This HAS showed up at our sessions, played by its creator, and sounds great. The maker, Duncan Gillis, is a fine traditional musician and plays a mean whistle, Irish flute, highland bagpipe, among other things.
Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Ian
Ian, nothing personal. We're all very suspicious of anything new, thus the 'traditional' modifier. Everyone on this site secretly wants the hang drum, but would have their fingers cut off before they would admit it.
OK, I had a listen to it - if Ian says it sounds great I'll have to take his word for it. But it seems to me this is what the low whistle is to the Boehm flute in saxophone/clarinet terms. Fine if your session is eclectic enough to handle such innovation.
But Danny, not wanting to stomp on your parade as a flute player but the whistle/low whistle is not inferior to the flute as your comment seems to imply - it is just different. It produces a different sound and is not an inferior option.
It tends to annoy me that people seem to consider a whistle to be something to learn before you move on to a 'proper' instrument. It is, in the right hands a wonderful instrument - and also a very traditional one.
Re-reading your post I may have misinterpreted what you meant and if so I am sorry. Could you explain again then as I am not sure what you mean.
I have listened to the 'Rolling Wave' clip and think it sounds great. I would love one but it is a little beyond my price range just now - as is anything I can't buy with £10 of Asda vouchers.
It does sound a lot like a clarinet but I suppose it would as that is what it essentially is but with whistle fingering. I am not sure how it links in to the Highland Hornpipe but that is another matter altogether.
I used to be all for unusual instruments in sessions. I have this thing called a turkish banjo which I thought was a great little thing and used it in sessions for a while, but then as I got to know the music more and more I realised that certain instrumental timbres can ruin the overall sound of a session.
If an instrument doesn't blend well with the overall sound it can really stick out and detract from everything. Fiddle, Pipes, Flute and whistle all tend to blend very well together. Fiddle and Accordion can blend well as can banjo and accordion or mandolin and fiddle, for that reason when all these instruments come together an overall 'blending' occurs. Once an instrunment that doesn't blend so well comes into it, it can upset the balance.
This instrument sounds very like a bass clarinet or a baritone sax played in a mellow style. While it's interesting I can see it having problems blending well into an Irish session. I've been in sessions with saxaphones and they tend to stick out like a sore thumb, they work well in certain combinations as in John Carty's group 'At the Racket' so I could see it fitting in in a niche way.
The other problem is the octave it plays in makes it stick out even more. Most trad instruments don't go that low, sometimes accordionists play in a low octave for effect and that can be very nice, but this is only done very occasionally. If it is played constantly at that octave during a session I can see it being very imposing and detracting, much like a bassist playing the tunes rather than accompaniment
I don't want to sound like an old stick in the mud, I'm always open to new things and in a solo or duo context this could be a very interesting instrument, it would probably work well in an English session were you often find everything including the kitchen sink, the group Bellowhead might be interested in it, but in a general Irish session situation it could be frankly as annoying as I'm sure my turkish banjo was to some people!
It is a different sound for sure, and "At the Racket" is a good performance-based comparison. In the sessions I've been to with Duncan he uses it very sparingly - it's just there as part of his collection of whistles, etc. As you say Danny, the nature of the session is a factor.
Cheers,
Ian
I should add he's recorded with it on a couple of CDs - notably Ecosse is a band fronted by Scottish singer Bobby Watt and includes Duncan Gillis and James Stephens.
Google away....
yes Ian, generalising here, but if it were a hard line quality Irish trad session in Ireland for example, it might not go down so well as if it appeared in a more eclectic session as you'd be likely to get in a British city, where hurdy-gurdys, Northumbrian pipes and this yoke would be almost standard fare.
Alasdair, as it happens I didn't intend my comments to denigrate low whistles compared to flutes, and that's in all honesty. But, since you mentioned it, personally I don't like low whistles vis a vis flutes, either simple or Boehm system ones. I feel the flute is a far superior instrument. That's purely a personal opinion, but I'm sure another can of worms has just been opened now.
