ditto. no contest. Chieftain -think Donkey. Useful enough and you get the odd good one. Overton - thoroughbred -takes a bit more practise to start but a superior animal in every way
Curious; is this a new thread?
Bernard Overton & Colin Goldie make Overtons.
At one time Phil Hardy also made Overtons. Please correct me if that last statement was never true. But who makes the Chieftain now?
Is that what Phil Hardy does?
One more question for cyberraga;
which Low D do you play?
That's right The Muse but chieftain are Hardy's machine made budget whistles. Hardy's hand made whistles are called Kerry Pro. A good whistle but not as good as Colin Goldies in my opinion
Sorry I did not mean to duck the original question.
Colin is a great whistle maker.
I am at a loss as to why people favor the Chieftain.
My guess is the Kerry Pro is not bad.
I played one once but it was just a few minutes of noodling.
Short answer:
Overton ~ excellent!
Chieftain ~ Hardly worth the effort.
Chieftain tanks are ok but they will never beat the old Tiger tanks the Germans had, and that's over fifty years ago. You've got to admire the Germans when it comes to cars, and in reality a tank, Chieftain or otherwise, is just a big car.
I have a Chieftain, and it's a really good whistle. I love it. When I was in the shop, trying out whistles, I tried an Overton, and I'll admit, it was much better, but it was also out of my price range. So, unfortunately, I couldn't get it, and went for the Chieftain instead. But I have no regrets. It's a great whistle, and definitely "worth the effort" (what effort?). Overtons, although they look silly (it's gotta be said), are much better, but also (justifiably) more expensive.
I have an unplayable Overton small D whistle. It's not even tunable. Aren't the best ones made by some guy Goldie, and the rest are cack? I've got a cack one. I was stoopid enough to buy it because of the Overton name. Once upon a time it did play quite well, albeit always on the sharp side for sessions, but over time it has deteriorated. I wouldn't go there again. So that's my Overton story.
As you point out with your link Key Maniac, Overton were blighted for a while by poor imitations. Colin Goldie has made the Overton whistles on license from Bernard Overton for some years now and his are what you want. If you check just inside of the bottom of the whistle 'Colin Goldie' will be enscribed if the whistle is genuine.
I actually suspect mine pre-dated the pretend-Overton scam, as it was bought as I said, about 10 years ago, and from a reputable dealer, Topwind flute shop at The Cut (Lower Marsh), London. Probably just a crap one. Also predating Colin Goldie.
Not sure where all the chieftan bashing is coming from but for my two cents:
When i was shopping around for a low D in Dublin a couple of years ago I was able to do a side by side of both chieftan and overton in a number of different models (low d, Bb) etc and found that the chieftans for my style were hands down easier to play, more articulate, louder and more "full" in terms of tone. Having said that some friends of mine in melbourne play wonderfully on overton whistles and pull sounds out of them that i certainly wasn't capable of. My point being that a whilstle like a flute (or any other instrument i imagine) is a highly personal instrument. I don't think it's fair to dismiss the work of a particular maker as crap simply because it's not to your taste, or as i think might be the case with the whistle mafia , it's not trendy.
P.s. I have also heard people like Carmel Gunning and Deidre Havlin play amazingly on susatos and generations which in the hands of others sound more like primary school recorders.
Sorry Key ~ I just saw the part about, "some guy Goldie" & assumed you were accusing him of making your whistle.
Maybe it is important to keep in mind that there are whistle makers who will really work with you if you contact them.
Key could you explain how it is even possible for an all metal whistle to deteriorate over time. I have heard this before & it is a bit hard to understand how this could happen.
Heya Lateness, For what it's worth i had the reverse experience to you, and I have to say that both my high and low D goldie-overton's have a much, much better tone, tuning, response and volume (my low D is louder than most of the flute players at our local session...) than ANY whistle i've ever played, and all the cheiftan's i've had a play (though I've only had an extended play of a cheiftan high D) have been very disapointing - esp. tuning-wise..
And - as an aside - i have to say that Mr. Hardy is one of the rudest, most aggressive instrument makers i've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. I once received an email from him blasting me for having the gall to give a shout out to Celtic Southern Cross (one of the very few folky instrument dealers in australia) on Chiffn'Fipple. Apparently they had received some complaints about his whistles and refused to stock them, and my mere mention of them meant that he felt the need to flame me. via email. he didn't even have the guts to put it up on the discussion... I know bad people can make good instruments but that sort of behavoir means i'll never play'm no matter how good they may be.
