I was in Baltimore Ireland for the Wooden Boat festival yesterday, an event where lots of lovingly restored old fishing boats and modern replicas take to the water.A group of us were planning to go to a session later, but as it started raining we thought we'd try and have an earlier session in one of the local pubs. Bushes was packed out so we went round the corner to the Algiers, found room to sit, and asked if we could play. To our amazement we were told they didn't want any music before 10.00 p.m.(this was about 5.30), as they were too busy. A few minutes later they put on some crap piped music. people sitting next to us were keen to hear us play, and were amazed that we were not allowed.
Is the anti Irish music not a flash back to the problem with the players. The players that want to play nothing but reels & jigs "non stop" from "dark to betime" ( @ breakneck speed ), instead of mixing it a bit. People not into that "stuff " don't notice the diff. in the tunes, just like Benhall said.
It's a bit pathetic that these people try to push others out of Trad
that way. It's a bit like some marchers in the North, EVERYONE MUST sing our song / tune. Iam very into Ir / Scot. but 10 minute tunes, one after the other all night. I would leave a pub / ?? where that all was on offer.
Ah, my apologies. Damme. I scanned the first line and saw "Baltimore" and completely missed the "Ireland". Right. Carry on. Um, my comment, while having nothing to do with this discussion, still stands, with the correction that I think "nominal" should be "nominally".
You could've once asked "Does not e=mc²?" for all I know.
It's a shame all these ITM musicians are coming in and taking over from Ireland's own native tradition of crap country and western though.
You have varying pubs, you have pubs that specialise in traditional, they have sessions all teh time, you have pubs that are grea places for a carvery lunch and you have places with mock-leather seats that want people to come in and have a chat, I can't see why you are totally surprised, different strokes for different folks...just because a pub is in Ireladn doesn't mean that it allows Irish mucic, If i go to USA I will not hear C&W in all the pubs nor will I hear music in all the pubs and if many people don't object to music in the US it's because there are many pubs there where you could fire a cannon off and no one would notice, there are so few in there congregating.
I think your thinking is a little black and white, I remember picking up a couple from the airport in Amsterdam and they were shocked that nobody wore clogs.
It's all down to your way of thinking, you expect, why? Heaven knows?
I mean Cathycook, look at your heading, if that is not a mild form of witch-hunting then I don't know what is, it's not that they want Irish music, it's just that there's a time and a place for everything, and the time for them is not 5.30 in the evening.
Not all Irish people love Irish music, many hate it! Many can't stand it. Some like it, but that does not include everyone nor should it. How people from Chicago like C&W or Blues?
You got get some subtlety into your thinking girl.......
,SHYLOCK ,You are wrong, most of the people in the bar said they would like to have heard some trad music.
I have played in this bar as a paid guest many times , and the barstaff were all over us [when it was bringing tourists in]but the owners are known for their crankiness.
the irish music that we play is not non stop reels,but a mixture of all types of tunes with songs interspersed.
your last remark is extremely patronising,boy.
Most of the people are probably tourists, but the bar staff doesn't want it, point out! You can't force trad on bars, they don't nered it, many pubs are great for talks and discussions and they want trad early in the evenings or not at all, in Dublin, some pubs will not allow any music whatsoever.
Most pubs owners are what you would call, distant in Ireland.
organBeil, I don't think it's a question of wrong or right.Some pubs do and some don't.
Shylock,
as regards thinking that 5.30 in the evening is not the time for music, maybe not every day, but this was a festival, lots of people looking for something going on, but not much happening outside at that moment as it was raining, and plenty of people in that bar would have been pleased if we had started playing. The festival was to do with traditional boats, and a lot of people who like those like trad music too.
Shylock ,most of the people were local people from west Cork,the losers were the pub as we[10 people ]would have stayed longer in the pub and spent more money.
Cathycook,Organbeil,
The pubs in Ireland are never losers, they have the same owners for hundreds of years, why? Because they always make a killing out of the Irish need for pint and a chat. I sympathise with you but understand their point of view, soem have too much trad and don't want it all day, some don't want it at all.
