Hello Kathryn. I do not play the violin & probably should not try to answer. Except to say it is good to enjoy playing music.
Learning music can be challenging. I wanted to let everyone see your previous thread. It might help their comments. http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15248/
I believe many people on TheSession want to encourage you toward music played in a session. I hope you get the chance to hear some ITM players in an actual session. Then you will see why we think it more fun than "grades".
Grades as in classical have little relevance to Irish traditional music. However, the SCT exams set up by Comhaltas have many advantages for people starting out in trad as they offer a graduated path from beginner through the various stages to top class trad player. See http://comhaltas.ie/education/sct_exam/ for further details. The starting point at Elementary Cycle 1 caters for musicians who can manage tunes such as Peg Ryan's Polka while at Senior Cycle 4, musicians are expected to not only perform reels, jigs and hornpipes but also flings, mazurkas, barndances, etc. An understanding of th tradition is also required for the musical knowledge aspect where candidates are expected to offer a 1200 word thesis on a traditional music topic. These exams were originally introduced for musicians not interested in competition but who'd like to mark their progress in some other way and I think that they've been successful in this regard.
Screetch, in the UK the examination grades for violin (and other instruments) are organised by the Associated Board and Trinity College, and provide, as the name suggests, a graded progession via the classical repertoire (mainly) from raw beginner up to grade 8.
Grade 8 is the portal to the fully professional degree level qualifications of Associate, Licentiate and Fellow, and is equivalent I suppose to university entry level. I think you'd require grade 8 in most cases for admittance to a full-time course at one of the big music Colleges.
Screetch if you are considering long term goals they can probably help you at Trinity College. http://www.tcd.ie/Music/admission.php
Trinity offers three undergraduate degree courses in music: single honor BA in music alone (SH); two-subject moderatorship BA in music plus another subject (TSM), and bachelor in music education (BMusEd).
All entrants to the Music Department’s SH and TSM degree programmes must have a good ear, and must be able to play four-part keyboard harmony at sight. Apart from having basic keyboard skills, entrants do not need to be proficient instrumentalists. For good players, however, a performance option is available in the third year, and many of Trinity’s music graduates pursue careers as professional musicians.
For those who don't know them, I think the UK "music grades" that play a big part in classical music education there have a generally similar function to the work a lot of kids do in Ireland to try to get somewhere in the CCE competitions. The field is different, the country is different, but I suspect that many of the arguments for and against are similar.
well, here we have graders. They are big road machines with blades, kinda like snowploughs but flatter, and they even out the dirt roads, and gravelly roads.
MMM.. so, "graders" level things out. Does this help?
From her previous post, Kathryn is worried about her progress and needs some reassurance. Unfortunately this is the wrong place for advice about progress through the AB grades, but she probably has nowhere else.
Kathryn, the important thing is to do the best *you* can and try to achieve *your* potential . . . but . . . do you have a one-to-one lesson every week or are you learning in a group with a county peripatetic teacher and only getting 30 or so lessons a year? How much practice are you able to do? Do you have somewhere to play other than in lessons (school orchestra, session)? How good is your fiddle? Is it set up right? If you feel that you are being held back by one or more of these, you have to see what you can do - difficult, I know, if you are only 11.
My experience with youth music is, some people take exams in their stride. They are usually the ones who have somewhere to play for pleasure. Others suffer, usually the ones who never play to anyone except their teacher and the examiner. Progress is very variable.
Traditional musicians tend not to do grades per se. It's worth remembering that the classical grade exams are only a guideline as to how well you played a particular piece on a particular day and aren't really a measure of your musicianship. It is perfectly possible to reach grade 8 only having ever played 20 pieces or so and learnt the scales for the grades - this won't make you a rounded musician but will get you the piece of paper.
Concentrate on becoming a good fiddler, or a good classical violinist, and don't worry about the exams - they don' really prove anything (I have G8 touting friends who play terribly and one particular friend who only ever did G3 piano but plays magnificently.)
If you'd like specific advice on ABRSM graded examinations, they have their own forum where the folks are very friendly and will be able to give you all the advice you want. You can find them here : http://forums.abrsm.org
As a teenager, I learned to play a jigs
and my very first sessions were pigs
But the Uni of Limerick
Sounds just the trick
So I can get one or two gigs
Themuse, you can download a copy of the syllabus for the SCT exams from the Comhaltas site over at http://comhaltas.ie/press_room/detail/sct_syllabus/. In short the 12 levels go from "Fáinne Geal an Lae" standard at Elementary 1 to 5 part reels (plus every other type of Irish tune) at Senior Cycle 4. Successful completion of the exams, as far as I know, qualifies one to take the TTCT teachers diploma course.
