Probably too much time in my mind…not on my hands.
I must confess I have been listening too a lot of political-socioeconomic broadcasts on free radio, but I will try to maintain the rage…and leave it off the page.
As the term folk music implies it encompasses all folk musics from across our small world.
I was just wondering if Irish Traditional Music is the most pervasive of all other folk musics throughout the continents?
It means nothing now for us to travel from Eire to any other place in the world and not only find enclaves of exiles and their progenies playing trad and singing an Irish song (arguably more Irish than the Irish themselves), but to find examples of other cultures and races who have embraced the spirit of Ireland and perform it’s songs and dances.
In these cases nobody is forcing anyone to pick up the heritage of their forefathers.
It is Love…not duty.
I myself know of no other traditional folk culture which is so accessible no matter which continent you find yourself on. I may be wrong, and if I am feel free to correct my meanderings.
Don't forget Irish music is a miscellany of others traditional music. I am glad to see Irish people are proud of their culture especially of their music culture but think about the other countries where trad music is dying. Your music is still alive because your country is young and because of your protectionism...
"country is young" - Not too sure in what context that might be true.
"Protectionism" sounds like something bad. Irish Traditional Music has been promoted for years by people who kept it going when it was not socially acceptable in Ireland. There were token gestures by government bodies to give support to ITM over the years but hardly any form of Protectionism. Bodies such as CCE have actively promoted and tried to protect the culture including music but do not meet with widespread support from people in Ireland (not going to argue that one here - as to whether they have really helped or not).
For the most part ITM is protected and promoted by people who do it purely for pleasure.
Protection has the connotation that without that it would have faded. Well it had no protection and was veritably assaulted for years and cast out of society, but thanks to a small section of the Irish population and those that took the music overseas to sow the seed elsewhere, it survived++.
Hope I don't sound like a grumpy old man!
Greenwiggle: With regard to the original posting, it really is great to able to travel somewhere else and hook into that place's ITM scene. I can't really say if ITM is the most pervasive of Trad music but it somehow seems that way to me.
Some people would say the blues began as a traditional folk music. Looking at the way blues music has been adopted and adapted around the world makes me wonder what would happen to irish trad if it ever became as omnipresent.
Thanks Donough
Ralex - I'm not sure where you are coming from saying that it is part of a miscellany of other musics and that it has been protected??? I would say that it is one strain of a culture which has been sorely repressed, but has been kept alive by it's people around the globe who have passed down the tradition. And has now been embraced by peoples from other cultures because they see or feel some "connection" themselves.
What I was alluding to is that you can walk into a house or bar anywhere in the globe (almost) and hear/play/appreciate Irish music. Whereas if your bent is gallician music or tibetan chanting or yidaki playing or music from other repressed cultures you may not experience this. I don't believe that the country is "young" in comparison to other settled nations, or that Irish music is better than others...but this ain't the discussion for politics.
Don't forget about jazz, rock n' roll and country and western. All of these folk music idioms are more pervasive than ITM. But ITM carried to the USA had a big influence on all these genres, so indirectly Greenwiggle's assertion is correct.
Any American folk music, and even "Tin Pan Alley" (i.e US pop songs 1920 - 1970-ish) which was directly influenced by central European Jewish/Yiddish melodies, is arguably more pervasive internationally than Irish music. I understand the argument that Irish music was in the melting pot that created blues/C&W etc but the Tin Pan Alley Jewish influence is more direct with some melodies imported wholesale. Not to say that there isn't some Irish influence on that tradition as well.
I heard an interview with MickMoloney talking about the Irish influence/presence in tin pan alley in the period before there was significant Jewish participaton in that business. I think it was on Terry Gross ...
The contemporary success of Irish trad is hard to pin down to any one thing as there's a whole lot of aspects to it that make it appealing and not just to Irish people. Irish music has many flavours from the haunting slow airs to the lively reels and jigs not to mention the wild polkas and slides from Sliabh Luachra - something for everyone! Additionally it's very accessible as one can participate with something as simple and cheap as a tin whistle. And then there's the social thing where, beacause they have a few tunes in common, people of any class, creed or nationality can sit down together at a session where they'll play and socialise all night long. The fact that there's a common repertoire of popular tunes (who doesn't know the Sally Gardens reel?) is also a factor. I also feel that it's a sort of antidote to the high tech society (sattellite TV, Soaps, computer games and video, etc) which is now all pervasive attempting to turn us into passive consumers in a growing commercial and capitalist system.
didn't we just have this thread under another title a month or two ago?
in any event, the worldwide "enclaves" of people playing traditional irish music, though endearing and inspiring to think about, are tiny. teeny, eeny, weeny, marginal-though-lovely splinters on the big old tree of popular music. the folk tradition that has permeated popular culture on a global scale and whose impact remains far from played out, is the blues/jazz matrix created by african-americans, and the spinoffs from that, including rock and roll. those spinoffs do acquire layers of other traditions as they wend their way around the world, but the influence of the folk music of the Mississippi Delta and the Apollo Theatre continues to be massive. and accessible----if you can pick up that guitar and gimme three chords like you mean it, you're in, baby!
Global ITM...
Global ITM...
Probably too much time in my mind…not on my hands.
I must confess I have been listening too a lot of political-socioeconomic broadcasts on free radio, but I will try to maintain the rage…and leave it off the page.
As the term folk music implies it encompasses all folk musics from across our small world.
I was just wondering if Irish Traditional Music is the most pervasive of all other folk musics throughout the continents?
