After browsing a few discussions, I found several people commenting on djembes (traditional west african hand drums) as being... well... very uncalled for, I suppose you could say. I have been around celtic music my whole life and have often seen djembes playing in sessions and at big performances and have always wondered "What is THAT doing there? Isn't this IRISH music?" I'm 16 now and have been thoroughly studying various West African musical traditions at my school for the past 5 years now, and never once have I heard anything about a merging of Irish and West African cultures. Does anyone have any ideas, theories, etc.? In my opinion, the reason djembes don't work in Irish music is because they weren't created for that in the first place! You guys should hear some real West African grooves if you haven't already!
I'm sure somewhere in this big old world there is a percussionist well educated in the subtle beats of Irish traditional music who could do justice to a Djembe in a session - I however, have not been fortunate enough to meet a person like this. It has been my experience that folks who show up with a Djembe to a session are there labouring under the impression it is some sort of "groovy open jam" in which people can express themselves musically. They usually end up trampling all over the tunes. Hippiefish there is certainly no rule that prohibts the merging of Irish and African musical styles - the marriage of the two sometimes makes marvelous music. However, I think you would find it a tough sell in most pub sessions.
You're all wrong. The Djembe was introduced into West Africa at the height of the Slave Trade in 1738 by an Irishman called Jim B.Quilty, and of course he gave his name to the drum, Djembe being a corruption of Jim B - the name Quilty was unpronounceable in the local dialect. This was two years after the Banjo was introduced by his cousin and fellow slave trader "Bangin'" Joe King, The Bangin' nickname was because of his well-known promiscuous behaviour.
So get yer facts right you lot.
There's a band called Djembe in Ireland which features an Irish percussionist playing bodhrán, djembe and various other instruments along with a Nigerian percussionist, Irish Uilleann Piper, Fremch Flautist, Irish singer/guitarist and Irish bassist.
They wouldn't be to everyone's taste but they do a very good job of showing how some African rhythms are very similar to Irish rhythms and they put on a great show, not sure if they're still playing together.
I'm a firm believer that almost any instrument could work well in any musical style if the performer is an expert on that instrument and has a good knowledge of the style of music but as Jusa Nutter Eejit says, when you do come across a Djembe in a session 99.9% of the time it is a disaster because the performer is likely to be a crusty new age hippy with no idea about ITM!
Indeed the Banjar is an African instrument - adopted by immigrant Irish in American minstrel shows and brought to Ireland by those same musicians. Yet inspite of these obvious African similarities there is no Barney McKenna, Eamon Coyne or Angelina Carberry of the Djembe of which I am aware - maybe someday - maybe Hippiefish!
.
Before anyone asks, Fremch Flautists are a dying breed of musicians playing an ancient style of music originating around the French/Flemish border...........actually I just made a typo, it should be French not Fremch!
I have had the pleasure of a nice djembe sound out in the yard of Patrick Furlong's pub in Enniscorthy but that was a once in a lifetime experience.
Generally speaking djembes should have vaseline rubbed carefully around them to ease the movement up the players nether regions!
I also recall the fabulous public announcement over the tannpy in Enniscorthy that year - "Calling all musicians, calling all musicians, - go to the square and DRIVE THE DRUMMERS OUT!!!" priceless
For an Africian Irish trad music and song connection check out a 1980's RTE documentary by Tom Quinn called 'Atlantian'.