I can't stand the attitude of many pub owners/managers in Ireland, but I do understand.
It's the pub's policy and not the patron's demands that determines what goes.
It's not a money question, they always make money, so 10 people playing afew hours sounds great to a pub that is crying out for business, but that is not your average pub.
The same things happens always in my country... They don't like irish music in their pubs... they just put some rock or pop music and that's it... some people don't bother if we play but without taking off the music
Shylock, I live in Ireland,many rural pubs are closing .they are no longer in the same hands that they have been for hundreds of years,your average pub in rural ireland is crying out for business ,Baltimore is in rural Ireland.
Wether they are rural or not doesn't matter, they have the right to determine whether they allow music or not.
You can argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is the owner/manager says what goes, and if he doesn't like trad music in his pub at 5.30 that's theend of the story.
It's not unique, many pubs do not want trad music to be played, they decide, not us, not the customers, but the owners, you can't beat them
look at it this way, differnet strokes for different folks. There isa a tapas bar local to me, they occasionally ask me if I want to come down and session there, a bit difficult when there is a lack of players to play
within a 30 minute drive. Amazing how its too far when they have to drive instead of me.
Well, at least you tried, Cathy.
Just remember the golden rule; "You just can't please all the people all the time."
I'm on your side on this one, but, having just had to decamp down the street when the landlord sold the pub on, I understand that they're the boss, and you have to get permission to do it.
Kilfarboy,because in our experience it is very unusual,most bars like Caseys Baltimore,are vey happy to have musicians particuarly if they play for nothing.
This is a "glass half-full vs. glass half-empty" argument if ever there was. There are - what? - half a dozen pubs and venues in Baltimore alone; ten minutes up the road in Skibb there are (what is the current count?) fifteen or more, and in Ballydehob where you live there are what - is it eight?
A lot of these like trad music; some of them like it whenever they can get it; some like it some of the time; some cater more for the locals and prefer C&W, piped music or nothing. One might almost say that you are spoilt for choice.
If a publican makes a commercial decision you think is not the right one - ??? Your problem is what? I take it you're not thinking of going into the licensed trade yourselves.
i think an increasing number of irish pubs/bars just now would prefer something other than traditional irish music. it has happened in my city, and in ireland as well....this increasing number thinks rock/disco/nightclub music will draw more punters, and the bottom line, is the bottom line. they may be accurate, i don't know. but it is a mini-trend, unfortunately. whether that is the start of maxi-trend, i don;t have a guess....
This situation is different ,I ran alot of bars and I would probally have done the same thing with the weekend that was in it but if it was any other weekend he would have said yes. there is no need for music in a pub if its going to be full anyway.
Bellman,
the point was that we were there in Baltimore for the wooden boat festival anyway, not at that moment in Skibbereen or Ballydehob. Also although the pub was quite busy it was nothing like packed solid,also has been known to have trad music at other times. the sad thing I think is that a lot of tourists want trad music and can't find it, I couldn't count the number of tourists over the years who when they find out I play the fiddle are asking where they can find trad music locally, and complaining that so far on there holiday they've only found country and western , or whatever.
would you have been welcome to play after 10pm, or did they have some other music in mind for then?
I assume like many pubs that they make more money off food than drink. And also that certain types of tourists can crowd a bar for long periods without ever spending much money, so number of punters isn't always a good thing.
Not to say that I wouldn't have felt a bit miffed myself, but c'est la vie and all that
Bellman, there are three pubs in Baltimore,BrendanMcarthys has been knocked down,The third , Caseys is agood half mile walk [itwas pouring with rain at the time ]otherwise we would have played outside Bushes Bar.BushesAlthough friendly was packed solid,no coincidence that the less friendly bar was quieter[the locals must know something]
Ballydehob has six bars,and is 18 miles from Baltimore.we were in Baltimore for the wooden boat festival.
