players in your session or can you "team up" with one?
You might benefit from "safety in numbers"
Oh katiebee you are awesome on the concertina, i think you need to just crank the f*&k up!!!!! You and a certain other fiddler player are my offical heros! See you on the flip side
This wasn't a fishing expedition - thanks all the same to me mates (most of whom I can identify!). It;s funny, the concertina shyness seems to be separate from ego - I recognise the "ego crisis" feeling from other instruments. Concertina seems to be an almighty challenge, and I often think of it as similar to trying to look at one of those 3D pictures... if you think too hard, you can't do it.
I feel keenly aware if I enter a session and I'm not in the right zone... or the right "zone window", as it happens. I know that the technical thing to do is to sit it out, but I also feel the need to push through it, which can be done with a bit of perseverance and a pint.
I've emailed this thread to my favorite concertina player in the hopes she may have some technical info for you. Otherwise, to get the "space" you need to get your head in, there's no better post than Mey Maniac Lad's last two lines. It's all about headspace. What make you feel comfortable about playing your other instruments?
hey katiebee i find sometimes if you feel like you are going to stuff a session up, just put your head down and go for the clappers....i do it all the time and works a treat! Most people just stop and listen...i am sure it is because they are just amazed at my brilliance
One thing about the concertina which doesn't apply to practically any other instrument is that it can be visually very inconspicuous, like when it's being played out of sight on the player's lap.
More than once I've heard a concertina in a session and have had to look around for a certain gentleman whose only indication that he's playing it under the table (got to be careful with wording here!) is the look of bland innocence on his face and the small arm movements.
You? Stuff a session up? I hardly think so! Anyway even if you did, nobody you play tunes with would give a sh1t
I have the afternoon off so will see you at Durty Nelly's for some tunes. Everyone's talking about the fact you're in town. You'd better have your concertina with you!
Maybe its only because you can't hide behind it like you can other instruments that are more conspicuous. I am sure you are as fantastic at it as you are with everything else. Perhaps all you have to do is get used to the view.
I had the same problem with the box for a while. It's complicated enough to just play the tunes, and any bit of nerves makes it hard to play as well as I could at home.
What helped me was two things. Having simplified versions of tunes (without the rolls, say) just so I could get through the first couple of sets and relax a bit. The other was more practice with the metronome, so that I could prove to myself that I can actually play the tunes at the right speed. This is important, because the tendency is to want to speed up, even when I know that's going to cause a train-wreck. Studiously sticking to the tempo helped a lot.
I'm not saying that's necessarily your issue, but I've seen other box/concertina players do the same thing.
Well the only way to swim is by getting in the water, same with playing in public.
It can help to have steady musos to play with you can 'hide behind'.
Try working your way up to it.... play wit a friend as audience, then a few friends etc.... before jumping in the deep end.
Reading your 2nd post makes me think about the 2 halves of the brain.The technical stuff needs to be internalized to cross over from the learning intellectual side to the artistic performing side.
It could simply be you need more practice... you might think this mad but try practicing/playing while watching telly, or reading a book!
The concertina can be a whicked instrument to play. It has two sides and you can't really watch what you're doing. So much about playing Irish music relies on muscle memory and it just takes feckin time to get it all to work.
For me the problem seems to be that I tense up in public and none of the subtle stuff I worked on seems to come through. At home it sounds much better, but I'm playing by myself with no pressure and everything works better. I'd say my abilities drop about 20% or more in public. Only after a few pints and if I'm relaxed does it start to sound the way I want it to.
When I first arrive at a session I try to follow others and not start tunes for a bit. Sometimes I have to start tunes right off, but I just lower my expectations and go for it. It just all takes so bloody long to learn -- especially with that blasted contraption. Sometimes I could swear it must have been damaged on the way to the pub, but then it works fine when I get it back home again.
I don't get nervous playing sessions, but if I'm asked to start a set, I tremble, it's terrible. Uncontrollable, irrational fear. And you're a way better 'tina player than I am box player, so try not to worry about it. Remember that everyone you play with already knows what level you're at on the concertina, and no one is going to hold it against you if you make a few mistakes on what, your eighth instrument? Just jump in so far up the deep end that there's no turning back and you'll realise you can swim better than most!
Who invented the concertina? I believe at least one of the variations on the instruments was developed by a fellow named Wheatstone, more famous for a cipher he devised, quite a diabolical one in the pre-computer days. It figures, doesn't it?