As for Djebes. More than one sounds like 3 bricks in a tumble dryer!
look at the "pet hates " thread from a few days ago-that was all about hippy drummers in gigs (my no.1 pet hate! no offence intended!) And as for Afro-Celt-Sound-System, look at the "Angry Bass player storms out" thread from 26th July for a story of my "meeting" with the genuinely psychotic Djembe player from that band and let it read as a timely warning for any musician foolish (or in my case weak) enough to allow someone like that to sit down in the first place...
at the risk of making crass generalisations, my issue with hand drums in ITM isn't with the instrument per se.. it's that as an instrument it seems to attract a certain personality type..and it's the personality type more than the instrument that often jars with the general vibe of a session..
as regards the hippiefish's initial question of the merging of two styles, my strong belief is that the only person capable of merging two styles successfully is someone highly proficient in BOTH..most attempts at 'fusions' are from someone very good at one type of music who has started to get interested in a second.. so actually 99% of the time what you get is a diluted form of the thing they are good at with a kind of token gesture at he second. i know i've been gulty of this in the past.
Of course there MAY be another approach which is to get 2 guys who are proficient at 1 style each..
of course some odd fusions can seem to be succesful...who'd of thought if you crossed a hippy with a fish you'd get an intelligent thoughtful 16 yr old musician? Good luck to you and take everything us old fogeys say with a pinch of salt!
I am studying the bodhran and have some basic training in djembe as well. I think djembes are just too loud for ITM. I suppose if the player sat in the bar next door it would be ok, but it would kill the more subtle notes of the other instruments.
However, I think iwerzon's comments about more than 3 djembes at a time sounding like bricks in a dryer is completely off base. I have been in attendance (and played) with as many as 15 other djembe players, all playing the same tune and it is an amazing sound...like controlled thunder. Nothing gets people moving like the djembes....primal and powerful.
hakanozel, as for musician personalities and your ACSS member experience, isn't it ultimately about the music? I love the ACSS's music, but could care less about their personalities. That the player you refer to didn't gel with you or with whatever thing you invited him to join in on, hey, what's new? I've met plenty of self-absorbed, psycho, prima donna types who were amazing players and exasperating to be around. My advice, listen, but don't touch
BTW, in case it isn't obvious, I'm NOT cheerleading for djembe driven sessions, or traditional African drums in a session at all for that matter. Bongos, on the other hand...
yeh gw, but check out the story, he ruined the music AS WELL as the nice vibe in the pub.if u read the original thread you'll see it wasn't a case of "not gelling"..it was a genuinely unstable personality crossing the line into violence. self-absorbed is one thing, psycho is another entirely! And this guy was genuinely scary.it was one of those situations when all the male bar staff are edging round the bar ready to drop the guy if he picks up a bottle. if part of being an "amazing player" is the ability to be aware of one's musical environment, then my goldfish is a better musician than that turd.
Djembes in ITM???
Djembes in ITM???
After browsing a few discussions, I found several people commenting on djembes (traditional west african hand drums) as being... well... very uncalled for, I suppose you could say. I have been around celtic music my whole life and have often seen djembes playing in sessions and at big performances and have always wondered "What is THAT doing there? Isn't this IRISH music?" I'm 16 now and have been thoroughly studying various West African musical traditions at my school for the past 5 years now, and never once have I heard anything about a merging of Irish and West African cultures. Does anyone have any ideas, theories, etc.? In my opinion, the reason djembes don't work in Irish music is because they weren't created for that in the first place! You guys should hear some real West African grooves if you haven't already!
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by hippiefish
Re: Djembes in ITM???
In The Great Ceili War (movie) a South African kwela band took home the prize. The movie was set in the mid 6o's.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Maybe so. But violins and eight-key simple system flutes were not created for Irish traditional music either! They just happen to fit it rather well.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Djembes in ITM???
I believe the only instruments designed specifically for playing Irish music on are the uilleann pipes. The rest are adoptees.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Djembes in ITM???
I'm sure somewhere in this big old world there is a percussionist well educated in the subtle beats of Irish traditional music who could do justice to a Djembe in a session - I however, have not been fortunate enough to meet a person like this. It has been my experience that folks who show up with a Djembe to a session are there labouring under the impression it is some sort of "groovy open jam" in which people can express themselves musically. They usually end up trampling all over the tunes. Hippiefish there is certainly no rule that prohibts the merging of Irish and African musical styles - the marriage of the two sometimes makes marvelous music. However, I think you would find it a tough sell in most pub sessions.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Close SWFL; you missed one!
