I belive that missing recording opportunities is a point, but was'nt there legendary irish fiddlers before Coleman? In other traditions like scottish and scandinavian music you have a bunch of fiddle legends from the late 1700's and early 1800's, like Neil Gow in Scotland and Torgerir Augundson (Myllarguten) in Norway.
Was'nt the fiddle that common in Ireland in this time? Can someone mention important musicians in Ireland before Coleman both on fiddle and other instruments. (Except Turlogh O'Carolan)? I belive that there is no recordings available of these master, or did some of them survive into the 1900's and have available recordigs?
Lots of great and known players predate Coleman. Look to tune names for clues. Fiddlers Simon and Mickey Doherty in the north, piper Dinny Delaney from Co. Galway, fiddle and squeeze box player Padraig O'Keefe, fiddler Cal O'Callaghan, John McGinley, fiddler Master Crowley, etc.
Lack of recording technology made a huge difference, as did waves of Irish emmigration.
Oops, sorry. Missed the “fiddler” aspect, just thought about some “big names”. Touhey the piper and Rory the harpist. Hill was Scottish/Tyneside but certainly an influence on ITM. Hmm. And it says so clearly in the title "Irish fiddlers".
John McFadden, O'Neill's contemporary and tune source, made a few cylinder recordings. He'd be about a generation prior to Coleman.
Both Harry Bradshaw and Reg Hall write about the older fiddlers in Coleman/Morrison's part of the country, Bradshaw in the 1891-145 Coleman cd's booklet and Hall in the Michael Gorman "Sligo Champion" booklet. Of course it is a generation that was recorded compared to earlier ones that weren't.
McFadden was a decent (if maybe not a great) player although arguably a contemporary of Coleman. From the circle around Capt O Neill Edward Cronin is probably more interesting. O'Neill's cylinder recordings, long thought perished in a fire, were recently re-discovered. Edward Cronin is certainly one of the most exciting players to emerge from that batch so far. A missing link for certain.
I included players of other instruments in my response because musicians listen to them, too. Michael Coleman himself no doubt learned tunes and a lot about the music from his father, James, who was a highly respected flute player.
I happen to know, through some exhaustive researching, that pre-Coleman fiddlers sounded exactly like a mix between Sean Smith and Cathal Hayden, so we're not doing too bad considering the damage that Sligo eeeegit done.
One would even say that the tradition of playing quadrilles, mazurkas, 3/2 hornpipes, highlands, germans, etc was destroyed by the advent of the cursed Sligo reel.
Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
I saw through this list of important irish fiddlers and saw that it was not mentioned a single player born before 1880-90, why is this. http://www.irishfiddle.com/index_of_fiddlers.html
I belive that missing recording opportunities is a point, but was'nt there legendary irish fiddlers before Coleman? In other traditions like scottish and scandinavian music you have a bunch of fiddle legends from the late 1700's and early 1800's, like Neil Gow in Scotland and Torgerir Augundson (Myllarguten) in Norway.
Was'nt the fiddle that common in Ireland in this time? Can someone mention important musicians in Ireland before Coleman both on fiddle and other instruments. (Except Turlogh O'Carolan)? I belive that there is no recordings available of these master, or did some of them survive into the 1900's and have available recordigs?
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by TradLad
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Lots of great and known players predate Coleman. Look to tune names for clues. Fiddlers Simon and Mickey Doherty in the north, piper Dinny Delaney from Co. Galway, fiddle and squeeze box player Padraig O'Keefe, fiddler Cal O'Callaghan, John McGinley, fiddler Master Crowley, etc.
Lack of recording technology made a huge difference, as did waves of Irish emmigration.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Mind, this is just scratching the surface.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Interesting question. Here are a few pre-Coleman names that come to mind. Hopefully the more informed will correct/round out this short list.
Patsy Touhy (1865-1923)
Philip O'Beirne
P.J. McDermott
John O'Dowd
Rory dall O'Cahan
James Hill – maybe not strictly Irish
Here’s a link to some more stuff (near bottom of page)
http://pybertra.club.fr/ceol/tunes.htm
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Hardly all fiddlers above there and James is strictly not Irish at all at all.
Maybe first read Francis O'Neill's Irish Minstrels and musicians and then re-phrase the question.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Hardly all fiddlers above there and James is strictly not Irish at all at all.
Maybe first read Francis O'Neill's Irish Minstrels and musicians and then re-phrase the question.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Oops, sorry. Missed the “fiddler” aspect, just thought about some “big names”. Touhey the piper and Rory the harpist. Hill was Scottish/Tyneside but certainly an influence on ITM. Hmm. And it says so clearly in the title "Irish fiddlers".
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
John McFadden, O'Neill's contemporary and tune source, made a few cylinder recordings. He'd be about a generation prior to Coleman.
Both Harry Bradshaw and Reg Hall write about the older fiddlers in Coleman/Morrison's part of the country, Bradshaw in the 1891-145 Coleman cd's booklet and Hall in the Michael Gorman "Sligo Champion" booklet. Of course it is a generation that was recorded compared to earlier ones that weren't.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by edl
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
McFadden was a decent (if maybe not a great) player although arguably a contemporary of Coleman. From the circle around Capt O Neill Edward Cronin is probably more interesting. O'Neill's cylinder recordings, long thought perished in a fire, were recently re-discovered. Edward Cronin is certainly one of the most exciting players to emerge from that batch so far. A missing link for certain.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
I included players of other instruments in my response because musicians listen to them, too. Michael Coleman himself no doubt learned tunes and a lot about the music from his father, James, who was a highly respected flute player.
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Jamsey Gannon who taught Coleman as far as I know...
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by ceoltoir2010
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
Now I won't be able to sleep kilfarboy...
# Posted on March 29th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
I happen to know, through some exhaustive researching, that pre-Coleman fiddlers sounded exactly like a mix between Sean Smith and Cathal Hayden, so we're not doing too bad considering the damage that Sligo eeeegit done.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on March 30th 2007 by Harry B
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
LOL, too true, Harry!
# Posted on March 30th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Irish fiddlers before Coleman.
One would even say that the tradition of playing quadrilles, mazurkas, 3/2 hornpipes, highlands, germans, etc was destroyed by the advent of the cursed Sligo reel.
Tommy
# Posted on March 30th 2007 by tompipes