Fact!
Golf Clubs too. Long gone is the time when you'd linger for a game of cards and have a few pints!
For the first time I saw a notice in my golf club advising that there were vacancies for new members.
& local post offices too, sadly... As Eire becomes more prosperous overheads grow and profit also becomes more important to the survival of any business...
At least they probably haven't had their profits swiped by bootleggers.
When the UK considerably relaxed the limits on drink imported "for personal use", around 1990, people in Kent etc. rushed to take advantage, the French hypermarkets being just a short ferry-crossing away. Soon enough, vast quantities of cheap booze were being bootlegged round SE England and beyond, bypassing the pubs and the brewers, who made quite a fuss and claimed this was threatening the continued existence of many pubs.
At the height of this furore a coach broke down on the M2 in Kent. It was discovered that the sheer weight of drink belonging to the passengers( "for personal use", of course!) had broken one of the axles.
Fewer pubs are hiring musicians. A small pub owner has to sell a lot of pints to cover €100 for a couple of players.
Gone are the days when people spoke quietly enough so that musician could hear each other. These days people shout to each other to such an extent that musicians are often drowned out by the chat. On the weekends pubs become meat markets for the young twenties. Pubs in general are less appealing places then they were when I was young- and I don't think it's because I am older.
The ban on smoking is responsible for some loss of trade, along with the high price of booze, the ubiquity of television in homes, and warmer houses. Gone are the days when the pub was a meeting place for young and old, a community center for musicians, and an information center for the community.
Everything changes and though you no longer see broken old men who used to blow their dole in the pubs, I miss the comfort , the music, and the intimacy of the old days.
Golf Clubs in decline in Ireland?!!! I wish it were so but sadly we have more golf clubs per capita than anywhere in the world, I would think. I suppose it's ditto for houses now as 'everyone' seems to own 2 or 3. Bit like the old car, when not many people had them, a car was useful ... but when each household has several and everyone wants to go out at the same time, not much use at all. I've nothing personally against people strolling around golf parklands whacking a little ball here & there. But what I do object to is the way these golf courses are often built in amenity areas that the public would access the countryside for walking etc. e.g. the Old Head of Kinsale, Bray Head, various sand dune systems. Wouldn't it be great if a few of them close down and are allowed to revert to nature.
I know I’ve told this story in the past but I recall speaking to a hurler in a pub in Limerick City in 2002. He was on about how Ireland was catching up to America in terms of economic growth and material lifestyle. My only words to him were “Be careful what you wish for.”.
I read somewhere that Ireland today has more folks moving onto the island than leaving. It must be brilliant that she can now provide for all her people unlike so many times in the past. I truly hope that the growth is managed so that her communities stay strong and folks don’t become as selfish and self absorbed as over here.
I know of a recently built pub (a large, 2-story affair, built new about six years ago) that was torn down after the owner was offered twice what he paid to build the place, and the new owner wanted condos.
Pubs are indeed going away in Ireland, with a wide variety of causes all contributing to it. One of those reasons (beyond the ones stated by cocusflute) include crackdowns by the Gardai against drunk driving - even in the small towns in the West, Gardai are brought in on weekends to set up checkpoints, and they watch the bars/pubs themselves.
WE noticed this too when we were traveled from Shannon to Donegal. More 'bars' like we see in the US. Lots of flat screen TV's.
And as far as music, we were really taken by how much American style Country/Western was being played. I don't listen to that in the States, much less travel 1/4 way around the world for it.
What's even worse than the American C/W music in Irish pubs is the interminable sports channels showing British soccer teams or worse still, news programmes with the sound turned off! If they are dying off then I'm not in the least bit surprised.
C/W music has been popular in Ireland for a lot longer than you might think, and it's little to do with the pub.
Pubs are changing to suit the demand; as the article points out, people (mostly 20 & 30 somethings) are heading to the larger cities because the bars and nightclubs (not pubs) are there.
It's all part of the changing demand. Just 25 years ago (roughly one generation) few people had PCs - lots of folks in the rural areas didn't have televisions or even electricity.
Today, most folks have all the technology - including mobile phones. Who needs to meet up at the pub to have a jar and catch up on the days' events when you've already heard it via the television or the text message?
10 people drinking 5 pints each covers the cost. Better if he has 5 couples, with some drinking mixers, then the small pub owner is in profit. Any more than 10, he is laughing.
And the Republic of Ireland has nearly caught the US of A. Of the ten most developed (richest) countries in the world, the USA leads. It also has the most poverty. Republic of Ireland is second on the poverty list. They are all drinking in the Golf Club now.