Fair play Nosey. I remember you telling me that story in canberra. Didn't realise it was phil you were talking about. I like my low d though and will stick with it until i find something better. How is the new tunable overton beast going? I'm in the market for a low F next i think
I would say that on first impressions the differences between these whistles seem few. But the thing with a quality instrument is that when you spend time with it you end up spending even more time with it. The more time you spend the better it gets. Be nice to yourself cyberraga. Buy the Overton.
I have a kerry low D, and it's not bad, but not a patch on either a cheiftain or an overton. i own an overton high D, which is fantastic, but i've played a low D once and would recommend one to anyone.
People love these types of discussion because it gives them a chance to convince THEMSELVES that the instrument they have paid out for really is the best: If they praise their instrument to the hills for long enough they will start to believe it themselves. It happens over and over here, but mostly with flutes!
Being honest with you, I own a Chieftain Low D. It's not bad. I have played a few others, one better than mine and one not as good as my own. I have also played a few Overton low D's and I think that there is a big difference. The Overton is a much better instrument, but yes, a more expensive instrument. I play my Chieftain every day and enjoy it, but quite often, when I'm having a bad whistle playing day, I blame the Chieftain when things don't sound the way I want them to!
I would buy the Overton right now and give my Chieftain to a kid starting out if I had the cash, but I don't. Had I known what I know now, I would never have bought the Chieftain, I'd have put that money towards an Overton.
A saying in Irish, 'caithfidh tú mún leis an bhód atá agat' means 'you can only pee with the tackle you've got'. Here you have a choice, pick your tackle wisely, god knows how long you'll end up peeing with it!
"Best" by what measure? Without knowing it's hard to provide real information, cogent advice or informed opinion. I'll give it a go
As information: Chosing a Whistle can be quite subjective, but you could be asking some of these questions:
* Is it in tune? Over 2 octaves? (does it matter?)
* Does the behaviour of cross-fingered notes suit your style?
* Can you get 3rd octave notes? (Do you need them?)
* Is it the right volume for your intended use?
* Is it the right tone for your intended use?
* Do all the notes play cleanly?
* Are any of the notes too soft? (especially bell and 2nd notes) Or too loud?
* Does the tone evolve cleanly over the range?
* Do any of the intervals kill the note when playing at speed? (some whistles have a nasty habit of refusing to play the second note in a fast combination - sometimes the combination is rare, sometimes not)
* Is the hole-spacing OK for your grip?
As advice: Try before you buy, or at least, retain the option to return an instrument that does not pass muster.
As opinion: Chieftain and Overton seem to be made for different buyers - Chieftains are a manufactured off-the-shelf product, made to a standard specification - try it, buy it, and away you go. Overton whistles are custom-made to order with a waiting list - you can sometimes get them off-the shelf or second-hand, but you will be getting an instrument made to someone else's specification - might suit you, or not - you can always get in touch with the maker.
Also keep in mind that Low-whistles (as we know them) are a fairly new beasty. The various makers have only been at it a few decades are still evolving, new makers are appearing all the time and adding their own inovations. Today's opinion will be obsolete very quickly.
You've gotta try for yourself, the opinion of others doesn't cut it. I've owned a lot of different Low D's over the years including Overtons and Kerry/Chieftains but the keeper was a Howard. It suits me, suits my technique I guess and makes the sound I'm after. You will have a different experience, I'm sure.
Buy the one you fancy and be prepared to change when you find a better one. Ebay your old ones. Find your new ones on Ebay too for that matter!
I am trying to decide between a Kerry Pro and an Overton. All the opinions in the world from others only go so far in making the decision. I want to go and try them out, compare. (And even so, I know that the Overton can be made to my preferences by Colin, but somehow I still want to try one first.)
So where in the world can I go to try them? I live in Berkeley, California.
http://www.overton.co.uk/
You could try e-mailing Colin. He's very helpful. If you do get a chance to try an Overton make sure it's not a copy by checking that it's inscribed Colin Goldie and the date of manufacture just inside the bottom of the tube.
Overton Vs Chieftain
Overton Vs Chieftain
LOW D: mhmm...what's the best?!?
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by death
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
no contest
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
ditto. no contest. Chieftain -think Donkey. Useful enough and you get the odd good one. Overton - thoroughbred -takes a bit more practise to start but a superior animal in every way
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by bogman
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Curious; is this a new thread?
Bernard Overton & Colin Goldie make Overtons.
At one time Phil Hardy also made Overtons. Please correct me if that last statement was never true. But who makes the Chieftain now?
Is that what Phil Hardy does?
One more question for cyberraga;
which Low D do you play?
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
That's right The Muse but chieftain are Hardy's machine made budget whistles. Hardy's hand made whistles are called Kerry Pro. A good whistle but not as good as Colin Goldies in my opinion
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by bogman
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Sorry I did not mean to duck the original question.
