Hello, I'd really love some critique and advice about my fiddle playing... Here's a short video of me on YouTube, I would appreciate all serious comments on all aspects my playing!
Brave man! You're doing fine, nicely in tune and you keep to the speed you've set. You're mainly bowing with big arm movements. That gets tougher as things get faster and more complicated.
One route is to do without the shoulder rest, that puts the fiddle flatter and helps keep your elbow down so that bowing can come more from wrist and forearm, but YMMV.
I would keep the shoulder rest, raise your fiddle a bit, relax your left wrist, and loosen up your right wrist. Try and get your left elbow a little more under the fiddle..this will help with crossing strings on the g and d string...also try to keep your fingers above the fingerboard. But all in due time...there is a lot going on with the fiddle, and I don't mean to say you are doing a bad job, because you're not.
As far as Farewell to Whiskey, though, it is a lament by Niel Gow, a slow tune to be played slowly and with feeling.It has to do with the British gov'ts prohibition of the use of barley to make whiskey after a failed crop in Scotland. The upbeat tune that should follow that is the strathspey Welcome Whiskey Back Again..
Really good! Your tone is excellent. Ornamentation was a bit Spartan, however that's more of a personal matter of choice. I've always liked plenty of rolls in jigs!
If you do decide to embellish more, get those well established before working on quickening the tempo.
I like your ornaments too---not too many of them and they fit where you put them. One thing is I notice you're playing kind of close to the tip of the bow---I was doing that for a while too and my teacher told me to move more to the middle and even the frog because it makes it easier to accent the rhythm that way and you get a better tone, and also it helps with bow management---you don't run out of bow if you want to do a long downbow. But there are lots of good fiddlers who play closer to the tip, so I imagine there are people who will tell you not to worry about it. Good luck, anyway!
Kennedy you mention I should use more of the middle of the bow... are there any tricks for keeping the bow from bouncing? That's what normally happens when I try to use more of the bow.
I have found that bouncing bow can be reduced by relaxing the right hand. It seems to be a symptom of tension, at least in my playing.
Farewell to Whiskey is listed as a polka in several sources that I have seen. It may have been a lament iriginally but I would say it's is acceptable to play it up-tempo as well.
Gabe, you really need some of the experts here to help you (I've only been playing a year), but I have learned a few things I can tell you...crazy fingers is right, the biggest cuprit is tension. You want most of the movement to come from a relaxed wrist, never the arm---your right elbow can lift up and down, but never back and forth (that's when you sound like you're sawing away---it ain't pretty!).
Try a simple string crossing on open D and A strings in the middle of the bow, over and over, moving only your wrist, not any part of your arm. Play one note slowly and stop the bow when it lands to rest on the next string. Then play the next note and stop with the bow resting on the string for the next note. This will help you play clean. My teacher explained this as you're not really done playing a note until you have the bow ready and poised for the next note. When you can do that, speed it up, then try it in a jig rhythm, DAA DAA or ADD ADD (this is harder because it changes bow directions on you).
Your bow might not be helping you, either. I've been playing with a $35 fiberglass club since I started and it's contributed to the tension in my hand because it's so hard to control. I've been bow shopping lately, though, and it really makes a difference when you have a well-constructed bow that can be stable and responsive at the same time. Lots of good advice on this site for finding a good one, even though it's hard to know what you need when your technique is still developing.
I give you all the credit in the world for putting up that video! So brave! I'd love to see another one in a few months to see how you progress.
Kesh - nice work. good even speed, good intonation, smart slurring, ornaments all very nice. When you play it twice, put the ornaments in different places! the eighth notes are grouped in threes - the middle note could be slightly later - it's maybe just a touch "square" right now.
Think about your vibrato usage - it's a little "automatic" right now. Make sure you don't put it at the end of every high note, or phrase for example.
Now that I listen more carefully, your ornaments will be even better if you don't press your fingers down so hard (depending on what you're looking for). When I do the ornaments, I try to just barely touch the string - I'm not looking for a pitch, I'm looking for something to interrupt the pitches on the main notes. They're still good - it's just something to try.
*grins* audio and video aren't perfectly in synch. That's weird.