Specifically about grades, there's a great deal of support too on the ABRSM forums (they administer the exams after all) - pretty good discussion and you'll find people of all ages / experiences there. Worth a look (but stick with us too!!).
I happen to think that is great. The Irish tunes follow scales. You are probably learning major scales & their relative minors, like G major & E minor. These could be considered as "modes" in traditional music. Irish uses a few modes: Dorian, Aeolian, & Mixolydian. Sorry for the lesson. I just happen to play scales myself. Try not to let everyone at TheSession know.
"grades are things you pass to show how good you are at playing an instrument" - this is one way of looking at it but I'd argue that they should assist you in developing your skills, repertoire and knowledge (as does the SCT exams) in order to eventually become a better traditional player. Admittedly the likes of maestros such as Denis Murphy, Pádraig O'Keefe, Micho Russell didn't have nor never needed grades to become great, but then they grew up in a different environment which was more conducive to the tradition.
it seems from the comments that many believe that grades are only for classical imstruments such as the voilin.
i am currently doin my grades by playing traditional music on the whistle and button acordion. its not "enjoyable" but as a 16 yr old, if i achieve a pass t grade 8 in my instruments, it is the same as having an extra A grade A -level and so will be very useful in future. Also it is a vindication for hard work practicing etc and having grades makes people from other genres take trad. musicians more seriously were playing ITM can be waved away as being for amateures only.
grades
grades
are you supposed to enjoy grades? i think of them as plain scary. what do you think of grades?
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Kathryn123
Re: grades
Grades? What grades?
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Marklar
Re: grades
do you mean grades in sex.
or grades in people as in Brave new World,Alpha,Beta,etc
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: grades
Hello Kathryn. I do not play the violin & probably should not try to answer. Except to say it is good to enjoy playing music.
Learning music can be challenging. I wanted to let everyone see your previous thread. It might help their comments.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15248/
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: grades
I think she's talking about sandpaper. 80 grit's quite scary.
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: grades
I don't know anything about violin grades...must be a UK thing.
But I do know that they have nothing to do with playing trad. Do you enjoy playing? That's all that really matters.
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Marklar
Re: grades
i think they're good for guidance but totally unecessary for your development as a musician.
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by mehitabel23
Re: grades
I believe many people on TheSession want to encourage you toward music played in a session. I hope you get the chance to hear some ITM players in an actual session. Then you will see why we think it more fun than "grades".
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: grades
Grades as in classical have little relevance to Irish traditional music. However, the SCT exams set up by Comhaltas have many advantages for people starting out in trad as they offer a graduated path from beginner through the various stages to top class trad player. See http://comhaltas.ie/education/sct_exam/ for further details. The starting point at Elementary Cycle 1 caters for musicians who can manage tunes such as Peg Ryan's Polka while at Senior Cycle 4, musicians are expected to not only perform reels, jigs and hornpipes but also flings, mazurkas, barndances, etc. An understanding of th tradition is also required for the musical knowledge aspect where candidates are expected to offer a 1200 word thesis on a traditional music topic. These exams were originally introduced for musicians not interested in competition but who'd like to mark their progress in some other way and I think that they've been successful in this regard.
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: grades
Screetch, in the UK the examination grades for violin (and other instruments) are organised by the Associated Board and Trinity College, and provide, as the name suggests, a graded progession via the classical repertoire (mainly) from raw beginner up to grade 8.
Grade 8 is the portal to the fully professional degree level qualifications of Associate, Licentiate and Fellow, and is equivalent I suppose to university entry level. I think you'd require grade 8 in most cases for admittance to a full-time course at one of the big music Colleges.
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: grades
So if you get the right grade, you automatically qualify to attend a music college or join an orchestra? Or do you still have to audition?
# Posted on September 23rd 2007 by Marklar
Re: grades
Screetch if you are considering long term goals they can probably help you at Trinity College.
http://www.tcd.ie/Music/admission.php
Trinity offers three undergraduate degree courses in music: single honor BA in music alone (SH); two-subject moderatorship BA in music plus another subject (TSM), and bachelor in music education (BMusEd).
All entrants to the Music Department’s SH and TSM degree programmes must have a good ear, and must be able to play four-part keyboard harmony at sight. Apart from having basic keyboard skills, entrants do not need to be proficient instrumentalists. For good players, however, a performance option is available in the third year, and many of Trinity’s music graduates pursue careers as professional musicians.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Tonya
Re: grades
Thanks, but I was just curious about how it works in the UK, I gave up classical playing a long time ago
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Marklar
Re: grades
Not to worry. There is always the University of Limerick;
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/7323
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Tonya
Re: grades
For those who don't know them, I think the UK "music grades" that play a big part in classical music education there have a generally similar function to the work a lot of kids do in Ireland to try to get somewhere in the CCE competitions. The field is different, the country is different, but I suspect that many of the arguments for and against are similar.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: grades
I see. Comhaltas has Scrúdu Ceol Tíre exams with 12 grades. Forgive me, I don't know anything about it.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: grades
I like all the grades - Glackin, People, Canny etc. They're all grade.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Hup
Re: grades
well, here we have graders. They are big road machines with blades, kinda like snowploughs but flatter, and they even out the dirt roads, and gravelly roads.
