On Friday 31 January 2003 at 8.30pm GMT the UK digital TV channel BBC4 is broadcasting another 30 minute programme in its series on the distinctive musical traditions of Northern Ireland. This time it is focusing on the Lambeg drum.
BBC4 is available on Sky channel 161, Freeview channel 10, and cable.
Great!! The last two have been superb, the program after is usually good too. Friday's was the 92 year old, Compay Secundo from the Buena Vista Social Club. Amazing bloke!
I, for one, will definitely be boycotting that programme, as the Lambeg Drum is THE archetypal symbol of Protestant hegemony in the North of Ireland, and all that flows from such British Imperialist symbolism, such as sexism, racism, cubism and post-impressionism.
I hope all members sympathetic to this cause will join me in a vigil, in front of their TV sets for the duration of the programme, watching anything but that programme, as a protest to BBC4, to let them know where we stand (or sit)....
I saw a snippet of "Riverdance" on the tv and was not impressed - can Domhniaill explain why Lambegs were featured if the rest of Ireland finds them so evil?.
I was also at a loss as to why sundry "gospel-type" singers appeared, how the band managed to clap after the music had started and also how the dances managed to bang their tap shoes on the floor whilst they were up in the air. All very odd.
P.S.
I was looking forward to seeing someone dancing in a river but they didn't show that bit.
Emm...Geoff... I was joking.... in case you didn't notice...
If I had the means to view BBC4 I would watch it, and in fact a mate of mine is in the process of videoing the series for me.
Sorry if my sense of humour appears too obtuse for regular consumption, but I had just returned from a Guinness-lubricated sesh when I wrote that!
I always thought that Lambeg's were a part of the whole Orange thing...those bands...along with the controversy that entails? More a history of marching and protest...not session music? My feelings? If I want to see new uses for Lambeg's, I'll catch STOMP or The Blue Man Group.
Having experienced the effects of Bodhrans at sessions I hate to think what may be in store for us if Lambeg players get turned on to the tradition! I think the less said about this topic, the better.
There used to be lots of Orange parades, in the Marching Season, in the part of Glasgow where I was dragged up - nothing to do withour family - we're Trades Unionists, not Unionists!
My mind was boggling whilst contemplating Bannerman's post - the thought of one of those things at a session - BOOM BOOM BOOM!! BOOM BOOM BOOM!! to Eddie Kellys Reel!?!....It would be impossible to get one of them through most pub doors!
Even so, I still wouldn't mind seeing the programme on telly.
Not to deny its role in triumphalism, but if you had ever heard a true traditional Orange fifer playing tunes to the accompaniment of the Lambeg, you might see the music in it. Some of the older fifers despise the rowdy beer-swilling kick-the-Pope bands which dominate the 12th celebrations.
It's understood (at least in many Irish-American circles) that the Lambeg is less of a musical instrument than an instrument of sectarian intimidation (Please, no offence meant to any Lambeg players or Lambeg lovers!). I'm aware that the various Irish-American societies likely have a skewed (Republican) view of things and only wish I could see the program myself to get another point of view. Any well-reasoned thoughts on this notion are welcome and appreciated.
Can I assume then that if I ever make it to your session I will not get to hear your rendition of 'the sash' ? How do those marching guys play flutes with gloves on. Neat trick!
Bouzyboy - you know me too well!
If I were to play 'the Sash' in the Woodman, doctors would afterwards have to invent a new term to describe my resultant condition - something like rectal flutosis, or a proctological woodwind prosthesis.
In other words, the flute would be shoved.....
Much as I despise the triumphalist aspect of Lambeg drumming, I have to admit they sound pretty impressive and take amazing physical effort to play. Many AOH bands use Lambeg drums so they have been "hijacked", for want of a better word! Indeed, there's a drum maker on Sandy Row in Belfast who does a great line in bodhr
I don't know what they're like in Belfast, but I recall the typical Glaswegian follower of the Orange parades ...emm... wouldn't exactly be regarded as an intellectual, shall we say. (I'm not being sectarian, as I'm non-Catholic, for want of a better phrase.) They tended to be very rough, lower lumpenproletariat types, not so much unemployed, as unemployable. (Nor am I a snob as I'm of working class origin.)
