So I've been playing violin for 7 years and fiddle for 3, and my right wrist goes through periods (usually just a couple hours or a day, but varying in frequency) where it gets really tense and stiffish when I'm playing. It definitely messes up my playing in the short run, and I'm worried about carpal tunnel or whatever later...I've learned little tricks like to squish your fingers straight down, and some of them work a bit...does anyone else know of anything else that might help? Thanks.
Don't put a death grip on the bow--remind yourself to relax your right hand as you play. And remember to take a break from time to time. No point in running yourself into the ground.
I have tendonitis in both wrists and thumbs from years of improper playing technique. In your right hand, make sure that your thumb s not "popped" or really tense. If your thumb is tense, this tenses up your wrist as well and inhibits the flexibility which is necessary to play correctly. Your thumb should just be lightly resting on the front part of the frog (or against the tip of your pointer finger, if you hold your bow a little higher up). Watch your wrist to make sure it doesn't break over: there should be a smooth connection from your knuckles, through your hand and wrist, to your forearm. Your wrist should not bend upwards, except when you are at the very bottom of the bow, really close to the frog. Then it just has to bend, and it will naturally.
I second what the other two posters wrote: take breaks in between playing. I play 4-6 hours a day: the only my hands don't fall off is because I stop every 30-45 minutes and take a 10 minute break.
The most important thing I ever learned regarding bowhold is that it's not your hand that holds it up, it's the fiddle. You just move the bow around.
You could try this exercise for the perfect bow hold:
Step 1
With *both* your arms, fling them about, as if trying to shake off your fingers, until the whole of both of your arms is really floppy.
Step 2
Let both your arms just drop down to your sides.
Step 3
*Without* either moving your hand position or losing that relaxed feeling in your arm, rotate your right forearm so that the plane of your wrist is, instead of being parallel with your body, at right angles to it.
Step 4
*Without* either moving your hand position or losing that relaxed feeling, lift up your arm so that the hand is at the right level for the bow. It's very important that you lift your arm FROM YOUR ARM, ie not from your hand, as this would change the shape of your hand.
Step 5
Use left arm to place bow in the slight cureve left by your fingers and thumb.
DO NOT ADJUST YOUR HAND POSITION AT ALL
Et voila! If you've followed the above religiously, you have the perfect bow hold. And, as thebunnystomper says, let the fiddle hold the bow up, otherwise, at the first sign of any stiffness or the hand holding the bow up instead, go back to Step 1.
There's a great book called Conquering Carpal Tunnel & Other Repetitive Strain Injuries, by Sharon Butler. It has wonderful exercises that have really helped my carpal tunnel. You don't have to wait until you get CT either. The exercises will help right now, they are amazing.
Don't mess around with CT because if you don't know exactly what moves are causing it and you keep doing them the same way, this is progressive and can lead to permenant nerve damage.
I never had a death grip on guitar and am a very relaxed player... if anything the hand motions made my hands feel better. I gave myself CT over the winter by being mountain woman and cutting wood with a chain saw daily to heat my house. I actually loved doing it, loved stacking wood, it was wonderful exercise, cleaned the property and was free heat in these days of way too expensive oil. I later learned the vibrations from the saw can do it.... people who work with jack hammers get it often as well, but any repetitive strain can do it too.
See the Dr. for a proper diagnosis, it's important. The exercises for CT and sleeping in wrist splints at night got rid of most of it, all pain gone, but the numbness and tingling were driving me crazy and it was hard to feel the strings sometimes. I just started acupuncture recently and am now 99% symptom free, just the most minor tingling over night in the right hand, and only if you are really looking for it.