Colin is a great whistle maker.
I am at a loss as to why people favor the Chieftain.
My guess is the Kerry Pro is not bad.
I played one once but it was just a few minutes of noodling.
Short answer:
Overton ~ excellent!
Chieftain ~ Hardly worth the effort.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Don't buy the chieftain buy an Overton or a flute instead !
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Ralex
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Chieftain tanks are ok but they will never beat the old Tiger tanks the Germans had, and that's over fifty years ago. You've got to admire the Germans when it comes to cars, and in reality a tank, Chieftain or otherwise, is just a big car.
Test drive them both before getting one.
I assume you are from the USA?
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I have a Chieftain, and it's a really good whistle. I love it. When I was in the shop, trying out whistles, I tried an Overton, and I'll admit, it was much better, but it was also out of my price range. So, unfortunately, I couldn't get it, and went for the Chieftain instead. But I have no regrets. It's a great whistle, and definitely "worth the effort" (what effort?). Overtons, although they look silly (it's gotta be said), are much better, but also (justifiably) more expensive.
Maybe when I'm rich and famous I'll get one...
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Joe CSS
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Hell, when I'm rich and famous I'll get an MK.... and a Strad....
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Joe CSS
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I have an unplayable Overton small D whistle. It's not even tunable. Aren't the best ones made by some guy Goldie, and the rest are cack? I've got a cack one. I was stoopid enough to buy it because of the Overton name. Once upon a time it did play quite well, albeit always on the sharp side for sessions, but over time it has deteriorated. I wouldn't go there again. So that's my Overton story.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
You may want to check this out - maybe that's what happened to me, but it was about 9 or 10 years ago:
http://www.overton.de/texte/beaware.html
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
As you point out with your link Key Maniac, Overton were blighted for a while by poor imitations. Colin Goldie has made the Overton whistles on license from Bernard Overton for some years now and his are what you want. If you check just inside of the bottom of the whistle 'Colin Goldie' will be enscribed if the whistle is genuine.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by bogman
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I've got a susato. Plastic whistle! it's the only one, here, in Milan...
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by death
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I actually suspect mine pre-dated the pretend-Overton scam, as it was bought as I said, about 10 years ago, and from a reputable dealer, Topwind flute shop at The Cut (Lower Marsh), London. Probably just a crap one. Also predating Colin Goldie.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Not sure where all the chieftan bashing is coming from but for my two cents:
, it's not trendy.
When i was shopping around for a low D in Dublin a couple of years ago I was able to do a side by side of both chieftan and overton in a number of different models (low d, Bb) etc and found that the chieftans for my style were hands down easier to play, more articulate, louder and more "full" in terms of tone. Having said that some friends of mine in melbourne play wonderfully on overton whistles and pull sounds out of them that i certainly wasn't capable of. My point being that a whilstle like a flute (or any other instrument i imagine) is a highly personal instrument. I don't think it's fair to dismiss the work of a particular maker as crap simply because it's not to your taste, or as i think might be the case with the whistle mafia
P.s. I have also heard people like Carmel Gunning and Deidre Havlin play amazingly on susatos and generations which in the hands of others sound more like primary school recorders.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by late in the evening
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Try alba whistes they are lovely !
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by Ralex
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Colin & Brigitte are a wonderful couple. Key; I am certain that if Colin made you a poor whistle he will make it good. We all make mistakes.
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Sorry Key ~ I just saw the part about, "some guy Goldie" & assumed you were accusing him of making your whistle.
Maybe it is important to keep in mind that there are whistle makers who will really work with you if you contact them.
Key could you explain how it is even possible for an all metal whistle to deteriorate over time. I have heard this before & it is a bit hard to understand how this could happen.
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Heya Lateness, For what it's worth i had the reverse experience to you, and I have to say that both my high and low D goldie-overton's have a much, much better tone, tuning, response and volume (my low D is louder than most of the flute players at our local session...) than ANY whistle i've ever played, and all the cheiftan's i've had a play (though I've only had an extended play of a cheiftan high D) have been very disapointing - esp. tuning-wise..
And - as an aside - i have to say that Mr. Hardy is one of the rudest, most aggressive instrument makers i've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. I once received an email from him blasting me for having the gall to give a shout out to Celtic Southern Cross (one of the very few folky instrument dealers in australia) on Chiffn'Fipple. Apparently they had received some complaints about his whistles and refused to stock them, and my mere mention of them meant that he felt the need to flame me. via email. he didn't even have the guts to put it up on the discussion... I know bad people can make good instruments but that sort of behavoir means i'll never play'm no matter how good they may be.
