Most of the ITM tunes I know are in D, G , E minor or A. I have a few in G minor and B minor, a couple in E major, a couple in F and a couple in B flat. One in E flat major. An awful lot of tunes are in D though. Can anybody suggest tunes in keys other than the ones I have mentioned? Or some additional ones in the rarer keys. I suppose tunes can be played in any key, but you would have to be a real Pagannini to make "The Mountain Road" sound authentic in D flat!
What the point be? It also depends a lot on the instrument you're playing. If you're a box player, it's easy to transpose keys where if you play the pipes, flute etc. you're stuck with what you've got.
Tunes \ Search \ choose your key from the drop down menu \ click 'Search'
Whatever you choose will include relative keys ~ D Mixolydian anyone?
Apples? Pears? Plums? Cherries? Pickled fish?
Dow's bio (Member #4763) will lead you to Lydian, Phrygian and Locrian tunes on this website which he has composed for our delectation. In the bio they are under “Some of my own compositions – Reels”, near the end of the file.
When I listen to this album by M.H. http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/157
I notice that he's in F, Gminor & perhaps a few other unusual keys.
The O'Carolan book has several tunes in unusual keys, I notice.
The New Land - a lovely waltz - is often played in C or F Major.
The twelve tone system is at your disposal. Don't like a key? Transpose it up or down a half tone... great for building up your chops, tickling your ears, impressing that guy in the mirror, and a swell chance to play solo at the next sessiun.
Just de-tune or odd-tune your fiddle and use the same fingerings... Alternately there's all those Cage possibilities with strings, and think of how lovely potential decorations would be, a feather here, glass beads there, coloured tongue depressors, string, clothes pegs, paper clips??? ~ and why not fiddle sticks? Another alternate approach would be to play your fiddle like they do the lyritsa of Eastern Europe, down the Adriatic Coast for example? I love that stuff... And as you're on key signatures, why not time signatures too? ~ back to the Balkans! But then, there's the Indian sub-continent, Asia? They have bowed instrments too...
Thanks for the comments, particularly to you coelachan for your usual witty observations. The reason this has come up is because I was doing a set list for a gig and realized that every tune I had picked was in D. How boring! Also, I gigged with a band the other day and had to play a solo riff in B and realized I had never played in this key before! (Thanks for those B mix tunes ceolachan). B flat and E flat are really good keys for the fiddle (closed keys) but I find the ones with loads of sharps difficult.
Easy. Find a button-accordionist with a BC accordion and get him to play the normal tunes on the outside row, then enjoy playing along in B, E and F# Major, and modal tunes starting on C#, F# and G#!
Alternately, play along with a Northumbrian piper whose instrument is pitched in "nominal G", which is somewhere near F#.
Don't forget, Rob, that F, Bb, and Eb on whistles and keyless flutes are extremely user-unfriendly. Our session regularly plays "Cook In The Kitchen" and that F natural drives me crazy every time.
Who luvs yuh Rob ~ I'm having trouble as I'm about to quote myself from the 'comments' of another tune where swisspiper and I were extolling the virtues of Shamrocks ~
"We should be playing a lot of phrygian tunes over winter shouldn't we? And then there's ~
Lydian, Oh Lydian, say, have you played Lydian?
Lydian that overlooked mode.
It has quirks some folks adore,
and a scale so bizarre.
Lydian, oh Lydian, that encrypto-pidian.
Oh Lydian The Queen of queer modes."
Grand Spey (Graf Spee?) (I know it was mentioned above) is a great tune in C. I wonder why it is in C. There's Waltz for Polle, which we always play in C though I don't know how usual that is.
I like drone's psat the best. "impressing that guy in the mirror". (tee he)
But there is actualy a correlation between root notes and range in this music that hasn't beem mentioned yet.
The basic range for that vast majority of our music is from the open D on the fiddle to the top B on the E string. That's not even two octaves. And this vast majority of these tunes use only the notes D, E, occasionally F natural, Fsharp, G, occasionally Gsharp, A, B, C and Csharp .
And this is where the beauty sits. It's about finding beautiful combinations of notes that fall within this range, but gravitate towards roots that include D, E, occasionally F, occasionally Fsharp, G, A , B and occasionally C,
So basically it's the range that is interesting, not the key.
Take tunes in Gmaj for example. Their range is from the 5th under the root to an octave and a majot 3rd. This range is very important to the tune's character.
And a tune in Dmaj hae a range of the root to an octave and a 6th.
And a tune in Bfat maj has a range from the maj 3rd below (D) to the root at the top.
Llig
Now that IS interesting. (I mean it !)
I play fiddle and hadn't thought much about the range versus the key, in relation to a tune's character. Thanks for the observation.