I was taken with the Rolling Wave clip. Evidently the old Hornpipe (the instrument, that is) is being revived just as the hurdy-gurdy and various bagpipes have been, with no doubt many experiments and mistakes along the way, and it certainly has the credentials as a folk instrument to justify its being brought back from the past and tried out, at least, in the folk / trad scene. Where it will fit in best is for more experiment to indicate. I've no doubt it would find a niche in English trad, which is able to accommodate a very catholic range of instruments.
...in fact, I bet you could do a "combo" instrument with this hornpipe / clarinet beastie sticking out of the hole in the bottom of the hang drum. Therefore you turn it upside-down to do the wind thing, and maybe get a passer-by to do the drum thing.
Just stumbled across this as I'm researching hornpipe (the instruments). I have a Whistle Player's Hornpipe among several other types. I enjoy it immensely. I don't see any evidence that it was ever intended as more than a special effect/colour in folk music for when you want to get really bassy. Its EXTREMELY low end and resonant. There's nothing quite like it (no, not any clarinet like it either, its much less 'refined', less 'tame' than clarinet).
@srt19170 , quote: " 'Tin whistle/flute fingering and ornaments transfer directly to the Whistle Player’s Hornpipe' and then 'Another feature of straight-bored reed instruments is that the second register fingerings play an octave and a 5th higher instead of an octave.' One of these things is not like the other!"
The fingering is whistle fingering (plus a back thumb-hole). How it overblows doesn't in any way change that fact.
@brianc and kevo32A Sounds like you weren't listening to the second register. There is only one track on the website that goes into the second register (Fairy Song I think ?) I play clarinet. That does not sound like the clarinet register and to my ear does sound similar to the uillean pipe chanter (which I've been listening to since the early 70's). But then ears differ too.
To me that "Port na bPuca" does sound more like a clarinet than anything else, across the whole range. He's doing a whole bunch of sliding attacks; in the low register he seems to be using his fingers like a whistle player, but in the high register he's doing some of it by embouchure changes, which are something we've come to expect from jazz clarinet. They aren't essential to the instrument, so part of the slight alien-ness of the sound is due to what he's heard rather than what he's got in his hands. (BTW is the current wide use of pressure-controlled sliding on the uillean pipes an inheritance from jazz? - the effect is often very similar).
Some mouthpieces lend themselves to that sort of thing more than others - I use an O'Brien glass mouthpiece on my Turkish clarinet these days, and it doesn't respond much to attempts to change pitch by embouchure. Suits me, I want to play pretty straight. I would guess these Whistle Player's Hornpipes come with cheap plastic mouthpieces, and they often give you more malleable pitch. If you haven't played a clarinet before you might be surprised how big a difference the mouthpiece makes.
When they first came out, the "hornpipes" were a bit of a ripoff, as you could get a Turkish clarinet for the same money and have an instrument with a lot of added functionality. Now the Turkish clarinets are much more expensive and the hornpipes are becoming extinct, so it's a matter of getting whichever you can locate and afford.
The guy is trying too hard on "The Silver Spear" - his countermelody would work better with less notes.
Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
After looking at dafydd's Bodhrandidgeridoo, and wondering when I'd see one, I found THIS while surfing through www.bobdunsire.com, a great GHB site-
http://www.highlandhornpipe.com/whistle_index.html
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Hmmm - I think they've reinvented the clarinet. Can't imagine it in a session, unless accompanying the Hang-Drum and didgeridoo...
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
'Jeez H Christ, chief, that's a twenty-footer.'
'Twenty-five. Three tons on 'im.'
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by sergeant fox
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
By which, I mean, a Great White Elephant as opposed to shark.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by sergeant fox
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
It even quacks like a duck, I mean clarinet.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
This one looks a lot more fun! (Sorry about the long url)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2005/06/09/090605_cox_radish_clarinet_feature.shtml
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Theo Gibb
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Davydd. I'm dafydd.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
This site annoys me because it first says:
"Tin whistle/flute fingering and ornaments transfer directly to the Whistle Player’s Hornpipe"
and then
"Another feature of straight-bored reed instruments is that the second register fingerings play an octave and a 5th higher instead of an octave."
One of these things is not like the other!
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by srt19170
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Even better than the last one we had. It has a funnel for pouring the petrol into it. No spillage.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
This HAS showed up at our sessions, played by its creator, and sounds great. The maker, Duncan Gillis, is a fine traditional musician and plays a mean whistle, Irish flute, highland bagpipe, among other things.
Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Ian
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by ian clark
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
But it is "ornamented with a sterling silver Celtic ring." How can you fault that?
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Michele Sims
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Ian, nothing personal. We're all very suspicious of anything new, thus the 'traditional' modifier. Everyone on this site secretly wants the hang drum, but would have their fingers cut off before they would admit it.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Michele Sims
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
OK, I had a listen to it - if Ian says it sounds great I'll have to take his word for it. But it seems to me this is what the low whistle is to the Boehm flute in saxophone/clarinet terms. Fine if your session is eclectic enough to handle such innovation.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
But Danny, not wanting to stomp on your parade as a flute player but the whistle/low whistle is not inferior to the flute as your comment seems to imply - it is just different. It produces a different sound and is not an inferior option.
It tends to annoy me that people seem to consider a whistle to be something to learn before you move on to a 'proper' instrument. It is, in the right hands a wonderful instrument - and also a very traditional one.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Re-reading your post I may have misinterpreted what you meant and if so I am sorry. Could you explain again then as I am not sure what you mean.
I have listened to the 'Rolling Wave' clip and think it sounds great. I would love one but it is a little beyond my price range just now - as is anything I can't buy with £10 of Asda vouchers.
It does sound a lot like a clarinet but I suppose it would as that is what it essentially is but with whistle fingering. I am not sure how it links in to the Highland Hornpipe but that is another matter altogether.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
I used to be all for unusual instruments in sessions. I have this thing called a turkish banjo which I thought was a great little thing and used it in sessions for a while, but then as I got to know the music more and more I realised that certain instrumental timbres can ruin the overall sound of a session.
If an instrument doesn't blend well with the overall sound it can really stick out and detract from everything. Fiddle, Pipes, Flute and whistle all tend to blend very well together. Fiddle and Accordion can blend well as can banjo and accordion or mandolin and fiddle, for that reason when all these instruments come together an overall 'blending' occurs. Once an instrunment that doesn't blend so well comes into it, it can upset the balance.
This instrument sounds very like a bass clarinet or a baritone sax played in a mellow style. While it's interesting I can see it having problems blending well into an Irish session. I've been in sessions with saxaphones and they tend to stick out like a sore thumb, they work well in certain combinations as in John Carty's group 'At the Racket' so I could see it fitting in in a niche way.
The other problem is the octave it plays in makes it stick out even more. Most trad instruments don't go that low, sometimes accordionists play in a low octave for effect and that can be very nice, but this is only done very occasionally. If it is played constantly at that octave during a session I can see it being very imposing and detracting, much like a bassist playing the tunes rather than accompaniment
I don't want to sound like an old stick in the mud, I'm always open to new things and in a solo or duo context this could be a very interesting instrument, it would probably work well in an English session were you often find everything including the kitchen sink, the group Bellowhead might be interested in it, but in a general Irish session situation it could be frankly as annoying as I'm sure my turkish banjo was to some people!
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
It is a different sound for sure, and "At the Racket" is a good performance-based comparison. In the sessions I've been to with Duncan he uses it very sparingly - it's just there as part of his collection of whistles, etc. As you say Danny, the nature of the session is a factor.
Cheers,
Ian
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by ian clark
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
I should add he's recorded with it on a couple of CDs - notably Ecosse is a band fronted by Scottish singer Bobby Watt and includes Duncan Gillis and James Stephens.
Google away....
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by ian clark
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
yes Ian, generalising here, but if it were a hard line quality Irish trad session in Ireland for example, it might not go down so well as if it appeared in a more eclectic session as you'd be likely to get in a British city, where hurdy-gurdys, Northumbrian pipes and this yoke would be almost standard fare.
Alasdair, as it happens I didn't intend my comments to denigrate low whistles compared to flutes, and that's in all honesty. But, since you mentioned it, personally I don't like low whistles vis a vis flutes, either simple or Boehm system ones. I feel the flute is a far superior instrument. That's purely a personal opinion, but I'm sure another can of worms has just been opened now.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Personally, philistine that I am, I don't like low whistles either. I really do like 'normal' D whistles, though. Beautiful instrument.