Bellman ,you are wriong about Baltimore,there are 3 pubs only,much has changed while youhave been in Australia.
So the golden days are over now that I've gone?
But it doesn't change my point. Do you think you are somehow entitled to be allowed to perform in any bar in Ireland at any time? Or that you should be entitled?
I'm not sure about being entitled. But if I see or hear one more pathetic attempt to make Irish bars in Sydney so very very Irish, "top o the mornin, ohhh me little shamrock blarney" blah blah - but who proceed to cut everything even remotely Irish (music, language, dancing) out then I may just have to scream. It’s very popular here for the Irish bars to feature mainly country and Irish. If you’re going to pretend to be all Irish and traditional at least do it realistically. Let’s get honest, if a few lads want to play a tune in a bar and don’t ask for money or free pints....and get turned down, then who is the bad business person?? I mean - free, live entertainment. What more could you want? It comes down to the pure fact that just because you own or run a bar doesn’t mean you have business sense. I'm with you Cathy on this one. That barman sounds like a right idiot.
I take your point bb, but I know that you have spent some time in Ireland, so you must know that it is far more usual for an actual Irish person to prefer C&W / ballady pop to ITM, and most young Irish people think of the Irish language, traditional dancing etc. as totally naff.
As for whether it's bad business, I think that a) we just don't know, and b) it's the licencee's business anyway. It is not impossible (this is, of course, pure speculation) that the landlord of the Algiers, given that the village would be packed with blow-ins and tourists brought by the (afaik generally very successful) boat festival, was counting on keeping up an atmosphere that the locals - the ones who might be there on a wet Wednesday in February - will feel comfortable in, rather than having to listen to yet more diddley dee played by English immigrants. (That senctence was too long, sorry.)
That might or might not be true, and if it is true the landlord might be making the wrong or right decision - my point is that we just don't know, and it's his business.
Bellman you say
''it is far more usual for an actual Irish person to prefer C&W / ballady pop to ITM,'' Actually the people next to us who would have liked us to play were Irish. As for ''yet more diddley dee played by English immigrants.'' you are presuming we were all English,(We weren't) and is this relevant. I grew up in an Irish area of London, (Kilburn) later lived in Camden Town and went to Irish sessions there and in Holloway, and have now lived in Ireland for over 20 years. I've been playing Irish music longer than plenty of Irish born people! I'm currently teaching a number of Irish young people locally the fiddle,(so they don't all think it's totally naff.)
bb, Guernsey Pete, anyone else who agreed with me
thanks for your support
Cathy Cook
Bellman,the session that you used to attend in Ballydehob which was originally in rosies bar was started by Cathy Cook.
if it hadnt been for blowins, there would not have been a regular session in ballydehob.20 YEARS AGO therewas one indigineous fiddle player,thanks to the efforts of Cathy Cook And more latterly Liam Kennealy[another blowinwho was not playing when he first came to the village,but was inspired to relearn by Cathys session]there are many local people playing.Check out Skibbereen comhaltas[of course you never did while you were there].
Ben no we didnt we had asession with JohnnyMoynihan,Jimmy Crowley.TonyHall,DublinMoran,Ain e Merict in the sailing club.
Bellman,
the reason this discussion has gone on so long is not so much because of the original incident but to reply to some of the garbage that you have written since
"The pubs in Ireland are never losers, they have the same owners for hundreds of years"
Bit of an exageration. The sad fact is 800 pubs in rural ireland have closed their doors in the last 3 years.
"Thinking you can walk into anyone's premises and sit down to play music and expect to be made welcome is a bit presumptuous isn't it?"
Exactly. It's a bit on an intrusion alright. Pity it sisn't work out but some times these things have to be organised well in advance.