Personally, I like to hear a little bit more backbeat on the march and Rakes (more sound on the "ands" if you count 1+2+ etc. in each measure. A little more weight or speed with the bow then will accomplish this. If you're thinking about Farewell to Whiskey as a polka, that will help give it more "lift" (whatever that is) - and you may want a bit more speed on that tune, depending on how your sessions/dancers feel about it.
If your bow is more centred (less at the tip) you won't have to work so hard on string crossings. I was going to say something about how you used your elbow until I realized the audio didn't line up - looks okay once I figured out it was a tech problem
You are a braver man than me. I am in no rush to put samples of my whistle playing up! I am not a fiddler at all so I will leave others to comment on that. Keep it up. In terms of the set it might be an idea to switch Farewell to Whiskey to the start of the set and then you could slow it down and bring out the beauty of the tune.
What I am really on here for now is to have a wee word with crazy_fingerz - Farewell to Whiskey, a polka!!!???!!! I say NO! Never, never, never!!!
Farewell to Whiskey is a slow air, a Scottish lament. It is not some diddley Irish Polka and it never will be. I have certainly heard it played with a bit more tempo than I would like but never to the degree that it could be classed as a Polka. I am not sure how it is listed on here (if it is) but if it is as a polka that is just because Jeremy does not have a section or classification that covers slower tunes (and I can perfectly understand why before anyone gets on their high horse) and a polka perhaps fitted the general time signature. The tune should be played with a loose feel though and if Niel Gow heard you calling his tune a Polka then he would hunt you down from beyond the grave and haunt your every dream!
"No Cause", I guess we should get warning to Dave Mallinson that the ghost of Niel Gow is going to be paying him an unpleasant visit. Page 5 of Mally's 100 Irish Polkas contains Farewell to Whiskey.
Ach No Cause, this is really only part of the folk process - not worth getting one's knickers in a twist over. Many tunes are played as different types of tunes - when a tune can be played in several different ways, and sounds good in most of them, to me, that's the mark of a truly excellent tune. e.g. yet another Scottish tune "Lass O'Gowrie", played as the Polka "Lakes of Sligo" - it's also played as a slow air, the name of which escapes me just now.
One cause of bouncing on long bows can be too many muscles involved. If the upper arm is almost still and the forearm is just moving in the line of the bow there's less likelihood of bounce. (Just a bit of upper arm movement is needed to stop the bow hand swing round in a circle.) A high elbow which moves up and down with the bow stroke makes it much tougher to avoid bounce.
I think the French terms for "up" and "down" bow translate as push and draw, which I find give a really helpful feel.
First, well done for having the bottle to be visible! IMHO this site would be a lot better grounded if more people would do that, particularly the ones with axes to grind! I've done it too, so I can't pretend to be more than I am.
I'm not a fiddler, so no technical comments from me, but I hear a firm foundation being played, and my only (boring) suggestion is keep on (and on) going!
I had no idea that Farewell to Whisky started as a slow air. Presumably that's true, and interesting too, but it's been played as a polka for a long time. John McKenna recorded it (considerably faster than you play it) as a polka-like tune in 1928, so it's life as a polka is a lot longer than the popularity of the bodhran - does that make it traditional? I think so.
There are lots of slow tnes that sound good speeded up and probably even more fast tunes where the melody and beauty of the tune is brought out if slowed down a little.
Fiddle feedback desired!
Fiddle feedback desired!
Hello, I'd really love some critique and advice about my fiddle playing... Here's a short video of me on YouTube, I would appreciate all serious comments on all aspects my playing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGZE0xQgzVg
Thanks very much!
Gabe
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by Munichg
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
correction: aspects ** of ** my playing...
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by Munichg
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Brave man! You're doing fine, nicely in tune and you keep to the speed you've set. You're mainly bowing with big arm movements. That gets tougher as things get faster and more complicated.
One route is to do without the shoulder rest, that puts the fiddle flatter and helps keep your elbow down so that bowing can come more from wrist and forearm, but YMMV.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
as stated above, played in tune...
I would keep the shoulder rest, raise your fiddle a bit, relax your left wrist, and loosen up your right wrist. Try and get your left elbow a little more under the fiddle..this will help with crossing strings on the g and d string...also try to keep your fingers above the fingerboard. But all in due time...there is a lot going on with the fiddle, and I don't mean to say you are doing a bad job, because you're not.