Maybe that's the source of my disdain. However, all that said, conan, they are impressively loud!
Domhnaill, I would say the two crowds, in Belfast and Glasgow, definitely share a common ancestor. Maybe I've been slightly misunderstood, I hope the drumming doesn't die out. As for the marching, they can march themselves off Ardglass harbour for all I care, although there is probably some anti-pollution law which forbids that kind of thing. By the way, must try to get down to your session in the Woodman's some day. I normally play in Streatham in the White Lion at that time but the DLR would be handier for getting home.
Conan - yeah... of course, you'd be more than welcome. Although if the flute player at the White Lion is anything to judge you by - Sheena Vallelly - she's very, very good - then you might be a deadly talented box player! I'm pretty handy but not in Sheena's (Premiere) league. Our fiddle player - Steve Mulhern - now he's good. Just put out a CD. Nice stuff.
So you'll get a good welcome, there'll be fast, and slow, and interesting tunes, and you'll get a couple of pints and some craic.
But please - don't bring your Lambeg with you!
Cheers Domhnaill! I'm not a deadly talented box player by any means but I seriously enjoy playing. Have to agree with you about Sheena - she's a lovely player and great craic! I'd love to hear you folks playing some time, and I promise not to bring a Lambeg. Unfortunately, I also play the bodhr
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003 - The programme as seen
For the interest of those who, for whatever reason, did not see the "Lambeg Drum" on BBC4, January 31, 2003, here is a brief summary of the programme that I have made, and the impressions I got from it. Those who do not wish to read it may look away now ...
A Lambeg drum maker said that the Lambeg drum is the most difficult drum in the world to master. It is a two-sided drum, and as a dancer taps out the rhythm with the feet, so a drummer does it with both hands. The drum maker illustrated this with some intricate cross-rhythms with his hands. When struck, a good Lambeg drum will generate a relatively high-pitched note, and intense playing will generate an internal sound that has been compared to a swarm of bees. A Lambeg drum is loud and can put out as much as 120dB of sound - equivalent to an aircraft engine. It is very definitely for the outdoors, quite apart from the logisitics of getting such a large instrument through a pub doorway!
There are many different rhythms and styles of drumming in Northern Ireland Rhythms come from tunes such as "The Beggarman", and there were brief illustrations of styles from Belfast, Co Down and Armagh. The Lambeg drum is considered by some to be the "heartbeat" of Ulster.
People think that Lambeg drums only come out on the 12th July and 15th August, but in fact drumming is a round the year activity, and there are quite a number of Lambeg drum clubs in Northern Ireland, on both sides of the politico-religious divide. They are so popular with the members that there now exists the species known as "drum widows". The clubs organise competitions on almost a weekly basis, not just to see who is the best drummer but also to see who has the best drum.
A drum-maker was shown making a drum. The skins are usually chosen from a she-goat, being the most suitable. Drum shells are frequently painted in a very ornate style. One drum shown on the programme has a portrait of General Sam Houston, of Alamo fame, whose ancestors came from Northern Ireland The Orange Order may have decorations appropriate to their political beliefs, and the Hibernians may liekwise have decorations with a Catholic religious emphasis or showing episodes or people from deep in Irish history. It seems there is occasional collaboration and cooperation between Orange and Hibernian drummers.
There was an interview with a fife-maker. Fifes are traditionally made from boxwood, but the material is not now so easy to get, so other woods may have to be used. A good fife does not need excessive blowing to produce a good sound.
In drum-fife bands, the drummer drums to the tune of the fife - the fife does not play to the drum. Consequently, a good Lambeg drummer will take the trouble to learn the tunes as much as the fifer does. This is exactly what a good bodhran player does. Fife and Lambeg drum is not now very common, but the bands that still exist are maintaining part of the old musical culture of Ireland.
The fife and drum were introduced into Ireland in the early 1700's from Europe, where they had been in military use for hundreds of years. The first drums in Ireland were small affairs, but were gradually enlarged over the years to the huge instruments of today.