I suppose it's just how things are done these days.
the landlord was asked,so no intrusion,
we then bought a drink.
we were surprised by his reaction because it was so unusual. there was no presumption.most of the locals were surprised . [one of them said that fellow is abit cranky]however next time thereis a chance of a session in Baltimore,it willnot be to theAlgiers we will go.If we had been made welcome we might have stayed longer or returned there later. instead we8 /12 people went to the sailing club where we had a session as mentioned earlier.
cathycook, organ beil etc - PLEASE pass on my very best to Dublin Moran. He is the main reason I got heavily into Irish (as opposed to other) trad music in the first place. The man was an inspiration to me from my early teens on.
Sheesh, I'd love to meet up with Dublin again. Bet he hasn't changed ...
Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
I was in Baltimore Ireland for the Wooden Boat festival yesterday, an event where lots of lovingly restored old fishing boats and modern replicas take to the water.A group of us were planning to go to a session later, but as it started raining we thought we'd try and have an earlier session in one of the local pubs. Bushes was packed out so we went round the corner to the Algiers, found room to sit, and asked if we could play. To our amazement we were told they didn't want any music before 10.00 p.m.(this was about 5.30), as they were too busy. A few minutes later they put on some crap piped music. people sitting next to us were keen to hear us play, and were amazed that we were not allowed.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Were they serving meals? I can understand them wanting to concentrate on that until the crowd thins a bit
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
They were serving meals, but in the other part of the bar, no one was eating where we were thinking of playing.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Well, fie on them then. The piped music was obviously a blocking tactic.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bloody right. Bloody Irish music. Bloody racket, if you ask me. I mean, it's all the same tune, innit?
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Is the anti Irish music not a flash back to the problem with the players. The players that want to play nothing but reels & jigs "non stop" from "dark to betime" ( @ breakneck speed ), instead of mixing it a bit. People not into that "stuff " don't notice the diff. in the tunes, just like Benhall said.
It's a bit pathetic that these people try to push others out of Trad
that way. It's a bit like some marchers in the North, EVERYONE MUST sing our song / tune. Iam very into Ir / Scot. but 10 minute tunes, one after the other all night. I would leave a pub / ?? where that all was on offer.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by lenamore Man
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Many, if not most, nominal "Irish" pubs in the US are no more Irish than McDonald's is Scottish.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
But arguably, all the pubs in Baltimore, Co. Cork, which is the place under discussion, are Irish
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Ah, my apologies. Damme. I scanned the first line and saw "Baltimore" and completely missed the "Ireland". Right. Carry on. Um, my comment, while having nothing to do with this discussion, still stands, with the correction that I think "nominal" should be "nominally".
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Baltimore is in Cork, lovely place. Did I not ask once "Is ITM wasted on the Irish"?
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
You could've once asked "Does not e=mc²?" for all I know.
It's a shame all these ITM musicians are coming in and taking over from Ireland's own native tradition of crap country and western though.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
You have varying pubs, you have pubs that specialise in traditional, they have sessions all teh time, you have pubs that are grea places for a carvery lunch and you have places with mock-leather seats that want people to come in and have a chat, I can't see why you are totally surprised, different strokes for different folks...just because a pub is in Ireladn doesn't mean that it allows Irish mucic, If i go to USA I will not hear C&W in all the pubs nor will I hear music in all the pubs and if many people don't object to music in the US it's because there are many pubs there where you could fire a cannon off and no one would notice, there are so few in there congregating.
I think your thinking is a little black and white, I remember picking up a couple from the airport in Amsterdam and they were shocked that nobody wore clogs.
It's all down to your way of thinking, you expect, why? Heaven knows?
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
I mean Cathycook, look at your heading, if that is not a mild form of witch-hunting then I don't know what is, it's not that they want Irish music, it's just that there's a time and a place for everything, and the time for them is not 5.30 in the evening.
Not all Irish people love Irish music, many hate it! Many can't stand it. Some like it, but that does not include everyone nor should it. How people from Chicago like C&W or Blues?
You got get some subtlety into your thinking girl.......
