sometimes yes. If ur new in an area and there is a clique of good but unfriendly musicians and the only way to "be accepted " is to show your abilities..if u desire to be accepted by such personalities, that is.
also when u meet some arrogant cocky youngster know-it-all it can be a dark kind of pleasure to knock em down a few pegs..
"...when u meet some arrogant cocky youngster know-it-all it can be a dark kind of pleasure to knock em down a few pegs.."
Sure. But what if he's better than you are?
There is always some element of competition, even if it is only with yourself. Musicians can generally tell, in the first ten seconds, just how each player will fit into the scheme of things. It would be nice to avoid phrases like "better than" but that's kind of utopian, isn't it? Best is to be kind to everybody.
The Correct version of the tune is usually the way the "best" player at the session plays it. Though often it is the loudest who determines tempo and phrasing - so there you are: comparatives again.
If youre not "the best", should you give up? I think there comes a time when you settle into a contentment with your own playing capabilities, a knowledge that you are getting something back out of it, merely by playing the music, not trying to impress. Sometimes people will compliment you on your playing, when you feel you could have done better. This will either convince you that you're really a genius ( but a little too hard on yourself) or that the person is a bit drunk / tone deaf / condescending / full of s**t etc.
Settle for your own view, it's generally close to the truth.
In other words NO, one should'nt have to prove anything.
We have no choice but to move forward from where we are..........
why should current ability keep anyone from improving or enjoying the ride?
And yes, the answer is no.
If you are talking about fleadh competitions, I would answer no.
At a session, there must be some sort of standard, otherwise it could be wrecked by a dreadful player. Even those cocooned in their own playing would notice.
So to that extent, you would need to prove you are competent. Nothing against a learner joining in on the tunes they know, or playing solo pieces they know.
Cross - posting!
Mr. Bliss I must know how one does not have to prove musicianship in fleadh competition. From "The Great Ceili Wars" I got quite the opposite impression. Or is that sibling rivalry?
The only thing I compete about anymore is getting a good parking spot in front of the pub. However, I did want to comment on Hakanozel's thoughts on being new and "earning" your place. I have yet to find that a simple pleasant introduction like - "Hello, I'm new, would it be alright if I sat off to the side here and played along on the tunes I know?" - would ever be rejected in anyway or in anyplace.
A good musician must devour all others by sheer force of musical will, striding across the land crushing mere mortal instrumentalists with a wave of his or her hand. The wreckage of other musicians' egos will be their floor as they stomp triumphantly into eternity.
Tonya, I am saying there should not be any fleadh competitions. Anything relying on judges is open to corruption, and interpretation.
Example. Frankie Gavin, Tommy Peoples and Martin Hayes are in the fiddle competition. Before they play a note if I am the judge, Hayes is the winner. He may not be the best player, I just happen to like Hayes style and approach to the music. If Gavin slips me an envelope full of cash, he would be the likely winner.
They are all good players. The same applies to most underage fleadh comps, and some people end up shattered when the judge does not place them. That is just one opinion.
I keep saying Jackie Daly and Seamus Creagh came last the last time I was at a fleadh in the duets, but they were by far and away the best set that day. In my opinion.
I am with you Greg. There are some wonderful people in classical music. But the level of competition can be very destructive.
Key; I have never attended a fleadh but would hope there are fun activities aside from the competition (& corruption).
i think the competition scene in scottish and irish music puts people off playing it after leaving school.
its seen by many as an activity forced on you to improve yourself.
it should more be about workshy types playing good music and making people jump around.
I compete only with my musical doppelganger, Mr. Dan, whose playing—and I am usually the only one at the session who can vividly see/hear him—crackles out of such a blazingly wicked soul that even the more obviously squiffed sessionistas can at least somewhat detect the dude's looming presence.
Compete with mortals? Islanders and diasporeenies? Naaaaaw.
If you have somthing to gain then compete .If you have nothing to gain then don't compete ,top musicians who have a reputation won't compete because they would only be setting them self up for a fall...........................on the other hand If someone has gone from being a beginer to reaching a stage where he/she can compete . Then Competeing alone is a great achievement...............
Thanks everyone! ~ Just a thought;
if one is a good musician perhaps she can help others prove to themselves they are also good. I learn from players better than myself.
Competition
Competition
Does a good musician have to prove how good they are?
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
no
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Competition
sometimes yes. If ur new in an area and there is a clique of good but unfriendly musicians and the only way to "be accepted " is to show your abilities..if u desire to be accepted by such personalities, that is.
also when u meet some arrogant cocky youngster know-it-all it can be a dark kind of pleasure to knock em down a few pegs..
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: Competition
tho i do remember reading a review of some guitarist that said "he proves he's the best by having nothing to prove"..
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: Competition
"...when u meet some arrogant cocky youngster know-it-all it can be a dark kind of pleasure to knock em down a few pegs.."
Sure. But what if he's better than you are?
There is always some element of competition, even if it is only with yourself. Musicians can generally tell, in the first ten seconds, just how each player will fit into the scheme of things. It would be nice to avoid phrases like "better than" but that's kind of utopian, isn't it? Best is to be kind to everybody.