The speaker referred to a very old manuscript of fife tunes, a few pages of which were shown on screen. The tunes came from all over the British Isles. Some tune titles I was able to identify were,
The Sailors Hornpipe
The Hangman Hornpipe
The London Hornpipe
Boyne Water
Strawberry Blossom
One Bottle More
Bony Part's Retreat
Glasgow Heart
Meguire's Hornpipe
Paddy O'Connell
Banks of Kellswater
Speed the Plogh
Keady Hill
The Irish Wash Woman
Young Men in Full Bloom
The programme concluded with a Lambeg drum competition in a local town. The making of a drum for these competitions is not an individual activity but very much an organised team effort. There is now great emphasis in these competitions on the quality of the sound produced by the drum, with unfortunately much less regard for the inherent musicality of the instrument, which apparently now tends to remain the preserve of the few fife and drums bands still around.
The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
On Friday 31 January 2003 at 8.30pm GMT the UK digital TV channel BBC4 is broadcasting another 30 minute programme in its series on the distinctive musical traditions of Northern Ireland. This time it is focusing on the Lambeg drum.
BBC4 is available on Sky channel 161, Freeview channel 10, and cable.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Great!! The last two have been superb, the program after is usually good too. Friday's was the 92 year old, Compay Secundo from the Buena Vista Social Club. Amazing bloke!
Dave.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Twiz
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
I, for one, will definitely be boycotting that programme, as the Lambeg Drum is THE archetypal symbol of Protestant hegemony in the North of Ireland, and all that flows from such British Imperialist symbolism, such as sexism, racism, cubism and post-impressionism.
I hope all members sympathetic to this cause will join me in a vigil, in front of their TV sets for the duration of the programme, watching anything but that programme, as a protest to BBC4, to let them know where we stand (or sit)....
Anyway I can't get BBC4.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
You forgot antidisestablishmentarianism.
All the best PP
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
I saw a snippet of "Riverdance" on the tv and was not impressed - can Domhniaill explain why Lambegs were featured if the rest of Ireland finds them so evil?.
I was also at a loss as to why sundry "gospel-type" singers appeared, how the band managed to clap after the music had started and also how the dances managed to bang their tap shoes on the floor whilst they were up in the air. All very odd.
P.S.
I was looking forward to seeing someone dancing in a river but they didn't show that bit.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Emm...Geoff... I was joking.... in case you didn't notice...
If I had the means to view BBC4 I would watch it, and in fact a mate of mine is in the process of videoing the series for me.
Sorry if my sense of humour appears too obtuse for regular consumption, but I had just returned from a Guinness-lubricated sesh when I wrote that!
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
.....but I agree with you in general about Riverdance, although I was impressed by Mick Flatley's flute playing.
# Posted on January 26th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
woss all them long words meen anyway
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Good old Domhniaill, you fooled me - see you outside church on Saturday night.
# Posted on January 27th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
I always thought that Lambeg's were a part of the whole Orange thing...those bands...along with the controversy that entails? More a history of marching and protest...not session music? My feelings? If I want to see new uses for Lambeg's, I'll catch STOMP or The Blue Man Group.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Katie - We kind of covered some of this on previous string (bongos in sessions): http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1108
Geoff - just cos I play the flute doesn't mean I'm a member of the local Lodge!
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Having experienced the effects of Bodhrans at sessions I hate to think what may be in store for us if Lambeg players get turned on to the tradition! I think the less said about this topic, the better.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Bannerman
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Effects or deffects?
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by glauber
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
There used to be lots of Orange parades, in the Marching Season, in the part of Glasgow where I was dragged up - nothing to do withour family - we're Trades Unionists, not Unionists!
My mind was boggling whilst contemplating Bannerman's post - the thought of one of those things at a session - BOOM BOOM BOOM!! BOOM BOOM BOOM!! to Eddie Kellys Reel!?!....It would be impossible to get one of them through most pub doors!
Even so, I still wouldn't mind seeing the programme on telly.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
I think most sessions could do without the Lambeg, a.k.a. The Ballymena Bodhr
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by murfbox
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
precisely my point, Murfbox, thanks for clarifying that!