It means nothing now for us to travel from Eire to any other place in the world and not only find enclaves of exiles and their progenies playing trad and singing an Irish song (arguably more Irish than the Irish themselves), but to find examples of other cultures and races who have embraced the spirit of Ireland and perform it’s songs and dances.
In these cases nobody is forcing anyone to pick up the heritage of their forefathers.
It is Love…not duty.
I myself know of no other traditional folk culture which is so accessible no matter which continent you find yourself on. I may be wrong, and if I am feel free to correct my meanderings.
Have fun… but, be careful out there
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Greenwiggle
Re: Global ITM...
I think it is because the music is so fecking good. Why else would people all over the world with be playing it?
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Why Bother?
Re: Global ITM...
Don't forget Irish music is a miscellany of others traditional music. I am glad to see Irish people are proud of their culture especially of their music culture but think about the other countries where trad music is dying. Your music is still alive because your country is young and because of your protectionism...
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Ralex
Re: Global ITM...
Ralex, I don't understand what you are claiming. Can you elaborate?
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by timmy!
Re: Global ITM...
"country is young" - Not too sure in what context that might be true.
"Protectionism" sounds like something bad. Irish Traditional Music has been promoted for years by people who kept it going when it was not socially acceptable in Ireland. There were token gestures by government bodies to give support to ITM over the years but hardly any form of Protectionism. Bodies such as CCE have actively promoted and tried to protect the culture including music but do not meet with widespread support from people in Ireland (not going to argue that one here - as to whether they have really helped or not).
For the most part ITM is protected and promoted by people who do it purely for pleasure.
Protection has the connotation that without that it would have faded. Well it had no protection and was veritably assaulted for years and cast out of society, but thanks to a small section of the Irish population and those that took the music overseas to sow the seed elsewhere, it survived++.
Hope I don't sound like a grumpy old man!
Greenwiggle: With regard to the original posting, it really is great to able to travel somewhere else and hook into that place's ITM scene. I can't really say if ITM is the most pervasive of Trad music but it somehow seems that way to me.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Donough
Re: Global ITM...
Some people would say the blues began as a traditional folk music. Looking at the way blues music has been adopted and adapted around the world makes me wonder what would happen to irish trad if it ever became as omnipresent.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by dogbox
Re: Global ITM...
Thanks Donough
Ralex - I'm not sure where you are coming from saying that it is part of a miscellany of other musics and that it has been protected??? I would say that it is one strain of a culture which has been sorely repressed, but has been kept alive by it's people around the globe who have passed down the tradition. And has now been embraced by peoples from other cultures because they see or feel some "connection" themselves.
What I was alluding to is that you can walk into a house or bar anywhere in the globe (almost) and hear/play/appreciate Irish music. Whereas if your bent is gallician music or tibetan chanting or yidaki playing or music from other repressed cultures you may not experience this. I don't believe that the country is "young" in comparison to other settled nations, or that Irish music is better than others...but this ain't the discussion for politics.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Greenwiggle
Re: Global ITM...
"Some people would say the blues began as a traditional folk music"
Whatever would other people say, dogbox?
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: Global ITM...
Don't forget about jazz, rock n' roll and country and western. All of these folk music idioms are more pervasive than ITM. But ITM carried to the USA had a big influence on all these genres, so indirectly Greenwiggle's assertion is correct.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Hup
Re: Global ITM...
Any American folk music, and even "Tin Pan Alley" (i.e US pop songs 1920 - 1970-ish) which was directly influenced by central European Jewish/Yiddish melodies, is arguably more pervasive internationally than Irish music. I understand the argument that Irish music was in the melting pot that created blues/C&W etc but the Tin Pan Alley Jewish influence is more direct with some melodies imported wholesale. Not to say that there isn't some Irish influence on that tradition as well.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Bren
Re: Global ITM...
I heard an interview with MickMoloney talking about the Irish influence/presence in tin pan alley in the period before there was significant Jewish participaton in that business. I think it was on Terry Gross ...
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by 54321
Re: Global ITM...
The contemporary success of Irish trad is hard to pin down to any one thing as there's a whole lot of aspects to it that make it appealing and not just to Irish people. Irish music has many flavours from the haunting slow airs to the lively reels and jigs not to mention the wild polkas and slides from Sliabh Luachra - something for everyone! Additionally it's very accessible as one can participate with something as simple and cheap as a tin whistle. And then there's the social thing where, beacause they have a few tunes in common, people of any class, creed or nationality can sit down together at a session where they'll play and socialise all night long. The fact that there's a common repertoire of popular tunes (who doesn't know the Sally Gardens reel?) is also a factor. I also feel that it's a sort of antidote to the high tech society (sattellite TV, Soaps, computer games and video, etc) which is now all pervasive attempting to turn us into passive consumers in a growing commercial and capitalist system.
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Global ITM...
didn't we just have this thread under another title a month or two ago?
in any event, the worldwide "enclaves" of people playing traditional irish music, though endearing and inspiring to think about, are tiny. teeny, eeny, weeny, marginal-though-lovely splinters on the big old tree of popular music. the folk tradition that has permeated popular culture on a global scale and whose impact remains far from played out, is the blues/jazz matrix created by african-americans, and the spinoffs from that, including rock and roll. those spinoffs do acquire layers of other traditions as they wend their way around the world, but the influence of the folk music of the Mississippi Delta and the Apollo Theatre continues to be massive. and accessible----if you can pick up that guitar and gimme three chords like you mean it, you're in, baby!
# Posted on June 15th 2007 by ceemonster