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
This happens in alot of pubs its sad really . If it was a normal weekend ye would have been left play.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Saint
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
,SHYLOCK ,You are wrong, most of the people in the bar said they would like to have heard some trad music.
I have played in this bar as a paid guest many times , and the barstaff were all over us [when it was bringing tourists in]but the owners are known for their crankiness.
the irish music that we play is not non stop reels,but a mixture of all types of tunes with songs interspersed.
your last remark is extremely patronising,boy.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Most of the people are probably tourists, but the bar staff doesn't want it, point out! You can't force trad on bars, they don't nered it, many pubs are great for talks and discussions and they want trad early in the evenings or not at all, in Dublin, some pubs will not allow any music whatsoever.
Most pubs owners are what you would call, distant in Ireland.
organBeil, I don't think it's a question of wrong or right.Some pubs do and some don't.
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Shylock,
as regards thinking that 5.30 in the evening is not the time for music, maybe not every day, but this was a festival, lots of people looking for something going on, but not much happening outside at that moment as it was raining, and plenty of people in that bar would have been pleased if we had started playing. The festival was to do with traditional boats, and a lot of people who like those like trad music too.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bren, you make your lack of knowledge sound as if it were somehow attributable to me. Most unfair.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Shylock ,most of the people were local people from west Cork,the losers were the pub as we[10 people ]would have stayed longer in the pub and spent more money.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Cathycook,Organbeil,
The pubs in Ireland are never losers, they have the same owners for hundreds of years, why? Because they always make a killing out of the Irish need for pint and a chat. I sympathise with you but understand their point of view, soem have too much trad and don't want it all day, some don't want it at all.
I can't stand the attitude of many pub owners/managers in Ireland, but I do understand.
It's the pub's policy and not the patron's demands that determines what goes.
It's not a money question, they always make money, so 10 people playing afew hours sounds great to a pub that is crying out for business, but that is not your average pub.
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
The same things happens always in my country... They don't like irish music in their pubs... they just put some rock or pop music and that's it... some people don't bother if we play but without taking off the music
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Matt_Celta
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Shylock, I live in Ireland,many rural pubs are closing .they are no longer in the same hands that they have been for hundreds of years,your average pub in rural ireland is crying out for business ,Baltimore is in rural Ireland.
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
organ Beil,
Wether they are rural or not doesn't matter, they have the right to determine whether they allow music or not.
You can argue till the cows come home, but the bottom line is the owner/manager says what goes, and if he doesn't like trad music in his pub at 5.30 that's theend of the story.
It's not unique, many pubs do not want trad music to be played, they decide, not us, not the customers, but the owners, you can't beat them
Regards
Shylock
# Posted on May 27th 2007 by Shylock
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
look at it this way, differnet strokes for different folks. There isa a tapas bar local to me, they occasionally ask me if I want to come down and session there, a bit difficult when there is a lack of players to play
within a 30 minute drive. Amazing how its too far when they have to drive instead of me.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Joze
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
To be fair that is the busiest weekend in baltimore so there is no need for music
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Saint
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Boycott the pub every weekend, make sure no-one ever plays again. I mean, it's not as if they were looking paid or anything.
That's those Cork ones for you Saint. Wouldn't have happened in the "black" North.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
skibb baltimore they were never any good down that way
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Saint
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
The last time i was in baltimore the Irish green flag was flying over the town.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Saint
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Thinking you can walk into anyone's premises and sit down to play music and expect to be made welcome is a bit presumptuous isn't it?
When you think about it.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
They sat down and asked to play, its not like they just started playing without asking...which would have be presumptuous.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by bb
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Well, at least you tried, Cathy.
Just remember the golden rule; "You just can't please all the people all the time."
I'm on your side on this one, but, having just had to decamp down the street when the landlord sold the pub on, I understand that they're the boss, and you have to get permission to do it.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
PS; I wish I'd been at the Festival, period.
Wooden boats and trad music - great !
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
'They sat down and asked to play, its not like they just started playing without asking...which would have be presumptuous.'