As for shyness - well, it doesn't help to say "you'll be fine" but it's true. And once you find that you do fine, you do better the next time, because you're not so worried that you'll bung it up. And after a while, you do bung one up, and you find that that's fine too, and you're even less nervous next time. So yeah - you'll be fine.
Kate, don't be shy. Just come on down to the Lommond on Monday night.
Uncle Dan and all the old folks there just love your concertina playing, and anything else you decide to grace us with too! See you there soon!
kjay-bc_box, you're a wise man and a wicked box player and I will listen to your wisdom til the cows come home. I can't believe you modified your own box! You rock. Big time.
pushpullefty, I only wish I was home more Monday nights cos the Lowey is one of those mysterious Melbourne beasts that is unhinged, unpredictable and glorious. I'll try to make it to more....
Phantom Button, your name is incredibly apt since you seem to be what I'm always searching for. Where is that frickin G#????
Jig, I thought that it was only me that benefited from playing in front of the telly, but I'm glad to have someone back me up on that! It can work... but not if you're watching something crap like Neighbours.
Clear Drops, one day we'll make it to NT....
Dow, I miss you!! damn work, every time I see you you're rushing off. Come and hang with me, drink some oolong tea and show me what you do on that tina of yours.
And tombo, you rock. Crank it up like Meatloaf never knew how.
Hey katiebee, Get yer buddies together and get a bluudy grant to do a gig at Araluen across the road (I think the current Director is a concertina player!!!). Something along the lines of that fabulous ABC Pure Drop stuff. I could name a couple of bands who have done it, give some instrument workshops, gig, then take some time to go down to The Rock, walk/cycle the Larapinta trail and have a look around the Red Centre - you wouldn't regret it I promise ya!
Katie i think the shyness (particularly as was wittnessed on sunday) can be linked to a single cause, namely your obvious crush on a certain elderly box playing member of our community . I really think that if you just told him how you felt and stopped playing this stupid, coy, cat and mouse flirting game you would loosen up and your playing would improve. Frankly i'm sick and tired of watching you drool into the concertina whilst staring longingly at you know who every time we have tunes!!
Get it together girl. Everyone knows. Nobody cares. Just hurry up and hook up with him!!! :p
ha ha ha katiebee thats it you need help! leave mr accordian alone, i know he is handsome and good looking, and the way he moves his tongue makes ones stomach lurch...i mean leap, but surely you can look beyond that!
Well her name is kate,
she plays the concertina,
when comes to hornpipes,
no one plays em meaner,
she can jig and reel all night and all day,
in any given style,
just not the key of A
Right. That's it. I'm gonna go and learn..... something in A, and I'll show you! It's war on the mic, LITE. Wow! Late In the Evening abbreviated is LITE! Can I have my creampuff LITE, please?
On the original subject of this thread, I have a couple of theories which I stick to because it means I don't have to face the deep psychological meaning of my fearful behaviour at sessions.
1) The concertina is held a long way from your ears, and you get less "foldback". A fiddle player can really hear themselves because of the way the physical laws of sound work (thinking of square law here). They might be getting 10 times the volume in foldback we get.
I find what frightens me starting a set is that moment when everyone joins in, and I suddenly can't hear myself for a number of bars until everyone settles down. Depending on the number of players and the environment (carpet on the floor?) I might never hear myself again in the set. When practising I listen to myself acutely, and I feel lost when I can't.
2) The concertina always presents you with more than one alternative way of playing any phrase (I'm not talking about one of those simple instruments Dow plays). When you are playing Anglo you are constantly having to choose between these different paths. These choices can have ramifications later in the phrase, particularly in relation to the C# when playing in D on a 30 key.
More importantly, when you learn a tune you tend to learn it according to whichever path lends itself to the tune. This is great when you just learned the tune, but a year down the track when you have not played it for six months you will have forgotten the special provisions you made for each phrase and are left with that, "Oh Dog, I used to know this, why doesn't it feel right" moment, yet again...
I remember Michael Rooney saying at Chewton, concertina players only have about 10 tunes "worked up" at any moment, and this is the reason why...
Sorry to miss you on Sunday, I had to go about 3-30pm...