It's important to get diagnosed and take the proper steps before you get permenant nerve damage. When that happens usually surgery is the only remaining option, and who needs that. You can't use your hand for 6-8 weeks either and likely couldn't play music for easily six months. And you need physical therapy.
it's not something to be messed with, if you love playing, take care of your hands and wrists. No more chain saw for me. I will buy my wood though and carry it using the wrist splints. Work on getting looser with the bow of course as others said. I am not a fiddler and don't know the movements involved, but with guitar I do know the more muscle in the hands you build up, the looser your playing will be. Guitarists will often get pain in the thumb joint from a death grip on the neck. When their hands (left or chording/noting hand) have enough strength to where the thumb just rests on the neck, and they can actually play with the strength of the fingers against the fingerboard and let the thumb go loose, is when they no longer need the death grip. So exercising the hands too may help in building up tiny muscles in the hands. The bowing hand, I just can't comment on and will leave that to the fiddlers.
Take care of this ASAP, before you get the real pain that doesn't go away when you are not playing!
Hi, I'm student of herbalical medicament, I had a bad tendonitis in my knee, so I've put a common vegetable, in italian called "Cavolo". It make feel your wrist better!
Ben's advice is one of the best and clearest instructions for acquiring good bowing hand posture I've come across in print. What he says also applies to the cellist and the classical guitarist.
Apply his advice to the left hand and you'll have a fluid and relaxed left hand with no hint of the dreaded "death grip".
Did you know that a death grip on the neck of the fiddle deadens its tone?
I used to have similar problems, especially from playing quick reels with lots of separate bows and tons of triplets.
I changed up my bowing (more slurs), and replaced many of the triplets with rolls, and my wrist problems went away completely.
But I concur with Iris. This can be serious, and if it's getting worse now, it will likely continue to get worse until you either fix it, or stop playing--and if you don't fix it, you'll end up having to stop playing.
Ben.... hmmm....wonder if they will think we all have Tourettes! Anyway, just tried the shakeout.... very relaxing! Thanks, great idea. I am loose as a goose when I play... my hands and arms anyway, but where I really get pain, and others may get this too on guitar, zouk, etc. is the leaning on the right leg if a righty player, and the fact that my right arm is lifted up to shoulder level to get over the guitar body.
I think the net effect of 44 years of playing is that my whole right side is shot, stretched out on the ribcage muscles..... neck to toe, totally whacked out and I have had much pain from it and I now suspect it may be at the root of migraines, which seem to start in my neck, right side. So I recently got a classical player's footstool, it's $10 and adjustable. It keeps your body upright, and my right leg is raised enough that I can angle the guitar down my lap a little, thus lowering shoulder, which many call "guitar shoulder", a sort of bursitis I think.
I also use mainly my ergonomic guitar these days with the slope under the right arm and soft rounded edges instead of bindings, so there is no pinch to that area.
Did you know also that some guitarists who sit have actually given themselves vascular problems and blood clots in the thigh/leg the guitar rests on. I got major bad sciatica on the right leg too, which is mainly gone due to evening yoga targeting that area. And the footstool keeps pressure off the leg, the leg has the guitar on top, chair on bottom, you leaning down on it, a big sandwhich....you can see how it constricts nerves and bloodflow. I have told some young players to be really careful now, and they look at me like a crazy old lady!
Never mind other intrument ailments, Violin Hickeys, collarbone aches. Concertina fingers all cramped. We pay for the music!
Anyway since starting the acupuncture, I may get a little tingle in right hand overnight, but totally zero pain or tingles all day. Amazing! And the hand and wrist exercises in the book. The body can repair itself pretty quickly sometimes if you change a few things.
After years of fluting, kayaking, and cutting stained glass, my carpal tunnel was no longer to be ignored. The doctor said it was in "early stages of nerve death"- pretty severe.
Had the operation a few weeks ago. Two weeks later it was healed, and I am now back to playing my Olwell as if it never happened. Even with the cut ligament, I don't detect much if any loss of strength.
So, take the "six weeks/six months" timeframe with a grain of salt.