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by SirNose
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
Fair play Nosey. I remember you telling me that story in canberra. Didn't realise it was phil you were talking about. I like my low d though and will stick with it until i find something better. How is the new tunable overton beast going? I'm in the market for a low F next i think
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by late in the evening
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I would say that on first impressions the differences between these whistles seem few. But the thing with a quality instrument is that when you spend time with it you end up spending even more time with it. The more time you spend the better it gets. Be nice to yourself cyberraga. Buy the Overton.
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by bogman
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I have a chieftain and it's great! I tried several whistles, but never the overton... so I can't tell you about it
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by Matt_Celta
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I have a kerry low D, and it's not bad, but not a patch on either a cheiftain or an overton. i own an overton high D, which is fantastic, but i've played a low D once and would recommend one to anyone.
# Posted on August 9th 2007 by Djaque
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
People love these types of discussion because it gives them a chance to convince THEMSELVES that the instrument they have paid out for really is the best: If they praise their instrument to the hills for long enough they will start to believe it themselves. It happens over and over here, but mostly with flutes!
Being honest with you, I own a Chieftain Low D. It's not bad. I have played a few others, one better than mine and one not as good as my own. I have also played a few Overton low D's and I think that there is a big difference. The Overton is a much better instrument, but yes, a more expensive instrument. I play my Chieftain every day and enjoy it, but quite often, when I'm having a bad whistle playing day, I blame the Chieftain when things don't sound the way I want them to!
I would buy the Overton right now and give my Chieftain to a kid starting out if I had the cash, but I don't. Had I known what I know now, I would never have bought the Chieftain, I'd have put that money towards an Overton.
A saying in Irish, 'caithfidh tú mún leis an bhód atá agat' means 'you can only pee with the tackle you've got'. Here you have a choice, pick your tackle wisely, god knows how long you'll end up peeing with it!
# Posted on August 9th 2007 by proinsiasrua
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
"Chieftain/Overton ... what's the best"?
"Best" by what measure? Without knowing it's hard to provide real information, cogent advice or informed opinion. I'll give it a go
As information: Chosing a Whistle can be quite subjective, but you could be asking some of these questions:
* Is it in tune? Over 2 octaves? (does it matter?)
* Does the behaviour of cross-fingered notes suit your style?
* Can you get 3rd octave notes? (Do you need them?)
* Is it the right volume for your intended use?
* Is it the right tone for your intended use?
* Do all the notes play cleanly?
* Are any of the notes too soft? (especially bell and 2nd notes) Or too loud?
* Does the tone evolve cleanly over the range?
* Do any of the intervals kill the note when playing at speed? (some whistles have a nasty habit of refusing to play the second note in a fast combination - sometimes the combination is rare, sometimes not)
* Is the hole-spacing OK for your grip?
As advice: Try before you buy, or at least, retain the option to return an instrument that does not pass muster.
As opinion: Chieftain and Overton seem to be made for different buyers - Chieftains are a manufactured off-the-shelf product, made to a standard specification - try it, buy it, and away you go. Overton whistles are custom-made to order with a waiting list - you can sometimes get them off-the shelf or second-hand, but you will be getting an instrument made to someone else's specification - might suit you, or not - you can always get in touch with the maker.
Also keep in mind that Low-whistles (as we know them) are a fairly new beasty. The various makers have only been at it a few decades are still evolving, new makers are appearing all the time and adding their own inovations. Today's opinion will be obsolete very quickly.
Hope this helps.
# Posted on August 13th 2007 by Mozle
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
You've gotta try for yourself, the opinion of others doesn't cut it. I've owned a lot of different Low D's over the years including Overtons and Kerry/Chieftains but the keeper was a Howard. It suits me, suits my technique I guess and makes the sound I'm after. You will have a different experience, I'm sure.
Buy the one you fancy and be prepared to change when you find a better one. Ebay your old ones. Find your new ones on Ebay too for that matter!
# Posted on August 18th 2007 by Jay-eye
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I am trying to decide between a Kerry Pro and an Overton. All the opinions in the world from others only go so far in making the decision. I want to go and try them out, compare. (And even so, I know that the Overton can be made to my preferences by Colin, but somehow I still want to try one first.)
So where in the world can I go to try them? I live in Berkeley, California.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by flutix
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
http://www.overton.co.uk/
You could try e-mailing Colin. He's very helpful. If you do get a chance to try an Overton make sure it's not a copy by checking that it's inscribed Colin Goldie and the date of manufacture just inside the bottom of the tube.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by bogman
Re: Overton Vs Chieftain
I love Chieftain....
LONG LIVE Chieftain！
I‘am Chinese，I represent all China people to Support the chieftain
Because it is a good Whistle
# Posted on November 13th 2010 by Xuwulong_General