There was a concert called Tina
as a poet, she wasn't a has-beener,
she took lots of care
when playing, not to swear
and her limericks couldn't be cleaner
As far as metro-gnomes go, we all have a built-in pair - they are called feet. Mary MacNamara insists she can't start playing until she gets her feet going in time.
Concertina shyness
Concertina shyness
I have been playing concertina for four years and although I have many tunes under my belt I still walk into a session and feel as though there's a train wreck about to happen, and it's all going to be my fault.
Does anyone else experience this? Is it just a chronic case of concertina shyness?
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
It's because you're a awesome musician on other instruments and you apply the same standards to this new one. You're probably a tiny bit less awesome on the tina. I wouldn't worry about it; blast away!
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Hup
Re: Concertina shyness
I'm sure you'll be fine too, Katie.
How come you never meet anyone at a session with bodhran shyness?
is there such a thing?
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by John J.
Re: Concertina shyness
"How come you never meet anyone at a session with bodhran shyness?"
No, you wouldn't, by definition.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Concertina shyness
Sorry folks, I'm not sure it's useful just to say, "ach you'll be ok", however well intentioned the sentiment is meant. Experiencing nerves/shyness, especially on a difficult instrument, is very real. I think it's best to confront the problem and deal with it, or it won't go away, or will do only slowly.
I still get it sometimes and it screws up sets I play easily at home. It gets worse if there are people talking right in front of you which I find very rude. Sometimes I give the box a huge loud squeeze for a few bars and sometimes that shuts them up.
The best thing is to try and concentrate only on the tunes you're playing and not the people around you. Close your eyes if necessary. Cock your head down so you can better hear yourself play.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Concertina shyness
I've always been fairly self conscious about most things and can still feel nervous about playing any instrument in certain circumstances.
I always tend to be much more nervous when playing the fiddle possibly because I know that it's far less forgiving than the mandolin and I imagine the concertina falls into the same category. It does help when I stick to tunes which I know really well and, also, if I'm in the company of other fidddlers.
So, my next question.. Are there any other concertina players in your session or can you "team up" with one?
You might benefit from "safety in numbers"
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by John J.
Re: Concertina shyness
Oh katiebee you are awesome on the concertina, i think you need to just crank the f*&k up!!!!!
You and a certain other fiddler player are my offical heros! See you on the flip side 
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
This wasn't a fishing expedition - thanks all the same to me mates (most of whom I can identify!). It;s funny, the concertina shyness seems to be separate from ego - I recognise the "ego crisis" feeling from other instruments. Concertina seems to be an almighty challenge, and I often think of it as similar to trying to look at one of those 3D pictures... if you think too hard, you can't do it.
I feel keenly aware if I enter a session and I'm not in the right zone... or the right "zone window", as it happens. I know that the technical thing to do is to sit it out, but I also feel the need to push through it, which can be done with a bit of perseverance and a pint.
Who the f$#! invented the concertina?? and why???
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
I've emailed this thread to my favorite concertina player in the hopes she may have some technical info for you. Otherwise, to get the "space" you need to get your head in, there's no better post than Mey Maniac Lad's last two lines. It's all about headspace. What make you feel comfortable about playing your other instruments?
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Concertina shyness
hey katiebee i find sometimes if you feel like you are going to stuff a session up, just put your head down and go for the clappers....i do it all the time and works a treat!
Most people just stop and listen...i am sure it is because they are just amazed at my brilliance 
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
One thing about the concertina which doesn't apply to practically any other instrument is that it can be visually very inconspicuous, like when it's being played out of sight on the player's lap.
More than once I've heard a concertina in a session and have had to look around for a certain gentleman whose only indication that he's playing it under the table (got to be careful with wording here!) is the look of bland innocence on his face and the small arm movements.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Concertina shyness
You? Stuff a session up? I hardly think so! Anyway even if you did, nobody you play tunes with would give a sh1t
I have the afternoon off so will see you at Durty Nelly's for some tunes. Everyone's talking about the fact you're in town. You'd better have your concertina with you!
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Concertina shyness
Maybe its only because you can't hide behind it like you can other instruments that are more conspicuous. I am sure you are as fantastic at it as you are with everything else. Perhaps all you have to do is get used to the view.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Concertina shyness
I had the same problem with the box for a while. It's complicated enough to just play the tunes, and any bit of nerves makes it hard to play as well as I could at home.