Later!
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Oh for shame, how could I forget our dear bodhran?
("EASILY!" they scream back...)
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Djembes in ITM???
You're all wrong. The Djembe was introduced into West Africa at the height of the Slave Trade in 1738 by an Irishman called Jim B.Quilty, and of course he gave his name to the drum, Djembe being a corruption of Jim B - the name Quilty was unpronounceable in the local dialect. This was two years after the Banjo was introduced by his cousin and fellow slave trader "Bangin'" Joe King, The Bangin' nickname was because of his well-known promiscuous behaviour.
So get yer facts right you lot.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Djembes in ITM???
nothing wrong with learning Africian rhythms and playing them on the bodhran. Some of the rhythms might fit nicely
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Saint
Re: Djembes in ITM???
After all is not the Banjo origionally an Aftrican Instument?
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by bazouki dave
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Africian, Aftrican. What the heque.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Djembes in ITM???
There's a band called Djembe in Ireland which features an Irish percussionist playing bodhrán, djembe and various other instruments along with a Nigerian percussionist, Irish Uilleann Piper, Fremch Flautist, Irish singer/guitarist and Irish bassist.
They wouldn't be to everyone's taste but they do a very good job of showing how some African rhythms are very similar to Irish rhythms and they put on a great show, not sure if they're still playing together.
I'm a firm believer that almost any instrument could work well in any musical style if the performer is an expert on that instrument and has a good knowledge of the style of music but as Jusa Nutter Eejit says, when you do come across a Djembe in a session 99.9% of the time it is a disaster because the performer is likely to be a crusty new age hippy with no idea about ITM!
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Indeed the Banjar is an African instrument - adopted by immigrant Irish in American minstrel shows and brought to Ireland by those same musicians. Yet inspite of these obvious African similarities there is no Barney McKenna, Eamon Coyne or Angelina Carberry of the Djembe of which I am aware - maybe someday - maybe Hippiefish!
.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Before anyone asks, Fremch Flautists are a dying breed of musicians playing an ancient style of music originating around the French/Flemish border...........actually I just made a typo, it should be French not Fremch!
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by The Tune Composer
Re: Djembes in ITM???
At this price, every session could have one!
http://www.thomann.de/ie/mplus_nino511_souvenier_djembe.htm
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Backer
Re: Djembes in ITM???
they're just too bloody loud
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Djembes in ITM???
And let's be fair, you can hardly move in most sessions in West Africa these days without falling over a uilleann piper.
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Djembes in ITM???
If you didn't drink so much you wouldn't go falling over other musicians!
# Posted on August 6th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Why didn't I think of that?
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Djembes in ITM???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-XpW4cQlgQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrJW33JkVlM
Enjoy.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by GDub
Re: Djembes in ITM???
What about the band Afrocelt? I wouldn't call their music ITM but it is an interesting fusion of African and Irish music.
G.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by GerryTh
Re: Djembes in ITM???
gw not enough drums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ha
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Saint
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Who was it said, "when I hear the word 'fusion' I reach for my gun?"
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Djembes in ITM???
What is this Irish rubbish?
I thought ITM stood for Traditional Ivory-Coast Music?
No jokes about the Silver Spear please ;->.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Or Ivory-Coast Traditional Music (before any pedants pass by).
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Will you lot stop banging on about this..................
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Wasn't Jim Reeves lucky; he could only "hear the sound of distant drums"
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Thumping good thread.
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Look into these folks:
http://www.differentdrums.co.uk/ddi.htm
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by ejsant
Re: Djembes in ITM???
I have had the pleasure of a nice djembe sound out in the yard of Patrick Furlong's pub in Enniscorthy but that was a once in a lifetime experience.
Generally speaking djembes should have vaseline rubbed carefully around them to ease the movement up the players nether regions!