It does grate on me when tune after tune is played in the same key...
>It's about finding beautiful combinations of notes that fall within this range
You're sounding like a minimalist. Not a praise or condemnation, just an observation.
I agree that the range of notes in a melody in conjunction with the selected key is fundamental to the style. But isn't the trend to construct melodies in this manner imposed mostly by the original instrumentation and the technical facility of the players? If each note on a fiddle was as easy to play as hitting a key on a piano, would the style still have evolved as it has? Another way think about it is to consider where the older melodies that set the foundation for what is played today came from. Were they sung first, whistled, or just a few fiddlers playing repetitive riffs over dance steps?
Beautifully expressed monkey440. I'm not familiar with a huge amount of Classical violin repertoire, but I suppose you could say the same apples to Bach for instance (ie fiddle friendly keys).
The music is harmonically minimalist. And I always praise it for that. I see it as one of its great strengths. And when you embrace this, you should realise the vain futility of searching for tunes that are in "more interesting keys."
I'd venture to guess that composers in Bach's league (minus the fruit deliveries) are intentionally balancing several concerns when they compose, not primarily looking to make the piece accessible to any player down at the pub. There's a reason nearly every composer writes their first violin concerto in D - because that key sounds so good on a multi-million dollar violin.
Rhythmically dense - I agree. Has there been a post where the more popular/complex rhythm patterns have been discussed? There's a lot of fast fiddle riffs which are more rhythmic bowing tricks than anything else that I'm just not finding spelled out in sheet music, but I sure hear the more advanced players employing quite a bit. I hear it more in specifically Irish players than others. They are usually executed at fast tempos so its difficult to detect if they are picked up from slur patterns, string crossings, etc.
Tunes in more interesting keys please
Tunes in more interesting keys please
Most of the ITM tunes I know are in D, G , E minor or A. I have a few in G minor and B minor, a couple in E major, a couple in F and a couple in B flat. One in E flat major. An awful lot of tunes are in D though. Can anybody suggest tunes in keys other than the ones I have mentioned? Or some additional ones in the rarer keys. I suppose tunes can be played in any key, but you would have to be a real Pagannini to make "The Mountain Road" sound authentic in D flat!
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Fiddle Fancier
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
What the point be? It also depends a lot on the instrument you're playing. If you're a box player, it's easy to transpose keys where if you play the pipes, flute etc. you're stuck with what you've got.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by meemtp
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Hmmmm... ~
Tunes \ Search \ choose your key from the drop down menu \ click 'Search'
Whatever you choose will include relative keys ~ D Mixolydian anyone?
Apples? Pears? Plums? Cherries? Pickled fish?
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
The search function in the tunes section allows you to search by key, though not all keys are listed. A few come up for A minor, for instance.
Personally, I like tunes in D. But then, I'm a fiddler
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
There's only 3 of these so far ~
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index/search?name=&type_id=&mode_id=13
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
There are a few Lydian and Phrygian around, but I'll leave you to figure those out... Heh, heh, heh...
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
One problem you'll have is that 'we' don't always get it right...
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Dow's bio (Member #4763) will lead you to Lydian, Phrygian and Locrian tunes on this website which he has composed for our delectation. In the bio they are under “Some of my own compositions – Reels”, near the end of the file.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
but who will you play with in all these weird keys?
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
When I listen to this album by M.H. http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/157
I notice that he's in F, Gminor & perhaps a few other unusual keys.
The O'Carolan book has several tunes in unusual keys, I notice.
The New Land - a lovely waltz - is often played in C or F Major.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by morning star
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
There are lots of good C tunes, like My Maryanne and the Graf Spee. I think Clare in particular has a lot of C and F tunes; give her a look about?
--DtM
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
The twelve tone system is at your disposal. Don't like a key? Transpose it up or down a half tone... great for building up your chops, tickling your ears, impressing that guy in the mirror, and a swell chance to play solo at the next sessiun.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by drone
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Just de-tune or odd-tune your fiddle and use the same fingerings... Alternately there's all those Cage possibilities with strings, and think of how lovely potential decorations would be, a feather here, glass beads there, coloured tongue depressors, string, clothes pegs, paper clips??? ~ and why not fiddle sticks? Another alternate approach would be to play your fiddle like they do the lyritsa of Eastern Europe, down the Adriatic Coast for example? I love that stuff... And as you're on key signatures, why not time signatures too? ~ back to the Balkans! But then, there's the Indian sub-continent, Asia? They have bowed instrments too...
Good one hounddog, send him Mark's way!
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
If you want a real laugh, fill your fiddle, safely, with beads or beans and give that a go...