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Not to deny its role in triumphalism, but if you had ever heard a true traditional Orange fifer playing tunes to the accompaniment of the Lambeg, you might see the music in it. Some of the older fifers despise the rowdy beer-swilling kick-the-Pope bands which dominate the 12th celebrations.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by LongNote
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
It's understood (at least in many Irish-American circles) that the Lambeg is less of a musical instrument than an instrument of sectarian intimidation (Please, no offence meant to any Lambeg players or Lambeg lovers!). I'm aware that the various Irish-American societies likely have a skewed (Republican) view of things and only wish I could see the program myself to get another point of view. Any well-reasoned thoughts on this notion are welcome and appreciated.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
And I always thought that Catholics play bodhran in sessions to get back at the drummers who disturb their mass.
# Posted on January 28th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Hey Domhniaill (irish for 'dances with flutes'?),
Can I assume then that if I ever make it to your session I will not get to hear your rendition of 'the sash' ? How do those marching guys play flutes with gloves on. Neat trick!
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by bouzyboy
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Bouzyboy - you know me too well!
If I were to play 'the Sash' in the Woodman, doctors would afterwards have to invent a new term to describe my resultant condition - something like rectal flutosis, or a proctological woodwind prosthesis.
In other words, the flute would be shoved.....
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Rudall the time
Rectal flutosis
Hehehe! Man i can think of so many jokes, but none that i can post in a family-friendly Web site.
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by glauber
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
If one of those things is called a 'LamBEG', then just how big is a Lam MOR??
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Don't even go there Glauber - you'd be written off the script!
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Much as I despise the triumphalist aspect of Lambeg drumming, I have to admit they sound pretty impressive and take amazing physical effort to play. Many AOH bands use Lambeg drums so they have been "hijacked", for want of a better word! Indeed, there's a drum maker on Sandy Row in Belfast who does a great line in bodhr
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
I don't know what they're like in Belfast, but I recall the typical Glaswegian follower of the Orange parades ...emm... wouldn't exactly be regarded as an intellectual, shall we say. (I'm not being sectarian, as I'm non-Catholic, for want of a better phrase.) They tended to be very rough, lower lumpenproletariat types, not so much unemployed, as unemployable. (Nor am I a snob as I'm of working class origin.)
Maybe that's the source of my disdain. However, all that said, conan, they are impressively loud!
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Domhnaill, I would say the two crowds, in Belfast and Glasgow, definitely share a common ancestor. Maybe I've been slightly misunderstood, I hope the drumming doesn't die out. As for the marching, they can march themselves off Ardglass harbour for all I care, although there is probably some anti-pollution law which forbids that kind of thing. By the way, must try to get down to your session in the Woodman's some day. I normally play in Streatham in the White Lion at that time but the DLR would be handier for getting home.
All the best
Con
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Conan - yeah... of course, you'd be more than welcome. Although if the flute player at the White Lion is anything to judge you by - Sheena Vallelly - she's very, very good - then you might be a deadly talented box player! I'm pretty handy but not in Sheena's (Premiere) league. Our fiddle player - Steve Mulhern - now he's good. Just put out a CD. Nice stuff.
So you'll get a good welcome, there'll be fast, and slow, and interesting tunes, and you'll get a couple of pints and some craic.
But please - don't bring your Lambeg with you!
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Cheers Domhnaill! I'm not a deadly talented box player by any means but I seriously enjoy playing. Have to agree with you about Sheena - she's a lovely player and great craic! I'd love to hear you folks playing some time, and I promise not to bring a Lambeg. Unfortunately, I also play the bodhr
# Posted on January 29th 2003 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
BTW, The Lambeg Drum is the last in the current BBC4 series on the music of Northern Ireland.
# Posted on January 30th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
went out with a bang then did it?
# Posted on January 30th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Taxi for Mac Aoidh!
# Posted on January 30th 2003 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
The cab won't take me & the drum.....
# Posted on January 31st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Mac Aoidh
You or the drum could go on the roof of the cab ...
# Posted on January 31st 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
....that cabbie must be a Don't-be-Vague....I'm walkin'! See ye's next week....
# Posted on January 31st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
It would do nicely for a spare wheel.