I live in a rural area and like to travel into a session each week as I can. This is 20 miles away, I have a pint and play a few tunes but given the current alcohol limits, I can't really chance a second pint. So the publican ain't making much money out of me. Now, I hear talk from time to time that the limit is to be reduced even further... perhaps possible that one pint would put you over the limit. Leaving aside the unlikely impact that such a change would make on road death stats, it's not too hard to see where the small rural Irish pub is headed.
Interesting article in the New York Times today. Irish real estate developers are buying alot of Manhattan real estate. Chicago's new proposed tallest building in the world is being done by an Irish developer. Maybe Bliss is on the money that Ireland is catching the USA. Maybe not a moment too soon!
I just hope they build pubs instead of sports bars like we saw sprouting up all over the south and west.
Given the stratospheric height of real estate in Manhattan and Chicago, building pubs won't provide the necessary return on their investment. More likely they'll be building offices & condos/townhomes.
And the Irish have a long way to go before they catch up to the Dutch and Japanese in USA real estate holdings.
Two points and I've spoken to many rural publicans about this. Firstly, the majority don't see any point in opening at lunchtimes (apart from Saturday and Sunday) and, away from the high season - roughly July and August, but May to September in some quarters) - will only open in the evening if there's a regular session or a big match (that's English football or Celtic) on the TV.
Also, thanks to the no-smoking ban and the laudable crackdown on drink-drivers, there's been a notable increase in the numbers of house sessions. The only problem is that you have to know the house's owner to get an invite.
Truth be told, none of this affects places which have a high density of session pubs (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Belfast, Kilkenny, Miltown Malbay in summer, etc.), but it does have a notable effect on rural counties even in high season. Only last week a well-known fiddler told me that, as far as he was concerned, the Donegal session scene was "absolutely dead". I hope he's wrong, but haven't yet found any evidence to the contrary.
Irish pubs in decline?
Irish pubs in decline?
Check this out at BBC News:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6625687.stm?lsf
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by cathrynb
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Fact!
Golf Clubs too. Long gone is the time when you'd linger for a game of cards and have a few pints!
For the first time I saw a notice in my golf club advising that there were vacancies for new members.
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by John B
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
& local post offices too, sadly... As Eire becomes more prosperous overheads grow and profit also becomes more important to the survival of any business...
# Posted on May 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
At least they probably haven't had their profits swiped by bootleggers.
When the UK considerably relaxed the limits on drink imported "for personal use", around 1990, people in Kent etc. rushed to take advantage, the French hypermarkets being just a short ferry-crossing away. Soon enough, vast quantities of cheap booze were being bootlegged round SE England and beyond, bypassing the pubs and the brewers, who made quite a fuss and claimed this was threatening the continued existence of many pubs.
At the height of this furore a coach broke down on the M2 in Kent. It was discovered that the sheer weight of drink belonging to the passengers( "for personal use", of course!) had broken one of the axles.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Have to build some nice country pubs and plant some nice vegetables to fill in those vacant golf courses. (Snigger)
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Fewer pubs are hiring musicians. A small pub owner has to sell a lot of pints to cover €100 for a couple of players.
Gone are the days when people spoke quietly enough so that musician could hear each other. These days people shout to each other to such an extent that musicians are often drowned out by the chat. On the weekends pubs become meat markets for the young twenties. Pubs in general are less appealing places then they were when I was young- and I don't think it's because I am older.
The ban on smoking is responsible for some loss of trade, along with the high price of booze, the ubiquity of television in homes, and warmer houses. Gone are the days when the pub was a meeting place for young and old, a community center for musicians, and an information center for the community.
Everything changes and though you no longer see broken old men who used to blow their dole in the pubs, I miss the comfort , the music, and the intimacy of the old days.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by David Levine
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Golf Clubs in decline in Ireland?!!! I wish it were so but sadly we have more golf clubs per capita than anywhere in the world, I would think. I suppose it's ditto for houses now as 'everyone' seems to own 2 or 3. Bit like the old car, when not many people had them, a car was useful ... but when each household has several and everyone wants to go out at the same time, not much use at all. I've nothing personally against people strolling around golf parklands whacking a little ball here & there. But what I do object to is the way these golf courses are often built in amenity areas that the public would access the countryside for walking etc. e.g. the Old Head of Kinsale, Bray Head, various sand dune systems. Wouldn't it be great if a few of them close down and are allowed to revert to nature.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
I thought you were talking about those terrible "theme" puibs in England.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
I know I’ve told this story in the past but I recall speaking to a hurler in a pub in Limerick City in 2002. He was on about how Ireland was catching up to America in terms of economic growth and material lifestyle. My only words to him were “Be careful what you wish for.”.
