Hi,
just wondering... I've learned most of the tunes by ear from CD's (best and most recommended Scottish and Irish flute and whistle players) and also from my friend, who's played at some sessions in Scotland. However, many times, I know a different version of the tune - usually a version posted in the "Comments" to the tune. I'd like to know, if the versions posted here are the most common ones, or from a certain area... I live in Czech Republic, so please don't recommend that I go to sessions and find out myself It's not that I want to know what's the "correct" version, because there isn't such. But it's a bit annoying when I play with someone and find out, that it doesn't sound good, because I know a different version than the majority of people...
There is no correct version. Just learn one, then you can change it depending on who you are playing with. That's part of the skill in learning - being able to change your version midstream to fit in with someone else.
Baruskaob - As you probably know, all the tunes found in the database here are submitted by members - which currently number 38664. So, with that many contributors, it is impossible to generalize about versions of tunes - some will have been learned in sessions, some from books, some from commercial recordings, some will have been taught one-to-one, some (although the practice is not encouraged) have been transcribed directly from other collections). It is true that on many commercial recordings, you will find either unusual variants from the player's own locality or (especially on modern recordings) the player's own personal variants. Because of the nature of sessions (musicians of different abilities playing together, who may not have played together before) there must exist 'session versions' of tunes - versions which, due to relative ease of playing or learning, have become 'standard'. But even these are not necessarily universal - the way a tune is usually played in Galway is not necessarily the same as how it is usually played in Cork, Sligo, London, Melbourne or New York.
As Continuo says, it is important to be able to change the way you play a tune to fit with another player's version. (Ideally, the other player will simultaneously adapting their version to yours). This is something that becomes easier the more tunes (and versions of tunes) you learn - by ear, especially. It goes hand-in-hand with learning to build your own variations - the less you are tied to one setting of a tune, the easier it is to pick up another version after one hearing.
It's quite simple-there's no such thing as the "correct" version, but there are innumerable incorrect versions. Most of the settings on this website are flawed in one way or another. You could learn a tune from here, but just think of it as a starting pont, and then, as continuo suggests, be prepared to change the way you play the tune as you go along. Easier said than done, but it gets easier with practice.
Some of the tune settings posted here are just plain wrong, posted by people who either don’t really know the tune or don’t know their ABCs.
For what little it’s worth, in my opinion the most researched and playable versions on this site have been posted by Jeremy, Cheshire Puddy Tat, Dow, Slainte, ceoloachan, Kenny, and Mad Baloney. Look for those names – signs of quality. Apologies to any I’ve skipped – doesn’t mean your versions aren’t good, those names are just off the top of my head.
OK. For instance The Banshee. I've never heard the version posted by Jeremy, but I've learned and always heard the version posted in the comments by Slainte. So I'm wondering if most of the tunes from the people listed above are also the most played versions...
Since I am bad at ABC, but read sheet music, I am always disappointed by the fact that only one version gets the sheet music treatment, while the rest of the versions just get ABCs listed in the comments. I wish we could show the dots for the other settings as well. Most of the time, the settings are pretty close to perferred local settings (which often seems to coincide with the contributers that fidkid listed above, good job you folks). But every once in a while I hear a tune, copy the name, print out the sheet music from here, but a few bars in to it go "oops, that's not it."
I suppose if we were really fancy we could post different settings and then let people vote, so folks could see which is the most prevalent version.
Not that any are wrong, only different.
Al - As was pointed out to me recently, you can very easily copy the abc, go to http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html , paste the abc into the box and Bob's yer proverbial uncle.
Beat me to it, NCRC. The tune-a-tron is a great resource.
Standardization and homogenization, I think, are the enemy. We can’t all be Tommy Potts of course, but I personally like the way a tune can mutate. Having said that, I know firsthand the frustration of learning a tune and then wanting to share it with a friend, only to find that they play it very differently. But that usually only sets you back a session or so till you learn each other’s versions and decide which one you like best – or create a hybrid of both versions. It used to be really hard for me to “overwrite” a tune setting I had learned with something that was significantly (but not totally) different, but that seems to be getting easier.
I need to tell you that many of my transcriptions contains simple mistakes. Dow, "Cheshire," and Kenny often kindly set me straight. I've been doing my best to be accurate these days, though.
The way tunes are posted in the wrong sections is terrible.
There should be a section for new compositions (of members) so that you wouldn't have to wade through dozens of badly-written, repetitive, unoriginal tunes.
Having said all that it is still a great resource.
Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Hi,
It's not that I want to know what's the "correct" version, because there isn't such. But it's a bit annoying when I play with someone and find out, that it doesn't sound good, because I know a different version than the majority of people...
just wondering... I've learned most of the tunes by ear from CD's (best and most recommended Scottish and Irish flute and whistle players) and also from my friend, who's played at some sessions in Scotland. However, many times, I know a different version of the tune - usually a version posted in the "Comments" to the tune. I'd like to know, if the versions posted here are the most common ones, or from a certain area... I live in Czech Republic, so please don't recommend that I go to sessions and find out myself
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by baruskaob
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
There is no correct version. Just learn one, then you can change it depending on who you are playing with. That's part of the skill in learning - being able to change your version midstream to fit in with someone else.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by continuo
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Yes, it is fair to say that there can be no correct version of a tune. However, for every "correct" version you find, there's plenty of wrong ones.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Baruskaob - As you probably know, all the tunes found in the database here are submitted by members - which currently number 38664. So, with that many contributors, it is impossible to generalize about versions of tunes - some will have been learned in sessions, some from books, some from commercial recordings, some will have been taught one-to-one, some (although the practice is not encouraged) have been transcribed directly from other collections). It is true that on many commercial recordings, you will find either unusual variants from the player's own locality or (especially on modern recordings) the player's own personal variants. Because of the nature of sessions (musicians of different abilities playing together, who may not have played together before) there must exist 'session versions' of tunes - versions which, due to relative ease of playing or learning, have become 'standard'. But even these are not necessarily universal - the way a tune is usually played in Galway is not necessarily the same as how it is usually played in Cork, Sligo, London, Melbourne or New York.
As Continuo says, it is important to be able to change the way you play a tune to fit with another player's version. (Ideally, the other player will simultaneously adapting their version to yours). This is something that becomes easier the more tunes (and versions of tunes) you learn - by ear, especially. It goes hand-in-hand with learning to build your own variations - the less you are tied to one setting of a tune, the easier it is to pick up another version after one hearing.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
It's quite simple-there's no such thing as the "correct" version, but there are innumerable incorrect versions. Most of the settings on this website are flawed in one way or another. You could learn a tune from here, but just think of it as a starting pont, and then, as continuo suggests, be prepared to change the way you play the tune as you go along. Easier said than done, but it gets easier with practice.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by patrick cavanagh
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Some of the tune settings posted here are just plain wrong, posted by people who either don’t really know the tune or don’t know their ABCs.
For what little it’s worth, in my opinion the most researched and playable versions on this site have been posted by Jeremy, Cheshire Puddy Tat, Dow, Slainte, ceoloachan, Kenny, and Mad Baloney. Look for those names – signs of quality. Apologies to any I’ve skipped – doesn’t mean your versions aren’t good, those names are just off the top of my head.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
and Lazyhound and Nigelg
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by domnull
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
OK. For instance The Banshee. I've never heard the version posted by Jeremy, but I've learned and always heard the version posted in the comments by Slainte. So I'm wondering if most of the tunes from the people listed above are also the most played versions...
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by baruskaob
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Since I am bad at ABC, but read sheet music, I am always disappointed by the fact that only one version gets the sheet music treatment, while the rest of the versions just get ABCs listed in the comments. I wish we could show the dots for the other settings as well. Most of the time, the settings are pretty close to perferred local settings (which often seems to coincide with the contributers that fidkid listed above, good job you folks). But every once in a while I hear a tune, copy the name, print out the sheet music from here, but a few bars in to it go "oops, that's not it."
I suppose if we were really fancy we could post different settings and then let people vote, so folks could see which is the most prevalent version.
Not that any are wrong, only different.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Al - As was pointed out to me recently, you can very easily copy the abc, go to http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html , paste the abc into the box and Bob's yer proverbial uncle.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Beat me to it, NCRC. The tune-a-tron is a great resource.
Standardization and homogenization, I think, are the enemy. We can’t all be Tommy Potts of course, but I personally like the way a tune can mutate. Having said that, I know firsthand the frustration of learning a tune and then wanting to share it with a friend, only to find that they play it very differently. But that usually only sets you back a session or so till you learn each other’s versions and decide which one you like best – or create a hybrid of both versions. It used to be really hard for me to “overwrite” a tune setting I had learned with something that was significantly (but not totally) different, but that seems to be getting easier.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Yours is correct. Every one else's is wrong.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by drone
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Namechang.....etc, Thanks, what a handy thing to have available!
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
I need to tell you that many of my transcriptions contains simple mistakes. Dow, "Cheshire," and Kenny often kindly set me straight. I've been doing my best to be accurate these days, though.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by slainte
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Fidkid is right - I had missed that bit.
The way tunes are written here is often terrible.
The tunes posted here are often terrible.
The way tunes are posted in the wrong sections is terrible.
There should be a section for new compositions (of members) so that you wouldn't have to wade through dozens of badly-written, repetitive, unoriginal tunes.
Having said all that it is still a great resource.
# Posted on August 30th 2007 by continuo
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Slainte: I had learned the version you posted before I even saw it and I think it's great
I was just giving an example.
# Posted on August 31st 2007 by baruskaob
Re: Wondering about tune versions on this web...
Cheers, "Baruskaob." But people like "Phantom Button," Josh Kane, and Gian Marco have contributed to this site a lot more.
# Posted on August 31st 2007 by slainte