Right wrist (fiddle)
Right wrist (fiddle)
So I've been playing violin for 7 years and fiddle for 3, and my right wrist goes through periods (usually just a couple hours or a day, but varying in frequency) where it gets really tense and stiffish when I'm playing. It definitely messes up my playing in the short run, and I'm worried about carpal tunnel or whatever later...I've learned little tricks like to squish your fingers straight down, and some of them work a bit...does anyone else know of anything else that might help? Thanks.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by possumawesome
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Don't put a death grip on the bow--remind yourself to relax your right hand as you play. And remember to take a break from time to time. No point in running yourself into the ground.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by John Galt
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
In between tunes, open and close your hand and rotate your wrist a bit. Keeping your hand in a fixed position can promote stiffness.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
I have tendonitis in both wrists and thumbs from years of improper playing technique. In your right hand, make sure that your thumb s not "popped" or really tense. If your thumb is tense, this tenses up your wrist as well and inhibits the flexibility which is necessary to play correctly. Your thumb should just be lightly resting on the front part of the frog (or against the tip of your pointer finger, if you hold your bow a little higher up). Watch your wrist to make sure it doesn't break over: there should be a smooth connection from your knuckles, through your hand and wrist, to your forearm. Your wrist should not bend upwards, except when you are at the very bottom of the bow, really close to the frog. Then it just has to bend, and it will naturally.
I second what the other two posters wrote: take breaks in between playing. I play 4-6 hours a day: the only my hands don't fall off is because I stop every 30-45 minutes and take a 10 minute break.
The most important thing I ever learned regarding bowhold is that it's not your hand that holds it up, it's the fiddle. You just move the bow around.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by meredithrachael
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Agree with bunnystomper - all good stuff.
You could try this exercise for the perfect bow hold:
Step 1
With *both* your arms, fling them about, as if trying to shake off your fingers, until the whole of both of your arms is really floppy.
Step 2
Let both your arms just drop down to your sides.
Step 3
*Without* either moving your hand position or losing that relaxed feeling in your arm, rotate your right forearm so that the plane of your wrist is, instead of being parallel with your body, at right angles to it.
Step 4
*Without* either moving your hand position or losing that relaxed feeling, lift up your arm so that the hand is at the right level for the bow. It's very important that you lift your arm FROM YOUR ARM, ie not from your hand, as this would change the shape of your hand.
Step 5
Use left arm to place bow in the slight cureve left by your fingers and thumb.
DO NOT ADJUST YOUR HAND POSITION AT ALL
Et voila! If you've followed the above religiously, you have the perfect bow hold. And, as thebunnystomper says, let the fiddle hold the bow up, otherwise, at the first sign of any stiffness or the hand holding the bow up instead, go back to Step 1.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
There's a great book called Conquering Carpal Tunnel & Other Repetitive Strain Injuries, by Sharon Butler. It has wonderful exercises that have really helped my carpal tunnel. You don't have to wait until you get CT either. The exercises will help right now, they are amazing.
Don't mess around with CT because if you don't know exactly what moves are causing it and you keep doing them the same way, this is progressive and can lead to permenant nerve damage.
I never had a death grip on guitar and am a very relaxed player... if anything the hand motions made my hands feel better. I gave myself CT over the winter by being mountain woman and cutting wood with a chain saw daily to heat my house. I actually loved doing it, loved stacking wood, it was wonderful exercise, cleaned the property and was free heat in these days of way too expensive oil. I later learned the vibrations from the saw can do it.... people who work with jack hammers get it often as well, but any repetitive strain can do it too.
See the Dr. for a proper diagnosis, it's important. The exercises for CT and sleeping in wrist splints at night got rid of most of it, all pain gone, but the numbness and tingling were driving me crazy and it was hard to feel the strings sometimes. I just started acupuncture recently and am now 99% symptom free, just the most minor tingling over night in the right hand, and only if you are really looking for it.
It's important to get diagnosed and take the proper steps before you get permenant nerve damage. When that happens usually surgery is the only remaining option, and who needs that. You can't use your hand for 6-8 weeks either and likely couldn't play music for easily six months. And you need physical therapy.
it's not something to be messed with, if you love playing, take care of your hands and wrists. No more chain saw for me. I will buy my wood though and carry it using the wrist splints. Work on getting looser with the bow of course as others said. I am not a fiddler and don't know the movements involved, but with guitar I do know the more muscle in the hands you build up, the looser your playing will be. Guitarists will often get pain in the thumb joint from a death grip on the neck. When their hands (left or chording/noting hand) have enough strength to where the thumb just rests on the neck, and they can actually play with the strength of the fingers against the fingerboard and let the thumb go loose, is when they no longer need the death grip. So exercising the hands too may help in building up tiny muscles in the hands. The bowing hand, I just can't comment on and will leave that to the fiddlers.