MMM.. so, "graders" level things out. Does this help?
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by vboyd100
Re: grades
Guys,
Kathryn123 is 11 years old (or at least that's what her user info says).
A little more decorum, perhaps?
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Georgi
Re: grades
From her previous post, Kathryn is worried about her progress and needs some reassurance. Unfortunately this is the wrong place for advice about progress through the AB grades, but she probably has nowhere else.
Kathryn, the important thing is to do the best *you* can and try to achieve *your* potential . . . but . . . do you have a one-to-one lesson every week or are you learning in a group with a county peripatetic teacher and only getting 30 or so lessons a year? How much practice are you able to do? Do you have somewhere to play other than in lessons (school orchestra, session)? How good is your fiddle? Is it set up right? If you feel that you are being held back by one or more of these, you have to see what you can do - difficult, I know, if you are only 11.
My experience with youth music is, some people take exams in their stride. They are usually the ones who have somewhere to play for pleasure. Others suffer, usually the ones who never play to anyone except their teacher and the examiner. Progress is very variable.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by c.g.
Re: grades
Kathryn,
Traditional musicians tend not to do grades per se. It's worth remembering that the classical grade exams are only a guideline as to how well you played a particular piece on a particular day and aren't really a measure of your musicianship. It is perfectly possible to reach grade 8 only having ever played 20 pieces or so and learnt the scales for the grades - this won't make you a rounded musician but will get you the piece of paper.
Concentrate on becoming a good fiddler, or a good classical violinist, and don't worry about the exams - they don' really prove anything (I have G8 touting friends who play terribly and one particular friend who only ever did G3 piano but plays magnificently.)
If you'd like specific advice on ABRSM graded examinations, they have their own forum where the folks are very friendly and will be able to give you all the advice you want. You can find them here : http://forums.abrsm.org
Enjoy your playing.
Allan
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by rosfrog
Re: Uni of Limerick
As a teenager, I learned to play a jigs
and my very first sessions were pigs
But the Uni of Limerick
Sounds just the trick
So I can get one or two gigs
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: grades
Themuse, you can download a copy of the syllabus for the SCT exams from the Comhaltas site over at http://comhaltas.ie/press_room/detail/sct_syllabus/. In short the 12 levels go from "Fáinne Geal an Lae" standard at Elementary 1 to 5 part reels (plus every other type of Irish tune) at Senior Cycle 4. Successful completion of the exams, as far as I know, qualifies one to take the TTCT teachers diploma course.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: grades
Hi Kathryn,
Specifically about grades, there's a great deal of support too on the ABRSM forums (they administer the exams after all) - pretty good discussion and you'll find people of all ages / experiences there. Worth a look (but stick with us too!!).
Abrsm forums at http://forums.abrsm.org/index.php?showforum=24
Good luck with the playing - it's all worth it!!
Mark
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: grades
grades are things you pass to show how good you are at playing an instrument. im on grade one which means i can play certain scales .
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Kathryn123
Re: grades
I happen to think that is great. The Irish tunes follow scales. You are probably learning major scales & their relative minors, like G major & E minor. These could be considered as "modes" in traditional music. Irish uses a few modes: Dorian, Aeolian, & Mixolydian. Sorry for the lesson. I just happen to play scales myself. Try not to let everyone at TheSession know.
# Posted on September 24th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: grades
"grades are things you pass to show how good you are at playing an instrument" - this is one way of looking at it but I'd argue that they should assist you in developing your skills, repertoire and knowledge (as does the SCT exams) in order to eventually become a better traditional player. Admittedly the likes of maestros such as Denis Murphy, Pádraig O'Keefe, Micho Russell didn't have nor never needed grades to become great, but then they grew up in a different environment which was more conducive to the tradition.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: grades
it seems from the comments that many believe that grades are only for classical imstruments such as the voilin.
i am currently doin my grades by playing traditional music on the whistle and button acordion. its not "enjoyable" but as a 16 yr old, if i achieve a pass t grade 8 in my instruments, it is the same as having an extra A grade A -level and so will be very useful in future. Also it is a vindication for hard work practicing etc and having grades makes people from other genres take trad. musicians more seriously were playing ITM can be waved away as being for amateures only.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Cian O Gallchobhair