What helped me was two things. Having simplified versions of tunes (without the rolls, say) just so I could get through the first couple of sets and relax a bit. The other was more practice with the metronome, so that I could prove to myself that I can actually play the tunes at the right speed. This is important, because the tendency is to want to speed up, even when I know that's going to cause a train-wreck. Studiously sticking to the tempo helped a lot.
I'm not saying that's necessarily your issue, but I've seen other box/concertina players do the same thing.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Gzeg
Re: Concertina shyness
Just reporting back here, she said: "F them if they can't take a joke."
That would be the technical side of things, I suppose?
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Concertina shyness
Well the only way to swim is by getting in the water, same with playing in public.
It can help to have steady musos to play with you can 'hide behind'.
Try working your way up to it.... play wit a friend as audience, then a few friends etc.... before jumping in the deep end.
Reading your 2nd post makes me think about the 2 halves of the brain.The technical stuff needs to be internalized to cross over from the learning intellectual side to the artistic performing side.
It could simply be you need more practice... you might think this mad but try practicing/playing while watching telly, or reading a book!
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Concertina shyness
The concertina can be a whicked instrument to play. It has two sides and you can't really watch what you're doing. So much about playing Irish music relies on muscle memory and it just takes feckin time to get it all to work.
For me the problem seems to be that I tense up in public and none of the subtle stuff I worked on seems to come through. At home it sounds much better, but I'm playing by myself with no pressure and everything works better. I'd say my abilities drop about 20% or more in public. Only after a few pints and if I'm relaxed does it start to sound the way I want it to.
When I first arrive at a session I try to follow others and not start tunes for a bit. Sometimes I have to start tunes right off, but I just lower my expectations and go for it. It just all takes so bloody long to learn -- especially with that blasted contraption. Sometimes I could swear it must have been damaged on the way to the pub, but then it works fine when I get it back home again.
What-a-ya gunna do?
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Concertina shyness
I don't get nervous playing sessions, but if I'm asked to start a set, I tremble, it's terrible. Uncontrollable, irrational fear. And you're a way better 'tina player than I am box player, so try not to worry about it. Remember that everyone you play with already knows what level you're at on the concertina, and no one is going to hold it against you if you make a few mistakes on what, your eighth instrument? Just jump in so far up the deep end that there's no turning back and you'll realise you can swim better than most!
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: Concertina shyness
Who invented the concertina? I believe at least one of the variations on the instruments was developed by a fellow named Wheatstone, more famous for a cipher he devised, quite a diabolical one in the pre-computer days. It figures, doesn't it?
As for shyness - well, it doesn't help to say "you'll be fine" but it's true. And once you find that you do fine, you do better the next time, because you're not so worried that you'll bung it up. And after a while, you do bung one up, and you find that that's fine too, and you're even less nervous next time. So yeah - you'll be fine.
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Concertina shyness
Kate, don't be shy. Just come on down to the Lommond on Monday night.
Uncle Dan and all the old folks there just love your concertina playing, and anything else you decide to grace us with too! See you there soon!
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by pushpullefty
Re: Concertina shyness
Wow! A few shout-outs to my homies -
kjay-bc_box, you're a wise man and a wicked box player and I will listen to your wisdom til the cows come home. I can't believe you modified your own box! You rock. Big time.
pushpullefty, I only wish I was home more Monday nights cos the Lowey is one of those mysterious Melbourne beasts that is unhinged, unpredictable and glorious. I'll try to make it to more....
Phantom Button, your name is incredibly apt since you seem to be what I'm always searching for. Where is that frickin G#????
Jig, I thought that it was only me that benefited from playing in front of the telly, but I'm glad to have someone back me up on that! It can work... but not if you're watching something crap like Neighbours.
Clear Drops, one day we'll make it to NT....
Dow, I miss you!! damn work, every time I see you you're rushing off. Come and hang with me, drink some oolong tea and show me what you do on that tina of yours.
And tombo, you rock. Crank it up like Meatloaf never knew how.
I'll never doubt again!!!!
Doesn't mean you can stop posting....
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
Sorry I had to rush off KB. I was already late for work! Thanks for the tunes and that nice song as well.
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Concertina shyness
Hey katiebee, Get yer buddies together and get a bluudy grant to do a gig at Araluen across the road (I think the current Director is a concertina player!!!). Something along the lines of that fabulous ABC Pure Drop stuff. I could name a couple of bands who have done it, give some instrument workshops, gig, then take some time to go down to The Rock, walk/cycle the Larapinta trail and have a look around the Red Centre - you wouldn't regret it I promise ya!
