I've just been reading that Frankie Gavin was... Quote: Dumbfounded when he found himself playing to an almost empty auditorium at the Stone's Concert at the weekend.
I've always felt uneasy and just a tad embarrassed for the musicians when I've watched ITM acts performing at Rock and Roll concerts. Watching an audience buck lepping around completely out of time to the music and pretending they are enjoying it, when I know that the majority couldn't tell a jig from a reel, always got to me. I certainly wouldn't like to play a gig at one of those venues, whatever money I was paid. Opinions please.
Wanna hear some spiffin' ITM rock 'n' roll? Seek out a copy of Alias Ron Kavana's CD "Galway to Graceland." Whatever genre you happen to be a purist in, whether it be ITM, bluegrass, country, rock or Cajun, this CD won't please you. But it's bloody good anyway!
I once saw Fairport Convention open for Jethro Tull. Full hall for their set. Okay, they're not the "Pure Drop," but I doubt that most Tull fans knew who they were. Of course if the fans don't even get to the hall until the headliner comes on, it doesn't much matter who opens. I think it is a good idea to have some connection between the opener and the headliner, but then Jimi Hendrix once opened for the Monkees (really!), so what do I know.
I often seek out the side acts, warmups, & in-betweeners.
The best performers are not always the headliners.
The best thing for a musician to do when they find they are out of place (relative to the venue) is to play as if you are playing for one person & do your best. If you have something good at least one person will notice. I do.
But, you ask, does traditional & rock & roll mix?
It happens all the time. But lets be honest you can have a trainwreck mixing ITM with other types of traditional music.
FreeReed, where did you read the Frankie Gavin article?
Frankie *might* have actually been playing WITH the Stones (he's done that before, and recorded on some of their albums). So maybe he was dumbfounded that nobody bothered to show up to a Stones concert! Just a thought.
I certainly don't think him playing as an opening act would be all that welcomed by the masses...
I was at the concert and Frankie was the first of 4 support acts. He was on stage at approx 3pm (6 hours before the stones came on). I guess that many of the concert goers (70000 of them) only came to see mick & co and, seeing that the event was outdoors and it was raining quite heavily, decided to arrive later in the day. I would guess that 5000 or so were there for Frankies set which is about 6 times the audience he had the last few times I've seen him. For the record - Frankie played a fairly mediocre set while The Stones ROCKED. Also for the record......Frankie Gavin is a very good fiddle player, Keith Richards is a living legend.
I saw Frankie Gavin, Paddy Keenan and Junji Shirota at a tiny pub in Northern California a couple of years ago. Paddy had a cold and seemed a little low key, but Frankie was smokin' on the fiddle! Funny as hades and playing like a banshee! And he didn't seem too disturbed by the fact that the place only held 50 people. The Stones are what they are, and they are the OLD version of it. (I'll now admit to being a lifelong fan of Keef riffage and ruffage But legends or not, I'd put the these aging trad players at the top of the bill--even with the Stones.
As for a Rock and Trad bill in general?... Why not? It's an entertainment, not a session
As as for playing for a small crowd when opening for the Stones.... Life is hard, then you die.
Getting back to the original point. I think it can, but its a disposable kind of thing. Rock bands seem to do jigs better because it ties in with the shuffle feel. I've heard some reels destroyed by rock bands especially Horslips where the drummer and the bass player bog the tune down to a 2 to the bar format. Sorry to my wife from the west of Ireland who thinks they were the duck's nuts. I thought the drummer from the Pogues knew what a Reel was and if you had to have a drummer playing tunes you'd have him.
Actually the original points were: FG opening for the Stones and being "dumbfounded" that the hall was empty; and Rock fans jumping around (aka dancing) but not really knowing what they were listening to when an ITM band was opening for a Rock act.
But I agree with much of what you said--especially the part about the Pogues drummer.
it doesn't mix terribly well, but that hasn't stopped a few decades worth of trad "bands" from pursuing speed-happy arrangement-heavy, slam-strumming "excitement" based on the rock paradigm. occasionally with brilliant results. but usually not.
The Irish Mail On Sunday! At least no right minded person will have read it. They don't like that subversive, satanic stuff stuff in the mail, woo, woo, woo, woo
Opening act, open air, in the rain, six hours before the main act....what did he expect ? And what's the normal size of his audience ? I wouldn't mind a 5000 audience. And I'm sure he got paid.