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Thanks for the comments, particularly to you coelachan for your usual witty observations. The reason this has come up is because I was doing a set list for a gig and realized that every tune I had picked was in D. How boring! Also, I gigged with a band the other day and had to play a solo riff in B and realized I had never played in this key before! (Thanks for those B mix tunes ceolachan). B flat and E flat are really good keys for the fiddle (closed keys) but I find the ones with loads of sharps difficult.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Fiddle Fancier
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Easy. Find a button-accordionist with a BC accordion and get him to play the normal tunes on the outside row, then enjoy playing along in B, E and F# Major, and modal tunes starting on C#, F# and G#!
Alternately, play along with a Northumbrian piper whose instrument is pitched in "nominal G", which is somewhere near F#.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Don't forget, Rob, that F, Bb, and Eb on whistles and keyless flutes are extremely user-unfriendly. Our session regularly plays "Cook In The Kitchen" and that F natural drives me crazy every time.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Who luvs yuh Rob ~ I'm having trouble as I'm about to quote myself from the 'comments' of another tune where swisspiper and I were extolling the virtues of Shamrocks ~
"We should be playing a lot of phrygian tunes over winter shouldn't we? And then there's ~
Lydian, Oh Lydian, say, have you played Lydian?
Lydian that overlooked mode.
It has quirks some folks adore,
and a scale so bizarre.
Lydian, oh Lydian, that encrypto-pidian.
Oh Lydian The Queen of queer modes."
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!"
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Grand Spey (Graf Spee?) (I know it was mentioned above) is a great tune in C. I wonder why it is in C. There's Waltz for Polle, which we always play in C though I don't know how usual that is.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
I like drone's psat the best. "impressing that guy in the mirror". (tee he)
But there is actualy a correlation between root notes and range in this music that hasn't beem mentioned yet.
The basic range for that vast majority of our music is from the open D on the fiddle to the top B on the E string. That's not even two octaves. And this vast majority of these tunes use only the notes D, E, occasionally F natural, Fsharp, G, occasionally Gsharp, A, B, C and Csharp .
And this is where the beauty sits. It's about finding beautiful combinations of notes that fall within this range, but gravitate towards roots that include D, E, occasionally F, occasionally Fsharp, G, A , B and occasionally C,
So basically it's the range that is interesting, not the key.
Take tunes in Gmaj for example. Their range is from the 5th under the root to an octave and a majot 3rd. This range is very important to the tune's character.
And a tune in Dmaj hae a range of the root to an octave and a 6th.
And a tune in Bfat maj has a range from the maj 3rd below (D) to the root at the top.
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ...
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Llig
Now that IS interesting. (I mean it !)
I play fiddle and hadn't thought much about the range versus the key, in relation to a tune's character. Thanks for the observation.
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by domhnall.
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
transpose?
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
It does grate on me when tune after tune is played in the same key...
>It's about finding beautiful combinations of notes that fall within this range
You're sounding like a minimalist. Not a praise or condemnation, just an observation.
I agree that the range of notes in a melody in conjunction with the selected key is fundamental to the style. But isn't the trend to construct melodies in this manner imposed mostly by the original instrumentation and the technical facility of the players? If each note on a fiddle was as easy to play as hitting a key on a piano, would the style still have evolved as it has? Another way think about it is to consider where the older melodies that set the foundation for what is played today came from. Were they sung first, whistled, or just a few fiddlers playing repetitive riffs over dance steps?
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by monkey440
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Beautifully expressed monkey440. I'm not familiar with a huge amount of Classical violin repertoire, but I suppose you could say the same apples to Bach for instance (ie fiddle friendly keys).
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by Fiddle Fancier
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
The music is harmonically minimalist. And I always praise it for that. I see it as one of its great strengths. And when you embrace this, you should realise the vain futility of searching for tunes that are in "more interesting keys."
Rhythmically, however, it's very dense.
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ...
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Lydian if you choose to ~
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7779/comments
# Posted on September 28th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
Apples to Bach, Rob? Raspberries to Handel say I!
# Posted on September 28th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Tunes in more interesting keys please
I'd venture to guess that composers in Bach's league (minus the fruit deliveries) are intentionally balancing several concerns when they compose, not primarily looking to make the piece accessible to any player down at the pub. There's a reason nearly every composer writes their first violin concerto in D - because that key sounds so good on a multi-million dollar violin.
Rhythmically dense - I agree. Has there been a post where the more popular/complex rhythm patterns have been discussed? There's a lot of fast fiddle riffs which are more rhythmic bowing tricks than anything else that I'm just not finding spelled out in sheet music, but I sure hear the more advanced players employing quite a bit. I hear it more in specifically Irish players than others. They are usually executed at fast tempos so its difficult to detect if they are picked up from slur patterns, string crossings, etc.
# Posted on September 28th 2007 by monkey440