The Correct version of the tune is usually the way the "best" player at the session plays it. Though often it is the loudest who determines tempo and phrasing - so there you are: comparatives again.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by David Levine
Re: Competition
I play music for the fun, interest, craic, beer, people, love, and and and.......... where does the competition come in?
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by tctelboy
Re: Competition
This is the most ludicrous thread I've ever seen
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Competition
If youre not "the best", should you give up? I think there comes a time when you settle into a contentment with your own playing capabilities, a knowledge that you are getting something back out of it, merely by playing the music, not trying to impress. Sometimes people will compliment you on your playing, when you feel you could have done better. This will either convince you that you're really a genius ( but a little too hard on yourself) or that the person is a bit drunk / tone deaf / condescending / full of s**t etc.
Settle for your own view, it's generally close to the truth.
In other words NO, one should'nt have to prove anything.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Backer
Re: Competition
We have no choice but to move forward from where we are..........
why should current ability keep anyone from improving or enjoying the ride?
And yes, the answer is no.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by morning star
Re: Competition
If you are talking about fleadh competitions, I would answer no.
At a session, there must be some sort of standard, otherwise it could be wrecked by a dreadful player. Even those cocooned in their own playing would notice.
So to that extent, you would need to prove you are competent. Nothing against a learner joining in on the tunes they know, or playing solo pieces they know.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Competition
I believe each of you feels session music is not competition.
Although sometimes players will push one another.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
Cross - posting!
Mr. Bliss I must know how one does not have to prove musicianship in fleadh competition. From "The Great Ceili Wars" I got quite the opposite impression. Or is that sibling rivalry?
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
The only thing I compete about anymore is getting a good parking spot in front of the pub. However, I did want to comment on Hakanozel's thoughts on being new and "earning" your place. I have yet to find that a simple pleasant introduction like - "Hello, I'm new, would it be alright if I sat off to the side here and played along on the tunes I know?" - would ever be rejected in anyway or in anyplace.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Competition
If everyone in a session is competent there is no need for competition.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by bowburner
Re: Competition
If I ride my Vespa to the session I always get a good parking spot, and I look the coolest of everyone. So I win!
Once I pull out my flute, well, there goes my status as the winner.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Competition
who is Vespa?
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Competition
A good musician must devour all others by sheer force of musical will, striding across the land crushing mere mortal instrumentalists with a wave of his or her hand. The wreckage of other musicians' egos will be their floor as they stomp triumphantly into eternity.
Obviously not, this is a buncha beal onna.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Competition
Sorry, I was just reading this cool book and I couldn't help performing.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Invented-Slang-Counterpunch/dp/1904859607
Performing? Whoops, wrong baloney!
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Competition
I step into the ITM world from the classical world to avoid the competition.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Competition
Tonya, I am saying there should not be any fleadh competitions. Anything relying on judges is open to corruption, and interpretation.
Example. Frankie Gavin, Tommy Peoples and Martin Hayes are in the fiddle competition. Before they play a note if I am the judge, Hayes is the winner. He may not be the best player, I just happen to like Hayes style and approach to the music. If Gavin slips me an envelope full of cash, he would be the likely winner.
They are all good players. The same applies to most underage fleadh comps, and some people end up shattered when the judge does not place them. That is just one opinion.
I keep saying Jackie Daly and Seamus Creagh came last the last time I was at a fleadh in the duets, but they were by far and away the best set that day. In my opinion.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Competition
I am with you Greg. There are some wonderful people in classical music. But the level of competition can be very destructive.
Key; I have never attended a fleadh but would hope there are fun activities aside from the competition (& corruption).
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
i think the competition scene in scottish and irish music puts people off playing it after leaving school.
its seen by many as an activity forced on you to improve yourself.
it should more be about workshy types playing good music and making people jump around.
ie: fun
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by DubChieftain
Re: Competition
Sorry, that was bodhran bliss (not key maniac lad).
Key; a Vespa is a motorscooter.
sbhikes; flutes are cool.
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
Motorscooter? What's that? Does it have real hair?
# Posted on August 10th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Competition
no
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
I compete only with my musical doppelganger, Mr. Dan, whose playing—and I am usually the only one at the session who can vividly see/hear him—crackles out of such a blazingly wicked soul that even the more obviously squiffed sessionistas can at least somewhat detect the dude's looming presence.
Compete with mortals? Islanders and diasporeenies? Naaaaaw.
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Competition
Sorry ... Were we talking about the Flute-out at the O'Kay coral?
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by BarryM
Re: Competition
Margaret Thatcher, who I do not quote often, had an interesting take on this general area.
She said being powerful is like being a woman. If you have to tell people you are, then you're not
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by Pól
Re: Competition
If you have somthing to gain then compete .If you have nothing to gain then don't compete ,top musicians who have a reputation won't compete because they would only be setting them self up for a fall...........................on the other hand If someone has gone from being a beginer to reaching a stage where he/she can compete . Then Competeing alone is a great achievement...............
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by Saint
Re: Competition
Thanks everyone! ~ Just a thought;
if one is a good musician perhaps she can help others prove to themselves they are also good. I learn from players better than myself.
# Posted on August 11th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Competition
With an exception to every rule.
# Posted on August 13th 2007 by bodhran bliss