I also recall the fabulous public announcement over the tannpy in Enniscorthy that year - "Calling all musicians, calling all musicians, - go to the square and DRIVE THE DRUMMERS OUT!!!" priceless
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by breandan
Re: Djembes in ITM???
Tannoy hee hee
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by breandan
Re: Djembes in ITM???
For an Africian Irish trad music and song connection check out a 1980's RTE documentary by Tom Quinn called 'Atlantian'.
As for Djebes. More than one sounds like 3 bricks in a tumble dryer!
# Posted on August 7th 2007 by iwerzon
Re: Djembes in ITM???
ejsant, Different Drums of Ireland! Cool! Thanks for the link!
as to the above:
Never put even a single brick in my tumble dryer, so I wouldn't know the sound
Peace...
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by GDub
Re: Djembes in ITM???
look at the "pet hates " thread from a few days ago-that was all about hippy drummers in gigs (my no.1 pet hate! no offence intended!) And as for Afro-Celt-Sound-System, look at the "Angry Bass player storms out" thread from 26th July for a story of my "meeting" with the genuinely psychotic Djembe player from that band and let it read as a timely warning for any musician foolish (or in my case weak) enough to allow someone like that to sit down in the first place...
at the risk of making crass generalisations, my issue with hand drums in ITM isn't with the instrument per se.. it's that as an instrument it seems to attract a certain personality type..and it's the personality type more than the instrument that often jars with the general vibe of a session..
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: Djembes in ITM???
as regards the hippiefish's initial question of the merging of two styles, my strong belief is that the only person capable of merging two styles successfully is someone highly proficient in BOTH..most attempts at 'fusions' are from someone very good at one type of music who has started to get interested in a second.. so actually 99% of the time what you get is a diluted form of the thing they are good at with a kind of token gesture at he second. i know i've been gulty of this in the past.
Of course there MAY be another approach which is to get 2 guys who are proficient at 1 style each..
of course some odd fusions can seem to be succesful...who'd of thought if you crossed a hippy with a fish you'd get an intelligent thoughtful 16 yr old musician? Good luck to you and take everything us old fogeys say with a pinch of salt!
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: Djembes in ITM???
I am studying the bodhran and have some basic training in djembe as well. I think djembes are just too loud for ITM. I suppose if the player sat in the bar next door it would be ok, but it would kill the more subtle notes of the other instruments.
However, I think iwerzon's comments about more than 3 djembes at a time sounding like bricks in a dryer is completely off base. I have been in attendance (and played) with as many as 15 other djembe players, all playing the same tune and it is an amazing sound...like controlled thunder. Nothing gets people moving like the djembes....primal and powerful.
# Posted on August 8th 2007 by DanCaspian
Re: Djembes in ITM???
hakanozel, as for musician personalities and your ACSS member experience, isn't it ultimately about the music? I love the ACSS's music, but could care less about their personalities. That the player you refer to didn't gel with you or with whatever thing you invited him to join in on, hey, what's new? I've met plenty of self-absorbed, psycho, prima donna types who were amazing players and exasperating to be around. My advice, listen, but don't touch
BTW, in case it isn't obvious, I'm NOT cheerleading for djembe driven sessions, or traditional African drums in a session at all for that matter. Bongos, on the other hand...
# Posted on August 9th 2007 by GDub
Re: Djembes in ITM???
yeh gw, but check out the story, he ruined the music AS WELL as the nice vibe in the pub.if u read the original thread you'll see it wasn't a case of "not gelling"..it was a genuinely unstable personality crossing the line into violence. self-absorbed is one thing, psycho is another entirely! And this guy was genuinely scary.it was one of those situations when all the male bar staff are edging round the bar ready to drop the guy if he picks up a bottle. if part of being an "amazing player" is the ability to be aware of one's musical environment, then my goldfish is a better musician than that turd.
# Posted on August 9th 2007 by hakanozel