I read somewhere that Ireland today has more folks moving onto the island than leaving. It must be brilliant that she can now provide for all her people unlike so many times in the past. I truly hope that the growth is managed so that her communities stay strong and folks don’t become as selfish and self absorbed as over here.
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by ejsant
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
I know of a recently built pub (a large, 2-story affair, built new about six years ago) that was torn down after the owner was offered twice what he paid to build the place, and the new owner wanted condos.
Pubs are indeed going away in Ireland, with a wide variety of causes all contributing to it. One of those reasons (beyond the ones stated by cocusflute) include crackdowns by the Gardai against drunk driving - even in the small towns in the West, Gardai are brought in on weekends to set up checkpoints, and they watch the bars/pubs themselves.
The era isn't ending - it's over.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by brianc
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
WE noticed this too when we were traveled from Shannon to Donegal. More 'bars' like we see in the US. Lots of flat screen TV's.
And as far as music, we were really taken by how much American style Country/Western was being played. I don't listen to that in the States, much less travel 1/4 way around the world for it.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
What's even worse than the American C/W music in Irish pubs is the interminable sports channels showing British soccer teams or worse still, news programmes with the sound turned off! If they are dying off then I'm not in the least bit surprised.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
C/W music has been popular in Ireland for a lot longer than you might think, and it's little to do with the pub.
Pubs are changing to suit the demand; as the article points out, people (mostly 20 & 30 somethings) are heading to the larger cities because the bars and nightclubs (not pubs) are there.
It's all part of the changing demand. Just 25 years ago (roughly one generation) few people had PCs - lots of folks in the rural areas didn't have televisions or even electricity.
Today, most folks have all the technology - including mobile phones. Who needs to meet up at the pub to have a jar and catch up on the days' events when you've already heard it via the television or the text message?
The times they have-a-changed, my friend.
# Posted on May 7th 2007 by brianc
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
10 people drinking 5 pints each covers the cost. Better if he has 5 couples, with some drinking mixers, then the small pub owner is in profit. Any more than 10, he is laughing.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
And the Republic of Ireland has nearly caught the US of A. Of the ten most developed (richest) countries in the world, the USA leads. It also has the most poverty. Republic of Ireland is second on the poverty list. They are all drinking in the Golf Club now.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
I live in a rural area and like to travel into a session each week as I can. This is 20 miles away, I have a pint and play a few tunes but given the current alcohol limits, I can't really chance a second pint. So the publican ain't making much money out of me. Now, I hear talk from time to time that the limit is to be reduced even further... perhaps possible that one pint would put you over the limit. Leaving aside the unlikely impact that such a change would make on road death stats, it's not too hard to see where the small rural Irish pub is headed.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Interesting article in the New York Times today. Irish real estate developers are buying alot of Manhattan real estate. Chicago's new proposed tallest building in the world is being done by an Irish developer. Maybe Bliss is on the money that Ireland is catching the USA. Maybe not a moment too soon!
I just hope they build pubs instead of sports bars like we saw sprouting up all over the south and west.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Don't hold your breath on that, Zippy.
Given the stratospheric height of real estate in Manhattan and Chicago, building pubs won't provide the necessary return on their investment. More likely they'll be building offices & condos/townhomes.
And the Irish have a long way to go before they catch up to the Dutch and Japanese in USA real estate holdings.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by brianc
Re: Irish pubs in decline?
Two points and I've spoken to many rural publicans about this. Firstly, the majority don't see any point in opening at lunchtimes (apart from Saturday and Sunday) and, away from the high season - roughly July and August, but May to September in some quarters) - will only open in the evening if there's a regular session or a big match (that's English football or Celtic) on the TV.
Also, thanks to the no-smoking ban and the laudable crackdown on drink-drivers, there's been a notable increase in the numbers of house sessions. The only problem is that you have to know the house's owner to get an invite.
Truth be told, none of this affects places which have a high density of session pubs (Dublin, Cork, Galway, Belfast, Kilkenny, Miltown Malbay in summer, etc.), but it does have a notable effect on rural counties even in high season. Only last week a well-known fiddler told me that, as far as he was concerned, the Donegal session scene was "absolutely dead". I hope he's wrong, but haven't yet found any evidence to the contrary.
# Posted on May 8th 2007 by MacCruiskeen