Traddie .No. The drummer from the Pogues played 8 beats to the bar mostly on the snare so it was like an exaggerated ceili snare drummer. It just sounded right to me. Who said anything about "labels'?
Sold. We have some sort of consensus. I'll buy your walkin 4 on the bass every time. For me as long as it swings.
Trad. I think these threads could do with more musicians discussing tricks of the trade , technical philosophy, questions of interpretation , etc. etc. We've all played with drummers, and you're right, it is all music, but I can't see what's wrong with
discussing what tickles your bag and what doesn't with other players. Some of my most memorable nights have been spent
doing just this with my friends through a haze of smoke and drink. One thing is for certain though at the end of the night.
Everyone says Keef is brilliant.
Trad. That's what's so good about Keef . He doesn,t give a rat's @rse about Tony or Angus, only if they're bringing any
pot around with them. Sometimes he's onstage and he doesn't even bother playing.
The Spanish band Celtas Cortos have some really interesting blends in their early/mid albums - "Tranquilo majete" is the album in which they got the perfect blend, their earlier albums are a bit more "celtic-ish" and their later albums are too "rock-ish" (and nnot nearly as good as their earlier stuff). They really understood the music, they could play it, they had the right energy to do it and (on that album) pretty much nailed it.
Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I've just been reading that Frankie Gavin was... Quote: Dumbfounded when he found himself playing to an almost empty auditorium at the Stone's Concert at the weekend.
I've always felt uneasy and just a tad embarrassed for the musicians when I've watched ITM acts performing at Rock and Roll concerts. Watching an audience buck lepping around completely out of time to the music and pretending they are enjoying it, when I know that the majority couldn't tell a jig from a reel, always got to me. I certainly wouldn't like to play a gig at one of those venues, whatever money I was paid. Opinions please.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I dunno, Ive never experienced that but nobody can deny that you can mix rock and roll with shamrock and roll really well. The horselips did it.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by session savage
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
playing to a near empty auditorium is a common experience for opening acts, regardless of what they play.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Bren
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
NO
Mary
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Antikhntr
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Even Sting played for a nearly empty stadium when he opened for the Grateful Dead in the 90s. Hard to imagine that now during the current Police tour.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Kheelch
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Free Read, I can relate! I remember once seeing Begley and Cooney doing warm up for the Waterboys at Glastonbury. My heart went out to them.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by sergeant fox
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Wanna hear some spiffin' ITM rock 'n' roll? Seek out a copy of Alias Ron Kavana's CD "Galway to Graceland." Whatever genre you happen to be a purist in, whether it be ITM, bluegrass, country, rock or Cajun, this CD won't please you. But it's bloody good anyway!
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Sting's singing on his "Songs From The Labyrinth" lute album would empty any stadium.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Actually, I'm dumbfounded. Frankie is a wonderful fiddler and a total inspiration. People just don't understand . . .
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Fiddle Fancier
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I once saw Fairport Convention open for Jethro Tull. Full hall for their set. Okay, they're not the "Pure Drop," but I doubt that most Tull fans knew who they were. Of course if the fans don't even get to the hall until the headliner comes on, it doesn't much matter who opens. I think it is a good idea to have some connection between the opener and the headliner, but then Jimi Hendrix once opened for the Monkees (really!), so what do I know.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Ailin
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
no.
on musical merit ,the Rolling Stones should be doing the support.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I often seek out the side acts, warmups, & in-betweeners.
The best performers are not always the headliners.
The best thing for a musician to do when they find they are out of place (relative to the venue) is to play as if you are playing for one person & do your best. If you have something good at least one person will notice. I do.
But, you ask, does traditional & rock & roll mix?
It happens all the time. But lets be honest you can have a trainwreck mixing ITM with other types of traditional music.
FreeReed, where did you read the Frankie Gavin article?
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Frankie *might* have actually been playing WITH the Stones (he's done that before, and recorded on some of their albums). So maybe he was dumbfounded that nobody bothered to show up to a Stones concert! Just a thought.
I certainly don't think him playing as an opening act would be all that welcomed by the masses...
Pete
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
CAW CAW ERrrrr! George Clooney and others
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by copo24
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I was at the concert and Frankie was the first of 4 support acts. He was on stage at approx 3pm (6 hours before the stones came on). I guess that many of the concert goers (70000 of them) only came to see mick & co and, seeing that the event was outdoors and it was raining quite heavily, decided to arrive later in the day. I would guess that 5000 or so were there for Frankies set which is about 6 times the audience he had the last few times I've seen him. For the record - Frankie played a fairly mediocre set while The Stones ROCKED. Also for the record......Frankie Gavin is a very good fiddle player, Keith Richards is a living legend.