As for this yoke, personally, I didn't like it - too saxy.
Still, each to his/her own ...
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
from the Dunsire site link:
"Second register sounds amazingly like the uilleann pipe chanter "
ROFLMAO
No. It sounds "amazingly" like a clarinet.
Benny Goodman - paging Mr. Benny Goodman...
Claiming that this sounds like an uilleann pipe chanter is a good laugh, though.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by brianc
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
I was taken with the Rolling Wave clip. Evidently the old Hornpipe (the instrument, that is) is being revived just as the hurdy-gurdy and various bagpipes have been, with no doubt many experiments and mistakes along the way, and it certainly has the credentials as a folk instrument to justify its being brought back from the past and tried out, at least, in the folk / trad scene. Where it will fit in best is for more experiment to indicate. I've no doubt it would find a niche in English trad, which is able to accommodate a very catholic range of instruments.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
we had a turkish clarinet at our session once. lets just say it didnt particularily suit the music and i can't see it being welcomed back.
sounds like an uilleann pipe chanter? not a chance. it seems to me like the entire website is spent trying to justify its existance in celtic music.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Kevo32A
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
I still think it would go well with the Hang Drum..
# Posted on September 15th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
...in fact, I bet you could do a "combo" instrument with this hornpipe / clarinet beastie sticking out of the hole in the bottom of the hang drum. Therefore you turn it upside-down to do the wind thing, and maybe get a passer-by to do the drum thing.
# Posted on September 15th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Just stumbled across this as I'm researching hornpipe (the instruments). I have a Whistle Player's Hornpipe among several other types. I enjoy it immensely. I don't see any evidence that it was ever intended as more than a special effect/colour in folk music for when you want to get really bassy. Its EXTREMELY low end and resonant. There's nothing quite like it (no, not any clarinet like it either, its much less 'refined', less 'tame' than clarinet).
@srt19170 , quote: " 'Tin whistle/flute fingering and ornaments transfer directly to the Whistle Player’s Hornpipe' and then 'Another feature of straight-bored reed instruments is that the second register fingerings play an octave and a 5th higher instead of an octave.' One of these things is not like the other!"
The fingering is whistle fingering (plus a back thumb-hole). How it overblows doesn't in any way change that fact.
@brianc and kevo32A Sounds like you weren't listening to the second register. There is only one track on the website that goes into the second register (Fairy Song I think ?) I play clarinet. That does not sound like the clarinet register and to my ear does sound similar to the uillean pipe chanter (which I've been listening to since the early 70's). But then ears differ too.
Just my two cents.
# Posted on March 2nd 2011 by Jean Armour
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
Just picked one up used yesterday. Very interesting instrument.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Michael Eskin
Re: Wait until THIS shows up at your session!
To me that "Port na bPuca" does sound more like a clarinet than anything else, across the whole range. He's doing a whole bunch of sliding attacks; in the low register he seems to be using his fingers like a whistle player, but in the high register he's doing some of it by embouchure changes, which are something we've come to expect from jazz clarinet. They aren't essential to the instrument, so part of the slight alien-ness of the sound is due to what he's heard rather than what he's got in his hands. (BTW is the current wide use of pressure-controlled sliding on the uillean pipes an inheritance from jazz? - the effect is often very similar).
Some mouthpieces lend themselves to that sort of thing more than others - I use an O'Brien glass mouthpiece on my Turkish clarinet these days, and it doesn't respond much to attempts to change pitch by embouchure. Suits me, I want to play pretty straight. I would guess these Whistle Player's Hornpipes come with cheap plastic mouthpieces, and they often give you more malleable pitch. If you haven't played a clarinet before you might be surprised how big a difference the mouthpiece makes.
When they first came out, the "hornpipes" were a bit of a ripoff, as you could get a Turkish clarinet for the same money and have an instrument with a lot of added functionality. Now the Turkish clarinets are much more expensive and the hornpipes are becoming extinct, so it's a matter of getting whichever you can locate and afford.
The guy is trying too hard on "The Silver Spear" - his countermelody would work better with less notes.
# Posted on May 7th 2011 by Jack Campin