As far as Farewell to Whiskey, though, it is a lament by Niel Gow, a slow tune to be played slowly and with feeling.It has to do with the British gov'ts prohibition of the use of barley to make whiskey after a failed crop in Scotland. The upbeat tune that should follow that is the strathspey Welcome Whiskey Back Again..
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Really good! Your tone is excellent. Ornamentation was a bit Spartan, however that's more of a personal matter of choice. I've always liked plenty of rolls in jigs!
If you do decide to embellish more, get those well established before working on quickening the tempo.
Nicely done, and best to ya!
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by lednar
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
I like your ornaments too---not too many of them and they fit where you put them. One thing is I notice you're playing kind of close to the tip of the bow---I was doing that for a while too and my teacher told me to move more to the middle and even the frog because it makes it easier to accent the rhythm that way and you get a better tone, and also it helps with bow management---you don't run out of bow if you want to do a long downbow. But there are lots of good fiddlers who play closer to the tip, so I imagine there are people who will tell you not to worry about it. Good luck, anyway!
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Many thanks for the replies!
Gabe
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by Munichg
Bow bouncing...
Kennedy you mention I should use more of the middle of the bow... are there any tricks for keeping the bow from bouncing? That's what normally happens when I try to use more of the bow.
Gabe
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by Munichg
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
I have found that bouncing bow can be reduced by relaxing the right hand. It seems to be a symptom of tension, at least in my playing.
Farewell to Whiskey is listed as a polka in several sources that I have seen. It may have been a lament iriginally but I would say it's is acceptable to play it up-tempo as well.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by timmy!
Re: Bouncing Bow
This may seem obvious, but I have had to remind novices to loosen the tension on the bow if there is too much bounce.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by lednar
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Gabe, you really need some of the experts here to help you (I've only been playing a year), but I have learned a few things I can tell you...crazy fingers is right, the biggest cuprit is tension. You want most of the movement to come from a relaxed wrist, never the arm---your right elbow can lift up and down, but never back and forth (that's when you sound like you're sawing away---it ain't pretty!).
Try a simple string crossing on open D and A strings in the middle of the bow, over and over, moving only your wrist, not any part of your arm. Play one note slowly and stop the bow when it lands to rest on the next string. Then play the next note and stop with the bow resting on the string for the next note. This will help you play clean. My teacher explained this as you're not really done playing a note until you have the bow ready and poised for the next note. When you can do that, speed it up, then try it in a jig rhythm, DAA DAA or ADD ADD (this is harder because it changes bow directions on you).
Your bow might not be helping you, either. I've been playing with a $35 fiberglass club since I started and it's contributed to the tension in my hand because it's so hard to control. I've been bow shopping lately, though, and it really makes a difference when you have a well-constructed bow that can be stable and responsive at the same time. Lots of good advice on this site for finding a good one, even though it's hard to know what you need when your technique is still developing.
I give you all the credit in the world for putting up that video! So brave! I'd love to see another one in a few months to see how you progress.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Kesh - nice work. good even speed, good intonation, smart slurring, ornaments all very nice. When you play it twice, put the ornaments in different places! the eighth notes are grouped in threes - the middle note could be slightly later - it's maybe just a touch "square" right now.
Think about your vibrato usage - it's a little "automatic" right now. Make sure you don't put it at the end of every high note, or phrase for example.
Now that I listen more carefully, your ornaments will be even better if you don't press your fingers down so hard (depending on what you're looking for). When I do the ornaments, I try to just barely touch the string - I'm not looking for a pitch, I'm looking for something to interrupt the pitches on the main notes. They're still good - it's just something to try.
*grins* audio and video aren't perfectly in synch. That's weird.
Personally, I like to hear a little bit more backbeat on the march and Rakes (more sound on the "ands" if you count 1+2+ etc. in each measure. A little more weight or speed with the bow then will accomplish this. If you're thinking about Farewell to Whiskey as a polka, that will help give it more "lift" (whatever that is) - and you may want a bit more speed on that tune, depending on how your sessions/dancers feel about it.