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by strayaway
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
The Muse - The article was in a full page spread about the Stone's concert on page 3 of 'The Irish Mail on Sunday''
# Posted on August 20th 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
I saw Frankie Gavin, Paddy Keenan and Junji Shirota at a tiny pub in Northern California a couple of years ago. Paddy had a cold and seemed a little low key, but Frankie was smokin' on the fiddle! Funny as hades and playing like a banshee! And he didn't seem too disturbed by the fact that the place only held 50 people. The Stones are what they are, and they are the OLD version of it. (I'll now admit to being a lifelong fan of Keef riffage and ruffage
But legends or not, I'd put the these aging trad players at the top of the bill--even with the Stones.
As for a Rock and Trad bill in general?... Why not? It's an entertainment, not a session
As as for playing for a small crowd when opening for the Stones.... Life is hard, then you die.
Always look on the bright side of life
Dee dee...
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by GDub
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
A youthful Frankie playing a "Big Tune:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1EU4ipTkRg
And what can I say... Don't mess wif Keef!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5oR-sv1tY
Also, didn't Frankie Gavin tour with the Stones? I mean actually play in the band? I think he did.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by GDub
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Getting back to the original point. I think it can, but its a disposable kind of thing. Rock bands seem to do jigs better because it ties in with the shuffle feel. I've heard some reels destroyed by rock bands especially Horslips where the drummer and the bass player bog the tune down to a 2 to the bar format. Sorry to my wife from the west of Ireland who thinks they were the duck's nuts. I thought the drummer from the Pogues knew what a Reel was and if you had to have a drummer playing tunes you'd have him.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
"Getting back to the original point...."
Actually the original points were: FG opening for the Stones and being "dumbfounded" that the hall was empty; and Rock fans jumping around (aka dancing) but not really knowing what they were listening to when an ITM band was opening for a Rock act.
But I agree with much of what you said--especially the part about the Pogues drummer.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by GDub
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Point taken gw.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
it doesn't mix terribly well, but that hasn't stopped a few decades worth of trad "bands" from pursuing speed-happy arrangement-heavy, slam-strumming "excitement" based on the rock paradigm. occasionally with brilliant results. but usually not.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
The Irish Mail On Sunday! At least no right minded person will have read it. They don't like that subversive, satanic stuff stuff in the mail, woo, woo, woo, woo
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by strayaway
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Opening act, open air, in the rain, six hours before the main act....what did he expect ? And what's the normal size of his audience ? I wouldn't mind a 5000 audience. And I'm sure he got paid.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Traddie .No. The drummer from the Pogues played 8 beats to the bar mostly on the snare so it was like an exaggerated ceili snare drummer. It just sounded right to me. Who said anything about "labels'?
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Sold. We have some sort of consensus. I'll buy your walkin 4 on the bass every time. For me as long as it swings.
Trad. I think these threads could do with more musicians discussing tricks of the trade , technical philosophy, questions of interpretation , etc. etc. We've all played with drummers, and you're right, it is all music, but I can't see what's wrong with
discussing what tickles your bag and what doesn't with other players. Some of my most memorable nights have been spent
doing just this with my friends through a haze of smoke and drink. One thing is for certain though at the end of the night.
Everyone says Keef is brilliant.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Ahhh, it's all the same thing.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by drone
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Well, actually, no, it's not all the same thing.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by fidkid
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Dunno really, pindowntrad. I always reckoned that Jagger & co. made blues sound like hornpipes. Whaddya think, bro?
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
Trad. That's what's so good about Keef . He doesn,t give a rat's @rse about Tony or Angus, only if they're bringing any
pot around with them. Sometimes he's onstage and he doesn't even bother playing.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
The Spanish band Celtas Cortos have some really interesting blends in their early/mid albums - "Tranquilo majete" is the album in which they got the perfect blend, their earlier albums are a bit more "celtic-ish" and their later albums are too "rock-ish" (and nnot nearly as good as their earlier stuff). They really understood the music, they could play it, they had the right energy to do it and (on that album) pretty much nailed it.
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by Pablofromargentina
Re: Does ITM and Rock & Roll really mix
The Breton band Gwendal did a good job of mixing the two genres.
# Posted on August 24th 2007 by dafydd