# Posted on February 1st 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
David - are you joking? Have you seen the size of one of those things?
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Spare wheel for a tractor, I think David means.
# Posted on February 2nd 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003 - The programme as seen
For the interest of those who, for whatever reason, did not see the "Lambeg Drum" on BBC4, January 31, 2003, here is a brief summary of the programme that I have made, and the impressions I got from it. Those who do not wish to read it may look away now ...
A Lambeg drum maker said that the Lambeg drum is the most difficult drum in the world to master. It is a two-sided drum, and as a dancer taps out the rhythm with the feet, so a drummer does it with both hands. The drum maker illustrated this with some intricate cross-rhythms with his hands. When struck, a good Lambeg drum will generate a relatively high-pitched note, and intense playing will generate an internal sound that has been compared to a swarm of bees. A Lambeg drum is loud and can put out as much as 120dB of sound - equivalent to an aircraft engine. It is very definitely for the outdoors, quite apart from the logisitics of getting such a large instrument through a pub doorway!
There are many different rhythms and styles of drumming in Northern Ireland Rhythms come from tunes such as "The Beggarman", and there were brief illustrations of styles from Belfast, Co Down and Armagh. The Lambeg drum is considered by some to be the "heartbeat" of Ulster.
People think that Lambeg drums only come out on the 12th July and 15th August, but in fact drumming is a round the year activity, and there are quite a number of Lambeg drum clubs in Northern Ireland, on both sides of the politico-religious divide. They are so popular with the members that there now exists the species known as "drum widows". The clubs organise competitions on almost a weekly basis, not just to see who is the best drummer but also to see who has the best drum.
A drum-maker was shown making a drum. The skins are usually chosen from a she-goat, being the most suitable. Drum shells are frequently painted in a very ornate style. One drum shown on the programme has a portrait of General Sam Houston, of Alamo fame, whose ancestors came from Northern Ireland The Orange Order may have decorations appropriate to their political beliefs, and the Hibernians may liekwise have decorations with a Catholic religious emphasis or showing episodes or people from deep in Irish history. It seems there is occasional collaboration and cooperation between Orange and Hibernian drummers.
There was an interview with a fife-maker. Fifes are traditionally made from boxwood, but the material is not now so easy to get, so other woods may have to be used. A good fife does not need excessive blowing to produce a good sound.
In drum-fife bands, the drummer drums to the tune of the fife - the fife does not play to the drum. Consequently, a good Lambeg drummer will take the trouble to learn the tunes as much as the fifer does. This is exactly what a good bodhran player does. Fife and Lambeg drum is not now very common, but the bands that still exist are maintaining part of the old musical culture of Ireland.
The fife and drum were introduced into Ireland in the early 1700's from Europe, where they had been in military use for hundreds of years. The first drums in Ireland were small affairs, but were gradually enlarged over the years to the huge instruments of today.
The speaker referred to a very old manuscript of fife tunes, a few pages of which were shown on screen. The tunes came from all over the British Isles. Some tune titles I was able to identify were,
The Sailors Hornpipe
The Hangman Hornpipe
The London Hornpipe
Boyne Water
Strawberry Blossom
One Bottle More
Bony Part's Retreat
Glasgow Heart
Meguire's Hornpipe
Paddy O'Connell
Banks of Kellswater
Speed the Plogh
Keady Hill
The Irish Wash Woman
Young Men in Full Bloom
The programme concluded with a Lambeg drum competition in a local town. The making of a drum for these competitions is not an individual activity but very much an organised team effort. There is now great emphasis in these competitions on the quality of the sound produced by the drum, with unfortunately much less regard for the inherent musicality of the instrument, which apparently now tends to remain the preserve of the few fife and drums bands still around.
# Posted on February 3rd 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
"The skins are usually chosen from a she-goat..."
Must be a huge Wooly Mammoth mutant she-goat...those drums are massive!
# Posted on February 3rd 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: The Lambeg Drum - BBC4 TV Jan 31, 2003
Yes, the thought did occur to me, but that was what was said and shown on the programme!
# Posted on February 3rd 2003 by Trevor Jennings