Why the amazement then when they were told not to play?
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
maybe it was the wrong answer
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Kilfarboy,because in our experience it is very unusual,most bars like Caseys Baltimore,are vey happy to have musicians particuarly if they play for nothing.
# Posted on May 28th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
This is a "glass half-full vs. glass half-empty" argument if ever there was. There are - what? - half a dozen pubs and venues in Baltimore alone; ten minutes up the road in Skibb there are (what is the current count?) fifteen or more, and in Ballydehob where you live there are what - is it eight?
A lot of these like trad music; some of them like it whenever they can get it; some like it some of the time; some cater more for the locals and prefer C&W, piped music or nothing. One might almost say that you are spoilt for choice.
If a publican makes a commercial decision you think is not the right one - ??? Your problem is what? I take it you're not thinking of going into the licensed trade yourselves.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
i think an increasing number of irish pubs/bars just now would prefer something other than traditional irish music. it has happened in my city, and in ireland as well....this increasing number thinks rock/disco/nightclub music will draw more punters, and the bottom line, is the bottom line. they may be accurate, i don't know. but it is a mini-trend, unfortunately. whether that is the start of maxi-trend, i don;t have a guess....
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
This situation is different ,I ran alot of bars and I would probally have done the same thing with the weekend that was in it but if it was any other weekend he would have said yes. there is no need for music in a pub if its going to be full anyway.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by Saint
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bellman,
the point was that we were there in Baltimore for the wooden boat festival anyway, not at that moment in Skibbereen or Ballydehob. Also although the pub was quite busy it was nothing like packed solid,also has been known to have trad music at other times. the sad thing I think is that a lot of tourists want trad music and can't find it, I couldn't count the number of tourists over the years who when they find out I play the fiddle are asking where they can find trad music locally, and complaining that so far on there holiday they've only found country and western , or whatever.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
would you have been welcome to play after 10pm, or did they have some other music in mind for then?
I assume like many pubs that they make more money off food than drink. And also that certain types of tourists can crowd a bar for long periods without ever spending much money, so number of punters isn't always a good thing.
Not to say that I wouldn't have felt a bit miffed myself, but c'est la vie and all that
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bellman, there are three pubs in Baltimore,BrendanMcarthys has been knocked down,The third , Caseys is agood half mile walk [itwas pouring with rain at the time ]otherwise we would have played outside Bushes Bar.BushesAlthough friendly was packed solid,no coincidence that the less friendly bar was quieter[the locals must know something]
Ballydehob has six bars,and is 18 miles from Baltimore.we were in Baltimore for the wooden boat festival.
Bellman ,you are wriong about Baltimore,there are 3 pubs only,much has changed while youhave been in Australia.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
What seems strange to me is that, instead of allowing live trad music, they put on piped music.
I can understand a preference for NO MUSIC, if people are chatting and want less background disruption.
However the manager and bar staff probably get to hear traditional music every night anyway, and are overdosed.
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by Martin Milner
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
So the golden days are over now that I've gone?
But it doesn't change my point. Do you think you are somehow entitled to be allowed to perform in any bar in Ireland at any time? Or that you should be entitled?
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
I'm not sure about being entitled. But if I see or hear one more pathetic attempt to make Irish bars in Sydney so very very Irish, "top o the mornin, ohhh me little shamrock blarney" blah blah - but who proceed to cut everything even remotely Irish (music, language, dancing) out then I may just have to scream. It’s very popular here for the Irish bars to feature mainly country and Irish. If you’re going to pretend to be all Irish and traditional at least do it realistically. Let’s get honest, if a few lads want to play a tune in a bar and don’t ask for money or free pints....and get turned down, then who is the bad business person?? I mean - free, live entertainment. What more could you want? It comes down to the pure fact that just because you own or run a bar doesn’t mean you have business sense. I'm with you Cathy on this one. That barman sounds like a right idiot.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by bb
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
I take your point bb, but I know that you have spent some time in Ireland, so you must know that it is far more usual for an actual Irish person to prefer C&W / ballady pop to ITM, and most young Irish people think of the Irish language, traditional dancing etc. as totally naff.