If your bow is more centred (less at the tip) you won't have to work so hard on string crossings. I was going to say something about how you used your elbow until I realized the audio didn't line up - looks okay once I figured out it was a tech problem
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by reenactor
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Well done Gabe,
and it never will be. I have certainly heard it played with a bit more tempo than I would like but never to the degree that it could be classed as a Polka. I am not sure how it is listed on here (if it is) but if it is as a polka that is just because Jeremy does not have a section or classification that covers slower tunes (and I can perfectly understand why before anyone gets on their high horse) and a polka perhaps fitted the general time signature. The tune should be played with a loose feel though and if Niel Gow heard you calling his tune a Polka then he would hunt you down from beyond the grave and haunt your every dream!
You are a braver man than me. I am in no rush to put samples of my whistle playing up! I am not a fiddler at all so I will leave others to comment on that. Keep it up. In terms of the set it might be an idea to switch Farewell to Whiskey to the start of the set and then you could slow it down and bring out the beauty of the tune.
What I am really on here for now is to have a wee word with crazy_fingerz - Farewell to Whiskey, a polka!!!???!!! I say NO! Never, never, never!!!
Farewell to Whiskey is a slow air, a Scottish lament. It is not some diddley Irish Polka
Anyway that is me finished - rant over!
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
"No Cause", I guess we should get warning to Dave Mallinson that the ghost of Niel Gow is going to be paying him an unpleasant visit. Page 5 of Mally's 100 Irish Polkas contains Farewell to Whiskey.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by timmy!
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Ach No Cause, this is really only part of the folk process - not worth getting one's knickers in a twist over. Many tunes are played as different types of tunes - when a tune can be played in several different ways, and sounds good in most of them, to me, that's the mark of a truly excellent tune. e.g. yet another Scottish tune "Lass O'Gowrie", played as the Polka "Lakes of Sligo" - it's also played as a slow air, the name of which escapes me just now.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by On Sabbatical
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Woops, a wee correction required: there should be a space between the apostrophy and the G of Gowrie.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by On Sabbatical
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
You know, a lot of the dance tunes we play started as airs.
# Posted on May 14th 2007 by reenactor
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
One cause of bouncing on long bows can be too many muscles involved. If the upper arm is almost still and the forearm is just moving in the line of the bow there's less likelihood of bounce. (Just a bit of upper arm movement is needed to stop the bow hand swing round in a circle.) A high elbow which moves up and down with the bow stroke makes it much tougher to avoid bounce.
I think the French terms for "up" and "down" bow translate as push and draw, which I find give a really helpful feel.
# Posted on May 15th 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
here's one I had bookmarked on bowing patterns,
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/132/comments#comment1747
and then this one, too on ornamentation
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/4478
and please, if ya wanna play a polka, play a tune that was written as a polka
# Posted on May 15th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
First, well done for having the bottle to be visible! IMHO this site would be a lot better grounded if more people would do that, particularly the ones with axes to grind! I've done it too, so I can't pretend to be more than I am.
I'm not a fiddler, so no technical comments from me, but I hear a firm foundation being played, and my only (boring) suggestion is keep on (and on) going!
I had no idea that Farewell to Whisky started as a slow air. Presumably that's true, and interesting too, but it's been played as a polka for a long time. John McKenna recorded it (considerably faster than you play it) as a polka-like tune in 1928, so it's life as a polka is a lot longer than the popularity of the bodhran - does that make it traditional? I think so.
# Posted on May 15th 2007 by Alex Wilding
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
There are lots of slow tnes that sound good speeded up and probably even more fast tunes where the melody and beauty of the tune is brought out if slowed down a little.
I am in hell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKOTKpzn3Q
On the other hand follow this link and click on the sound clip for Farewell To Whiskey - this is how it should sound!
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6678861&cart=539010952&BAB=M
It is a wonderful tune but if it is speeded up into a Polka then it tends to sound like the worst kind of cheesy music going!
# Posted on May 15th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
That is not meant as a criticism of Gabe. I just don't think the tune sounds right speeded up. It loses the beauty.
# Posted on May 15th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
This is a very useful thread for me; I wish more people would start threads like this one. Can't record myself ....
Keep up the good work, Gabe. Fine clear tone.
# Posted on May 16th 2007 by Henk Bos
Re: Fiddle feedback desired!
Thanks again for all the replies... I'm beginning to see what a resource this forum can be. Thank you!
Gabe
# Posted on May 18th 2007 by Munichg