Take care of this ASAP, before you get the real pain that doesn't go away when you are not playing!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Hi, I'm student of herbalical medicament, I had a bad tendonitis in my knee, so I've put a common vegetable, in italian called "Cavolo". It make feel your wrist better!
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by TRINELE
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Ben's advice is one of the best and clearest instructions for acquiring good bowing hand posture I've come across in print. What he says also applies to the cellist and the classical guitarist.
Apply his advice to the left hand and you'll have a fluid and relaxed left hand with no hint of the dreaded "death grip".
Did you know that a death grip on the neck of the fiddle deadens its tone?
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
I used to have similar problems, especially from playing quick reels with lots of separate bows and tons of triplets.
I changed up my bowing (more slurs), and replaced many of the triplets with rolls, and my wrist problems went away completely.
But I concur with Iris. This can be serious, and if it's getting worse now, it will likely continue to get worse until you either fix it, or stop playing--and if you don't fix it, you'll end up having to stop playing.
# Posted on April 27th 2007 by Georgi
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Thanks guys! I'll definitely try some of these!
(yeah Georgi, reels are mostly what give me problems too)
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by possumawesome
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Ben.... hmmm....wonder if they will think we all have Tourettes! Anyway, just tried the shakeout.... very relaxing! Thanks, great idea. I am loose as a goose when I play... my hands and arms anyway, but where I really get pain, and others may get this too on guitar, zouk, etc. is the leaning on the right leg if a righty player, and the fact that my right arm is lifted up to shoulder level to get over the guitar body.
I think the net effect of 44 years of playing is that my whole right side is shot, stretched out on the ribcage muscles..... neck to toe, totally whacked out and I have had much pain from it and I now suspect it may be at the root of migraines, which seem to start in my neck, right side. So I recently got a classical player's footstool, it's $10 and adjustable. It keeps your body upright, and my right leg is raised enough that I can angle the guitar down my lap a little, thus lowering shoulder, which many call "guitar shoulder", a sort of bursitis I think.
I also use mainly my ergonomic guitar these days with the slope under the right arm and soft rounded edges instead of bindings, so there is no pinch to that area.
Did you know also that some guitarists who sit have actually given themselves vascular problems and blood clots in the thigh/leg the guitar rests on. I got major bad sciatica on the right leg too, which is mainly gone due to evening yoga targeting that area. And the footstool keeps pressure off the leg, the leg has the guitar on top, chair on bottom, you leaning down on it, a big sandwhich....you can see how it constricts nerves and bloodflow. I have told some young players to be really careful now, and they look at me like a crazy old lady!
Never mind other intrument ailments, Violin Hickeys, collarbone aches. Concertina fingers all cramped. We pay for the music!
Anyway since starting the acupuncture, I may get a little tingle in right hand overnight, but totally zero pain or tingles all day. Amazing! And the hand and wrist exercises in the book. The body can repair itself pretty quickly sometimes if you change a few things.
# Posted on April 28th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
After years of fluting, kayaking, and cutting stained glass, my carpal tunnel was no longer to be ignored. The doctor said it was in "early stages of nerve death"- pretty severe.
Had the operation a few weeks ago. Two weeks later it was healed, and I am now back to playing my Olwell as if it never happened. Even with the cut ligament, I don't detect much if any loss of strength.
So, take the "six weeks/six months" timeframe with a grain of salt.
# Posted on April 30th 2007 by shaskeen
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
Try a shot o' Jameson's. Works for me!
# Posted on April 30th 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Right wrist (fiddle)
thanks benhall! commenting so i can keep tabs on this thread and try it when I'm at home
# Posted on May 1st 2007 by alyssak