As for whether it's bad business, I think that a) we just don't know, and b) it's the licencee's business anyway. It is not impossible (this is, of course, pure speculation) that the landlord of the Algiers, given that the village would be packed with blow-ins and tourists brought by the (afaik generally very successful) boat festival, was counting on keeping up an atmosphere that the locals - the ones who might be there on a wet Wednesday in February - will feel comfortable in, rather than having to listen to yet more diddley dee played by English immigrants. (That senctence was too long, sorry.)
That might or might not be true, and if it is true the landlord might be making the wrong or right decision - my point is that we just don't know, and it's his business.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
sentence, of course
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bellman you say
''it is far more usual for an actual Irish person to prefer C&W / ballady pop to ITM,'' Actually the people next to us who would have liked us to play were Irish. As for ''yet more diddley dee played by English immigrants.'' you are presuming we were all English,(We weren't) and is this relevant. I grew up in an Irish area of London, (Kilburn) later lived in Camden Town and went to Irish sessions there and in Holloway, and have now lived in Ireland for over 20 years. I've been playing Irish music longer than plenty of Irish born people! I'm currently teaching a number of Irish young people locally the fiddle,(so they don't all think it's totally naff.)
bb, Guernsey Pete, anyone else who agreed with me
thanks for your support
Cathy Cook
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
so did you go back at 10 pm?
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Bren
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bellman,the session that you used to attend in Ballydehob which was originally in rosies bar was started by Cathy Cook.
if it hadnt been for blowins, there would not have been a regular session in ballydehob.20 YEARS AGO therewas one indigineous fiddle player,thanks to the efforts of Cathy Cook And more latterly Liam Kennealy[another blowinwho was not playing when he first came to the village,but was inspired to relearn by Cathys session]there are many local people playing.Check out Skibbereen comhaltas[of course you never did while you were there].
Ben no we didnt we had asession with JohnnyMoynihan,Jimmy Crowley.TonyHall,DublinMoran,Ain e Merict in the sailing club.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
I just can't believe that you're so upset that at one time in one place they didn't want you to play. Good grief, get over yourselves!
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Linsey Doyle
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Your Dublin Moran wouldn't happen to have lived in South Wales for a while and run a folk club in Newport by any chance, organ beil?
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
Bellman,
the reason this discussion has gone on so long is not so much because of the original incident but to reply to some of the garbage that you have written since
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
benhall,
yes it is the same Dublin Moran, these days living not far from Ballydehob
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by cathycook
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
"The pubs in Ireland are never losers, they have the same owners for hundreds of years"
Bit of an exageration. The sad fact is 800 pubs in rural ireland have closed their doors in the last 3 years.
"Thinking you can walk into anyone's premises and sit down to play music and expect to be made welcome is a bit presumptuous isn't it?"
Exactly. It's a bit on an intrusion alright. Pity it sisn't work out but some times these things have to be organised well in advance.
I suppose it's just how things are done these days.
Tommy
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by tompipes
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
the landlord was asked,so no intrusion,
we then bought a drink.
we were surprised by his reaction because it was so unusual. there was no presumption.most of the locals were surprised . [one of them said that fellow is abit cranky]however next time thereis a chance of a session in Baltimore,it willnot be to theAlgiers we will go.If we had been made welcome we might have stayed longer or returned there later. instead we8 /12 people went to the sailing club where we had a session as mentioned earlier.
# Posted on May 30th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Irish pub doesn't want Irish music
cathycook, organ beil etc - PLEASE pass on my very best to Dublin Moran. He is the main reason I got heavily into Irish (as opposed to other) trad music in the first place. The man was an inspiration to me from my early teens on.
Sheesh, I'd love to meet up with Dublin again. Bet he hasn't changed ...
# Posted on May 31st 2007 by ethical blend