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Concertina shyness
Katie i think the shyness (particularly as was wittnessed on sunday) can be linked to a single cause, namely your obvious crush on a certain elderly box playing member of our community
. I really think that if you just told him how you felt and stopped playing this stupid, coy, cat and mouse flirting game you would loosen up and your playing would improve. Frankly i'm sick and tired of watching you drool into the concertina whilst staring longingly at you know who every time we have tunes!!
Get it together girl. Everyone knows. Nobody cares. Just hurry up and hook up with him!!! :p
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by late in the evening
Re: Concertina shyness
LOL @ late in the evening you are a very funny! I think you should listen to him katiebee!
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
Right, you smarty alecs! Last time I tell you about my penchant for geriatrics.
Drooling into the concertina keeps my bellows supple.
I can't believe I just wrote that.
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
ha ha ha
katiebee thats it you need help! leave mr accordian alone, i know he is handsome and good looking, and the way he moves his tongue makes ones stomach lurch...i mean leap, but surely you can look beyond that!
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
I think it's time for a poem.
There once was a concer called Tina...
no, that's bad. I'll start again.
There once was a fellow from Atherton
Who learned how to put a dog's catheter on.
I can't come up with anything more for that one. Back to the topic at hand... haiku might be what's required.
There are many players here
But who can say when
We will just get on and play?
xx
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
we need some late in the evening rhymning...yeee hommy dog!
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
Well her name is kate,
she plays the concertina,
when comes to hornpipes,
no one plays em meaner,
she can jig and reel all night and all day,
in any given style,
just not the key of A
How's that tombo??
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by late in the evening
Re: Concertina shyness
F*&k yeah!!!!!!!! you rock late in the evening hommy dog!!!! and what accent should i read that with?
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
think kind of a bogan aussie vanilla ice
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by late in the evening
Re: Concertina shyness
he he he
roight maan!
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
Right. That's it. I'm gonna go and learn..... something in A, and I'll show you! It's war on the mic, LITE. Wow! Late In the Evening abbreviated is LITE! Can I have my creampuff LITE, please?
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by katiebee
Re: Concertina shyness
Ah i miss you all....brings back memories of an awesome weekend!!!! I am no creampuff..but i am off to bed
cheerio lads and lasses!
# Posted on November 12th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Concertina shyness
On the original subject of this thread, I have a couple of theories which I stick to because it means I don't have to face the deep psychological meaning of my fearful behaviour at sessions.
1) The concertina is held a long way from your ears, and you get less "foldback". A fiddle player can really hear themselves because of the way the physical laws of sound work (thinking of square law here). They might be getting 10 times the volume in foldback we get.
I find what frightens me starting a set is that moment when everyone joins in, and I suddenly can't hear myself for a number of bars until everyone settles down. Depending on the number of players and the environment (carpet on the floor?) I might never hear myself again in the set. When practising I listen to myself acutely, and I feel lost when I can't.
2) The concertina always presents you with more than one alternative way of playing any phrase (I'm not talking about one of those simple instruments Dow plays). When you are playing Anglo you are constantly having to choose between these different paths. These choices can have ramifications later in the phrase, particularly in relation to the C# when playing in D on a 30 key.
More importantly, when you learn a tune you tend to learn it according to whichever path lends itself to the tune. This is great when you just learned the tune, but a year down the track when you have not played it for six months you will have forgotten the special provisions you made for each phrase and are left with that, "Oh Dog, I used to know this, why doesn't it feel right" moment, yet again...
I remember Michael Rooney saying at Chewton, concertina players only have about 10 tunes "worked up" at any moment, and this is the reason why...
Sorry to miss you on Sunday, I had to go about 3-30pm...
# Posted on November 13th 2007 by cag
Re: Concertina shyness
There was a concert called Tina
as a poet, she wasn't a has-beener,
she took lots of care
when playing, not to swear
and her limericks couldn't be cleaner
As far as metro-gnomes go, we all have a built-in pair - they are called feet. Mary MacNamara insists she can't start playing until she gets her feet going in time.
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Concertina shyness
Have you tried tapping your foot to a metronome? not as easy as it might seem!
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by piobagusfidil